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2012 Honda Civic

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  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    when we went car shopping a year or so ago we test drove a Subaru. We signed a form that gave us permission to test drive the car without a salesperson for one hour. Did not give us any routes to follow.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    I guess I will have to drive the 2012 Civic to see for myself if the massive refinement from the 2006 thru 2011 models to the 2012 you noted is actually evident to me. I will also drive an Elantra. With regard to the hail damage, while waiting in long lines for insurance adjustment I saw pretty much every make represented all with mostly large amounts of damage. I can only recount my own story and the cars in question were literally parked less than 10 feet from each other. I never thought I would look upon a mid-90's Dodge product as a paragon of quality (although after 14 years of ownership it is pretty good in that respect) but compared to our Civic it was incredibly hail resistant and, as I stated, suffered minimal shallow dents. But the Honda!!! Terrible.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I guess I was not clear. I have never signed any form for ANY kind of test drive, including solo's. Just provide proof that I am licensed. And I've done dozens of those over the years. Maybe laws or dealer practices are different in MN than where you live.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,914
    I saw a parking lot full of hail damaged cars and some were much worse than others and the makes and models didn't seem to matter.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,914
    Some stores are sloppy about sold test drives. After reading about a three hour 100 mile abusive test drive, hopefully you can see why?

    We once had a customer with the gall to drive a car from another store to our store so he could test drive one of ours. We ended up selling him a car.

    Four hours later, we called that other store and asked them to come get their car. Somehow, it left our lot wth our licence plate frames installed on it!
  • faircomparofaircomparo Posts: 6
    edited May 2011
    Actually, my friend bought the Honda, so no damage done to the Honda dealer. My friend was actually going to by the Elantra until he went on this test drive. For those who complained about the abuse we gave both these cars on our test drive, both the Honda and Elantra sales people were asked if we could test the cars back to back on an exhaustive test. The Hyandai sales person said he normally goes on the test drive but since we wanted to test both cars he rathered we went alone so "he wouldn't know what we did on our test drive." his words not mine. We did go for longer than he thought, but he knew he didn't specify a time limit. We had a good talk to him on our return and talked to him about what we found. He said he had taken the new Civic on a test drive himself a couple of days earlier when they had first arrived at the adjacent Honda dealership. He told us straight out that he also agreed with us "that the new Civic was a better drivers car than the Elantra, but that the Elantra had more features for $2000 less money." [The Elantra by the way was a demonstrator car with nearly 500 miles on it. The Honda however was brand new with only 10 miles on it before we drove and then bought it.]

    The Civic has now been owned for one week and is averaging 37.5mpg on mixed hwy/city driving. (yes it is been driven carefully now) My friend said he enjoys driving the car and loved going on a long drive through the country just for the fun of driving it. He liked the look of the Elantra better and that along with price and warranty were the reasons for his initial decision. But after driving both over the tests we put them through he had and still has no regrets whatsoever that he bought the Civic, and the Civic's looks are growing on him!
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Yeah, some cars were more/less damaged depending on which part of town they were in when the storm hit BUT in my case both were 10 feet apart and I can assure you the Honda took the much larger hit (pun intended!). Very thin sheet metal on at least the trunk lid, hood, and roof surfaces. Even damaged along the flanks of the car. So, if the intent was to "prove" that all kinds of cars can be damaged from severe hail that much is true but when the Honda looked like the cars on that recent TV commercial (for an insurance company) where a lawn tractor runs through a gravel pit peppering two cars with thrown gravel and the Dodge survived intact for the most part...well, no one will convince me the Honda isn't inferior as far as sheet metal integrity. End of "my" story.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,914
    edited May 2011
    About ten years ago, a freak hailstorm hit our area. It missed our store but hit a nearby Honda dealer. Cars were literally parked side by side. Some cars had pretty bad damage and others were barely affected. All were Hondas so please explain that one!

    If the truth be known I would think that sheet metal thickness isn't going to vary much between different makes of cars.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,914
    edited May 2011
    In my 14 years of selling Hondas, we did let a few people out on their own but I NEVER had someone leave for three hours. The words "exhaustive test" would have waved red flags at me.

    Most people that do things like that are non serious joyriders or strokes.

