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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • roadrunner70roadrunner70 Member Posts: 241
    I JUST VISITED THE GM CARD WEB SITE, AND IT SAYS THAT MAX FOR ENVOY IS $1,500.00. IF YOU WERE ABLE TO USE MORE, AS MANY HAVE BEEN, HOW?

    ANYONE WHO HAS BEEN ABLE TO PURCHASE AN ENVOY OR TB AT A FEW HUNDRED DOLLARS OVER INVOICE, HAS ANYONE BEEN ABLE TO MAKE SUCH A DEAL IN FLORIDA?

    LOCAL GMC DEALER SAYS WAIT, INCENTIVES PROBABLY ARE COMING SOON.

    THANKS FOR ANY ADVICE.
  • fdogsfdogs Member Posts: 9
    I test drove the Bravada and Envoy last night. Upon climbing into the back seat, my wife noticed (on both vehicles) a large black curved bracket projecting into the seating area. It is located right at the 60/40 split point and is used as the pivot point to fold one of the seats flat. Has anyone else noticed this? Did this dealer just forget to install some type of boot to hide it? Also noticed a gap in between the seats in the same area that was large enough for a softball to fall through to the rear cargo area. Anybody else seen this?
  • lspanglerlspangler Member Posts: 102
    They must have suckered you into getting the "NEW" GM card. On the new one there are limits on how much you can use per vehicle where there wasn'ton the old card. I just gave my sister over $2,000 to use on a cavalier from my card and the fealer said if I had switched to the new card I would have only been allowed $1500 also.
  • jhtjht Member Posts: 24
    If you have the older "classic" GM Card, you can accumulate up to either $3500 or $2500 (depending on what year you got the card - mine is the $2500 version) in GM points, at a maximum of $500/year. That balance can be used towards any GM car, with no restrictions that I've heard of.

    There are two catches - one is that if you carry balances, the interest rate is darn near usurious, and the other catch is that if you don't already have that card, you never will - GM no longer offers that program, but existing cardholders get to stay in it.

    The new GM cards (which I believe are about a year old), have no limit on total earnings (or annual earnings), slightly better interest rates (at least, it did when they offered to switch me), and more things besides GM cars to use the points on. The catch with the new card is that you have to accept GM's limits on how many points you can use on a particular model. The really big discounts are reserved for the cars that nobody wants, and they adjust the card rebates based on supply and demand throughout the model year.

    As for my Bravada, I got it at $300 over invoice here in Massachusetts just before the recall. I used Carpoint to get a couple of local dealers to bid on it.
  • monomoymonomoy Member Posts: 2
    I think there's an even greater difference between the old and the 'new-and-improved' cards. Until about three years ago, the maximum GM points/dollars allowed per year was $1000. When they reduced this to $500 it was not retroactive.

    I've been using a card for nearly seven years now--it will start 'losing' at the front end in a month or two--and my balance is close to $6K. Which, when added to an invoice-plus deal at the friendly neighborhood TB or Envoy dealer, should result in a surprising out the door price. Question is, should I wait to see if they add rebates??

    And a question: Anyone have any info on carrying kayaks on either of these trucks? Are Thule rooftop carriers adaptable to the factory-installed rack?
  • lgspencelgspence Member Posts: 15
    I took delivery of My Envoy on Monday and paid Invoice. Another local dealer would only go $600-800 over invoice. Shop around.
  • tjay1911tjay1911 Member Posts: 10
    Does anyone have any information about the availability of the oak interior on the Envoy? I've called GM (1-888-988-7267) the rep. stated that there was no info. indicating that it was not available.
  • aleasealease Member Posts: 22
    Yes, I have ordered an Envoy April 25, they will not give me a straight answer on the eel. date, ax just keeps telling me yours is on its way, he told my husband Monday you should have it this week. I have called GMC again and they state that my order wasn't even been approved yet. I don't understand what is so hard. The only thing I wanted that wasn't available was a sunroof, I didn't think they were so unpopular.
    Good Luck, I hope you do get yours this week
  • saejosaejo Member Posts: 2
    Has anyone found nerf bars for the Trailblazer? I have looked around but I haven't found any.

