Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Here's a pic someone posted from Tacoma last week. Avanti expert John Hull with Sherana and Nancy Egbert, daughters of Studebaker president Sherwood Egbert, who ran the company from 1961-63. People like me who like '60's Studebakers look at their father as almost like Elvis; a larger-than-life figure. I think the entire line of cars and trucks got more appealing under his leadership. He was ill with cancer the last year or so of his leadership and died in 1969 at only 49 years of age. NOTE: This '64 Avanti would have glass headlight covers but they're invisible in this picture.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

That color looks to me to be Blue Mist, a '63 color. I can't remember a light metallic blue in '62. Still, I like the color. I also like whitewalls on Champs for some reason.

In a short bed, like this vehicle, I prefer the old-style Studebaker bed with fenders on the outside. With the wide bed like this truck has, I much-prefer the long bed.

Even though they had the carrying capacity of any other full-size truck, there was a mid-size truck vibe going on, styling-wise I think. I know people who can't stand the wider bed, and I understand that. It's more-balanced looking on the long bed I think. The styling-feature lines match the cab pretty well I always thought though.

I could very much enjoy a Champ. I grew up Chevy but I never thought the '60-66 Chevy pickups were anything to look at, with their thumb-sized taillights and especially those lumps on the top of the hood of the '60-61 models.

Champs were America's lowest-priced pickup.

And imidazol, I do find that '63 Lark with 9,800 miles intriguing.

I know where there's one of these Champ pickups sitting in a warehouse. It's a 6 cylinder, though.

uplanderguy

Worst area for rust on Champs is the back of the cab corners.

A friend of mine has a '64 long-wheelbase Champ, wide bed, red, that he's owned for something like 45 years. It's a reliable, rust-free vehicle. V8 with 4-speed. The dealer in Akron, OH where he worked as a young man, bought it out at South Bend new in a dealer-driveaway thing.

fintail

Pretty color on that Champ. I am sure it will bring 125%+ of real world value. Denworks does put together a nice package compared to many flippers - and their results reflect it.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

That color looks to me to be Blue Mist, a '63 color.

I just don't recall anything Studebaker had in colors being that bright. They were more Midwest oriented and drab blue-greens and greens.

Does accurate color mean anything to value?

Mr_Shiftright

Sure. Dirty brown does not outsell red. But how much it all matters is hardly quantitatively derived. It's a guess.

imidazol97

I noticed a couple posters liked the blue, which looks almost metallic on my screen, even though it's not year correct. I believe they both felt it was a good color for the vehicle and enhanced its value.

I know when I see a sedan or hardtop that's in a color I know is not an original color, it irks me. Same for wheels and tires that are "modern" or "urban."

I also am oriented toward pickup trucks of that era being farm vehicles, while for a long time pickups have been sedan replacements as well. I think in terms of the farmer colors that were on many cars and pickups (and larger trucks). I grew up on a farm and learned to drive old pickups early on to ferry drinks or food to the jobbers doing work for us.

fintail

When I was a kid, my dad had a friend who had a Champ, and it was a non-metallic pastel kind of blue/turquoise color, not dissimilar to my fintail. It was not a restored car, and I assume an original color.

As an aside, the guy also had an immaculate early 60s Dodge van that he drove everywhere - he summered up here and wintered in California, and would drive it back and forth - this was in the 90s.

ab348

In '62 Studebaker had a paint called Metallic Green that according to the paint chip chart looked to me more like a teal color. Maybe that is what this has. If it is a repaint then they would have had to pull the engine and strip the firewall to do in there, repaint the dash and the other painted parts of the inside of the cab, remove the bed to do the inside bottom corners of the cab, etc., unless it was a full nut and bolt restore, which this doesn't seem to be.

uplanderguy

I had a hunch for some reason, that Studebaker's car colors didn't carry over to the truck line. As an example, I have seen "Omaha Orange" mentioned on '63 and '64 trucks which was not a car color. Here's chips for the '62 trucks. The blue they show I'm pretty sure I remember as being a non-metallic lighter blue than the truck in BaT.

For people wanting a Studebaker truck who know Studebakers, I think originality/authenticity trumps all (I'm rather like that). Those things can be trumpeted in an ad and non-authentic stuff can't, of course. I think the short bed might hurt value on this truck.

https://www.ebay.com/i/401519472866?chn=ps

uplanderguy

I always liked this photo of the poster's grandfather picking up his new '62 Champ in South Bend in the early winter of '61. Note the Larks, Hawks, and bigger Stude trucks in the storage lot behind:

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=57805&d=1472402185

fintail

Can't view the pic, need to be logged in.