    You were the exception and I still think what you did was over the top even though the car was sold.

    100 miles? Three hours? 90 MPH? Sorry, unnecessary, abusive and WAY over the top!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    edited May 2011
    I checked out a 2012 LX at my local dealer today. Did not drive it because I won't be buying a car until next year, and didn't want to waste the sales rep's time. My impressions:

    * Comfortable driving position, although the wheel doesn't tilt up quite as much as I'd like. Also would like a little more thigh support (common issue with single-lever height adjusters).

    * Cloth looked nice but seemed kinda thin compared to Civics of yore.

    * Lots of hard grey plastic on the dash. Decent quality plastic, but a step below interiors of competitors such as Cruze, Focus, Mazda3, and Elantra.

    * Snazzy display for radio and other functions. Also could be distracting to the driver, IMO. Position was nice, though--in the instrument binnacle vs. in the center of the dash. I wonder how visible it is to the front passenger?

    * Plastic wheel was thick and has audio, computer, and cruise controls.

    * Armrests were padded with cloth, albeit thinly.

    * Vanity mirrors not illuminated.

    * Rear seat legroom was more than Cruze, maybe a tad more than Focus, and less than Elantra and Jetta. In the sit-behind-me test (I'm 5'9-1/2"), my ankles hit the bottom of the front seat before my thighs were resting fully on the seat, i.e. "knees in the air" syndrome. Good foot space though. No rear center armrest as most competitors have. Rear seat only folds in one piece--need to get the EX for 60/40 (which most competitors have standard). Headroom was fine in back (and in front).

    * Glove box seemed big, but lid falls open with a "clunk" (not damped).

    * Doors close with a nice "thunk".

    * Plastic wheel covers looked OK on the 15" wheels (down from 16" on the 2011 Civic).

    * Trunk was roomy. Lid has conventional hinges vs. struts (seems more and more new cars are moving back to the cheaper hinges).

    Overall, an improvement over the 2011 Civic, especially in rear seat room and some added features such as ESC and audio controls on the wheel. Also improved fuel economy. But considering it's about $1000 more than an Elantra GLS that has 16" alloys, Bluetooth, XM radio, roomier back seat with center armrest, nicer dash and door panels, heated mirrors, illuminated vanity mirrors, rear disc brakes, one more cog in the AT, 60/40 rear seat, and a longer warranty, the value proposition is questionable. Will have to wait until a test drive to see if the everyday driving dynamics make up for the difference.
  • faircomparofaircomparo Posts: 6
    edited May 2011
    Great sitting review of the new Civic! You're summary of info is correct for the 2012 LX except for rear seat leg room. We looked at a LX Civic and took it on a test drive before exchanging it for an EX. The LX is definatly outclassed by its competition for features and even though it drives well, it's outclassed by its better equipped sibling the EX. [Just a note of comparison the EX is quiter to drive than the LX]

    When we had both the '11 Elantra and '12 Civic parked side by side we slid both front seats all the way back as far as they would go to compare seat room. The Civic had about 1.5" more legroom than the Elantra in the back seat. Sitting in the back my knees just cleared the Elantra's front seat while I had a couple of inches to spare in the Civic. However, the Elantra had about 2" more room in the front seats. But the Civic's rear seats like it's front seats were more comfortable to sit in than the Elantra's. The front seat room in the Civic was fine I'd say for a 6' 6" driver while the Elantra could possibly be comfortable for a 6' 10" driver. I think the Civic got the balance just right for the average height range of drivers for both front and rear occupants. The new '12 Civic has more cabin room overall than the '11 model. This is substantiated by the new models interior cabin dimensions.

    My only wish was that the LX and EX both had a better combination of cabin materials and a better overall dash. But interestingly, instrumentation design and erogonomics were better in the Civic than in the Elantra. But as far as first impressions go the Elantra wins. However, drive both for a while and try adjusting the controls while driving the Elantra it's not as easy to do as it is in the Civic which wins for perfect placement of everything. It may not look as pretty but it is sure functional. Controls are all at correct height, gauges are sweet and everything is simple to use. Not so for the Elantra, Hyandai has placed form over function in the Elantra's cabin. It's like they had an item check list and yes everything is there, it looks initially a nice design until you try using while driving. It's like they forgot the road test it. You will have to test both cars together or as closly as possible to see which car you like more. But you must road test both to find the Civic's hidden qualities. I've now read a few professional reviews and they're saying simlar things, that the '12 Civic is a better overall car than the Elantra.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    When we had both the '11 Elantra and '12 Civic parked side by side we slid both front seats all the way back as far as they would go to compare seat room.

