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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    "Maybe they're decontenting the triplets to make them more reliable."

    Yup, ya never know when those "high-tech" articulating headrests, underhood and glovebox lights, map pocket on the back of the drivers seat, rear console a/c and body color side molding on the LS, etc will give you technical problems, not to mention the previously STANDARD in '02 side air bags. (Anyone see the latest small SUV side impact tests on the news the other day? I think I kinda like having the SABs now)

     Bottom line, the most likely reason is simply cost cutting. And with that came an increase in the base price. Have to pay for the incentives and GM retirees pensions somehow..
  • scottc454scottc454 Posts: 356
    That's not what I meant. By getting rid of all the extra stuff and simplifying the manufacturing process, they can create a more reliable product. By spending less time wiring up dubious gadgets and lights, they can concentrate on other things like being careful not to run wiring harnesses where they can get damaged by steering linkage, etc.

    Obviously, this doesn't apply to every little thing. It doesn't sound like it would help that much but it also doesn't sound like it would save that much money either. Anyway, it probably is just cost cutting. I was merely coming up with another possible explanation.
  • kram18kram18 Posts: 45
    Anyone have any hints on how to wire in a set of hella black magic fog lights on a trailblazer LS so they go on and off with the automatic headlights? i.e. off when the DRL's are on but on when the headlights automaticaly come on? Not sure if this is possible but I figure this is the place to ask.
  • TBlazed,
     My feelings are that the things that you mentioned that were standard equipment on the 02 LS models (rear air, side airbags) and are not on the 03 models were given to the initial year as a "perk" to get people to buy a brand new vehicle. You took a big risk buying and you were rewarded. There is, however, absolutely no excuse for eliminating the under hood light and glove box light. To save a few bucks here and there is one thing, but eliminating these necessities on a 30K+ truck is just plan rediculous.

    Just my opinion,
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    I figured the original content of these was based on sales at pre-9/11 market conditions. After 9/11 when GM came out with the Keep America Rolling campaign, that was the beginning of what has been a very expensive and difficult thing to end. They tried to end big factory incentives in May '02 and sales fell through the floor. Now they have to make up for the losses somehow to try and meet projected profits they originally planned into earnings estimates etc. So GM cuts $50-$100 in manufacturing costs from every car and truck across the board. Cost cutting at every level was a stated goal at the shareholders meeting I went to last year. Multiplied by 6 or 8 million vehicles that ain't pocket change.

    Now if somebody in the aftermarket industry wants a captive market just itching to spend money, come up with a retrofit custom foglight kit for the LS Trailblazers that interfaces with the BCM for full automatic control.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    I say go ahead and create a "Accolades, Rants and Raves" forum for the triplets and leave this one in tact. Something tells me that the latter forum will continue to dominate while the "I love my Triplet" forum quickly dies or gets the once over from curious minds and those not willing to post (or feel the need to post) just how HAPPY they are with their triplet.

    Honestly, giving the whining, etc. THIS forum has been the MOST useful for getting problems, issues and concerns addressed. Heck.. If my vehicle was trouble free then I would probably NEVER post here either.. I mean.. what for? Why waste your time when your vehicle is a gem?

    Even though I went through all the trouble with my 02 Envoy, after 8 months of selling my 02, I decided to retry my luck with an 03! So far so good @ 1500K on the odometer! Do some research and you will quickly find out that the competition is still far behind when comparing the features that you can get on a TRIPLET. Heck.. even the $60K Lincoln Navigator that I was 95% sold on purchasing did not even have as many features as the triplets!

    I agree that we shouldn't use this forum to BASH the triplets; and I ESPECIALLY hate it when NON-TRIPLET owners peek their heads in here to add their worthless two cent comments on "Gee.. after reading this, I am soo glad that I didn't get a triplet!" GROW UP.. Why even bother wasting your time typing a message, go join the other forum of the vehicle you DID buy!

    Have a good weekend everyone!

  • drcsfdrcsf Posts: 36
    I have put 3,000 miles on the 2002 Envoy SLT I bought used a couple of months ago. I have continued to read every post here, good and bad.

    My only complaints are: The power mirrors rarely return to their exact position, which I will address with my dealer. The leather seat cushion presses on the lighter cover and the center console, making a mark when folded down; I am now keeping a hand towel in the car as a buffer. But my biggest complaint is my wife has basically taken over the use of the truck, as she absolutely LOVES driving it.

    I read all the complaints here and I do feel these boards provide a good resource for those with problems. But I think all manufacturers have issues with their products. My Toyota Camry is equipped with their V6 engine, an engine used in millions of Avalons, Camry's, Highlanders, ES and RX 300's. This engine has a major problem of turning perfect motor oil into sludge and completely failing, sometimes in less than 20,000 miles. Toyota denied the issue for years, then blamed it on poor maintenance and then finally admitted a problem exists. I have a letter in my files stating Toyota will pay any for engine failure due to sludge or gelling of motor oil. Anyone unfamiliar with this issue just search the web; there are entire anti-Toyota sites devoted to this. My neighbor's Volkswagon Passat had a major iginition coil recall, as did most other Volkswagons and Audis. And my other neighbor bought a early Mercedes M Class which was much, much worse than most triplets. And there are probably similar stories for most manufacturers.

    Ours are really very nice vehicles, but obviously not perfect. So keep the discussion on problems coming as it is helpful, but don't think for a minute GM or these triplets have the monopoly on complaints.

  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    power mirror problems, like described above.

