Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

macman246

I'm new to the board here, but have been reading your messages for several months now, and drooling over the Envoy for that long too. I test drove one a few months ago and loved it.

Now that I'm ready to buy, I got a quote from the local dealer for $500 over invoice for a Envoy SLT 4WD. After looking at the prices on this website and kbb.com, it turns out that their invoice is $700 more, so it's really $1200 over invoice. I called another dealer 90 miles from here, got a quote for $500 over invoice from the Costco contact (but Envoy's don't have Costco pricing yet), looked up all the prices, and it turns out it is indeed $500 over what edmunds and kbb says is invoice. My instinct is to go shopping 90 miles from here. Is it common for dealers to jack up their "invoice" price?

My "good" quote was $34,407 for an Envoy SLT 4WD with sunroof, 1SH prof towing, locking rear diff, CD, and Bose audio. Does this sound like a good deal?

mfullmer

Dealers are notorious for quoting their customers an "Invoice" price that is not really it. I was surprised on my recent purchase because the salesman was aghast that I would want to see the invoice that he quoted me. After crossing my arms in defiance, he sheepishly brought me out a copy of the invoice that was exact, to the penny, what I knew it was. Of course, he had just "made a mistake and read it wrong" - AS IF!!!

If you have a Palm Pilot or Handspring you can download the exact same thing from Edmunds into it and take it with you. Show him what you have and demand to see their invoice. If they won't show it to you (and they quote a different price) then walk away.

hvan3

I think the dealer is giving you a lot of BS because they didn't think you will buy the car. Thus, they rather "hassle" you from test driving the vehicle.

If I were you, I would complain to GM. It's totally poor business practice.

acl1966

Concerning the rear seat audio option on the triplets, I understand it comes with the headphone jacks. Do the headphones also come with it or do we have to purchase our own? I have ordered an Envoy SLT which includes this feature on the back of the front console but I did not read anywhere if the headphones are also included. How does the stereo sound? My truck also will have the Bose system. Also, have not heard any updates from childs57 on the DVD player. My truck was built on Aug. 24, should get it by Sept. 8th.

imototo

I think netsolstice was just having fun....those improbable "what if I did this to fox them" day dreams we all have with an increasingly bureaucratic world. But mfullmer is right on the money and not just about this. Read the small print and DO NOT sign anything, anywhere if you are unsure of something.

Lately, I'm also making everybody I deal with make me a copy of anything I sign...no matter how trivial it seems. At the time. Surprisingly, I've had a few organizations/banks/etc. balk. I ask for the original back and rip it up and walk out. It's such a little thing; just make me a copy. Who would have thunk? And makes you wonder.

I also agree that this dealership should be brought to GM's attention. Something doesn't seem right here. You might also want to bring this dealership to the state attorney general's office. Dealers ALL have dealers' plates for test drives and for any other times the car has to be off the lot. Something smells.....

Mendorf asked about the option differences btw. the triplets. For me, I found I came out better, price wise, with going with the Bravada than trying to add options that I wanted/didn't want with the TB and Envoy. But, as someone mentioned in a previous post, I guess it also depends on what part of the country you live in.

Don't know if I mentioned before that after getting the Bravada--and the reason for getting a new car---I had to sell my other Olds. 1985 Cutlass Salon (t-top., regular engine) with body damage to rgt. rear. (Dumb girl hit me in 9-2000 with not another car on the street as I was making a left into the cul-de-sac where I live). I was told it would cost approx. $3,000 to fix. Hated losing that car---a lot of memories of my Mom and 2 dogs that are no longer here. I couldn't see my way clear to putting $3,000 into a 16 year old car. But still, was very angry with the ***** that smacked me as I had planned on driving that car for another 5 years at least.

Anyway, I asked $1250 and was told by some people that I was dreaming what with the body damage. First guys that came out bought it for price asked and with the body damage. I received over 14 calls in the first week. Interesting, no?

childs57

Sorry acl1966, but have not fired up DVD system yet. As this thing has so many bells and whistles, I've slowly but surely been reading up on it in owner's manual. Still need to put in the demo DVD that came with the Bravada. We are going to take a short roadtrip over the holiday weekend, and will play with DVD system then.

As far as headphones, the system comes with two wireless infared headphones (batteries included), as well as a handheld remote control.

mfullmer

The headphones do not come with the vehicle without the DVD. I doubt that will be a problem though since mostly this will be used by teenagers and I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a teenager out there without at least one pair of headphones. The jacks are standard "walkman headphones" type.