    IMO that is not a good way to test rear seat room. The only reason the Elantra has less rear seat room based on how you did the test is because its front seat moves back several inches farther than on the Civic!

    I test rear seat room by adjusting the driver's seat so it is comfortable for me, then I sit in the left back seat. (My wife is shorter than I am.) That tells me how much USABLE rear seat room there is. Based on that test, the Elantra has more rear seat room than the Civic.

    Can you please post the links to the professional reviews of the Civic you've seen? I haven't seen any yet. Thanks.
  • faircomparofaircomparo Posts: 6
    edited May 2011
    Actually when I set both cars to my comfortable driving position there was still an extra inch of room in the 2012 Honda Civic compared to the 2011 Hyundai Elantra. It's just that the 2012 Civic is a bigger car than it's predecessor.

    Below are a few professional reviews of the new Honda Civic 2012 lineup that points out some of the things I've been saying. They also list it's failings in terms of looks that seem to be every reviewers downer. The design grows on you I've found much like the 2008 Honda Accords design has over the past 4 years.

    The first one is from Automobile Magazine that compares the Focus, Civic, and Elantra. They finish in that order too.

    http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1104_2012_honda_civic_meets_2011_hyu- - - - - - - - - - ndai_elantra_and_2012_ford_focus/index.html

    Cars.com has a very good review of the 2012 Civic and it's list of new features

    http://www.cars.com/honda/civic/2012/reviews/?revid=57087

    Car and Driver

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/11q2/2012_honda_civic_si-first_drive_rev- - - - - - - - iew

    Road and Track

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/impressions/2012-honda-civic

    Business Week

    http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/apr2011/bw20110419_031505.htm

    Motor Trend

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1104_2012_honda_civic_drive/index.htm- - - - - - l

    Autoblog

    http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/20/2012-honda-civic-sedan-and-coupe-first-drive-- - - - - review/

    Autoweek

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20110420/CARREVIEWS/110429984

    Popular Mechanics

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/drives/2012-honda-civic-test-drive
  • The 2012 Civic is a much quiter more refined driver than the 06-11 model. The road noise is more subdued and then wind noise is greatly reduced. We found driving at high speed relaxed and in line with the Focus and Cruze. But the Toyota 2012 Corolla seemed quieter at speed.

    Ride quality also is up to par with the best in class Ford Focus and Mazda 3. Actually, the Civic can be driven just as fast and is a little more comfortable over the bumps and bad surfaces than the Focus. The suspension is softer but still provides ample control and grip. Some may complain about The electric steering, it's not as direct as the '11 model but I found it drove just as good ans was more composed over rough roads. On the freeway is was definitely way more relaxed to drive. Just drove straight and cornered with a new found ease. Didn't rail or wander like the '11 tended to want to do. But there is a little more body roll, but nothing bad or unnatural.

    The sound system in the 2012 Civic EX is way better. There is a high fidelity to the sound. The Elantra's sounded flat. The 160w stereo was ample to provide clear highs and solid but not thumping bass.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    By "extra inch of room", what do you mean? Do you mean space between knees and front seat back? That is immaterial to me, as long as the knees aren't hitting the seat. What is important is how far I can stretch my legs out, are my thighs fully supported, and is there enough toe space. The big difference I found between the Civic and Elantra in the rear is that there was enough stretch-out space in the Elantra so my thighs were supported, and my ankles weren't pressed into the front seat to do it. Maybe its rear seat is higher than the Civic's? Both had sufficient toe space and knee space.

    Thanks for posting all the reviews. But in the Automobile Magazine comparo, I don't see where they score the Civic 2nd. I only see where they give their overall top pick, the Focus. It was probably the most useful review though... some of them seemed as if they didn't drive the car at all, or if so didn't say much about their experience.

