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2012 Honda Civic

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Comments

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    I haven't seen any crash test results and they normally aren't released this early.

    This would be surprising since they usually improve with each new redesign.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    Since there was no real changes between 2006 and 2011, I've very surprised. They did revamp their testing methods so I would suppose all makes were affected.

    Honda has the largest indoor crash test facility in the world and they have never failed to meet or exceed what the government results turn out to be.

    When they project, say a four star rating, they haven't been wrong.

    I have seen some horribly mangled up Civics where everyone walked away unhurt.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Posts: 169
    Keep in mind- NHSTA revised its crash test standards to be more in line with IIHS.ORG, where in which the 2011 Honda Civic does reasonably well in crash tests. Personally, I check both sites for ratings, but after years of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety having higher test standards, IIHS is whom I give more credibility rather than our federal government
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    Honda has a history of withholding the latest tech in their cars. They were, for example, among the latest to get mp3 players, bluetooth, trip computers, up-to-date navigation systems, and much more, into their cars.

    But what is beyond my understanding is, that when they finally DO offer the tech, they always reserve it only for the top models, while most competitors have it standard -- or in worst case, optional -- on even their most basic models. And although Honda is being criticized for this all over, they don't seem to get a lesson.

    Let's take, for example, heated mirrors. This simple, important safety feature comes today standard on the Elantra, Corolla, and many other compacts. But on the Civic, you need to opt for the top of the line EX-L to get it. Same is with blue-tooth. You have it on the Elantra GLS and Corolla LE, but you need to buy a higher-end model civic to have that. Does Honda think that LX owners doesn't own cell phones? Same goes for other stuff, like exterior temperature indicator, etc. etc.

    And when Honda finally wants to "upgrade" a model, the first thing they'll usually throw in will be a 'sunroof'. That's very weired IMO, because it seems that Honda thinks of a sunroof as more important or useful than heated mirrors and bluetooth. Anyone here thinks so?

    I think Honda has to re-think the models, content, and options on each model. It was always very wrong, and it still is. Years ago, it did not matter much, the Civic was the favorite compact car anyway, but in todays competitive world, they need to change policy. Because bottom line, in a Honda you usually get the LEAST for your money. :mad:
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Posts: 169
    """in a Honda you usually get the LEAST for your money""""

    Perhaps in terms of features per dollar, but when you factor in class leading resale value, reliability, and among the lowest ownership costs in their respective classes, HONDA GIVES YOU ALLOT FOR YOUR MONEY.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Civic may not have class-leading resale value OR reliability. For example, ALG says the Elantra is tops in the compact class for residual value, and JD Power says that the Prius, Elantra, and Matrix are the top 3 compacts in its latest Vehicle Dependability Study, and that brand-wise Honda is behind 10 other brands in dependability, including Toyota and Hyundai.

    As for lowest ownership costs, that is hard to believe given there are cars such as the Elantra with lower up-front purchase prices, higher fuel economy, longer warranties, and higer resale values.

    So I too struggle with how Honda, and the 2012 Civic specifically, gives you more for your money.
  • yysyysyysyys Posts: 51
    100% agree! Bluetooth is a safety option this days and it is not in LX model. This is one of the many reasons i am getting Elantra GLS.
  • sportflyer1sportflyer1 Posts: 13
    I agree, we will be buying either an LX or an EX (I just want the blue tooth and the factory alloy wheels). You get the least stuff for the most money on a Honda. However here is an interesting observation, see how many 10 years old or older cars are running around and most of them are Hondas and Toyotas , and they are in good shape too. See a few old Focus and Elantras and they are beat up already.
  • accordguy0325accordguy0325 Posts: 169
    Consumer Reports rated Honda as producing the most reliable cars, followed by Subaru and Toyota. Hyundai, Ford, and Kia are salivating at the prospect of passing Honda in terms of quality and repeat sales but they still aren't there yet.

    Their respective owners (like the ones in this forum) are overly anxious to see Honda fall.. I say- hold your breath until it happens, then I won't have to listen to it anymore ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Hyundai, Ford, and Kia are salivating at the prospect of passing Honda in terms of quality and repeat sales but they still aren't there yet.