I personally have not used the ones in my Bravada as I have no kids and don't even own a pair of headphones.

robz3

I tried out a Bravada and an Envoy, both with leather seats. It seems to me that the seats in the Envoy were more comfortable. Anyone else try both and feel the same?

I like the looks of the Bravada but the comfort issue has me tilted towards the Envoy.

njtblzr

I have a TB LT with option package 1SE. The DIC shows the driver is Driver 1 regardless of which key is used. Is this normal or should one key show as Driver 2?

The only real problem I have had so far is the Service 4WD light came on at about 100 miles. The dealer couldn't find anything wrong and called Chevy who told them it was a lose wire in the 4wd selector. They confirmed the wire was lose and they fixed it. No further problems (700 miles so far)

mgrcm

Hello,my Envoy finally came in yesterday(9 weeks order time).Went to my dealer today to look it over everything seemed to be in order except it hadn't been cleaned up yet.Anyway thinking about putting the molded mud flaps on but noticed the bottom of the fender behind the wheel was already sitting pretty low to the ground.My question to anyone who put them on is how far the flap extends below the fender.Can't be much ground clearance from the ground to the bottom of the flap is there?I'll be picking it up on Friday.

Thanks Rick

jht

It's tied to remotes - not keys. One remote will have a "1" stamped on the back, the other one will have a "2". The keys themselves are interchangable.

bryancos

I just picked up my mud guards from a local GM dealership and installed them yesterday. They fit well and match up to the body nicely. Personally, the white GMC logo should have been omitted, but I'll live with it. The rear guards (they're solid, not floppy like a cheap mudflap) extend approx 4-5" down from the rear, leaving adequate ground clearance... the fronts appear be level with the rear. They look nice. Installation of all four took about 30 mins, and if you have the right tools, you do not have to remove the wheels. This is something that should have came as STANDARD EQUIPMENT tho...

INSTALLATION TIP: For the rear flaps, drill the hole for the upper trim fastener from the rear underside of the vehicle instead of from behind the tire. You will have to line it up, but it saves the time/trouble of removing the rear wheel to drill a simple 1/4" hole.

njtblzr

Thanks for the answer. Actually both remotes show up as Driver 1 in the info center (yes even remote with number 2 on back). I remember it showing up as Driver 2 when I first got the car 2 weeks ago, but since the car went in for service (giving the dealer remote 2) both remotes now show up as driver 1. Any ideas?

bryancos

Test them: Do the mirrors/seats/radio stations differ between which remotes you use? (providing they were programmed differntly for each driver)

chipperrrrr

mgrcm, I recently bought a new TB and installed the factory molded mudflaps. They look very nice but they do extend downward quite a lot. I had the same question as you do regarding ground clearance after mounting. I have 6.5 inchesof ground clearance on the front and 10inches of ground clearance in the rear after mounting the guards. I am a little worried about winter driving in deep snow. I am especially bothered by the fact that the rear mudguards mount to the lip of the fender. This fender is merely plastic. No metal to be found here. Detroit can really disguise plastic these days. The only thing holding the rear flap on is the plastic lip of the rear fender wall and the black plastic fender liner that attaches to the fender. Quite cheap for a 28k suv I think. However, I guess it will never rust though. Maybe the envoy has a difference design which includes some metal for mounting the rears. I had to remove the rear wheels for mounting of my flaps. The front were mounted by turning the wheels outward. I had to run the front tires up on a ramp to give me ground clearance so I could drill the flaps ufor the underneath mounting screw. Don*t overtigten the screws and drill a hole at least 2 sizes smaller than the screws that are included. I agree, the bowtie has no place on the flap but Detroit needs to advertise anyplace they can, at your cost of course. Also, retighten your lugs to 100 ft lbs with a torque wrench. I have found out the hard and expensive way that overtorqued lugs will warp rotors faster than an overblown estimate can be written at your local national chain muffler/brake shop. Have a good day. By the way, has anyone installed a bug deflector on a TB yet. Did it look good after install and was it easy to install? Appreciate any insight.

robz3

How much difference does this make in handling and smoothness in normal driving?

mgrcm

Thanks for the imfo. bryancos and chiperrr.I got my salesman to sell me the flaps at cost and mount them at no charge for labor.But after seeing how low to the ground the bottom of the fenders were now I'm a little concerned about having them installed.The snow can get a little deep around here and they may hang a bit to close to the ground and may be a problem especially when the slush freezes on them.I guess I,ll have to sleep on this one.