    I think the BusinessWeek review summed it up best:

    The bottom line: Buying a Honda Civic used to be a no-brainer. These days it pays to comparison shop and do some test-drives before signing on the dotted line.
  • I cannot understand why everybody is talking up Honda so much. I can tell, from being a soon to be ex-owner of a 7th Gen, 2003 LX, manual, there is much that stinks about Honda anymore.

    First the new car. Why did they not tweak the engine for at least 10-15 HP and TQ?

    Where is the 6 speed auto that Ford and Chevy now have?

    Why is the interior even more plastic-laden then previously?

    Its a dud. I don't care what they say about better MPG, my 2003 when brand new could easily do high 30's to low 40's going 65-80MPH. How have they improved on this? The leg room between my 7th Gen and the 8th Gen is not even close, I have more.

    While the manual on the 8th Gen is quicker then mine, the auto is not. Yet if should be given that is has 5 forward gears, just like my manual, and 20 more horsepower. Why the hell can't Honda engineer an auto or a manual that does not constantly leave you flat footed when you need the power most, merging on the highway, or passing on a two lane road. The gear splits need to be closer and lower geared on each until overdrive. Whats the point of having a 5 speed automatic that does not have much better splits, such as 30 in first, 50 in second, 80 in third etc., etc. This would give the car so much better power in the passing and merging scenario. Rather its now 36 in 1st, like 67 in 2nd, 100 in 3rd, etc. Same with the manual BTW. A bunch of moronic engineers.

    Also, any of you who might have owned a 7th Gen, they suck. They are full of problems. Transmission(Auto and Manual), Exhaust Manifold Cracking, easily warped front brake rotors. I can say that it still beats the new cars hands down for the quality of cloth on the seats and the slick dash, at least until the carpet on the doors falls off from inferior bonding agent.

    I really think you all should think real hard before going with a Honda now. I am not joking by saying that it feels like these guys have been a 21st century hangover, and have no clue how to get out of it.

    The 8th Gen is a buggy mess. With all the new electronics, the thing gives false readings all over the place, on the OBD 2 indicator. I really think it won the car of the year in 2006 only because everybody else had inferior vehicles in that year.

    As for me, I am considering the new Focus, Elentra, not any GM stuff though. If you want a good Honda, buy a 2000 or before, they really do last a long time I have heard.

    MRT
  • sivicmansivicman Posts: 32
    I have to agree with you on a lot of things. First where is the direct-injection engine? Second where is the 6-speed auto or manual. Honda use to be the fuel mileage king, but now they struggle to get 30's on the hwy. Why and the hell don't they offer that 2.2L diesel here that gets 65 mpg? Who cares if it don't meet California emissions, what about the rest of us in the other 49 states. Don't get me wrong I love Honda's and have been an avid fan since 1987 (my first) but they don't offer anything to get me in their showroom right now. Their prices continue to rise while decontenting continues to get worse.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    OK... the user name"isellhondas" is explaination enough for me. I know what I saw and nobody, even (especially!) a Honda salesman/person can convince me otherwise. There isn't a reason two cars so close together wouldn't experience the same amount of hail hitting each, neither was shielded, totally or partially, by a shrub, tree, or building overhang and the Honda got the worst of it and the only reason I can think of is sheetmetal thickness or lack thereof.
  • rustumrustum Posts: 100
    Inside line did the comparison. They clear indicated Civic is still the best in terms of Engine and suspension. But Honda is falling behind price per content spec. I am kinda bit disappointed in Elantra in that comparison. It is time for Hyundai to get Engine and Suspension as good as Honda. Honda may be trying to compete with the price by cheapening interior.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    How is 148 hp and 29/40 mpg from the same displacement as the Civic's engine inferior?

    Cheapening of the Civic's interior has been going on for several generations. But it's not just Honda doing it. Unfortunately for Honda, several competitors such as Chevy, Ford, Mazda, and Hyundai have stepped up their game interior-wise while Honda has been cutting corners.
  • rustumrustum Posts: 100
    Hi Becky,
    I do not know. That is what insideline comparison found out. They still rated Civic Engine and suspension better. I do not think so Elantra engine is inferior. I guess, they just liked rev happy Civic engine better. But Elantra is ahead of Civic when it comes to interior and features for less price.
  • sivicmansivicman Posts: 32
    "How is 148 hp and 29/40 mpg from the same displacement as the Civic's engine inferior?"