I think my dad's friend's Champ was Riviera Blue.

uplanderguy

Sorry, can't figure out a way to display the pic otherwise.

It's a darkish green '62 long, wide-bed Champ, snow tires on back, at a gas pump at a Stude storage lot in South Bend--snow on the ground; Larks, Champs, Hawks, and Transtars in the background; a fellow's grandfather from Iowa standing next to the Champ he'd bought and was picking up there. He was a beekeeper.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

Sorry, can't figure out a way to display the pic otherwise..

Can you use right-click on the picture to "Save image as" on your computer. Then upload it into the post by going to that picture and clicking on it to upload it?

Another method is to us Snagit or another screencapture (alt button then-prt scrn or ctrl-prt scrn buttons)
and save that into a program (Microsoft paint) where it can be saved as a file for upload?

Sounds like a neat photo from long ago.

uplanderguy

uplanderguy

Worked, thanks!

I believe that is 1962 "Glade Green".

uplanderguy

Can anybody else see the Champ pic now?

fintail

Yep I see it. Those Cruisers in the background somewhat resemble fintails.

ab348

Huh, snow tires installed at the factory.

fintail

Here's something Studebaker-related. I am visiting a friend in Chicago at the beginning of November, and will have many free days after. I plan to visit the Studebaker museum in South Bend, along with A-C-D, the motorhome/RV hall of fame, and others. Should be a fun car-themed trip.

uplanderguy

Good for you! While I love the Stude museum (check out the 'Avanti Guest House' across the street), A-C-D is awesome, and the museum right behind it (name escapes me) is a good one too. That's a fair amount of miles from Chicago. Supposedly one of the absolute best car museums in the country is the Gilmore, which is near Kalamazoo, MI--not far from South Bend in the scheme of things. I've not been there but understand it takes a couple days. The Stude museum has a lot of horse-drawn carriages displayed--more than I would--but I guess they are trying to cover that the Corporation started in 1852. The "Club Room" upstairs has a photo of my hometown Stude dealer from 1958 hanging on a bulletin board--and no, it wasn't my idea! LOL

I assume you'd be coming in from Chicago on the Indiana Toll Road, but on Route 2, 15 miles west of South Bend is the Navistar Proving Ground, which had been Studebaker's. The 'clubhouse' is still very visible from the road, and the original Studebaker brick gate posts are still there. It's floodlit at night. The clubhouse was used in the background of a lot of Studebaker brochure photos, well into the sixties. Sherwood Egbert and his family lived there. That's where "STUDEBAKER" is spelled out in the trees from the air.

I had never visited the RV Hall of Fame until I went with friends of mine who own an RV. I enjoyed it more than I thought I would have.

A tour of Studebaker International in South Bend, parts place located in the enormous building where Studebaker built WWII airplane engines, would be fun for you, but they are in the process of moving. What a daunting task. The parts and business have been sold and are moving nearer Indianapolis. The current owners seems like good folks and were employees of the former owner, but I'm sad to see the factory stock of parts leave South Bend.

uplanderguy

Yep I see it. Those Cruisers in the background somewhat resemble fintails.

I have seen a period photo of a warehouse in South Bend full of Benzes. Somewhere I seem to remember, but am fuzzy on this, that in that time period, all Benzes sold in the U.S. went through South Bend.

The factory pics and related stories make me realize that although Studebaker seemed like a small car company, a small car company is still a very large company, LOL.

Like the beekeeper's Champ, above, my former '63 Lark Daytona Skytop was a factory delivery. You'd fly in, or come in on the train, and Studebaker would send somebody to pick you up to take delivery, with a plant tour if you were interested.

uplanderguy

At the Stude Museum, don't forget to tour the basement. Seriously. That's their 'overflow' storage--many vehicles there.

fintail

Yep, I will be driving in, spending a few days in IN and OH before going up to Michigan. I might have time to stop in Kalamazoo but I am not sure - I definitely want to see the Henry Ford museum facilities. I am also planning on stopping at Volo in IL - I have seen their classified ads since I was a kid and it is on the way, and might check out the H-D museum in Milwaukee - I like bikes, but H-Ds aren't my favorite, so I am not sure yet. I will have ample but not infinite time. The RV hall of fame looks pretty cool - I know Elkhart was maybe the heart of the conversion van industry, and those combined with interesting old motorhomes should make for a fun stop. Right now I am looking to leave Chicago early-ish in the morning, get to Stude when they open, and then check out the RV museum later in the day.

