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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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  • The wife and I looked at the new Trailblazer and Envoy on Friday. She absolutely loved the Envoy.

    My question is about towing and gas silage. The LT with the ERAS only comes with the 4.10 rear end. How much does this effect the gas mileage when not towing.

    I can get the standard suspension with a 3.73 rear end that should be sufficient to tow my 3,000 lb boat trailer but no ECAS.

    Anyone have experience with towing or the mileage with the 4.10 rear end?

    Thanks,
    keith
  • immoeimmoe Posts: 15
    Has anyone seen or driven an Envoy SLT with the $1500 Off-Road and towing package? Also has anyone seen a green vehicle? A dealer here in RI has over twenty Envoys but none of the above.
  • rjvicarsrjvicars Posts: 12
    Can anyone describe, in detail, the retrofit that will be made to the 6,000 vehicles? Also, can anyone speculate as to what this will do to depreciation, resale, and incentives for new purchase?
  • My husband took me to look at the Trailblazer LTZ, then we went and looked a white Envoy SLT with the top premium package, 4.10 gears, automatic load leveler, BOSE Stereo, heated seats, everything but the sunroof. After test driving the Envoy SLT, it went home with me. In the 4 days and 164 miles that I had it, it handled great. I didn't get to tow our trailers before they took it back. I wanted to break in the engine first.

    I didn't get the off-road package which was the less expensive package, because I didn't want the off-road tires, they can be noisier on the highway.

    With the premium package load leveler you also get an air compresser built in. I had this in my Pontiac STE, and it was great. You can fill bike tires, trailer tires, etc. If you go to the river to tube, you don't need to fill the tubes up first, you can do it right there.

    I can't wait to get it back, but I think that GM is doing the right thing by correcting the problem. I just hope that if they are going to give incentives on future ones, they give it to us for patiently waiting while they correct the problem.
  • hambone7hambone7 Posts: 130
    Sunroof/OnStar/TrailBlazer LS model

    Messages have been posted earlier on this topic, but there was never any closure on the issue. Here's the story: For some reason, GM has decided that if you want a sunroof on an LS model then you must purchase the OnStar option (which is standard only on the LT and LTZ models. I had a salesman calling me to find out "when I was ready to buy", so I posed the sunroof/OnStar question to him. Well, he stopped calling me as expected. I don't want to spend an additional $985 for OnStar just for the priviledge of being able to order a sunroof. Is this just a sales ploy from GM to sell more OnStar?
  • rpageaurpageau Posts: 94
    Since the recall, a few have asked about getting their money back. Check the link below. It indicates cars have been bought back by GM, as well as dealers.


    http://www.autonews.com/html/main/stories/fordgm417.htm


    I called the dealer today about the repair procedure. He said he did not know the specifics, but no welding would be required, which was my biggest concern. If true, I am far less concerned about the repair. It would seem the dealer ought to be competent enough to remove and replace a whole assembly that is bolted together. I can't even imagine GM would send out parts they weren't certain would do the job, especially after volunteering the recall in the first place.

  • akajoeakajoe Posts: 69
    Welding would not have been an acceptable repair procedure because it would have introduced validation challenges and work that the factory cannot control. They would not have been able to "prove" that such a fracture would "never" occur again with any kind of credibility. Therefore, a procedure requiring welding would have resulted in cars being taken back to a certified GM facility for rework - not something that their budget ($15M) for the recall could have accomplished. They would also have had to increase their product liability insurance on those vehicles reworked - which would have probably written off any profits on those vehicles for GM.

    As for the repair itself, most dealers employ GM and ASE certified mechanics who are probably much better qualified and skilled at such dissassembly and reassembly work than the assembly people on the production line who assembled the thing in the first place. The recall procedure will have been worked out many times by the engineers at GM before they initiate the procedure at the dealers. This is to make sure that it is straightforward and not "risky" and can be easily inspected to ensure proper execution.