    I've been reading some of the posts over on the Elantra forum and the owners aren't to happy with the 23-25 mpg in the city they have been getting in their 2011's. I would hope at some point Hyundai would put a direct-injection engine in the Elantra so those advertised mpg's were more obtainable.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I would not take a couple of cases as indicative of overall FE of any car.

    I got over 33 mpg on a 2011 Elantra in mostly heavy traffic in Austin recently. YMMV. Some people have a much heavier foot than others.
  • iwemeadaiwemeada Posts: 3
    Hi Friensds,
    I bought Civic 2012 Sedan, but i can only find the floormats for 2011 model, will it fit the 2012 Model, and what material is recommended in Seattle area, raining 9 months in a year. :confuse:

    Thanks everybody!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Did you get the DX? All other trims come with factory floormats.

    If you got the DX, your best bet might be to get them direct from the dealer (they must be able to order some for you), or from a company that specializes in made-to-fit mats (good option if you want all-weather mats), or just get basic mats from your local discount store and trim-to-fit.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,914
    I guess you are determined that Hondas suffer more hail damage than other cars do.

    Think whatever you want. I'm retired and have no skin in the game.

    I think if the sheet metal were measured for thickness they would probably be close to the same.

    All modern cars have tinfoil for sheetmetal now. They do this to reduce weight and to insure the crumple zones work as they should.
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    Yesterday I went to the dealer to see in person the new 2012 Civic. I did not drive, just made an "inspection"... While there is a lot to like about the 2012, I also found several things that Honda took away from previous versions (2006-2011).

    Among them:

    The cup holders lost the sliding cover, which I actually LOVE in my 2009. Now the cup holders are exposed and very not elegant.

    Illuminated window switches are on the EX models only, but not on the LX (which have driver only, as on the 2009). In general, the EX has nicer trim inside, more chrome, etc.

    Honda also did away with the chrome covering part on the shifter. It's now a black plastic instead, and makes it look more cheap.

    The 2009 lacks in storage bins, and the 2 tiny bins on the left side of the steering wheel can not be closed, it is open and exposed. But on the 2012 they eliminated them all completely. No storage bins, cubbies, nothing! (the 2 bins are replaced with some stability control switches). And the lower bin at the bottom of the door is also smaller from the already small on the previous versions!

    Kudos to Toyota and Honda that they manage to design the rear seat without the HUMP in the floor, so even the middle passenger can stretch his/her legs comfortably. Unlike most other manufacturers, which for some reason they are unable to figure out how to do away with the transmission hump. Even in larger sedans.
  • targettuningtargettuning Posts: 1,371
    Well, I am damn sure that our 2006 Civic suffered much more hail damage than a 1995 Dodge Stratus not once (during the first hail storm both cars were exposed to side by side three years ago this August) but once again two weeks ago this Thursday when a F-1 Tornado struck about three miles from our home. Once again the same cars were hit with pea or larger sized hail driven by 65-70 mph winds. Guess what? the Honda AGAIN suffered $1200.00 in dent damage and the Stratus???? Nothing new. So, maybe once but not twice. I've seen it twice now so I am beyond convincing otherwise.
  • civilguy1civilguy1 Posts: 1
    Does anyone know what the Econ button does behind the scenes? I know it supposedly reduces power to save on gas. But I am curious how does it reduce power? Does it control the flow of fuel? Or does it use less than four cylinders? Or is it just fancy button with psychological effects?

    I have driven the car the first two weeks with the Econ button on and have been driving the past couple of weeks with it off. The terrain is the same I pretty much drive it back and forth to the office. I get exactly the same mpg either way.
  • delmar1delmar1 Posts: 744
    I don't know the details....but I believe it also alters the use of the air conditioning when at a stop light. So it has less drag and lowering fuel consumption.

    When I drive in the Econ mode....it appears that the shift points are different when I am on the same route.

    My MPG improved by about 2mpg by using the Econ mode for in city driving.
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