Rick

hardhawk

The new Car & Driver has an official GM photo of the extended length Envoy XL. Check it out.

jam1000

Not surprisingly, GM wrote back that it was not GM policy but a dealer thing, expressed regret that I had a problem and offered a list of other dealerships in my area. Hopefully, there will also be some behind-the-scenes discipline of the Fitzgerald dealership, though nothing of that sort was stated or implied in the response I received.

bryancos

MacNeil makes a very nice looking deflector for the Envoy. $45 + 12 S&H (w/ 10% discount at Automotive Interiors) Not sure if it fits the TB or not, but you can call them and find out:

Phone: 413-796-3950

http://www.automotiveinteriors.com/bugguard.htm

I'll take a photo and post one so you can get an idea of how it looks...

bryancos

MacNiel does indeed have a deflector for the 2002 TB as well as the Bravada:

http://www.macneilauto.com

TrailBlazer: Part No: 50077 $54.95 $12.00 S&H
Envoy: Part No: 50079
Bravada: Part No: 50078
Installation required NO DRILLING, only a screwdriver. They give you plastic plugs for the factory square holes under the hood, along with screws rubber washers. Side sections had 3M tape.
I'm pretty sure Automotive Interiors will sell you one at their price tho.

agenteleven

From chipperrrrr's post above, is it true that the front fenders of the TB are plastic??

Aside from Saturn and Corvette, is this a standard practice for GM?

Should we worry about paint fade on the plastic parts or has auto paint technology advanced past that?

chipperrrrr

agenteleven, the rear bumpers are the wrap-around plastic type, not the front. You can mount mud flaps to the front on a metal surface. As to paint wear, I am not concerned about it. I believe GM probably does it to keep down the cost in a rear end 5mph or so snaffuu. I would imagine that replacing the wrap around plastic piece would be much cheaper than replacing an older type traditional full metal bumper. I also believe that if you keep your vehicle for 10 years of so that the old problem of rear wheel well rust will be eliminated. However, call me old fashion - I still would like a full metal rear bumper if I had my drothers. I would imagine that Gm saves a lot of money by designing the system this way. I live in a heavily industrialized part of the country where steel used to be king. I repeat used to be until manufacturers started to use plastics instead of good old steel. Oh well, such is progress.

fletch45

I got a deflector from the Chevy dealer. $54.00 shipped to my door. No drilling, and all you need is a phillips screwdriver. It is low profile and I think it looks pretty good.
jim f

agenteleven

AHH! Thanks, chipperrrr.. I hastily read your post and missed that you were talking of the rear installation! I feel better now.

jbossert

Folks - I'm looking for some ideas on how to "dress up" my TB. It is a Pewter LT. I want to add a little "flash", without making it look gaudy.

Some things that come to mind are...aftermarket 17" rims, medium tinted driver & passenger windows, chrome tubular running boards...

Any other ideas?

hmsi1

The dealer searched, searched, researched and researched a little more, then finally decided to call GM for help. Apparently the shifting problem was caused by a cam solenoid valve; I'm assuming the tranny also has an internal cam cause the last I heard there have not been any great advancements in the internal combustion engine that would warrant relocating the cam shaft to the tranny. That's about all I know as far as the fix goes.

The original complaint was a transmission fluid leak and engine surging between 1st and 2nd gear shifts; the tranny would initiate the shift, the engine would rev to about 5000 rpm, then the tranny would complete the shift. (Very annoying)

Picked up vehicle after 11 days in service, tranny much better.

agenteleven

What's the black box under the left rear passenger seat of the TB?

jbossert: My wife says the TB's look best with running boards. She prefers the factory kind. 17" wheels would help, too, but nothing too "trendy" if you know what I mean. What about a lift kit? Has anybody lifted their TB?

hmsi1

After refusing to accept my Bravada as is (with a loose front bumper cover) my dealer and GM finally acknowledged a problem. GM says they are currently working on a fix for this problem. Case #: 4974343

GM stated that the cover would not fall off and the fix will eliminate the large gap between the bumper cover and the grill/headlight assemblies as well as correct the problem of driving lights pointing at the ground.

showmethemoney

I read all of the posts on this site and learned a great deal before I bought my new Envoy, but this is my first question for you folks. My dealer gave me a production date of 9/3/01 on my SLT with the 1SH towing pkg (I only ordered it on 8/21/01). He said to add a week or two for assembly and delivery from Moraine to Cincinnati. Then add a couple days for them to clean it up and "install the running boards." I did order the running boards, but I thought they were factory installed. Does anyone know anything about this? I'll ask the dealer, but I've had better success with him when I know something about it beforehand. Thanks.