Those parts will still be available, right?

I am not sure about the old MB distribution network, but maybe not all dealers got their stock from Stude? There seems to have been agencies with Stude links, and also standalone dealers - Seattle had one of the latter started in the late 50s. The original dealer of the fintail had been a Packard dealer (the dealership still exists, in its 1920s building), but I don't know when they went to MB. MB still has a similar delivery setup in Germany - you can pick up at the factory, get a tour if you want, they even provide a night in a hotel.

uplanderguy said:

Good for you! While I love the Stude museum (check out the 'Avanti Guest House' across the street), A-C-D is awesome, and the museum right behind it (name escapes me) is a good one too. That's a fair amount of miles from Chicago. Supposedly one of the absolute best car museums in the country is the Gilmore, which is near Kalamazoo, MI--not far from South Bend in the scheme of things. I've not been there but understand it takes a couple days.

A tour of Studebaker International in South Bend, parts place located in the enormous building where Studebaker built WWII airplane engines, would be fun for you, but they are in the process of moving. What a daunting task. The parts and business have been sold and are moving nearer Indianapolis. The current owners seems like good folks and were employees of the former owner, but I'm sad to see the factory stock of parts leave South Bend.

ab348

fintail said:

Yep, I will be driving in, spending a few days in IN and OH before going up to Michigan. I might have time to stop in Kalamazoo but I am not sure - I definitely want to see the Henry Ford museum facilities. I am also planning on stopping at Volo in IL - I have seen their classified ads since I was a kid and it is on the way, and might check out the H-D museum in Milwaukee - I like bikes, but H-Ds aren't my favorite, so I am not sure yet. I will have ample but not infinite time. The RV hall of fame looks pretty cool - I know Elkhart was maybe the heart of the conversion van industry, and those combined with interesting old motorhomes should make for a fun stop. Right now I am looking to leave Chicago early-ish in the morning, get to Stude when they open, and then check out the RV museum later in the day.

Oddly enough I have been to a few of those places. The Henry Ford is wonderful and you should budget close to a day. It isn't an automotive museum as much as it is a transportation and Americana museum. I really enjoyed it. I drove through Kalamazoo years ago but I was unaware of the Gilmore so instead I went on to Battle Creek and did the Kellogg cereal factory tour (this was mid-80s) which was a homage to one I had when I was a little kid in the early '60s in London, Ont.. OK but not anything special. A few years later I was in Milwaukee for a week and as part of the conference I got a very good tour of the H-D engine plant which was fascinating. I never knew that those engines actually run fairly quietly when they are being tested at the end of the process and run on either propane or natural gas and exhausted to the outside.

fintail

I've budgeted a full day for Ford, as it appears to be enormous indeed. Maybe not the best time to be in the area, but I have the free time, I don't mind cool weather, and it is a cheap trip.

It seems many H-Ds aren't too irritating when new, it is the owners who muck them up.

berri

IIRC Gilmore is in the country somewhere between Kalamazoo and Grand Rapids. It has a building with post WWII cars, but most of the barns are dedicated to prewar with an emphasis on luxury makes like Pierce Arrow, Cadillac, Packard, etc. I'm more post war, but I truly enjoyed the visit. Some impressive design and chrome! The Ford Museum itself is right by Greenfield Village with its historic buildings and demonstrations. Both are enjoyable places to view. Volo is off the tollway a bit right on the way from ORD to Milwaukee.

fintail

That's something I am not looking forward to - the toll roads.

uplanderguy

The Studebaker parts will still be available, and under the same vendor name, just won't be located in South Bend anymore.

I was last at "the Henry Ford" in 1991 or so. Took my parents up there, and we all very-much enjoyed it. At the time, there was a temporary display on Bill Mitchell of GM Styling, who grew up in our hometown and the wall display mentioned that. There was also a Bessemer railroad car, which was from our hometown so we all especially enjoyed that.

I didn't like Greenfield Village as much, but that's just me. I heard my Mom whisper something to my Dad about my looking not like I was enjoying myself, and hearing my Dad say, "No cars here today", LOL.

The prior time I was at Henry Ford with a friend of mine, was probably around '87. Afterwards, we went to find where the Packard plant was on E. Grand Boulevard. It was scary then and I wouldn't recommend it today, LOL!

uplanderguy

fin, I think in some of the larger cities especially, there were standalone Benz dealers in the Studebaker distributorship years.

uplanderguy

Here's the Studebaker clubhouse at Navistar in New Carlisle, IN, west of South Bend. Looks remarkably unchanged from the sixties brochure photos:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31929081@N08/3087397674

fintail

I've read that anything resembling a Chrysler museum and GM museum has closed to the public, and Ford now has cars representing both. Kind of a contrast to the German makers, who all have museums and public facilities almost resembling theme parks.