    Actually, Hyundai and Ford are there already on repeat sales i.e. owner loyalty:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/08/hyundai-tops-brand-keys-customer-loyalty-surv- ey/

    This trend was confirmed for Hyundai at least by KBB's owner loyalty stats:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/15/study-hyundai-customer-loyalty-upends-toyota-- honda-takes-1/

    I already shared the latest JD Power VDS results, in which Honda trails Hyundai and Ford is one point behind Honda. The latest JD Power IQS shows Ford ahead of Honda, and Hyundai just behind Honda.

    As a past owner of multiple Honda Civics (also Hyundais and Toyotas and many other brands), I would love to see Honda return the Civic to its former spot at the top of the compact class... assuming they can do it at a competitive price. Posting outdated stats about the Civic and its competitors, and brands in general, won't make that happen any faster.

    If you have links to the contrary, please post them.
  • My friend was in the market for a new compact car. So we took all the top selling compacts on a back to back test loop. First Chrysler 200 then a Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus 2012, Ford Fiesta, Mazda i3, Toyota Corolla 2012, and Hyundai Elantra 2011. Every car was an automatic with mid level specifications for around $20,000 in most cases except the less expensive Elantra and Fiesta models. The most expensive models were the Focus, Cruze and 200. Wow surprise, surprise the big Detroit three were over priced and undervalue, except for the Focus which a class above in everything! However, the Hyundai Elantra was the best bang for buck hands down after we reviewed every detail that included a quite detailed testing loop including several spirited driving tests over the same roads with mixed country and city sections. Elantra wasn't the best driver that was won hands down by the Mazda 3 with the Focus a close second. But the Elantra's creature comforts, standard feature list, fluid styling, warranty, stated fuel economy and lowest overall price is too hard to beat.

    When my friend had everything in order finance wise to buy an Elantra the Honda 2012 was released. So since our local Hyundai and Honda dealers were side by side he went to the Hyundai dealer and picked up a 2011 Elantra GLS and I went next door and picked up a Honda Civic EX 2012 sedan. Not to the amusement of both dealers as we disappeared for nearly 3 hours and 100 miles later returned both the cars only after one dealer called worried we weren't coming back, while the other when we returned was about the call the police thinking we'd run off with the car!

    First we took the cars along a high speed section of highway, switching between cars after section of road to run the same section in the other car. First thing we noticed was that the Honda Civic was sure footed and felt like we were driving a mid size car and not a compact. It was that comfortable and stable. Like it was a longer wheelbase and wider car than it actually was. It was a real relaxed driver even at high speeds well in excess of double the speed limit. It was quieter and much easier to drive. The Hyundai was good but liked to wander and felt vague at both low and high speeds. The Civic was not as direct as the 2011 model we had driven. It actually feels like an Accord to drive. The Elantra felt course and unrefned in comparison. We next drove both cars over a 20 mile loop of country back roads with a 30 mph posted speed limit. Now I must admit we ran at speeds up to 90mph and took corners at 3 x the posted limits. The Honda cruised through the loop without breaking a sweat, the Hyundai in comparison was left breathless. It's engine roared, it's tires squealed, it was all over the road trying to keep up with the civic that just cruised effortlessly along the same section of road. If there were mid corner bumps and undulations mid corner the Hyundai Elantra tried it's best to lose its line and composure while the Civic just remained planted in it's lane and held it's line while doing it in a relaxed manor. We couldn't believe the Elantra was this bad when pressed. So we drove it sedately at 30 mph over the same loop back to back and the Elantra jostled us around, punched us in the kidneys with every small imperfection and generally was uncomfortable on anything but a smooth blacktop. The Civic never lost it composure or it's comfort. Suddenly the extra $2000 for the Civic seemed a bargain. The Civic is so refined to drive over any road surface nothing ruffles it.

    Since both car had fuel economy trip computers we tested the fuel economy overall on trip B and trip A we kept resetting and testing over each test loop. The Civic was supposed to average 32 with the Elantra 33. What we found was our overall average with the Elantra was 18 mpg while the Civic returned 27 mpg. The best we saw on the highway section was 42 mpg with the Elantra and 45 mpg with the Civic. Both cars at all times were following each other within a few hundred yards over the same section of road and each was driven equally by both drivers. So drive the Elantra hard and gas mileage will suffer much more than in the Civic. The Elantra was just found wanting trying to keep pace with the Civic. After each high speed run we'd both emerge from the Elantra White knuckled from gripping the steering wheel so hard to try and keep it in line. While the Civic was fun and hard to give up each time after each run. We actually went into this test with high hopes for the Elantra. Near the limit the Hyundai is actually dangerous wanting to head for the trees while the Civic gently lets the driver know its time to back off.