    The dealerships do several things: reprogram the mirror control module; replace the control module; or replace the Body Control Module (BCM).
  • ross1962ross1962 Posts: 229
    Well, it depends on what he means by normal! It does happen in a lot of Trailblazers, but that doesn't make it "normal". I have it too and have asked to have it fixed. They told me they started up 5 brand new Trailblazers and heard the same thing. I know it's benign. It's not hurting anything, but I still want it fixed. So, I'll wait until the TSB comes out and then take it in. No big hurry - I just crank up the new Allman Brothers CD! (Which is really good BTW!)
  • Looking under the hood of my 03 TrailBlazer LT I noticed something I had not noticed before. There is a red wire with an end crimped onto it (definitly looks factory because it doesn't have any insulation on the crimp) that is not attached to anything. Seems like it is the power wire for something. It is in the loom that is headed to the fuse box under the hood. Is this some sort of a diagnostic wire that only has to be hooked up when troubleshooting or is it supposed to be connected? Does anybody else have this? I had a remote start installed and am wondering if something had to be disconnected to make it work. By the way, the truck is an LT with no options.

  • quickdtooquickdtoo Posts: 266
    That's the power wire for a trailer brake controller, attaches to the terminal near it on the power distribution center after connecting the wires under the dash to a brake controller. tim
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    "It depends on what he means by normal.. They told me they started up 5 brand new Trailblazers and heard the same thing."

    If that was in response to my comments, the resetting sound heard at power up does seem to be just that-"normal". My friend's inst cluster that was just fixed 2 weeks ago makes a slight sound at initial power up when the tach pointer sets to "0", just like mine does. But you should not hear a noise coming from it when the engine is running. My friend's emitted a noise continuously when the engine was running. That is NOT normal. His didn't start making a continuous audible noise until he had 15K miles or so on it.
  • aldan93aldan93 Posts: 202
    I was wondering what would an alternative vehicle be compared to these TB's? NO EXPLORERS, or foreign models at all. I like spending the money where I make the money!
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    " I was wondering what would an alternative vehicle be compared to these TB's?"

    Other than a TrailBlazer? Olds Bravada, GMC Envoy, Buick Rainier, Isuzu Ascender. Nothing else compares power- and price-wise for a full perimeter frame, truck based mid-sized SUV (or Passenger Truck as I prefer to call them).
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Went down to East Texas about a 280 mile round trip from D-FW yesterday. Filled up before I hit the road and filled up again same pump, same position, got 20.5 mpg. That was doing the trip each way in 2 hours flat, averaging 70 mph, and blasting around slower traffic on two-lane Highway175 at wide-open throtle at least 15 or 20 times! With the 3.42 gears, it's good to 90 or so in 2nd gear. By the time I would get settled back in the right lane and look in the mirror the vehicles I passed would be a half-mile behind me!
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Re: deleted message- "Another alternative" by canddmeyer Jun 22, 2003 (5:13 pm)
    canddmeyer stated: "Toyota 4Runner is an alternative. I believe its the best vehicle for the $ in this class, & a V8 is optional. I currently own a 1997 Blazer, but due to owners statements here there won't be a replacement Chevy in my future. While I'd really like a Tahoe, my needs don't call for anything bigger than a midsize SUV."

    A 1997 Blazer doesn't even compare. These are well past their second year of production and the majority of glitches are resolved. Plus, GM stood up and took responsibility for any engine block sleeve problems in the initial first year batch without us even asking for a warranty extension. But a Toyota 4Runner may be an OK alternative too.

     Didn't Toyota have a serious engine oil sludging problem they took several years to finally admit to? Just remember, even Toyota/Lexus has service departments that are kept very busy. I saw one of the sludged up engines apart last time I visited a friend that works at a local Lexus dealer. What a mess in a 3 year old engine.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    Canddmeyer may have deleted his own post. I am not aware of any host action taken on the post in question.

    tidester, host
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    was off-topic. I was a little dismayed after responding to the post that it was gone. But, the ol' page cache memory came in handy. Didn't want to sound like I was talking to myself, and I thought Canddmeyer had a couple of valid points.
  • Wouldn't you know it, right before a 1400 mile trip on Tuesday! Yesterday the the wipers would not turn off, unless your in Park, shift into R or Dive and they sudden start working on their own at a random rate while in the off position. Today same thiing but now the washer motor won't stop running spaying the windshield constantly! I pulled fuse #42 that the manual says is for the "Wiper/Washer". The Wipers still are doing their thing but atleast the washer motor stopped!

    Dealership is going to love this one, we are now their "favorite" customer after starting a Lemon-Law claim due to the AC system. Mysteriously soon afterwards we got a call from a GM rep stating that they have found the issue with what is causing the AC problems in the TB's and they had a truck come to our house and replace a module of some sorts , end of claim for us. We are now called Mr and Mrs McKinnon by the dealership service staff and get first priority. This after my wife laid a verbal whooping into the General Manager about service and the service department lax attitude to our problems. Mind you losing the AC in FL in May is not a pleasant thing when it is the family ride. We have had the TB in the shop every moth since Jan for the AC going out as others have described in this forum. In April they had to replace a connector too as it was partially melted! I knew that was not the root cause.

    We sure like this vehicle but this is the biggest POS GM we've ever owned. We had a wiper problem with them not working 2 months after we got it, now this again. I smell a lemon law re file again!

    If anyone wants a list of the parts "changed" for the AC problem we had, email me at and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

    Don McKinnon
    2003 TB Ext
  • aldan93aldan93 Posts: 202
    AC doesn't work, rattle under car exhaust? skid plate for oil change doesn't close, gasket in the rear is coming off near plate, UHMM I think thats it? Trip number 8 to the dealer. AC did work one day, then blows nice hot air!!! Only in America, great work GM all you people should be proud!
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