Not sure how much ruin-exploring I'll do there, but the Packard plant would be a landmark to see.

uplanderguy

When I was last there, in 1991 or so, the Ford had all makes of cars; even a couple Studebakers. It was really a museum of American car culture; with roadside attraction displays, etc. Very cool. Of course, that's been a long time ago. I remember being awed at the JFK assassination limo, which was actually rebuilt and used until 1977, which for some reason I found shocking.

WPC is closed, last I heard. I was never really aware of a GM museum, which I would've enjoyed.

uplanderguy

If time allows when in South Bend, you might want to go straight down Main St., south, and you'll pass the Studebaker Administration Building just past the railroad underpass--the street address is 635 S. Main. The body building, which is being repurposed, is a gem and one very short block to the west. My guess is that old '60 M-B ponton is still across the street from the Administration Building.

South Bend is not a big city. It's a bit shady around where Studebaker was (mostly south and just slightly west) but nothing like Detroit.

fintail

GM has this, but not open to the public - I am not sure why GM doesn't have a heritage-themed facility for the public, given its history. Any operating costs would be a drop in the bucket compared to other even more frivolous expenses, no doubt.

I'll try to remember the Studebaker stuff. Right now I am thinking of getting there early, then going to Elkhart, then driving to Auburn to spend the night, and hit A-C-D the next day.

berri

It is a shame that the companies with some of the most prolific designers (Earl, Mitchell, Exner, etc.) don't have open museums. I believe Chrysler closed theirs because of a lack of attendance and wonder if GM doesn't open theirs because of its location with the tech center.

uplanderguy

You're a younger guy than me, more cosmopolitan/metropolitan, but if you like Amish meals (fried chicken, mashed potatoes and gravy, noodles, pie, etc.), there's an Amish town called Shipshewana on US20, east of Elkhart, that has a very big Amish restaurant called the Blue Gate, but also a good small restaurant with that type of food on a buffet, called "The 5 and 20" (at the intersection of routes 5 and 20!). Very clean and very good food.

After the May South Bend swap meet this year, I took US20 the whole way from South Bend into central Ohio, then got on 303. What a relaxing and more-scenic drive than the interstate. But then, I wasn't in a hurry.

berri

There is an Amish community not all that far west of the U of Iowa. Totally agree with Up about the food, just make sure you bring a hearty appetite because it tends to be served family style I think.

fintail

I like diner food and pizza, that's probably what I will seek most. I am also a fan of making use of "free" hotel breakfasts, then a snack for lunch, then dinner. This is a cheapish trip for me - airfare was quite low priced, rental car on points, several hotels on points - little vacation on a budget, no fancy food either.

I will probably stay off the interstates now and then to maybe avoid tolls - cheap once again.

berri

You'll be sorry - town traffic is heavy with lots of lights and speed traps in communities. Gotta watch neighborhoods when you go to some areas south of the city and south/east of the airport as well. Presume you're flying into ORD and not MDW from SEA. I'd recommend staying on I-294 Tri-state Tollway going to Indiana from there. Don't know what cities your hotels are in.

berri

Try Portillo's for Chicago hot dogs or Italian Beef sandwiches. Good pizza all over.

fintail

In Chicago, I will be staying in Evanston, which I think is about as dangerous as similarly affluent parts of suburban Seattle (that is, not). I'll be close to trains, and not need to drive while there.

How much are the tolls for a long drive from say Chicago to South Bend?

berri

Not familiar with Indiana tolls, but Hertz has a toll pass option that works in all states. There is a daily service fee, but in Illinois you pay basically double the toll paying cash manually versus what is charged to a transponder.

Evanston is home to Northwestern University, but varies around town so you are wise to be cautious. Evanston is off the lake, but not real convenient to Interstates. You can get on the Edens (I-94) east of there going north, but going south puts you either through downtown Chicago traffic or a bit of a drive west to the I-294 Tollway. ORD drive will likely be a PITA from there regardless, but I suspect your navigator will have you take the Edens south to the Kennedy direct into ORD. On the plus side, you can take the L downtown (or Wrigley Field) from Evanston for a couple of bucks, just make sure to familiarize yourself with the stop(s) you want to use. It is definitely not like light rail in Seattle, so you don't want to make a mistake.

fintail

The person I am visiting is at Northwestern, I will be staying a couple blocks from there. Looks perfectly safe, I have no concerns. I am pretty good at using public transit too, it will be a little adventure - given the dearth of trains and transit networks here, it is always kind of fun to use them in areas that had more foresight. One day in Chicago will be for movie filming locations, and FLW houses, and I will drive. The rest of the time I will use transit.