    Thinking we were testing our luck with the locals, we parked both cars on a dead end road side by side for 30 minutes and pulled everything apart to look over both cars feature for feature. Tested each and every dash and seat setting and played with all the settings and controls. Here is the results we we found: Seat comfort--Civic, display/controls--Civic (easier to adjust controls while on the move on the civic), front seat room--Elantra, rear seat room--Civic, quality of materials--Elantra, quality of paint--civic, trunk space--Elantra, panel fit and finish--Civic, slam a door hard on the Elantra and the whole car vibrates and rattles, slam the door on a Civic and nothing but a solid thud, tires--civic, rims--Elantra, brakes--civic, stereo/speaker quality--CIVIC! The multi-information display hands down Civic. Spare tire/jack--Civic (Elantra has neither) Engine bay--Civic, Styling--Elantra. The list goes on and on but as you can see the Civic is just a better all round drivers car. Sure it is $2000 more to buy a Civic EX over a Elantra GLS, but it is worth every penny for a much better built and more refined over all car. Sure the Civic LX is not as good, actually not worth the look at, (We drove one of those too), but skip that and buy the Civic 2012 EX. The Civic is no longer the no brainer sure bet choice like it once was. You really need to get each side by side and drive them back to back over the same roads to see the differences. But compared the Elantra, the Civic still is the best choice for a small car. Just pay the extra $33/ month over five years for the Civic and you will thank yourself at every monthly payment that you made the right choice. (Especially when you come to sell it and get the higher resale value for the Civic.)

    So the Civic was bought, end of story.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    edited May 2011
    Wow, where do I start? So, after driving like a "Dukes Of Hazzard" plot for three hours or so the Civic was what? the car to beat (that means drive it like you don't own it which you clearly did) or use as a get-a-way car next time you rob the local branch? I actually own a 2006 Civic and was suprised to hear one could take turns with 30 mph guidelines at 90!! I guess the bottom line is nobody except a bunch of young adults (I am making that assumption) will ever drive in this manner. I simply wouldn't know how to make use of this information in any practical manner if I were in the market for this class car. I will tell you that our 06 Civic does get good fuel economy, has ample perfomance to merge on the interstate most times and can cruise at 70 or so all day long. It IS noisy at those speeds or any other with ample wind and road noise, it does turn in fairly sharply and can go around curves mostly effortlessly (maybe not @ 3X the posted speeds). The sheet metal is paper thin, the doors shut solid enough, the interior has cheap plastics, the radio plays OK. Getting back to the paper thin sheet metal for a second...short story. Three years ago this August we experienced a major hail storm. Both our cars were parked side by side in the drive. End result? The 1995 Dodge Stratus had about 10 or so shallow dents on the horizontal surfaces and a broken side mirror glass. The Civic had more than a hundred even on creased surfaces with more structual rigidity. Once the insurance adjusters circled each dent (to be repaired) the car looked like it had measles. It was out of service 6 weeks (sure lots or other cars were being repaired at the time as well) and cost nearly $4500 in "painless dent guy" attention. The Dodge? well, I got a check for $1400 to have the few dents fixed but all I did was have the mirror replaced. Simply day and night between the damage. I believe you could dent the Honda with a hard push with your thumb on the hood. The Honda is OK and but not without flaws. It should be noted I did not test drive either the 12 Civic or new Elantra but I am willing to bet the Elantra is quieter at normal speed, handles reliably at normal speeds with the wife and kiddies in the car and will generally "feel" richer to the average young family guy with more features, better styling and great warranty. There you have it.... have what? my opinion on the matter of course.
  • Actually, we're not young adults at all, much older in fact! You mentioned noise. Go drive both back to back over the same section of road to see for yourself. The Elantra GLS and the Civic 2012 EX were equal on cabin noise at different ends of the speedo. The Elantra from 0- 45 mph exhibited less road noise than the Civic. Speeds above 45mph the Elantra started to suffer from wind noise around the A pillars, doors and external mirrors. By 65 mph it was a very noticeable, and at 70 mph and above the cabin was very noisy compared to the quieter Civic. The Civic had slightly more road noise below 45 mph not by much though and was bad at all compared to the 2011 Civic. What you did notice about the Civic Ex was that it was very quite from middle to high speeds--think freeway speeds 55-75 mph. At these speeds and above the Elantra was literally humming. Above 75 and the Elantra was screaming. While the Civic remained calm and quite by comparison.

