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Postwar Studebakers

18889919394143

Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I think Shifty said it well - something along the lines of Avanti is a car that won't die.

    Here's something to perk you up:




  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    The front end of that sedan reminds me a bit of the front end of the original Valiant (yeah, I'm out there on the curve a bit because I liked the looks of the original Exner valiant) . I like that blue color. and not sure what you call it, but the color on the truck too. Personally, I don't think that red is the best color on the Hawk GT though. Might be because I think the Hawk GT is too European and kind of elegantly styled for the color red.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    I've always liked that '61 Champ they have there. I can remember it in the old museum building from 30 years ago, and Collectible Automobile had it in a feature article once. It looks....'jaunty' I think. Not crazy about the '61 one-year-only 'kicked up' side molding, but the styling has stood the test of time pretty well I think. As you know, I grew up Chevy but I don't think there's any particular timelessness to a '61 Chevy pickup. :)

    Thanks for posting!
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    I like GT Hawks in dark colors usually, although I'm OD'd on black ones. Lots of white ones out there too.

    That red one is the car that was displayed by Studebaker on the '63 Auto Show circuit and was on the cover of a car magazine, the name of which escapes me.

    Here's that Hawk at an auto show. It's not just like it; it's that very car:

    https://studebakerarchives.photoshelter.com/image/I0000prnwPTAZV5U
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    Here's probably my favorite photo of an Avanti, showing perfect factory 'rake' and on repro Halibrand wheels. I know some don't like them and by today's standards it's odd to see a wheel like that with whitewalls, I like it. I've seen similar-era Corvettes with wheels and whitewalls and also Jag E-Types with wire wheels and whitewalls, as well as Sherwood Egbert's Avanti with the Halibrands and whitewalls.

    https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CASMAI_enUS745US747&biw=1366&bih=666&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=7kENXLv8E-rNjwSEjYjoDQ&q=1964+avanti+halibrands&oq=1964+avanti+halibrands&gs_l=img.3...132826.137348..137650...0.0..0.98.1659.22......1....1..gws-wiz-img.......0j35i39j0i67j0i8i30j0i24j0i30.kcVxSM5XBCQ#imgrc=TIaJCKI3yhWsrM:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited December 2018
    Even better, early run E-types, until maybe 1964 or so, could be optioned with wide whites, from the factory. Here's a period pic:

    image

    I'll admit it, I love the look.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I gotta go roadster on that XKE buddy! Although I'll admit the coupe 2+2 is sharp and much more unique.

    Hawk GT, I kind of like the lighter golds, creams, etc. I think it enhances the cars Euro (for the times) lines. Same goes for the Avanti really.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,464
    berri said:

    I gotta go roadster on that XKE buddy! Although I'll admit the coupe 2+2 is sharp and much more unique.

    Hawk GT, I kind of like the lighter golds, creams, etc. I think it enhances the cars Euro (for the times) lines. Same goes for the Avanti really.

    Make my Hawk silver. Red interior would go nicely.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I like the roadster too, the coupe was just the first period pic I found with wide whites. Funny how whitewalls were on everything, then vanished.
    berri said:

    I gotta go roadster on that XKE buddy! Although I'll admit the coupe 2+2 is sharp and much more unique.

    Hawk GT, I kind of like the lighter golds, creams, etc. I think it enhances the cars Euro (for the times) lines. Same goes for the Avanti really.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    I've always liked the E-Types, but in my old age I think that gray one shows some odd bumps and curves. I had forgotten that they still had wraparound windshield, although for some reason I was thinking they had a two-piece windshield and am glad to see that's not the case. I never noticed how high the door sill is but it makes styling sense to make it match the hood opening, which it does.

    Those wire wheels are delicious.
  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    Coupe or droptop, I love E-Types of all kinds. In my opinion, one of the top 10 designs of all time.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    My ideal XKE would be British racing Green with a tan or saddle interior from one of the years with the toggle switches on the dash. Second choice would probably be that sort of cream color with same interior. Of course, I likely wouldn't fit in the thing...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    fin, by accident I saw that you did indeed see that '60 ponton in South Bend! I never really look at that forum; something like 'hold 'em or fold 'em', but looks like I probably should...some old car stuff there. I also just noticed the "...obscure classic car" thread is no longer called 'classic...'.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Yep, I saw it. Beyond redemption, but maybe aging well in that climate, the chrome was surprisingly solid. Guess they don't build em like they used to.

