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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • tbcreativetbcreative Posts: 357
    Man, reading all these posts has just cinched it for me! The next generation 4Runner coming this fall is looking better all the time...

  • sicksofarsicksofar Posts: 4
    Hi ajmrn30,

    I've noticed the clicking seat also. I figure it's the material, leather in my case, that puckers down underneath the plastic shroud for the seat controls as I lean over to get out. When I move off the seat, the material pops out, snapping the plastic.

    It's a theory. I'm going to try applying clear shipping tape or something to both the seat and the shroud, hoping to force the two different materials to slide past each other when I get out.

    I just know that as the plastic ages, either through work failure or crystallization from the heat, it's going to break.

    Good luck.
  • tbcreative: bet EVERYTHING they say on the 4runner discussion forum is perfect, no problems, electrical or non. Maybe we ALL should turn in our vehicles and run over to That manufacturer, Since there are no problems. Sounds like the boy that cried wolf....See ya there!
  • jwinkyjwinky Posts: 59
    I may be off-base here, but tbcreative has said the same thing twice in the past few days. He may be a troll looking to start a "discussion". I wanted to respond the first time but chose not to, because it would have added nothing to this forum.

    It may just be best to ignore him.

    Tbcreative, I am not trying to start anything, but we heard you the first time. I hope that you are happy with your decision and that your 4runner is flawless. I am sure you would hope that for all of us triplet owners.

  • ajsimonajsimon Posts: 1
    Occasionally on first startup of the day, any season, the truck engine roars, and it will not shift from 1st gear. Drive for five minutes and
    the engine roar stops and the transmission shifts, with no further problem.

    Dealer is unable to replicate.
    Anyone know what this is about?
  • ajmrn30ajmrn30 Posts: 7

    Please let me know how your "fix" goes. The click is definitely something that I can live with, I just want to know that I am not damaging anything in the meantime.

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    How chilly was the weather? I know on the Subaru ATs, it is stated in the manuals that it will not shift to 4th gear (overdrive) if the transmission temp is below 35 degrees, so on cold mornings it may take 5 minutes or more to warm up. Perhaps the TB has a similar system?

  • calucykcalucyk Posts: 35
    I wouldn't trade my Bravada in for nothing! I have a friend that bought a 02 4Runner. It's been to the shop for several issues. His main gripe is how under powered the 4Runner is. I believe it has a whole 181 HP. He's been talking about installing a TRD super charger.
  • tbcreativetbcreative Posts: 357
    I guess you guys didn't read my posts very well. I DON'T CURRENTLY own a 4Runner because when I ordered my '98 GMC Jimmy back in the fall of '97, I thought there were too many things the 4Runner lacked, like power and comfort.

    I'm talking about the ALL-NEW 4Runner coming this fall that's based on the same new platform as the GX 470. It's going to be VERY DIFFERENT, and make up for and surpass everything the '02 lacks. I don't even know if I'm going to buy one yet as I haven't even seen a picture of one, because Toyota is being so secretive, and I really won't know until I've been able to drive one.

    I've been frustrated and disappointed with GM for not offering some version of the Trailblazer or Envoy for those of us who actually go off-roading on rough stuff. So I came to this forum to see what people were saying about them, or to see if anyone was talking about putting an inexpensive lift on their truck. Then I read about all the problems with the electrical systems, which my dad and uncle have experienced with their Envoy and Trailblazer. For those reasons, combined with my experience with being a GM owner since I got my driver's license 18 years ago, and the problems I've had with my Jimmy, I've decided to look elsewhere.

    Racoonlodge, I'm not sure what you mean by "cry wolf," because that would imply I'm teasing about something, so that makes no sense. If you mean I'm giving up the good fight before the battle is won, then you'd be right. I've been a GM loyalist and owner, scoffing at foreign cars for as long as I can remember, so I think I've earned that right. But the older I get, the less I want to deal with service on my automobile. And while they still have problems, there's a good reason Toyota is still #1 in quality. I've had it with my GMC, so I've decided to keep an open mind for my next SUV.

    Jwinky, I only came to this forum to see if there was anything here to change my mind about the Trailblazer/Envoy. I wasn't "trolling." When I read all the stuff here, it gave me more reason to shy away from the GMT 360s, which has been a struggle for me because I do think they're really great-looking SUVs.

