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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy

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Comments

  • scottnsc1scottnsc1 Posts: 16
    I have seen all three vehicles and I have to say the Trailblazer looks better in person than in pictures. Although, all that argent plastic cheapens the look. I don't think I would be happy with that for very long.

    I drove my sister's Bravada yesterday and it is excellent inside and out. The only quirk is that my wife could not find a comfortable seating position. She is short and the seat cushion is very deep. My sister got her Bravada for $100 over invoice, used her $1500 owner loyalty certificate, and got the 5/60 warranty. The dealers are willing to deal, but GM still doesn't have a good lease rate.

    I think we have decided to go with the Tahoe for a number of reasons. The first being seat comfort for my wife. The other being that my lease is about finished and I can't wait a year for the bugs to get worked out of this vehicle. (I'm not slamming GM, but almost any manufacturer has things that need to be ironed out on a completely new vehicle.)

    I agree the new Explorer is a bit boxy. In terms of styling, it seems to be a step backwards for Ford.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    My previous post was sarcasm based on my past experience with bose products. Not based on any
    experience with the new trailblazer.
  • rthammerrthammer Posts: 8
    I was under the assumption that the 3% hold back was based on the MSRP but my local dealer says that it is 3% of invoice minus destination charges. Which is correct?
  • jbossertjbossert Posts: 38
    I am a GM Supplier and received the standard GM supplier discount of GMS+4% (was 3% until this year). This basically equates to invoice price. If you are in the Midwest, you have a great chance of getting your employee discount.
  • roderacerroderacer Posts: 311
    I received some good info re: this issue from a fellow TH user (mchappell). You can view GMO and GMS prices at this site.


    http://www.gmfamilysavings.com


    Hope this helps...


    RR

  • morelockmorelock Posts: 7
    Just drove Envoy SLE and Bravada. Comparisons:

    Envoy - more rugged, but classy. Quitter, both wind noise and tire noise - there was some noise, but relatively quite. Car like ride, engine was nice - revived a little when didn't push peel done, but when real nice when going 30 and accelerate, felt like a sports car. Interior seemed nice, nice cloth material and dash looked good, even without fake wood. SLT has leather which looks better than Bravada leather, SLT Envoy was two-toned. Real roomy, I liked it alot.

    Bravada - loaded with goodies - only problem is goodies ain't always good for you. Leather was nice, but not as nice was Envoy SLT's. Air suspension did seem any different than coil springs in Envoy. Dash was okay, but nothing special. Looks sophisticated on the outside, less rugged. Road nice, and engine was good, but wind noise and tire noise, while not bad, was more noticable than Envoy. Salesman said tires on Bravada are bigger and thus tire noise is more, but wind noise - didn't have answer.

    Conclusion - unless you need all the extra's stick with the Envoy SLE - and if you need the extra's, unless you want sophisticated over rugged but classy, stick with the Envoy SLT.

    Envoy SLE - $31,645 with destination - GMS price was $27,656 I think - thats 87.4% of MSRP and destination.
  • markornomarkorno Posts: 2
    What is the Owner Loyalty Certificate??? Thanks!
  • sactokensactoken Posts: 10
    Looking online, for fully loaded TB-LT and Envoy SLT --4x2-- with 4.10 axel, running board, Bose, in-dash 6 CD changer, locking dif, tow pkg etc, I'm looking at $32,500+/- for the Envoy, and $30,750 +/- for the TB...or apx $1,200 over dealer invoice.

    I've seen the Envoy SLE and I'm drooling... Wife prefers the RX300 but best I've seen there equipped the way I like it is apx $34,750, which is about dealer invoice. I too like the Lexus, but it works out to about another $60 per month in payment over the TB.

    I'm willing to travel anywhere in CA or NV to pick up...has anyone seen better deals today? Do you think better prices are available or do I just have to wait until end of summer?

    AND...would you actually compare these to each other?
  • sactokensactoken Posts: 10
    Owner Loyality Certificate is for repeat GM customers, I believe.

    3% holdback is based upon dealer invoice because the holdback goes to pay financing costs, and they are financing the invoice amount, not MSRP.
  • earlcearlc Posts: 34
    The 3% holdback at GM is based on total MSRP NOT the invoice price.
  • Is the receiver hitch on the 2002 Bravada strong enough to carry a 350# motorcycle (no trailer) off road. The manual states that the max tongue weight is 750# but the hitch has a label of 400# max. Even though the bike and carrier is less that 400#, it will be sticking out 2 feet and will be bounce around alot off road.
  • akajoeakajoe Posts: 69
    The 0 down, 0 interest, 0 payments until 2/02 applies to customers taking delivery from dealer stock by 5/1/01 which gives you the month of April to find a dealer with Bravada's in stock. The best way is to go to an internet site like carpoint.msn.com or carsmart.com, enter your zip code and radius in miles that you are willing to travel to pick up the car, and model/options you want. They'll notify dealers in your area and the ones with Bravada's will contact you by email or phone. Then you can avoid visiting dealers with no inventory.