    "Classic" is still there for me ;) I check it, project cars, mystery cars, and this.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    Here's what I see that forum called here:

    I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

    Oops--I thought I remembered 'classic' being before 'car' in the title. Guess not.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    I think I warned you, but that part of town begins to get sketchy about where the old Administration Building and that ponton is. I thought it was so ironic to see it sitting across the street from Studebaker's corporate office building. In May I toured the Administration Building for fourth time since 1990, and there is evidence of homeless inside. One of the large three chandeliers that hang over an open area in the center of the building was on the floor. Apparently someone tried to take it but after getting it down, couldn't get it out. The executive office area is still beautiful--lots of carved wood and marble, and the president's bathroom with pedestal sink and shower is still there.
  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    @uplanderguy & @fintail, what about the area around the Studebaker museum itself? Is it safe, or is it a bit sketchy? Fin, is the RV museum in a safe area in Elkhart? The wife gets pretty nervous in sketchy areas when we are on vacation. Thanks.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    The RV Museum is off the Toll Road, not bad at all. Where the Stude Museum is is OK. It's near a couple large old mansions, Tippecanoe Place and the Oliver Mansion. West of there can be sketchy, and south of the Administration Building (635 S. Main) can be sketchy but I don't worry driving down Main St. myself, and I'm there yearly. I wouldn't wander very far off Main St., south of no. 635. I usually stay in a hotel two or three miles south of there but stay on Main St. south. The fairgrounds is near my hotel and that's where the annual May swap meet is located. The Stude Museum has ample parking and I've never worried going there. I've been going to South Bend for thirty years. I avoid, in general, the west side of town.

    The Stude Museum is really only a few short blocks from Main St. in the central downtown area. Like I said, it's generally in what was the 'old money' section of town. South Bend is not that big of a city.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    ...but if you drive a Rambler :D
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    LOL. I remember leaving an international meet in my '63 Daytona Skytop and the woman at the toll booth there telling me "Come back and see us". :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I had been in Chicago and Milwaukee before I was in South Bend. Some parts seemed a little down on their luck in that wonderful post-industrial late stage capitalism way, but I didn't see anything particularly scary in comparison. As uplanderguy mentions, the Stude museum is kind of in a residential neighborhood, and the RV hall of fame is off a highway in what looks like a commercial park.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    If you go, just keep in mind that South Bend is also home to Notre Dame University. Hotel rooms in the fall during home games, if available at all, are ridiculously-priced. We looked at it for my older daughter, as her maternal grandfather is a 1962 graduate there, but I think what scared her away was my saying that my buddy and I could maybe crash on her dorm room floor during May swap meet weekend, LOL

    She ended up going to a much-more reasonably-priced school anyway...Miami Univ. in SW OH.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    When I visited, I went to Stude first, arriving when they opened, then went to Elkhart. By then it was afternoon, and I took the back roads to Auburn, where I spent the night.
  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,920

    If you go, just keep in mind that South Bend is also home to Notre Dame University. Hotel rooms in the fall during home games, if available at all, are ridiculously-priced. We looked at it for my older daughter, as her maternal grandfather is a 1962 graduate there, but I think what scared her away was my saying that my buddy and I could maybe crash on her dorm room floor during May swap meet weekend, LOL

    She ended up going to a much-more reasonably-priced school anyway...Miami Univ. in SW OH.