    Thanks for your help
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    If you lease your car(s) the "New" card is great. I just got the card after using Citibank's Drivers Advantage card for a few years. They have a cap also at $500/yr but you can redeem it on ANY vehicle purchase. Anyway, I lease two GM cars every three years. I charge anywhere from 48k to 55k per year and don't ever carry a balance over from month to month. Last month I leased a Cadillac Seville STS and a 2002 Bravada. If I had been using the "New" card all along I could have redeemed $5,000.00 worth of points ($3,500 for the Seville, $1,500 for the Bravada) Instead I am only getting back $1,500 from the Citibank card.

    Lastly, Why would you use ANY of these cards and carry a balance? You end up paying much more in interest than you earn. Charge less and pay the card off each month and put what you would have paid in interest in a separate account - you'll end up with more in the end.
  • svmansvman Member Posts: 25
    Is there really a height difference between the Bravada and Envoy? The Olds brochure says 74.5" to top of roof rack and Envoy's brochure says 71.9" to same. Why would there be this difference? I've only got so much room in my garage, one will fit, one won't. Thanks.
  • monomoymonomoy Member Posts: 2
    Re my post #1089, the $6K 'balance' refers to available GM dollars toward the purchase/lease of a TB/Envoy or any of their cars other than Saturns--not an unpaid card balance accruing interest.

    Unless GM has a major surprise for me, it's my understanding that this amount is going to be deducted from a final price. Anyone have any positive/negative experiences in redeeming large amounts? Am I correct in assuming that I don't introduce this part of the deal until we've agreed on a price?
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    I used $1500 of rebate money on my Bravada, $1500 of loyalty money so $3000 total, and I bought it at slightly over invoice, 32350. I have the new GM card, and for years (8) had the old card where you could accrue $500 per year up to $3500 max. You could then use the $3500 on any car, great deal, did it once, and then I switched.

    They both have there advantages. The advantage to the new card is that you can accumulate money much faster with no limits on accumulation, but you are limited on how much you can cash in on the vehicle model. The new card allowed me to use $1500 on a 2000 Tahoe, within 6 months I had accrued $1500 more for my Aurora (old card would only allowed $500), within 6 months after that I had accrued $1500 for the Bravada (sold the Tahoe)

    So in one year I saved $3000 versus the max of $500 on the old. But it really depends on how many and how often you turn over vehicles. The bravada is still great.1400 miles.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    With the slight possibility of incentives looming on the TB in the near future, I have a question. Does anyone out there know if rebates/incentives offered by GM can be used in combination with a GMO price? And...what if the rebate is offered after the vehicle is ordered but before the vehicle is taken for delivery?
  • racoonlodgeracoonlodge Member Posts: 34
    Been looking at the Envoys and TB since they first landed on the dealers lots. This forum is great simply cause we're all in the same boat, share our expirerences, and will learn more about these SUV's than dealers. My question is, does anyone know when the sandalwood exterior color going to be available?. I called the Chevy number and was told "Chevrolet Motor Division reserves the right to make these changes and unfortunately, we are unable to supply
    the features or colors specified, once such changes have been instituted".
    Man I thought I was talking to a dealer! Anyway, The GMC Envoy states Mid 2001 for the color. Anyone hear about the TB? Thanks
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I used $2000 in GM points last year to buy my Intrigue. The points were deducted from the total amount including tax and freight. I added $1000 cash for a total down of about $3K . It all went like clockwork. The GM card in Canada can be used for Saturn/Saab and Isuzu also.

    See lots of ads popping up for Envoys in the local paper. Still nothing on the 02 Bravadas.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    My experience with my lease this evening of an Envoy is that the GM Card dollars are treated like cash. It makes no difference to the dealer. There is no need to withold the existence of the credit.
    As for the Envoy, the ride is incredibly smooth for a large SUV. It actually floats and wanders a little like a Town Car.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    The brochure for the TB shows a 74.5" height to the top of the roof rack, just as the Bravada brochure shows. I did notice the 71.9" "overall height" in the Envoy brochure. I would assume that either the "overall height" in the Envoy brochure does not include the roof rack or a typo. Perhaps one of the kind Envoy owners in this forum will take a meausuring tape out to check on the height of their Envoy.
  • fletch45fletch45 Member Posts: 72
    Check this link regarding the Sandalwood color and other delays. It says 7/1/01 for the Bravada, which would apply to the other two sisters too.