    We did drive a long test loop at normal posted speed limits (as I previously mentioned) to test fuel economy. As I said the Elantra was not anywhere near as comfortable or refined at low speeds as the Civic. The Elantra jostles you around in the seat hits ever bump harder (even at low speeds) and it steering even at low speeds is vague. Over any uneven surface or bump or pothole it's feels like an inexpensive car. While the Civic just soaks up these imperfections with hardly a murmur from the suspension or steering. Just read the professional car magazine reviews that now are showing up and they concur with what we found. The Civic is a better more refined car to drive.

    You compared your experience with your previous generation Civic. I mentioned we also drove a previous generation 2011 Civic for comparison purposes and it felt like a noisy unrefined lively compact car compared to the new Elantra and 2012 Civic. Honda have done there homework on the 2012 Civic EX, it is a very good car for it's money, worth every extra cent. If you only care about styling and a couple extra features, like a sliding center console armrest and soft cabin plastics than go for the Elantra. What Honda saved from sheet metal design it put to making a more refined better driving car. Price and style are the only real advantages the Elantra has over the Civic. I'll put my money down on substance over style any day.

    You mentioned about the hail damage on your Civic. Have you ever seen any Hyundai after a big hailstorm. I have and its one reason I'll never buy one. The Elantra panels feel thin and buckle more easily than the Civic when you push your thumb into them. Just slam the doors side by side and it was amazing to see the vibration jiggles the Elantra's panel did. As I said the Civic was solid in comparison.

    If you want a quite, relaxed freeway cruiser that in the real world gets better gas mileage in our tests, (we got 45 mpg with econ mode on the freeway) plus more confident and inspiring to drive. Yes the 2012 is a class above its previous model. Definitely worth purchasing.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    edited May 2011
    Wow. First, thanks for doing the homework for all of us, and second, thanks for posting your findings. Really impressive.

    Being the owner of a 2009 Civic, I would like to know the following if it is improved on the 2012 model:

    1) Noise (mainly road noise). You mentioned that it is somewhat quieter, but is it as quiet as, say, the Corolla? Cruze?

    2) Ride quality. The 2009 handles beautifully, but has very stiff ride. When combining ride quality with the noise, going on 40 MPH makes you feel like driving at 65 MPH.!! Some roads have a posted speed limit of 65 and I actually have a hard time to drive that fast. It feels like I'm moving at 90 mph! While in some other vehicles (mainly Toyota) going on 80 mph feels like just 40 mph. It's that quiet and relaxed ride. And even the Accord is much better riding and quieter than the Civic.

    3. The 2009 stereo sucks. Worst quality I've ever heard in a late-model car. the $40 2.1 Speakers on my PC has 10x better sound quality. Is the 2012 improved?

    There are a few more flaws in the 2009 which I wrote about a while ago, some of them are finally improved (like adding remote trunk release on the LX model), they also now have stability control across the board, but some questions I still need answers, and I hope in the near future to take a test drive myself to test all my concerns, and decide if it's worth for me to stay with a Civic.

    Among them:

    - The turning circle in the 2009 is very wide, the Accord and Odyssey are much narrower and thus more flexible.

    - I hate that only the rear lamp comes on when you open any door. I think that the FRONT LAMPS should come on when opening a front door.

    - The door lock / window controls seems redesigned in the 2012. I wonder if the window controls are now finally illuminated at night. And if they have a lighted glove box? and a lighted ignition key ring like on so many Honda's? How about auto ON/OFF headlamps?

    - I would need a sun visor with a sliding extension.

    - I really hate the inside door pull handles. The Elantra's is so nice and comfortable. You can rest your hands and have a good grip while taking a sharp turn... if you know what I mean. But even the Accord is better.