    On the face of it, it looks like a very involved procedure to replace the lower control arm. It is more complex for AWD models, with drive shafts. For all vehicles, it looks like brake assemblies, steering arms, brake discs, steering knuckles, axel bearings, coil springs, fron shocks, upper control arm connections, and finally lower control arm connections and mount points on the frame all need to be dissasembled and then put back again. And this needs to be done on both sides. It will probably take 8 or more hours of labor. Say it takes 10 hours, at 65/hour, that's $650 per car, plus car rentals. It will probably get over the $1000 estimated by GM per car for the recall.

    I hope there aren't any parts left after they are done, and the mechanic isn't standing there holding them and scratching his head.

    If there was welding taking place, I would seriously consider pushing for GM to repurchase, even if I planned to purchase a later build one. They can go and sell it as used to somebody who doesn't care.
  • lyndellwlyndellw Posts: 31
    Recall:Causing Customer Additional Problems
    Here in my town there were two vehicles recalled, my Envoy and a Bravada. I refused to leave my Envoy set outside at the dealers. Keeping it in my garage till the parts come in. The Bravada was parked outside and received extensive hail damage.Dealer says not there responsibility. I have a brand new SUV from Enterprise Rental Car,it got extensive hail damage. The manager says my insurance has to fix it. I was not offered optional insurance when I received the SUV. GM said if I had the optional ins they would have included it in the rental charge. Looks like I'm the loser.
  • debbin67debbin67 Posts: 35
    I sure am glad I am not alone in this fiasco. I too have (or think I have) a 2002 Envoy. My question to all of you owners is what kind of car have you been compensated with. My family is now driving a 4 door Ford Focus, roll up windows, I didn't even think that was possible, and manual locks! Doesn't seem right to be making a 500/mo payment on this tin can!
  • richardc4richardc4 Posts: 33
    On March 14, 2001 I bought a 2002 GMC Envoy in Phoenix, AZ. On April 5, 2001 my Envoy was recalled where I live in Tucson and taken to the nearest dealersip. It was literally taken from me. A better word would be to say that it was stolen by the factory that built it. I was given absolutely no information about what the trouble is or when I might even think about having my SUV returned. It's impounded in a locked yard baking in the hot Southern Arizona sun. It's sat through a rainstorm and a hailstorm. The temprature here is now in the 90's and in a few days could well be in the 100's. After numerous phone calls and also getting in the face of the people who have my car I learned the following: The dealer (whom I didn't buy my SUV from) has absolutely no information about what's actually wrong or when I might even expect to even think about having my vehicle returned. I was also told that GM is calling all the shots in this. When I called 1 (866) 226-6622 I was told that under certain circumstances certain 2002's might experience a failure of the lower front control arm. When I asked what certain circumstances and what certain vehicle, I was not given an answer. In short, we who have put down our hard earned money for Trailblazers, Bravadas and Envoys have for all practical purposes given GM a blank check to do as they damn well please with our vehicles. This matter is being handled very poorly. Through the years I've owned a total of 9 GM vehicles. Chevrolet, Pontiac, Buick and now GMC. If I have to wait a month or even another week for my new car that's being virtually destroyed by this recall, GM can rest assured that there will not be a 10'th. Ford is just across the street from where my car is being held against my will. My last car was a Ford and my next car will be bought there. They at least try to cooperate with their customers and keep them informed. General motors with it's Gestapo (for lack of a better word) tactics will NEVER get my busiess again, and never is a very long time. And the dealership that has my vehicle will never get it's hands on it again once it's returned. In addition, I might add that I'm a retired professional driver of nearly 50 years. I've had virtually everything that happen to a vehicle go wrong and like to think that I have some idea what I'm doing when behind the wheel. Some appear to feel that GM is looking out for us. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It's CYA time in Detroit and all GM is doing is covering it's own hindside. Things that are mechanical break. A vehicle of any kind is mechanical. Parts on it will break, sometimes with no warning. That's a fact of life so those who approve of what General Motors is doing in this matter should get a horse and find a place to buy hay.

    Dick
  • richardc4richardc4 Posts: 33
    I could have written a lot more but you no doubt wouldn't have printed it because to say it was X rated would be an understatement. I'm not just angry about what's being done I'm just plain madder than hell! And if you like, you can print this.