    Note the 16-18 week lead time.

    jim f


    http://www.arifleet.com/production.html#gmtrucks

  • rthammerrthammer Member Posts: 8
    Can anyone out there tell me what the GVWR is on the TB and Envoy? Also, what is this rating based on?

    Thanks

    Ron H
  • mfullmermfullmer Member Posts: 773
    I figured that from your post. I was just talking in general regarding the topic of interest rates.
  • bharlinbharlin Member Posts: 5
    Will somebody please explain gmo pricing to me?

    Bill
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    GMO and GMS pricing is only available to GM employees and family members. Most consumers, like yourself, wouldn't normally ever hear of GMO and GMS pricing since it's not advertised. My father worked for a GM company, so I can get the discount.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Post #1083 stated that the rear window "exploded" on his vehicle.

    Could that person please elaborate on this?
  • bharlinbharlin Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for information.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Depends a little bit on the model. If you go to new cars and drill down to the model you are interested in (2x, 4x, etc.) and then click on "Specifications", we usually have a listing for Weight.

    A better way perhaps is to do a Vehicle Comparison of all the models you are interested in--the weight specs are listed in there too, and you can look at them "side-by-side".

    Steve
    Host
    Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    The Bravada was parked in a wide open parking lot on a very windy day, up to 45 mph winds. And it appears the window popped. Vandalism was a consideration but things did not add up. I took it to the dealer and they told me they had 6 aleros in with the same problem in 1/2 of a year. It is almost like the winds created a vacuum in the auto. Happened to my fathers 1998 bravada also.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    Was it the rear tailgate window?
    Or one of the fixed windows in the rear area?

    ...this is very strange and potentially dangerous. Let's say you're cruising down the road at 70 MPH and the rear window explodes...
    Sounds like a potential lawsuit to me.
  • doc35doc35 Member Posts: 23
    Before we all get excited...It is not "unusual" for lack of a better word for rear windows, or windows in general to "blow" out with rapid climatic changes. One day I was working in downtown Seattle, when I was in college, at a bank. There was a rapid change of temperature that day, in association with the humidity and winds and all of a sudden one of the HUGE front floor to ceiling double paned glass panels exploded, covering people on the sidewalk with shards of glass and scaring the hell out of everyone in the bank. At the same time within a 7 block radius, 4 police cars rear windows blew out and a whole bunch of others too. The police cars I knew about because the bike patrol cops who responded to our "shot out" window according to the 911 call told us that several of the cops thought they were being shot at. Amazing, eh?

    Anyway (and it is anyway, NOT anywayS, just so you know since we are all concerned about proper use of the english language), the point is that it could have been a freak thing, possibly coupled with stress on the window if one of the latches was tighter or something. Let's not all call the lawyers just yet, ok?>.... ;)

    Kirk
  • doc35doc35 Member Posts: 23
    Now on to what I really want to ask about today. For those with Envoys, especially...I noticed today that the panel fit where the front quarter panels fit the A-pillars seems to vary quite a bit on the 4 models I saw today on the dealer lot. The 5 Trailblazers I looked at today, I didn't notice anything but that was before I noticed on the Envoy. Any comments as to fender alignment and fit? Thanks.

    Kirk
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    With that many windows "exploding" in a short period of time in a small radius...well, sounds like aliens are behind it to me.

    The only time I've seen a glass spontaneous explode is when I moved a glass pan from the oven to the sink and immersed it in water...which was a dumb thing to do. But that was a 350 degree change in a matter of seconds.