    Miami Univ campus is very nice. I had the pleasure of seeing the campus when I visited the home chapter and offices of the fraternity that I'm a member. We stayed at my friend's house in Cincinnati. We made the trip from Knoxville, TN where I went to college. Seems like yesterday, yet it was 1981. I do remember a couple of Studebaker Larks parked street side at campus. Typical of many college cars, dirty, not driven much, pretty much stayed in the same spot.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    I do think that Oxford, OH, where Miami is, is a beautiful small town. Really, the college is the entire town for the most part. Looks like what a TV movie would show as a New England college and town. I could like living there. Of course, our kids sometimes thought the town was too small.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    fin, did you take Route 20 towards Auburn? I always liked that drive, as I'd see the Amish and their horse-drawn plows around Shipshewana. A relaxing drive until you get near I-69.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    Speaking of old Studebakers on campus--

    I went to Clarion Univ. in western PA, about 65 miles east of where I grew up. I graduated in '80.

    I can remember a '64 Commander four-door sedan in our dorm parking lot, and a '66 Commander two-door sedan parked outside what I'm pretty sure was a college apartment house.

    Both cars were probably not 15 years old when I saw them, but that seemed much-older then than now. :)

    I always assumed both were "Grandpa's Old Car" given to the students, but of course who knows. Studebakers were cheap-to-buy after they quit building cars.

    Back to South Bend--that's a long ways from Detroit. I know it's been over fifty years, but whenever I'm there I always think how hard it is to believe that that was a car company headquarters city. I know AMC built cars in Kenosha, WI, but their headquarters building was in Detroit.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Maybe part of it, but much of it was on even lesser roads, no interstates. I went through a lot of Amish areas, and saw several horse and buggies on the road, along with countless Amish houses. It was an interesting drive. Looking at a map, I arrived via highway/route 8.

    fin, did you take Route 20 towards Auburn? I always liked that drive, as I'd see the Amish and their horse-drawn plows around Shipshewana. A relaxing drive until you get near I-69.



  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    @uplanderguy & @fintail, thanks very much for the info on the museum areas. We are planning on going in the spring, just after Memorial Day, so hotels hopefully will not be a problem. Studebaker, RV, and Gilmore are on the agenda, along with the Gerald Ford Museum in Grand Rapids. My wife is even excited about the car museums.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122

    I do think that Oxford, OH, where Miami is, is a beautiful small town. Really, the college is the entire town for the most part. Looks like what a TV movie would show as a New England college and town. I could like living there. Of course, our kids sometimes thought the town was too small.

    That was often referred to as "Miami University home of Oxford Ohio."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think you'll be surprised at the Gerald Ford Museum. I think it is very underrated personally.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Just reading a book about the '64 Indy 500 and Shifty says this counts as a postwar Studebaker :)

    Bobby Unser's 4WD Novi


  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    I read something not long ago that said the money that president Sherwood Egbert allotted to this program was more than he was authorized to without Board approval, and that was just one other thing that didn't endear him to the Board. It irritated them that he liked cars. :)

    On the Studebaker Drivers' Club forum a couple years back, someone posted minutes from various meetings during 1963, which were on file in the archives of the Studebaker National Museum. I had to laugh when it was mentioned about adding (fake) woodgrain to the instrument panel of the Avanti, as well as a fake wood wheel. One person in the meeting commented on the wheel looking "cheap". After that statement, the minutes read "Mr. Egbert approved the wheel for production", LOL.

    One other fellow who was involved in advertising, spoke at the museum probably a decade ago. He said with a smile that Egbert told him, "Ray, your opinion is important...but not to me", LOL.
  • thebeanthebean Member Posts: 1,216
    PF_Flyer said:

    Just reading a book about the '64 Indy 500 and Shifty says this counts as a postwar Studebaker :)

    Bobby Unser's 4WD Novi


    Black Noon? Great book. Really sad about Dave McDonald - could have been a superstar. I remember listening to that race on the radio (Sid Collins - the voice of the 500). As a Texan, I was really scared that AJ had been badly hurt or worse.
    2015 Honda Accord EX, 2019 Honda HR-V EX
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Black Noon indeed. We were on the Palisades Parkway listening on the radio in the car when the Sachs-MacDonald accident happened.