    Concerning your loan payments, when the deferred loan kicks in in 2/02, and you pay down your principle by $15K, your payments won't decrease because the payment amount is based on the loan contract and cannot change. The only thing that can change is the term (number of payments) based on remaining principle. Make sure there is no penalty for prepayment.

    Again, the deferred loan for a year is a great deal - particularly if you get a great price on the Bravada and you really like the car. It is worth easily $1600 in interest that GM is paying for (assuming $32K price, 5% interest per year). Your $15K in money market account will further earn more than $700. Pocket this, and apply it over the life of the loan to pay part of the loan payment and reduce the out-of-pocket monthly payments. Of course, financially the best thing to do is to paydown $15K up front since a money market account probably won't earn as much interest as the car loan rate. However, this doesn't work if you need to get the loan payments lower.

    My Bravada is pewter. It is sort of the color of those new faucets from Price Pfister. It hides dirt very well, is not too loud and offends no-one.
  • rthammerrthammer Posts: 8
    OK What's the deal? GM dealers in my area can't locate a Trailblazer anywhere on their computer. They even suggest that all these I'm reading about here are actually the old s-10 blazer trailblazer. Can anyone out there explain this to me? If there are so many on some lots, why can't our dealers locate them? These are the 2002 models aren't they?

    Also I,am still getting conflicting responses on the 3% holdback. What's the deal? I'm so confused.
  • earlcearlc Posts: 34
    You obviously have a very dumb dealer or either they are lying to you because the new 2002 Trailblazers are in the GM computer. I have been to 3 dealers so far and all of them went into GM's computer and printed out all the details of the TB's including all options, invoice prices and MSRP, etc. All the dealers in my area (Atlanta) have numerous new 2002 Trailblazers on hand. I suggest you find you a better dealer.
  • ruskiruski Posts: 1,566
    why don't you go to www.gmbuypower.com and find all the matching vehicles in your area. Then you can print it out, take it to your dealer and make him look like a moron.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    There are currently no trailblazers or bravadas in Chas. SC. I guess we are way down on the list.
    Holdback is on MSRP which includes shipping.
  • earlcearlc Posts: 34
    Very good idea, ruski. I didn't think of that.
  • b4zb4z Posts: 3,372
    Trailblazer is not listed as a model on that site.
    If you put in 2002, the only available model is the Cadillac Escalade. If you put in 2001 and chose Chevrolet, it is not listed. Try it.
  • They are producing them now and any dealer should be able to go into the computer and see regional allocation, what's being built ect.

    If you want something special or unusual and don't mind waiting a couple of months any dealer should also be able to do a factory order. Usually for a minimum amount above invoice as it doesn't have to sit on their lot, take up time etc. Deal with a fleet rep for this. The only downside is the wait and that you will not know for sure in advance what incentives you can take advantage of. You'd just have to see what incentives are in place when you take delivery.
  • bkjohnsonbkjohnson Posts: 17
    Just curious if anyone here is waiting until 2003 or later Trailblazers come out. Do any of you have reservations about buying a first year production vehicle? I've heard horror stories, and to be honest, I'm a little hesitant.

    My husband isn't too concerned, as he says he trust GM more than say Dodge, when it comes to first year production.
  • akajoeakajoe Posts: 69
    I had the same reservations before buying my Bravada. This applies in general to all vehicles of all makes, domestic and imports. Automobiles are very complex and its going to get worse before it gets better. With tens of thousands of design items in a car that has to be tested and validated individually and as an integrated system for mechanical fit, functional and wear/tear testing in each car, it is virtually impossible to fully test every thing.

    The increasing software content doesn't help. Software by its very nature is inherently complex and bug oriented. Heck, the drive by wire throttle is software. Under the circumstances, it is understandable why some features on our wish lists often don't make it into production in the first year or two. It is an accomplishment that they get their first production units as good as they do - this goes for any car manufacturer.

    Not to put the fear of god in new car buyers - there is signficant science, engineering and methodology that makes this all possible. If I had a choice, I would have waited until the next model year before getting my Bravada. Unfortunately, somebody totaled my Chevy S10 Blazer and I had no choice. There simply was nothing else that I liked besides this trio of Trailblazer, Envoy, Bravada. I originally was leaning to the TB, but alas, there aren't any to be had. Olds arrived first, but I'm happy that I ended up with the Bravada.