    Anyway...sounds really squirrelly.
  • hambone7hambone7 Member Posts: 130
    There have been numerous posts on this board regarding panel fit inconsistencies. Go back a few weeks here...
  • 65panhead65panhead Member Posts: 3
    Drove 2002 Bravado on 4-2-01, very impressed with new ride&handling, back to dealer on 4-6-01 for purchase and was told no sale until control arm bracket replaced.. Was called by dealer on May 8 and was told ITS' FIXED, one more test drive to be sure,about 5 i. from dealer I looked in rear view and could see nothing but smoke, then the interior began to fill with smoke I pulled off road got wife away from the bravado opened the hood and saw fire near back of engine, Ran to closest house and called fire kept. and dealer.. It seems the tarns line has a new clip instead of bolt probably to save money.. Anyway it came off and all trans fluid spilled onto converter,damage to firewall and some wiring.. We rode back with the salesman and the 2002 bravada on a rollback.Once at the dealership we got in our 96 bravada and went home,arrived safe and no decisions as of yet..
  • fabinakfabinak Member Posts: 6
    I have been test driving the LTZ TB. There are many positives with these vehicles but that's not what most of us are interested in as critical buyers. I do appreciate the comments I have read on this board. I noticed quite a bit of front end wandering from side to side on the TB. It actually feels like the old tire play evident on the first radial tires of the 70's. I believe that I could become accustomed to it. The 17' tires fill the wheel wells much better than the 16" wheels do. It is a shame that you can't order the 17" wheels on the LT. GM's exterior paint colors are weak on this model. OnStar seems like it is useless and annoying. I wish GM had reverse sensing like the Ford Explorer or instead of the turn signal indicators under the mirrors, GM provided something useful like nightime boarding lamps. The rear tailgate window sets to high and makes loading even small items awkward. Now that I ripped it up I probably buy one this weekend.
  • fabinakfabinak Member Posts: 6
    The Trailblazer comes standard with 3.42 rear axle ratio. Do you guys think it is necessary to order the 3.73 rear axle for towing? The Envoy is standard with 4.10's. You sacrifice gas mileage for the higher gears. I'm thinking that with the extra Horsepower that you might get away with the standard gears and save the MPG. Any comments?
  • nargnarg Member Posts: 112
    Car and Driver had an story this month on the Highlander, TB/Envoy, and 2002 Explorer. Highlander won this showdown. Not sure why, because 1. it's not the same type of vehicle, 2. didn't match up to the options/power/ride of the Envoy. The GM product came in a close 2nd. Though, it should have been compared to the 4 runner instead. The 2002 explorer took last place due to a lot of rattling during test driving. hehe. Also, did you all hear about this 2002 explorer recall for exploding back windows? interesting.

    The Envoy I tested was the cat's meow! Very impressive with many more features for the same price (or lower if you can get invoice price) than the Highlander I drove. The highlanders appear to be selling at MSRP, period. Both were stickered around 34K, but the Highlander was 2wd, the Envoy 4wd. The Highlander felt nice and tight and had good power, but nothing compared to the Envoy power. And the Envoy seemed to have a much much better turning radius, not sure what the real numbers are. Envoy won my test hands down. I don't wish to test a 2002 Explorer, I can do without the rattles. I love reading Car and Driver, but sometimes they are a little out to lunch on their reasoning.

    BTW, I did notice the rear door seal hanging out of the bottom of the Envoy door while driving out of the dealer lot. Made me laugh to read the comments earlier on this subject.

    Anyway, it appears a 2003 Envoy will by my wife's next car. I bought a new Silverado last year so It's her turn for the new one, else I'd buy it for myself. She loved the Envoy as much as I did. Neither of us like the On Star !*$!#!, and found it amazing you can't get a top of the line without leather. Not that leather's bad, we just don't prefer it. It get's too hot where we live to put up with burning your legs every time you get into the vehicle.
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Member Posts: 28
    It was the tailgate window. But I did not in any way mean it as a criticism. We both love our Bravada now with 1500 miles on it. It was just a question, no one was hurt. Metal, paint and glass are always replaceable, and the service was impeccable, so lwayers are out of the question. Things happen, people are not replaceable, everything else is.
  • billsoterbillsoter Member Posts: 49
    Does anyone know if and where a cargo mat or tray for the new Bravada can be found?
    Are the Envoy, TB, Bravada cargo areas all the same dimensions?
  • fievelfievel Member Posts: 16
    I test drove an Envoy last Saturday and generally I was very impressed, and the fit and finish of the vehicle seemed quite good and the engine felt really strong. One problem for me was the position of the seat belt. It is attached to the seat, and seems a bit low and uncomfortable. I am not tall, so I would imagine that tall folks would really have a problem with this seatbelt arrangement. Has anyone noticed this, or is is something I would just have to get used to? All in all, the new Envoy is miles ahead of my 1988 Jimmy that I been driving for the past 10 years. I'm trying to decide between the Envoy and Grand Cherokee V8 as I am going to tow a 3,600 lb. 20-foot camping trailer.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    Picked up my Envoy Thursday night and we love it. This morning the Bravada salesman called and I told him we got the Envoy. He said that today, GM came out with new lease incentives on these SUV's with higher residuals. My Envoy dealer said it's bull and that there is nothing new in the past week. Anyone hear anything?
  • lyndellwlyndellw Member Posts: 31
    Envoy vs JGC. During the recall period I had a JGC rental for awhile. I was very disappointed in it. I could not make the front seat adjust for comfort, had no passing ability, and it wandered a lot on the road. As for the front seatbelt design on the Envoy, I am 6' 2" have no problem with them.I do find the drivers side a little awkward to reach when you get in the vehicle. Air suspension is recommended for towing. I have it,but don't plan on any towing.
  • jeff237jeff237 Member Posts: 38
    Bill,