I'll actually be heading to Iowa before I go north and then back to Chicago - headed west out of ORD on a Saturday morning from a flight that is scheduled to land before 7am should be a pretty easy escape.

ab348

Back in the '80s I was touring around the Midwest in a rental Plymouth Horizon and ventured into Chicago to see a White Sox game at Comiskey. Coming from Indiana the Dan Ryan Expressway was more than a bit intimidating, as was hearing on the radio that a fatal stabbing happened on the transit station platform I was driving past during the broadcast. Eventually I found Comiskey in a not-so-nice area on the south side, and pulled up by the curb to buy a ticket. There were a bunch of other cars parked there. I went to the window, was struck by the inch-thick presumably bulletproof glass, bought my ticket for the game that night, and as I got back into my car a Chicago PD cruiser pulled up behind me and turned on his takedown lights. I saw that in the rear view and he must have seen me looking at him so he gave me a gesture to get the hell out of there. I did.

For the game I parked in the lot adjacent to Comiskey and had an enjoyable evening. I drove around for a bit but the city was just too big for me to take it in to any extent. If memory serves I was staying in a hotel in Cicero which was uneventful. I decided Chicago by car wasn't for me so I decided to leave the next day to check out the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It was May and practice for the 500 was underway. I had a great day there and even got introduced to A.J. Foyt.

uplanderguy

Have no idea what tolls on the Indiana Toll Road are. I have an E-Z pass I use, which works in PA, OH, and IN. I get billed automatically on my credit card and E-Z pass keeps a $35 balance on my card.

We used to go to Chicago--Michigan Avenue, the 'Miracle Mile'--by getting on the South Shore Line at South Bend, its eastern-most stop. Always fun, and when the kids were small, they rode free. You got on the train at South Bend airport, which is small and convenient. This was the only way the rest of my family would go to South Bend with me, LOL.

Back to Henry Ford Museum--his home, Fair Lane, is very nearby and an interesting tour. I love touring old historic homes.

berri

If you end up in Iowa on I-80, just west of Davenport is the I-80 truck stop. Interesting in itself, but they also have a museum building behind it with some neat vintage trucks. I think they still have this huge truck-o-rama thing in either June or July where there are tons of semi's, but also a rather large vintage truck show I was lucky to see one year. There was actually a lot of differences between big truck styling in the old days.

The drive from ORD to the Iowa border is pretty dull unless one of the ubiquitous at times cops pulls you over.

imidazol97

uplanderguy said:

The prior time I was at Henry Ford with a friend of mine, was probably around '87. Afterwards, we went to find where the Packard plant was on E. Grand Boulevard. It was scary then and I wouldn't recommend it today, LOL!

http://www.packardplantproject.com/

I recall a few years ago seeing a story about a homeless person who lived in the ruins of the Packard plant. It was scheduled for destruction IRIC.

Now I see there's a plan to renovate and restore it. Great.

I wonder if the neighborhood is as bad as it was... Anyone know.

http://shop.puredetroit.com/PACKARD-PLANT-TOURS_ep_48-1.html

Tours!

Buy tickets $40. Meet at 1855 E Grand. There is free parking and a security guard is mentioned.

These two pages and various branches are a wealth of pictures of the Packard plant. Many of the pictures have arrows in them to click through galleries.

fintail

That Packard plant tour looks pretty cool. Might not be in session when I visit.

I expect the drive to IA to be quite boring (but I suspect they sold plenty of Studes out there). I'm going for an odd reason, to visit a deserted empty townsite near Ames that bore my last name, and my name is rare - an ancestor founded it, but it never was more than a hamlet (had a post office for a couple years), and dried up when no railroads decided to pass through. In a nearby small town, there's a grave marker for the founder - same name as me, which is fun as there might literally be 2 or 3 people in the country right now with my first and last name. A side trip I have wanted to take for awhile, my dad would have got a kick out of it as he had the same name, and enjoyed geneaology.

berri

If you are near Iowa City at meal time, stop at the Wig 'n Pen (either Iowa City or Coralville, not sure but near the University Hospital and Football stadium) for a Flying Tomato Pizza. Quite good. Not too far down from I-80.

Neat story about that old hamlet, just don't become an Iowa State University fan