    The 5y warranty goes a long way to help my worries - next year the warranty probably won't be there. The financing deal is also a big help which I don't think will be repeated. My experience with GM has been very good. Given these parameters, I went for it.

    Good luck.
  • Is the receiver hitch on the 2002 Bravada strong enough to carry a 350# motorcycle (no trailer) off road. The manual states that the max tongue weight is 750# but the hitch has a label of 400# max. Even though the bike and carrier is less that 400#, it will be sticking out 2 feet and will be bounce around alot off road.
  • markornomarkorno Posts: 2
    I have not yet seen the Polo Green color for the 2002 Bravada. In Oldsmobiles literature, they indicate that this color as "late production". Does anyone know when this color will be hitting the dealers?
  • dindakdindak Posts: 6,632
    First year cars are indeed scary regardless of the manufacturer. Even Honda which has a better than average record had lots of problems with the first year of the Oydessey. That being said, my mom has a first year 99 Alero with no major issues to date. Only problem was a sticky door.. big deal.
  • akajoeakajoe Posts: 69
    So far, I've had my Bravada for a couple of weeks, and am still loving it. No problems so far, still in the 500 mile break-in period. I'm still the only one in town with one of these. Bravada's are still far and few in between, even when at the height of production, so it will keep it's uniqueness.

    I am feeling much more confident as time goes on - defects will show up earlier than later. And that 5/60 warranty makes me feel much better than getting a second year unit with just the 3/36 warranty. The warranty really was the clincher for me as to go ahead and get it the first year out. (getting free for a year didn't hurt either). I have no doubt that after 2004, assuming dealers accept the Olds phaseout by then, the Bravada as the other Olds models will get adopted under a different nameplate like Caddilac. So the logo is different, big deal. The Caddy logo is pretty stately though not as cool as the Olds swoosh. The Bravada will still be a great vehicle no matter who does the marketing. It is too good a vehicle for GM to write off. So I don't worry about support for the car.

    There is one other theory that I've heard from many - first year out usually uses the most heavy duty components because of the lack of time to cost optimize, and the need to reduce risk of recalls and defects getting out into the field (costs beaucoup bucks to fix). So they go conservative and use battle proven hardware where they can, and go conservative on the new components in their design and robustness. Costs are more, weight is more, but they have too much to deal with in getting production up before they can get into optimizing every door handle and mounting hardware. As the design gets rung out over multple seasons, they begin to attachk the costs and weight issues by redesign or substitution. By the last season, many parts that were originally metal or solid are now plastic or hollow, but cost and weight reduced. I've seen this in many Japanese cars. First year was much more metal, following years were very different and a lot more plastic.
  • I have heard that GM will come out with 7 passenger in the fall in an extended version of the current new trailblazer. But...they will only offer it with the 5.3L Vortec V8. I find this dissappointing, as I really like the looks of the new inline 6. Have any of you heard this???
  • Well it's a fact the 1st model year vehicles, especially American made ones generally have more problems or issues than the follow on years as they usually will correct or fix these issues in each subsequent year. But if a vehicle has numerous problems resale value will reflect that.

    But having said that who can wait a few model years to see how reliability is. You either need or want a vehicle now or not. The 5/60 warranty should help with the comfort factor. Any problems or issues would likely be fixed, it would just be the inconvenience of dealing with it.
  • earlcearlc Posts: 34
    A recent post mentioned a GM dealer in North Carolina named 98.com that sells all new vehicles at $98. over invoice price. I contacted them with all info I wanted in a new Trailblazer and they E mailed me a price which was in fact invoice price plus $98.00, plus $88.00 Dealer prep, plus $285.00 for advertising. Not exactly 98 over is it? More like $471. over. Has anyone else had any experience with this dealer. I've noticed that some of my local dealers add in the $285. advertising price and some do not. Does anyone have any info on this?
  • sactokensactoken Posts: 10
    Just spoke to a GMC dealer who said that Buick will have a version of the TB/Envoy out soon? He even had a name for it, but I forgot.

    FYI on inventory: Sacramento/NorCal hasn't seen one TrailBlazer yet, and I don't think we have an olds dealer per se. Some are gone, and some have merged with the GMC dealership. Very few Envoys (no SLTs) are in, but no Bravadas.

    When you tell the sales rep other areas have them they look at you like they wish you would just go away.

    carsdirect.com has the vehicles listed as a factory order item, albeit with old photos.
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