    I felt the same way about the seat belt. But it is something that I have gotten comfortable with.

    Now that the recall is over and I have had a chance to get comfortable, here are my thoughts about my Envoy.

    This SUV is nice. Other than some minor exterior fit and finish problems, I have enjoyed the SUV very much. It rides nice, looks great, 16 mpg city. I still feel it is way ahead of any other SUV in its class.
  • zeenzeen Member Posts: 401
    I'm more impressed with the Envoy each time I drive it. I do find the seatbelt a little awkward but I think it's because my prior car, a 98 Bravada, had the belt mounted on the pillar. I'm reaching higher but I will get used to it.
    The suspension is superb. Not mushy but it handles the bumps beautifully. Those 17" wheels help. Fit and finish is good. The door gaps are a little wide but they are uniform and I cannot insert my finger. The engine is smooth as silk. A/C is excellent, radio (the basic CD version) sounds great with strong bass. The only minor negative is that I notice the steering is not precise. The vehicle wanders a little. Nothing serious though.
  • suv18suv18 Member Posts: 11
    You mentioned that the suspension is superb on your Envoy. I would like to know if you have the optional rear air suspension, and if you do, do you notice any excessive body roll? Thanks.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    If it were me I would split the difference, and go with the 3.73. I don't think you will lose to much highway mileage with itand it will help your off the line response.

    Remember these are DOHC motors and they usually don't have great low end power, so a little gear will probably help things.

    If you are getting 2wd you will get better gas mileage anyway.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Sounds like you had a exciting test drive.I guess that will be the next recall and all of the triplets will be taken off the road for a month.LOL.
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    Looks like once we got our trucks back, every one went on his/her Merry way. Also, looks like we are still here some where lurking in the back with our eyes wide open.
    Now that I have 850 mile on my Bravada, I can say that this car amazes me every time I drive it, it always impresses the heck out of me - I just love it.

    Few remarks on the car:
    - Fit & finish: believe it or not, PERFECT
    - Body roll: none, I have the air suspension
    - Noise: none outside or inside, no wind noise even though the rack arm is up front, the air compressor works for less than a second and the hiss is not noticeable
    - Rear tailgate window out side handle: is not glued, there are 2 screws so will not come off, may be the Bravada is different than the envoy
    - Seat belts: what seat belts! just kidding, I have not noticed any thing about them, I am 5.11

    Overall, it is a fine car.
    The biggest negative about the Bravada is the cup holders, they suck big time, can't hold any thing secure and I hate there placement head of and back of the shift arm, same for the rear seat holders, located all the way down!

    I just hope that it stays this way and that no more problems.

    -Alan
  • alanialani Member Posts: 39
    I did not get mine yet, should we get that contract from GM or the dealer.
    All I got was the letter from GM and that was a bout a week before I got my car back.

    -Alan
  • fievelfievel Member Posts: 16
    I'm going to go back for another test drive and give the seat belt a second chance. You guys may be right, it's something I will get used to. This time I'll take my wife...I know for her it will come down to seat comfort and ride. I think the Envoy ride was a little better than the JGC, but for me, the JGC limited with leather seat was just as comfortable. The Envoy interior is every bit as attractive as the JGC, and seemed a little more spacious. Those Jeep dealers are practically giving them away now with all the incentives, but with the Envoy I can use my GM card earnings.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    There was a 02 Envoy in the parking lot of the grocery store today. This is only the second one I've seen on the road. It was getting a lot of looks and I over heard one guy say that it was beautiful. I think GMC will sell a lot of these trucks!
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