    - When un-buckling yourself while on a speed above 7 mph (I think) the reminder will beep, but will not stop even if you came already to a full stop. The reminder should not behave that way. (Toyota is not better in this regard).

    On the positive side, I think that the engine is an excellent one, sounds very refined, and have a sweet note compared to competitors. I also like the flat rear floor (also found in the Corolla), and it's beyond me why larger sized cars can't do the same (Accord, and most Ford, GM, Chrysler sedans). And the nimble, responsive feel is top-notch.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    edited May 2011
    If it were your intent to do a "fair comparo", per your handle, you would have compared the Civic EX to the Elantra Limited instead of the GLS. They are much closer in price and features (e.g. both have standard moonroofs and alloys), with the Civic EX being about $300 more than the Elantra Limited. You might have found the Elantra Limited to be a better handler than the GLS, with the 17" wheels/tires, and might have liked the leather interior of the Elantra and other features of the Limited.

    If you must compare the Civic EX to the Elantra GLS, note that the price difference is not $2000... it's more like $3000, depending on the options you choose on the Elantra. Another reason to compare trims of the two cars that are more similar in price and features.

    I recently drove an Elantra GLS for a couple of days and I have to say my experience does not match yours in a number of respects. Now, I did not drive my rental Elantra at 3x the limit. I think that kind of driving is not only dangerous, but also I doubt the folks at Avis would appreciate my abusing their nearly-new rental like that (I expect most dealers wouldn't be too happy with someone driving a demo car like that either). In normal city and highway driving, I found the GLS to be very quiet (including wind, engine, and road noise), with a very smooth ride and transmission and very comfortable driving position. I found no cases where a bump pounded me "in the kidneys". The main issue I had with the car was the steering felt a little "loose", although it did track straight. I wouldn't be surprised if the Civic's steering is firmer, based on my experiences with past Civics and other Hondas. I got over 33 mpg on my rental, which included city and highway driving and some very heavy traffic with long waits. I thought that was quite good given the conditions, which were real-world for that city (Austin).

    If the rear seat of the Civic is more roomy than the Elantra's, that would be really great, as I found the Elantra has more rear seat leg room than some mid-sized cars. That would mean a huge increase in rear seat room for the Civic compared to 2011. I can't wait to check that out, as that is an important criterion for me.

    If the Civic is indeed as great as you say it is, with a roomier back seat than the Elantra's, quieter interior than the Elantra, better FE than the Elantra, and handling that allows it to easily navigate curves at 3x the posted limits, I'll definitely have to check out the Civic LX. $3000 is a big difference to me when buying an economy car, so I would have to go with the Civic LX vs. EX.

    p.s. FYI, the 200 is not a compact, but a mid-sized car. The Fiesta is a sub-compact. Again, it's good to compare like-to-like in these comparos.
  • bb49bb49 Posts: 20
    I find it hard to believe that both dealers let you drive off with both cars without having a sales person present in the car--I have test driven cars for over 30 years and I have never been allowed to test drive a new car without a sales person present. I have driven the Elantra limited and I did not find the ride to be as harsh as you claim--nor did I find it to be particularly noisy for this class of vehicle. Furthermore, you should have compared the Elantra Limited to EX rather than the lower trim GLS. That being said, I would not find it hard to believe that the Civic may be a better driver's car --however, for most buyers in this class (who would not push the car at 3x the speed limit) I think features and value would place the Elantra ahead of the Civic (ie. the Elantra Limited offers a backup camera, a 6 speed automatic with manual shift, heated seats, turn signals in the mirrors, proximity keys, start stop button--all of these features are not even available on the Civic). I have owned many Hondas over the years and from my experience the metal is very thin as my cars are very easily dented by careless other drivers--so unless Honda has changed the thickness of the metal in the new Civic I would think this would would dent just as easily.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    I would love to know how ALG can begin to believe that an Elantra would have better resale value than a Civic?

    They should attend an auction sometime!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    edited May 2011
    Actually, the best "safety option" is to not use your cell phone while driving!

    If you just have to talk and drive at the same time,, an inexpensive earpiece will work just fine.