cgret

Show me the money -- I'm sure the vehicles are shipped without the running boards. When I was shopping I was shown a vehicle being prepped for delivery. The window tag showed running boards but they weren't installed. I was told the boards were installed at the dealership.

suchsimon

Just took delivery of my SLT Envoy w/professional
towing, sunroof, running boards and remote starter. Got the no haggle GMO price along w/extended warranty. So far it's been great, the only downside are those flimsy bumpers. Since I park on the street, I am looking for some safari bars (not grill and Brush guards)for the front. If anyone has any info please post. thanks

robz3

I'm planning on ordering my Envoy with the SLT package. I planned on a Indigo Blue with the Oak interior. Anyone have the Oak leather interior? It's hard to order sight unseen and though I like it, I'm unsure. There isn't any Oak within 110 miles of me.

fletch45

Does anybody know how to remove the Trailblazer headlight assemblies? I found and released the clips, but the trim bar across the center of the grill prevents the assembly from coming out.
Thanks in advance
jim f

fletch45

Answered my own question...you have to remove the grill and trim bar. You need a long screwdriver and some TLC. 11 clips if I counted correctly. Wonder if the Avalanche is the same way?
jim f

ralfo

The black box is the On-Star Unit. It's the celular communication device. I took it out to investigate when I first took the truck home. The car phone antenna hooks to it,

mgrcm

Picked up my Envoy today,the good news is the molded mud flaps look pretty good(50.00 plus tax)and installed them no charge.The bad news,the steering is horrible on this thing.Pretty loose,I find myself almost going off the road while taking a sharp corner at lower speeds.Not used to having to turn the steering wheel that much to make a turn. My Durango was much better in that department.I don't remember it being like that 10 weeks ago when I test drove one.Also I have the same problem as others,when I use my driver one remote to get in the DIC comes up driver two and everything but the driver seat settings go to driver two.I have to hit the driver one button on the arm rest to get my programmed driver one settings to come up.They must have done something because when the salesman came out with the remotes the number two transmitter wouldn't work so the dealership had to program it in.But I did notice it coming up driver one on the DIC before this was done.I didn't notice this till later because I was running late for work.Now if I can only get used to this steering thing I may like it.

Rick

fletch45

Check the air pressure in your tires. When I picked up my TB, all 4 tires had exactly 41#, like someone used a bad air guage. It steered waayyy too light with that much air.

Sounds like they might programmed the lock fobs incorrectly. I have instructions from my dealer telling how to program the fobs (they changed a body control module on my TB, and gave me a copy of the instructions in case #2 fob didn't work when I got home). I just read through them to see if it would help you out. The problem I see is that the instructions just say to program all the fobs at once...no mention of how to differentiate between #1 and #2 when programming. Leads me to believe that there may be different instructions to program fobs that must send diffrent signals (ie., maybe they did it wrong).
Good luck
jim f

njtblzr

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll talk to the dealer about it.

I had the same problem with the air pressure, It was 38# all around.

mgrcm

Thanks for the advice fletch45 I checked the air pressure in the tires seemed normal 32 lbs.I guess the steering ratio must be a lot different than my Durango.I'm going to have to get used to turning the steering wheel more when corning.Why I didn't pick up more on this when I test drove one back in June is beyond me.I'm going to have to bring it back to the dealership to straighten out the key fobs.And no to anyone who might be thinking,I wasn't using the wrong key fob,this was made easy for me because the salesman only gave me one key.I left in a hurry and he forgot to give me my other key.

Rick

beach15

If you're still looking for a pic of the Oak inside, here's a link to a new White and Oak SLT Envoy at a dealer site. In the front you can see most everything but the seats are still covered in plastic but the rear seat pic shows what the two-tone Oak leather looks like.

Just click "here.

robz3

Thanks for the link. I am totally confused now. I checked out a Trailblazer that had the Oak leather interior. The lighter portions on the seat and the steering wheel and floor carpet looked like an orange shade of oak. Whatever it was, it didn't look good. Now when I see the pictures on that website you posted, the Envoy looked more like a brown/natural combination. Can the two interiors be different? Can Chevy light Oak be different than GMC light Oak?

I'd hate to order it and find out I didn't like it. Unfortunately, there isn't one light Oak Envoy within 120 miles of me.

Maybe I'll just stick to the dark pewter that's on the lot, even though I really would like a tan colored interior.

hardhawk

Robz3:

We love our Envoy with Indigo Blue exterior and the medium pewter leather interior. Lighter than the dark pewter and very attractive. The Oak sounds nice too. I think there CAN be a difference in interiors between the different division's models.

imototo

As I've posted before, the running boards on my Bravada were taken from an Envoy. They look perfect. My car arrived the 26th of July and it was ready for me to pick up the 27th. Showmethemoney, maybe your dealership is a very busy one.....hence, the couple of days to prep it. I'm almost positive the running boards are installed at the dealership, regardless of which triplet we bought.

greebo

Can anyone confirm that Traction Control is standard in a 2WD Bravada?

