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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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  • carpro3carpro3 Posts: 10
    I wish our was that easy they update my computer at least 10 times clean the injector, throttle body and valve and replace ignition switch. Last Thursday they insisted it was fix and so we pick it up I change the air in the parking lot of the dealer to a stock filter. I took Envoy next morning headed to work needed gas stop and fuel went to start Envoy started but ran very rough for a couple then smooth out went down the street about a half mile to the drug store ran fine came out of the drug store drove about a mile and half way sitting at a light and it stall again. It restarted fine like it all was does after it stall, call GM Customer service becauce dealer was not open yet big help the were they just told me to talk it back to the dealer so I took it to back to the dealer the look on the service writer face was priceless. Now it sits at the dealer their drive with their computer on it see if it will stall. I think it time to consult attorney and see what the next step is.
  • macman246macman246 Posts: 118
    I forgot to mention several software updates didn't help.

    I'm surprised the dealer hasn't hooked up a data recorder to your Envoy. It's like a flight data recorder on an airplane, but monitors all the data and traffic going on in the Envoy between the various computers. There is a button you push when an "event" happens, so it saves a snapshot of the data from 30 seconds before to 30 seconds after you push the button. They should be able to diagnose what's going on by analyzing the data.

    After I had the data recorder installed, I drove home (uneventful), and parked it overnight in the garage. The next morning the battery was dead, because the data recorder drained the battery. I called a tow truck for a jumpstart, drove back to the dealer (uneventful again), and had them take the thing out. After that I called my lemon law attorney.
  • carpro3carpro3 Posts: 10
    The two times it stall on them they didn't have the data recorder now evertime they have the data recorder on the Envoy it has not stall. I Think it time for be to talk to a lemon law attorney and see if he think I have a good buyback case.

    Thanks for all the help I will let yopu know and new information.
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    2003 Bravada has shocks Front & Rear, not struts.
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    I had been wondering when someone would finally point that out!
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,088
    If this is the wrong place to post, I hope someone will suggest a better place:

    My wife and I started kicking around the idea of a third vehicle for a variety of reasons that are not relevant at this point.

    When my wife's BMW X3 was in the body shop for a door ding that turned out to be two week days a weekend and one more week day, the body shop and insurance company provided her with a "free" rental. The rental was a vanilla 2006 4WD Chevy Trailblazer with what must be pretty much the lowest level of options you would ever expect to find on such a vehicle.

    While it could not hide its truck underpinnings (apparently), the vehicle was pretty nice, more car-like than we would have ever imagined and, well, it WAS an American machine and we simply felt it would probably be a very good bargain.

    The media is full of this that and the other deals currently -- so, I went to the www.chevrolet.com web site and configured a very highly equipped Trailblazer SS -- then the web site says "search local dealer inventories for something remotely close to your configured vehicle."

    Other than color, there seemed to be several to choose from, so I went with the one that would be an OK color (Black with Ebony leather.)

    Let me say, I had no expectations other than one of my co-workers and one of my neighbors recent experiences which led me to believe a 5% discount was not uncommon and that discounts and rebates and deals and and and meant 15% off MSRP for a current model year version are not rare.

    The MSRP of this car was $$39,810 including shipping. The current "deal" is -$1,000 rebate.

    In ROUND numbers as close to the real numbers as will make sense on this blog here is the response I got within 24 hours:

    "We are pleased to inform you that the 2006 Black SS Trailblazer, VIN# XXXXXXXXXXX, is still available. Prior to Chevrolet's adjustment, it had a MSRP of $42,350.

    Your special GM Certified Special Sale Price is $38,097.03, plus tax and fees."


    The vehicle's window sticker is on the Internet and it is $39,810. So here is what has happened, I guess:

    The price was raised $2,540, then discounted $4,253.

    The car's window sticker was first marked up 6% then discounted off of that price 10%.

    You know, if they would've come back with a $-1,000 rebate "take it or leave it" OFF of the $39,810, I think I would have felt LESS, somehow, like something smelled.

    Now, however, this is a 10% discount but off of a car that has first been marked up 6%.