    A lot of us find no need for a factory bluetooth but if you must have one there are a lot of aftermarket units out there.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    edited May 2011
    This is EXACTLY why no smart store would ever allow a solo test drive!

    Abusing a car for 3 hours and driving it over 100 miles is nuts and that is what you get when a salesperson isn't along to control things.

    And, people that do this rarely buy anything!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,868
    Around here, you are offered one of two options:
    - extended test drive with a salesperson in the car, or
    - test drive by yourself on a pre-mapped route, and you sign a form saying you will take it only on that route.

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  • temj12temj12 Posts: 450
    This tells me why a sales rep always goes with me on a test drive. You obviously did not think about the person who is going to buy this "new" car that you tested. After reading this, I don't think I will buy another new car with miles on it. Can you imagine someone buying a new car that had been treated like this right off the lot? I think you were thinking about yourselves and not the person who is going to buy that car and pay 3 to 5 years for it.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    Well, driving it in that manner probably didn't "hurt" anything but still, it shows no respect for the dealer or the person who will be buying it.

    On test drives, I wouldn't allow that kind of abuse and if the driver insisted on doing things like that I would have them pull the car over and their driving was done.

    Probably happened three or four times in 14 years to me. I think most people knew better.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Yes, ALG obviously knows nothing about residual values on cars. It's only their business.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Wow, I have never had to sign a form to test drive a car. Standard practice here in MN is for the dealer to make a photocopy of your driver's license. I've been able to take many cars out by myself, but in many cases the sales rep goes along. And that's fine with me--it is the dealer's car after all--as long as they let me drive it on the route I want (a short one, but with a variety of road surfaces, curves, and city + freeway). I always tell them my intentions and they often say, "Oh yeah, I suggest to my customers that they drive on that road" (re a specific road near me that has lots of ruts and curves and a 50 mph limit, so a good test of suspension).

    The worst test drive I ever had was at an open house for the then-new Fit (1st generation). There was a VERY short prescribed course, basically a square of a few blocks, all 30-35 mph smooth city streets. I asked the sales rep if I could take it on the freeway for a bit, and he said "Sure, I'd like to see how it does on the freeway myself." So we did. Would have been a worthless test drive otherwise.

    I've found being courteous and up front with sales reps can get you a long ways on a test drive (literally).
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    edited May 2011
    That may well be but I know just how "soft" Korean cars are in the used car market and I am taking about Real World Expereince and not some number crunching or guessing.

    Now, I've been retired for a year but I can't imagine the market had done a massive flip flop in that time!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    I had a "course" that I took people on that included a bit of everything.

    Sometimes I would get special requests and some of thes were pretty strange like finding a parking lot and making u turns with the steering wheel locked.

    I thought I was in a Tilt O Whirl!

    I didn't put up with overally aggressive driving.

    The people who literally scared me to death were some of the people new to our country. how they ever got licences was beyond me. I wouldn't let these people on the freeway. Two or three times I had to grab the steering wheel.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,710
    Actually it has. I read an article in WSJ this week about the used car market and how prices have soared. I check the prices on my cars every now and then; they include two Hyundais now. The 2004 Elantra hasn't lost any value in over 2 years; the 2007 Sonata is worth almost what I paid for it 18 months ago, and it has 15,000 more miles now.

    And given the general improvement in some of Honda's competitors over the past few years, and the fact the Civic went nearly 6 years in between redesigns, it should not be a shock that the Civic is no longer the resale champ. Maybe ALG will anoint the new 2012 Civic as #1 in the compact class now, who knows. If they do, I'm sure you'll say the same things about ALG's numbers not meaning anything. ;)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,679
    Except....there can be a huge difference between what somebody says a car is "worth" than what they can actually sell it for!

    If you really think your 2004 Hyundai is worth the same as it was two years ago, you are truly dreaming!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,868
    You don't have to sign anything if the salesperson goes with you on the test drive.

    The form is only if you want to do a solo test drive, and you're just signing to say that you'll follow the mapped route and not abuse the vehicle, etc., while you're out on the drive. This last time, I didn't care if the salesperson went with me or not, but decided to sign the form & go alone because it was a small dealership, and there were several customers on the lot, and I didn't want to take the salesperson away from them just to monitor me. The route had residential, business, and highway driving, so that was fine by me.

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