    I'm sorry I used this platform to vent, but I was also hoping someone would challenge me enough to reconsider the TB or Envoy. I didn't want to make people defensive or ignore me, I wanted to be challenged in an intelligent discussion. I didn't plan on attacking anyone, because I'm a GM guy myself, not some jerk looking for a foreign vs. domestic debate. If these trucks aren't worth a decent discussion, and people are using poor grammar like "I wouldn't trade my Bravada in for NOTHING," then I should look elsewhere.

    Sorry for the disruption. I sincerely hope you enjoy your trucks, and they give you little or no problems.
  • cmack4cmack4 Posts: 302
    No need to apologize... I think people were just afraid that you were another of the many "Brand Zealots"! You're right, the TB, Envoy, and Bravada will never be considered serious off-road vehicles.... at least not without serious modifications. That being said, I don't think that segment was their target audience anyway. I too love my Bravada, and wouldn't trade it in for anything. Well, I might consider for a new Landcruiser... but at $20K less, I don't think anyone's going to jump at that! Both the Sequoia and LC are overpriced when you price them decked with the same options as the triplets. To date, the 4runner has never felt plush enough for me... even the limited. We'll see, things could change in 2003.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    I'm not offended by your comments. That's what is great about America, we can all think and say what we want. I have had my Envoy for 11 months and 14,000 miles. It has had a few of the minor issues, but nothing major. I love it and would buy it again in a heartbeat. Beware of jumping off the Toyota cliff. They are not always as great as many people think. I have a good friend who can hardly wait to dump her 2001 Sequoia. What a lemon. She has had nothing but problems. Another challenge with the '03 4 Runner will be getting any dealer to negotiate or even not add a bunch of dealer pads to jack up the price. I will never pay MSRP or above for a vehicle. But, if you have the $ and don't mind being raped, then it is your business. As I said earlier, I love my Envoy and would recommend it to anyone. At any rate, I hope you love your new Toyota and that you don't have any problems with it. I hope you are as satisfied with it as I have been with my Envoy.
  • tbcreativetbcreative Posts: 357
    Thanks, guys! That's all I was looking for; a little interaction. I really appreciate your input, and I'm going to do a lot more research after reading what you said about your friend with the Sequoia, hardhawk. I'm far from making up my mind on my next SUV, and have never paid over dealer invoice, so I'm in no hurry to buy anything in September when the '03 4Runner hits the dealerships. I'll probably wait until after the first of the year, not only for the kinks in the new platform to show up for recalls and such, but that's when Toyota will add the new V6 to the line-up, as they're only offering the new V8 when the 4Runner launches this fall.

    I want to be sure to test drive both before I make a decision. With the V8 rated at 235hp and 320 lbs/ft of torque, but the new V6 making 245hp and 283 lbs/ft, it will be interesting to see how each drives. I will be holding both engines up to the standards set by the awesome Vortec in-line 6 in the GMT 360s, of course. If they don't compare to GM, then forget Toyota altogether!
  • jwinkyjwinky Posts: 59

    Welcome to the fan roar club! I believe what you are describing is the jet engine a lot of us have experienced. For a lot of us, it is very sporadic and I can see no other way except sheer luck that the dealer would be able to duplicate. Depending on the build date of your your TB, there is a TSB for the reprogram of some of the software to reduce this problem. My Envoy was built in April of 02 and I have this happen about every two weeks. A nuisance, yes, but I can live with it for now. Check Tim Lauro's website for the TSB (


    I wasn't sure why you were here, and I may have been a bit harsh with the 'troll' comment. Please accept my apology. I absolutely LOVE my Envoy. As you can see, it is a fairly recent build, and I have only had the fan engagement on startup. A nuisance, but I can live with it for now. I have faith in GM to fix it (did I just doom myself and everyone else with that comment?). Other than that, the vehicle has been a gem.

    I had a 98 Honda Civic Coupe and an 86 Toyota Corolla, that was handed down to me by my mom, before the Envoy. The Toyota was bullet proof. It had 180k miles when I get rid of her, with the only problems being the tape player no longer worked and I believe a crack in the distributor housing (never verified, but the symptoms led me to that). Comparing quality between my old Civic and my Envoy, they are about the same. I think that says a lot about GM.

    One other thing to watch for with Toyota is a sludge problem. I have seen a discussion on TH about this but did not investigate. Not sure if it is a real problem, but may be worth looking into.

    Unfortunately, a lot of times these forums, like many other things in life, only relay the bad, when there may be many times more good stories that go untold.

    Hope this has helped, and again, I apologize for my earlier post. I look forward to any input you may have, and that you get a problem-free vehicle, whatever you decide to buy.