    I guess the game is played this way -- I guess I now counter with what $36,023 (15% off) and see how it plays?

    My wife and I are spoiled, or dazed and confused (both are likely) after dealing with Audi and BMW since 1977.

    For some reason, this strikes me as having a reasonably high "crap quotient" with this Chevy dealer (not necessarily that it is THE dealer who is making it up as she goes along -- although that thought has crossed my mind.)

    I don't even know if I want to do this now, but I am willing to listen to the replies from y'all.

    And, thanks! :shades:
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,866
    This can be easy. :shades:

    TMV it, cross check the number with others in Chevy Trailblazer/GMC Envoy/Olds Bravada: Prices Paid & Buying Experience, get quotes from dealers via the Edmunds.com page and focus only on the out the door price.

    Shouldn't take more than two hours, tops. :D

    Here's a role model: Edmunds Buys a Miata MX-5

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    Just incase you didn't know a Trailblazer SS is a performance vehicle and will drive nothing like the Trailblazer you rented. Firmer ride and much faster. :)

    http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/
  • blink3blink3 Posts: 74
    I am in Texas and have checked Ebay, found ONE. Checked Trader Online, within 300 miles of me, found ONE and it was '06 brand new. Any other car sites out there I can search?
    Thanks!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,866
    There's a "Find local cars for sale" link on the Edmunds.com main page that's affiliated with AutoTrader. Click on the Edmunds tab at the top right of this page for an easy shortcut. Good luck!

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • quarquequarque Posts: 41
    I too have felt jerked around by dealerships over the last 30 years. Then last year I went to a local Buick dealer to check out the Rainier. I liked it very much and found the dealer to be the best I've seen. Buick dealers seem to take pride in their owner-approval stats. I bought the Rainier and have no regrets. So go test drive a Rainier! :D
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Mark,

    You'll have to pardon GM, as they continue to try to adjust their pricing to reduce the amount of incentives, and get their pricing closer to "real-world" levels. It is GM and not the dealer that is fooling around with the prices. The sticker readjustment is something GM did, not the dealer.

    Now, there is a way to eliminate all of the "what's my price" stuff going on... that is, to get "GM in the Driveway" pricing. This is not the same as the employee price; it's the employee price + 4.5% (which is the same deal that suppliers get). This is a fixed price, not negotiable - the only caveat is that the dealership does NOT need to honor GMID - that's at their discretion (i.e. scarce or hot-selling car, they may not). My experience is that most dealers will do a GMID deal, particularly towards the end of the month.

    How do you get GMID pricing? You find a GM employee or retiree, who can issue two of these GMID certificates in a month. The only info the employee needs is the buyer's DOB and the last 4 digits of their SSN. The employee then enters that information into the GMFamilyFirst website, and it spits back a certificate number which the employee emails to the buyer. The buyer then takes that number in, tells the dealer they have this GMID certificate, and it's processed when the deal goes down.

    My mother-in-law is a GM retiree. I looked at the GMID pricing (available through the GMFamilyFirst website) and a TB SS with an MSRP of $39,435 has a GMID price of $36,353. Factor in the $1k rebate and now you're down to just over $35k. If you still have a non-GM vehicle I believe there is a $1k conquest rebate which brings the price down even further (though rebates are region-sensitive). If you had a GM card you could take even more off... welcome to the fun! More questions on GMID - contact me at the address in my Edmunds user profile.