    Dick
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    richardc4 : While it's hard having your new truck impounded, would you rather risk an accident/ injury by continuing to drive it?? While your dealership should have provided more information to you, I fail to understand the purpose of your rant. Were you not given a replacement vehicle?

    Fact of the matter is, GM is looking out for your safety. If you don't understand that then there is nothing I more can say.
  • rjvicarsrjvicars Posts: 12
    GM ultimately did right by me regarding my 2002 Envoy, although I did have to apply some pressure.

    I had my Envoy for less than two weeks before it was impounded for the safety defect. I loved it!!!

    I had the SLT with towing. I have recently driven the new Explorer and a new Durango. The Envoy clearly outclasses these vehicles in virtually all categories. Where it does fall critically short is exterior and interior fit and finish. The door panel gaps were large and uneven, all the way around. My other cars are German, which I know is an unfair comparison, but the fit and finish on these several year old cars is perfect. The steel used on the front fenders is frighteningly thin. Wrap your knuckles on it and you will see what I mean. DO NOT lean on them, they are that weakly supported. Maybe this will be improved over time.

    I will be watching to see how the "improved design" for the control arm is incorporated. I will also wait a year to look at Envoy's again. Though I am more inclined to put in my order for any Acura MDX or the like. GM, more than most automakers, in my experience, needs to wring the bugs out for a year when a new model is introduced.

    Again, GM ultimately satisfied me as a customer...albeit, some pressure was necessary.
  • jbossertjbossert Posts: 38
    Debbin67 - GM instructed all dealers to make arrangements for you to get a "comparable" vehicle. You shouldn't have to rant and rave, but I did and got a 2001 Tahoe. You should raise the roof!!!!
  • califjohncalifjohn Posts: 101
    Does anyone know if heated seats are available on the high end option packages with the Trailblazer, Envoy, or Bravado? What about navigation systems?
  • jhtjht Posts: 24
    I don't know about the other two, but my Bravada came with heated seats. It's usually available when you get leather as an option, so assuming you got the TrailBlazer or Envoy with leather, you should also be able to get heated seats.

    None of them include navigation systems, though. The ones with OnStar all have GPS systems built in - if you were so motivated you could probably hack the antenna into connecting to a Garmin StreetPilot or something comparable, then hardwire the Garmin to the car's electrical system. I do that for the radar detector any time I buy a car.

    Of course, I haven't had my Bravada in-hand long enough to do that to mine yet...
  • question for anyone on the 2002 tb
    do the rear passenger windows go all the way down?
    does the sunroof close when you shut off the ignition?
    How many watts and speakers does the preium sound system have?
    thx anyone
  • akajoeakajoe Posts: 69
    Debbin67, after much complaining to GM about non-cooperation by my dealer, I got them to approve a Jeep Grand Cherokee through Enterprise. GM actually lists Enterprise as a rental agency that most dealers work with, though the one I went to claimed the did not work with Enterprise. I found that some other branches of that dealer (notably the Ford dealer) worked directly with Enterprise for their loaners. When I told GM customer service, they leaned on the dealer and got it all approved. The Jeep was brand new, with less than 50 miles on it - clean as a whistle. Not some 2 year old filthy car they wanted to give me originally.
  • rpageaurpageau Posts: 94
    It's a shame some dealers are treating people so badly (at least based on some of the stories I have been reading here). At my dealership they sent me straight to the showroom, and asked me what I wanted to drive. When I told them I wanted the candy apple red Corvette on the showroom floor, the truck mgr. almost had a heart attack. They politely told me that was the only car off limits, so I had to settle for a 2001 Tahoe with 4 miles on it. It now has twice as many miles on it as my Trailblazer had when it was confiscated.

    p.s. They were arranging rentals for people who bought their vehicles elsewhere.
  • ducatist4ducatist4 Posts: 28
    It is sad to hear the stories of poor treatment. We got a rental from National enterprise, and choose a minivan initally. It was okay, but when I told our dealer we didn't like it all that much, they gave us a fully loaded silhouette with 4 miles on it. Can't wait to get the Bravada back.
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