My wife and I are cross-shopping the Bravada with the Envoy. During a test drive of the Envoy with the Prof. Towing Package, I noticed the button to disable Traction Assist near the cigarette lighter--the Bravada did not have such a button and Olds' official materials designate the Traction Assist as "optional". However, several reviews insist that it is standard and the car-pricing websites do not include it as an option.

Any thoughts?

couimet

If colours are important (When are they not?) check it out live - never take the accuracy of colour reproduction in pictures for granted ...

iukstu

I haven't been on for a while (computer virus) and just tried to catch up some. My front bumper also wiggles like it will fall off. The dealer said that it is normal, but if I want I can make an appointment with the body shop and they will see what they can do. Meanwhile, I have to take it back...AGAIN! Here's my question...When I am sitting at a light and take my foot off of the brake and put it on the gas, my Bravada makes a thunk, and feels like I have been rear-ended. It doesn't do it all of the time, but does it often. Of course, the dealer could not get it to "duplicate customer complaint" so nothing was done. Has anyone else had this problem? Also, what about the front passenger seat belt. Mine locks up and will not even come out so the passenger can put it on. It did it for the dealer, they ordered another one, put it on, and guess what...it still does it. Both times I have been out of state when it locks up. I have to take it back again but was wondering if anyone else has had any problems.
Now, here is the kicker. My console door was messed up and they couldn't fix it so they had to order a new console. When I picked my Bravada up, I was 30 minutes down the road when I saw a spot on my dash. Thinking it was grease, as in the previous visit, I reached over to wipe it off. It was not grease...it was a 1+ inch CUT IN MY DASH. I turned around and went back but the service dept. was closed. I showed it to the Gen. Manager and he took all of the info and said to call him in the morning. Everytime we tried to call, he was unavailable. When we got home from work there was a message stating that they were aware of the problem and have ordered us a new dash. No apology...nothing. What makes me the maddest is that they had to have known that they did it, yet chose not to tell me. Did they think that I would not see it? Now I worry that the dash will rattle after they tear it apart. I am so disappointed right now with my Bravada, although I realize that most of my problems are with the dealership. I love my Bravada...but right now would trade it in just so I wouldn't have to deal with these people any more. I can't handle people who are not honest, or at least don't own up to their own mistakes. If they would have pointed out the cut when I picked the vehicle up, I would have been upset, but not nearly as mad as I am now.
OK...I vented my frustrations and feel somewhat better (not really). Meanwhile, has anyone else had trouble with the thunking or the seat belt? Thanks for listening and any help you can give.

IUKSTU

beefcake

You're not alone; my Bravada also has the transmission problem you described. The instant I press the accelerator when I'm stopped it feels like the transmission shifts gears. Sometimes the shift is perfectly smooth, and occasionally it doesn't shift at all, but most of the time it jerks. I've also had problems with the transmission not going into gear right away when I move between Park, Reverse and Drive, especially when I'm pointed uphill. I'll move from Park to Drive, it feels like the tranny has shifted into Drive, but then I hit the gas and the car slams into gear. My dealer couldn't duplicate it (surprise, surprise); they updated the transmission programming, but it didn't help. I'm going to take it to another dealer soon to see if they can repair it.

I haven't had the other problems you mentioned, but I have a few different ones of my own: the driver's side stereo speaker on the dash buzzes when the instrument cluster is illuminated, and the whole car makes a loud metallic grinding noise when I'm moving and the wheels are fully turned to the left. I'm happy with my Bravada otherwise... hopefully I'll stay that way if I can get these things fixed.

mgrcm

I would like to thank the people who posted earlier on this forum about Zaino Bros. car wax.Just did my secound treatment of Z1,Z2 and Z6 on my Indigo Blue SLT Envoy and it looks great this stuff is awesome.Also figured out why my #1 key fob works the #2 driver settings on the DIC.There backwards.I took the #2 key fob and sure enough when I unlocked the door and started the car up the #1 driver and settings came up.When I go in for my first oil change I'll see if they can switch them around or maybe I can take them apart and swap the back covers around.

Rick

earlc

Someone posted the website for the Zaino Bros products awhile back but I forgot to write it down. If you have it would you please post it as I want to try their wax on my TB. Thanks