    And hey, the Trailblazer SS is one heck of a machine! It's got the LS2 engine, same as the 'vette, GTO, SSR, and '06 CTS-V, pushing out 395 hp. Friend of mine has SS #1 and does performance tuning on them... loves the truck (haven't seen it yet). It's not just a run-of-the-mill SUV. Interior design/quality is still the weak point on these vehicles... but, they've been around otherwise since 2002, and the reliability is getting better... no major refreshes coming except maybe the interior for the 2008 MY...
  • lend1lend1 Posts: 1
    I have a 2004 Rainier(same as envoy) that just had the stabilizer links replaced. Huge difference in handling.
    I also have the clunk/surge/normal behavior issue. The dealer states that the computer is going through various checks, which causes the bump. The bump only occurs after starting the car, and getting to the first full stop. The stop time has to be long enough for the computer to do its full check, or it won't occur until the next lengthy stop. After it occurs, it will not happen again until the car is restarted and comes to the next full stop. It actually makes some sense regarding the system check.
  • moosie1moosie1 Posts: 5
    I also have a 2004 Buick Rainier and mine does not bump as you say. I doubt that that behavior is normal. I have 27000 miles on mine and it has never bumped. Maybe you should check with other Rainier drivers to see if there's is doing the same. Just to let you know.
  • deanodeano Posts: 11
    I wonder why they would use a totally different suspension format in the Bravada than the Trailblazer. My '02 TB EXT definitely has MacPherson struts in the front.

    Deano
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    My 2002 Trailblazer SWB LS has coil-over-shock front end with upper and lower control arms. The shocks run up through the center of the springs, but the shocks do not actually support the vehicle like a MacPherson strut suspension would do. You might want to double check your information source. BTW the replacement Bilstein shocks, front or rear, cost the same, and same shocks apply to all 360-370 chassis with the exception being those with the rear air suspension. That application takes a different part number for the rears only.
  • burdawgburdawg Posts: 1,524
    The tripletts all have wishbone front suspension. People get confused because the shock runs in the center of the coil spring somewhat like on a strut.
  • deanodeano Posts: 11
    Sorry if I added to the confusion. When I was looking for replacements, I looked on the Parts America/Advance Auto Parts website and they called for "Monroe MacPherson Strut: Sensa-Trac" for my TB. Then I went to the Monroe site and they called for either "SENSA-TRAC® STRUTS" or "REFLEX® STRUTS".

    In looking at the actual repair diagram, I can now see that it's just a "shock module".

    Deano
  • I have an '03 Trailblazer LT that we purchased brand new. The only "aftermarket" item installed is a remote start that was professionally added a few weeks ago. (Note, in between the stalling, not before so the remote start is not the cause)

    The vehicle has seen very moderate driving on highways and is not a "daily driver" as seen by the mileage. We have 2 months left on our warranty or 1700 miles. We have had an insane amount of warranty repairs on it over the past 3 years, from rear HVAC controls replacment (2x) to rack and pinion replacement, to gas tank neck replacement (2x), to rear windshield wiper replacement, to numerous 4wd repairs (when we only engage it maybe 10 miles a year in really bad snow) among dozens of other minor repairs, and the worst problem of all has hit us in the last 2 months.

    During the last 7 or so weeks, the vehicle has stalled at least a dozen times WHILE DRIVING. Initially, within the first year of buying the vehicle would stall a few times on startup and initially putting it into gear. Ok, not a big problem as it would only happen once or twice a month, definitely frustrating but not a safety concern. The dealer of course could not duplicate the problem after taking it in several times for the problem.

    As for the recent stalling during driving, I didn't believe my wife at first when she told me it died when she was slowing down for a car that was turning in front of her, but when I had it happen to me while slowing down at a stop light, it hit me like a brick wall - THIS IS FREAKIN DANGEROUS! She's toting our 13 month old daughter around and we really don't feel safe anymore. This is a serious safety issue!

    The vehicle's in the dealer as we speak and hopefully they find SOMETHING, but you can bet we will be monitoring the vehicle VERY closely these last few months while it's still in warranty.

    It was very refreshing (and unrefreshing at the same time) to see others with the same problem. I'm deathly afraid that the dealer will come back and say they could not duplicate the problem, but we will still experience the problem.

    From reading other posts, I've seen suggested courses of action range from calling GM Corporate, to calling the NTSB to calling a lemon law attorney.

    I believe lemon law applies if you file before 12 months or 12,000 miles of originally purchasing the vehicle? If so, that is not an option for us.