  • bobed2121bobed2121 Posts: 70
    I'll wait for the new 03 abusive intruder model ###. Mr becreative you can wait all you want. I used to believe that but your exuberance will last all of about 1 year. I used to think I'll just wait for the newest model to hit the floor. Yes I paid dearly for the latest and greatest sportbike to come out, but low and behold those brainy little japanese engineers steped it up a notch not 10 months later. Funny thing had I "waited" just 10 months I could have gotten second best for $K less.
    Live and learn
  • tbcreativetbcreative Posts: 357
    No need to apologize, jwinky. I've seen the "trolling" type on other boards and all they are is destructive to what should be a constructive discussion. I admit my original postings looked that way on the surface.

    Thanks for the heads-up on the sludge thing. That's something I've been reading about on numerous Toyota forums, and seems to be something Toyota is addressing and concerned about with their new models coming out. Supposedly they have a handle on it and it won't be a factor with the 2 new engines for the 4Runner, but you can bet I'll be watching that issue very closely.

    I'm glad you like your Envoy and that the quality has measured up to your past experiences with Toyota and Honda. That's encouraging to hear! My dad sure loves his SLT. Whenever I see a black Envoy with custom wheels and tires, gleaming in the Arizona sun at my GMC dealer, the thought runs through my mind that maybe I should give up all the crazy off-roading and get that beautiful truck. Then I glance over at my black Jimmy with the off-road package and 30"x9.50" BFG All-Terrains, and I'm back to my same conundrum...(Big sigh)

    Mr. Carter, thanks for your insight, but if you read my rather lengthy posts about the next generation 4Runner, you'll see it's well worth the wait, and will be around in that form for at least 6 years after it comes out. Of course there will be improvements along the way, but the difference between the current model and the '03 coming in September is so HUGE, that changes during the next year or so won't be as significant. I'll just be happy to have an option with everything I'm looking for.

    Beside, I'm not ready to buy a new SUV until after the first of the year anyway. Who knows, I may wait until the following fall if I'm not satisfied, which is when I may have even more choices, like the re-designed Pathfinder. I appreciate your concern, but I know all about jumping too soon. Computers are a great example of that. I do extensive research before I make any major purchases, and find out as much inside scoop as I can about what the future holds, and I'm confident I'll make the right choice with my next SUV.
  • I asked if anyone has had a rattle in the front end and did not get any responce.Post #6200.The dealer says this is a common problem and GM has not figured out a fix. It's suppose to be in the steering column but i have read 6600 posts and not seen the problem once. Could the dealer be giving me a line of bull ? Should I ask to have a GM service rep. to look into it?
  • hmaximohmaximo Posts: 22
    Does GM have an official fix for the mirror wind noise yet?
  • tlaurotlauro Posts: 504
    I read that noise is caused by the viscuous fan clutch, the oil that couples the fan to the hub settles when parked and the fan engages for the first few minutes of operation until it disengages.

    This poster said his'95 truck does the same thing.

    Anyone care to confirm?
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Hey Gang,

    I "kind of" made an amazing discovery this past week about the triplets that I wanted to share with you.

    This past Friday, I helped envoy2002's mother with the purchase of her new 2002 Oldsmobile Bravada. While on a test drive with the vehicle that she wanted to purchase, I noticed that when I placed the vehicle into reverse, the DIC displayed "Curbside Assist Mirrors Engaged." Well, of course that freaked me out because mine is a 2002 GMC Envoy and doesn't display that in the DIC screen when in reverse?? Also, I noticed that the build date stamped on her Bravada was 5/02. I touched base with several other triplet owners and they also stated that their triplets display "Curbside Assist Mirrors Engaged" as well. Additionally, they too have build dates of 4/02 & 5/02??

    Does anyone have any idea on when this modification was added to the DIC? Actually, I find it quite impressive myself and would like to get ahold of the programming bulletin number so that I can have my local dealer program mine to display this as well. I would think that in order to gain this function, they would simply have to erase the current program in memory and replace it with the new one correct? Similar to how they are currently handling other programming items.

    Anyone have any additional information that they would like to share concerning this? Of course a service program or calibration code would be wonderful!

  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237

    You mentioned in your post # 6272 that there was a TSB out that addressed the "Rear End Chatter" problem on the triplets? Would you be so kind as to mention where you found this TSB or possibly e-mail a copy to me? I am experiencing the same issue with my 2002 GMC Envoy SLT & would like to have the appropriate TSB in hand when I do decide to take it in for service.

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