    Thanks in advance for any information you can provide,
    -Ed
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    There is a TSB for the O2 sensor on the '02-'03 Trailblazers and Envoys. I believe it's a connector problem and can lead to a stall. Have them check this, replacing with the upgraded part if necessary. They then need to clean the throttle body, do a crankshaft position variation relearn, and update the PCM to the latest version. If they don't believe me, have them call TAC. I had similar problems with an '04 Envoy stalling and throwing a P0130 code - bad bank 1 O2 sensor. Dealer gave me a lot of "we can't duplicate the problem" - drove around for over a month with a Kent-Moore data recorder, logging data, until the thing stalled again on my wife near the dealership. She took it in, I pushed some GM contacts, the dealer performed the maintenance above, and the truck's been working great for a week now, so I consider the problem solved...
  • jr222jr222 Posts: 15
    The only reason I used the word "struts" is because that's the term the tech at Firestone used. I do know what a McPherson Strut system is and the Bravada certainly doesn't have it. This guy looked experienced to me and seemed to know what he was talking about.

    The only only major difference between the TBs/Envoys that might mean the suspension is different is the AWD system unique to the Oldsmobiles. I really don't know, but I had always assumed the Bravada had an identical shock system.

    What I really want is a set of the Bilstein heavy duties. I've called a couple of the online dealers and none of them seem to have the Bravada in their books and can't tell me one way or the other whether the shocks for the TBs/Envoys will work. Obviously I don't want to order until I'm absolutely sure that the part nos. are going to be the same. You knowlegeable guys please help me out if you can.

    On the brighter side, I replaced the factory Michelin Cross Terrains with a set of Goodyear Fortera Silent Armor 17" tires. I can't recall owning Goodyear tires, but give these a huge thumbs up. I had read some rave reviews and decided to go with them. They are smoother and handle the bumps better than the Michelins. Pricey, about $150 more for the set than the Michelins, but I've always tried to buy the best tires I can afford.

    Now if I could get the right Bilsteins, I'll have a great handling truck.

    Cheers, JR
  • glubashglubash Posts: 19
    envoylover - I am wondering if you ever resolved the whistling noise that you originally mentioned.

    I have a 2003 V8/XLT and started noticing the same noise about 6 months after purchase. At first, I only heard it when slowing down around 1000 RPM when the engine was warm. If I hit the gas, the noise went away or, if the RPM's dropped below around 800, it went away. Since then, I have mentioned it to the dealer on each of my numerous visits without any luck in getting it resolved. Currently, the noise level has increased and is more prevalent around a wider range of RPM's. My warranty runs out in May and it would be nice to take care of this problem.

    Has anyone else had this problem and managed to get it fixed?

    Thanks!
  • glubashglubash Posts: 19
    mcmath - "I was driving listening to a CD and was changing the EQ settings and all of a sudden the standard eq settings (normal, driver, spatial, talk) turned to the non bose settings eq (1,2,3,4,5,6) they had preset eq values but didn't say pop, jazz, talk, etc. Also the auto volume that usually gave the (on off)selections suddenly allowed the speed volume control settings of min, mod, max. What is going on? After I turned the ignition off the power stayed on for 5 seconds and then reset itself (there was a quick powerdown) after that the settings reverted to the bose radio selections. Has anybody else experienced this with the bose radio/cd?"

    I had this same problem a few weeks ago in a 2003 Envoy. The auto-volume on/off went to the speed control as you describe above. For a few minutes, I was hopeful since the Bose auto-volume is junk but it reverted back to its normal settings after re-starting the engine (the Min, Med, Max settings didn't work anyway, I suspect because there is no speed feedback to the radio in the Bose setup).

    I contacted Bose awhile back about the lousy response of the auto-volume control and was told the following:

    "Bose Corporation supplies the speakers and amplifiers and the radio/cd portion of the system is supplied by Delphi Electronics."

    The other problem that I have had with that radio is that there is very little resolution in the volume control (the steps are too big). One click up is too loud and one click below that is too soft. This is even more of a problem with the Bose Auto-volume control enabled.

    Glubash
  • Thanks for the specific info. I have printed out your post if/when it happens again and we take it back. 2 months/1700 miles left on the warranty! So if it happens again, it better happen soon! :)

    As a followup, we picked up the trailblazer today and they said they strongly feel the recent stalling is related to the very recent SES light. I don't know the exact code, but they said it was a cam sensor error. Specifically the "camshaft sensor was shorted" as reported on the work order.

    We will see if it was in fact related, or if the stalling occurs again.

    Thanks again!
    -Ed
  • bsaxtonbsaxton Posts: 4
    girlfriend took trailblzer shop yesterday, due to stalling, was first told oxygen sensor bad, now they found camshaft sensor bad? 18000 miles only on car?! maybe this is possible recall problem?
    billy
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    The O2 sensor is a known issue - there is a technical service bulletin out on it:

    Document ID# 1652870
    2003 GMC Truck Envoy - 4WD
    Subject: SES Light Due to a P0130 DTC - Install Updated O2 Sensor and PCM Calibration - keywords 4.2 controls driveability engine gas HO2S intermittent LL8 light MIL PCM poor #PIP3411 - (04/27/2005)

    Models: 2002-2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
    2002-2003 GMC Envoy
    2002-2003 Oldsmobile Bravada

    with 4.2L Engine (VIN S - RPO LL8)
  • Thanks to this forum I corrected the following problems in my 03 Envoy. Loose steering and bad metallic grinding noise when shifting from park to reverse were caused by a bad half shaft. This was done twice, once in 04 than again in 05. In 04 it had to be special ordered. It took three weeks to get. In 05 it was in stock which made me suspicious that they had a stockpile of half shafts readily available. I've read on this forum that this is a redesigned part. Problem two was the air conditioning blowing hot air especially while stopped. After several visits to the dealership, the AC cycling switch was replaced. It did not solve the problem. After my regular warranty ran out, I was able to use the extended warranty I purchased at an independent car repair shop I've used. From this site I learned about the redesigned cooling fan clutch. It was replaced and AC works better now than day one. Also had the right sway bar link (read about this in this forum) replaced and it elimnated an annoying squeaking noise which happened over bumps and left turns. I don't know which makes me happier, having my car finally fixed after three long years or knowing I never have to go back to the horrible GM service department.
  • I recently experienced the stalling and erratic idling of my 2002 LS TB, took it to the dealer about a month ago for two days and they reprogrammed the computer for free according to a software recall. I also had the air and fuel filter changed, fuel pump checked.

    The truck would (intermittently) rev up and down while idling causing the engine to eventually stall. When you tried to accelerate while this was happening, the tach would go up, but the truck would shutter and spit and severely hesitate. Since having it fixed, the idling problem has not occurred, however the SES light has been on and I'm experiencing some major hesitation in accelerating while going 50-60 MPH. When you step on the gas to go a little faster like going uphill etc, the truck actually goes slower for a few seconds as if it was not getting any gas. Then it seems to kick in and take off, only to do it again when you step on the gas the next time.

    This is very intermittent, but seems to happen more frequently within the first 5 or 10 miles of a trip.

    Can anyone help out? I see a lot about the TSB 1652870 and will have the dealer look into this, but as you know, everything gets expensive especially when I am still paying on the 02 and have 85K miles!!

    PS, I also have experienced other issues which seem to be prevalent on this board, anyone please feel free to email me and ask if I can help, hopefully I can!

    Thanks

    Brian
  • bsaxtonbsaxton Posts: 4
    thanks..
    got car back yesterday, service order only has the following:
    replaced crank shaft sensor capasitor sensor (not sure if this is two different sensors or not)
    fp number description
    12584079 sensor 2.383
    12597025 valve 0.736

    not sure what these are, but car does seem ok now
  • carpro3carpro3 Posts: 10
    Well I left mine at the dealer for a week when I was on vacation of couse it would not stall for them. Try to tell them about so of the think you guy said to check they did not want to know they just want me to take the Envoy and let them know If it stall again I told them I would only take it if the put one of those Data recorder on the Envoy the didn't finally they did so now the data recorder is on but I think it not work right becauce say when you start engine hit switch and red light should come on and when you when it stall you should hit the button again and the light should start blink show that it is recordering, it just blink with engine running or not so I will proably have a dead battery in the morning.

    I'll let you know what happen Pete
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