    Just came across another book I want to read about the Mercedes engine and Penske in the '94 500

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    Just came across these photos of a '63 Cruiser with black Skytop sunroof and optional broadcloth seating. I don't believe there was ever a more Benz-like Studebaker built than this model and options. I'd love to own it. The broadcloth seating option ($72) didn't get you any nicer door panels, but they are carpeted at the bottom, not typical of compact cars then. I would have to move the front bumper guards out a hole as they are not in factory position (dealers were sometimes guilty of this if they added the guards, or body shops if they were replaced at some time). Quite different from what the Big Three and AMC were doing in their compacts in '63. Of course, not successful like theirs though, LOL.




  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    The combination of Skytop and broadcloth option is stupidly rare.

    Just noticed there's a Champ pickup in the background of the one pic.
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 18,979
    That interior is remarkably attractive, though I’d have to have the A/C unit resprayed to match. The rear seat looks amazingly roomy.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited December 2018
    I've definitely never seen one like that.

    I wonder how it compares dimensions-wise to a W111 fintail like mine. Cloth on a fintail is rare - I suspect under 10% of cars have it. I think most of it didn't age well, and was replaced with incorrect cloth or vinyl/leather. From what I recall, there were three grades - a normal cloth like this:

    image

    An unusual busy checked/striped cloth I think maybe only available on upper models:

    image

    And a fancier woolcloth/broadcloth like this, also for upper models:

    image

    I think this is closest to the Stude cloth, hard to see in the pic, but it a heavier finer cloth, and has a fine pattern on the seat base and seatback bolsters/side areas. From what I have heard, this cloth is very expensive to replace, and is quite rare, I have never seen it in person on a fintail. MB had this type of cloth with the same fine pattern on the bolsters available as an option, I think a no-charge item, on S-class into the mid 90s.





  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,464
    (Sigh). The gold W126 directly in front of the car in the last picture, other than being a long wheelbase instead of standard, is a dead ringer for the one we lost in the fire. Even the same wheels.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    Sorry about your loss bhill. Did you lose this in the recent CA fires?

    The only broadcloth in a '63 Cruiser I've ever seen was in a clapped-out parts car at the place that restored my old '63 Daytona Skytop. The interior was shot.

    Broadcloth was only offered on Cruisers in '63 and '64, although the '63 seat pattern was much-plusher IMHO. In '64, the seat pattern was identical to the regular Cruiser, just covered in broadcloth. My understanding is that broadcloth is essentially wool.

    fin, what is the wheelbase of your fintail? Four-door Studes were 113" from '62 on.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018
    Right now, I can't think of a Stude that's out there that I'd rather own than this black Cruiser. :)

    As I'd said previously, I think no one would mistake a '63 Cruiser for a 'Benz, but the one does remind me of the other.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    '63 Larks, except the basic "Standard" model, all had the gold "Vanity" lettering on the glovebox lid. The thing folded down and there was a makeup case with mirror in there. I used to think "Vanity" was a model when I was a kid, and I've seen an ad or two over the years with "'63 Lark Vanity for sale" in it, LOL.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    edited December 2018

    That interior is remarkably attractive, though I’d have to have the A/C unit resprayed to match.


    I always liked Stude's instrument panel those last few years. Just straightforward dials with full instrumentation. Even Ramblers had some goofy shapes there IMHO, all in the name of styling. Those last few years' Studes were largely styled by industrial designers instead of 'stylists', and I think it shows.

    In its price category when new, a Cruiser with broadcloth option was a very nice compact sedan IMHO, but of course, too 'out there' for a lot of folks.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    The gold car is actually a W116, the predecessor to the W126. The cars look quite similar in profile, and both can have the 14" bundt wheels as you describe. A key to differentiate them might be the bumpers - W116 have double/tiered bumpers like a fintail.

    I see you still have heartache about your 380SE, and I am sad to see that. I can only imagine what that would be like, as I have had my old car for a long time, more than half my life now. If something happened to that car, I'd either replace it with another old car, or take up a new hobby with the proceeds. Have you searched for a replacement? Nice ones are out there, and only the best of the best cars have really high values. I think of these kind of like pets at an animal shelter - some of these old cars need homes that will give them appropriate care. Maybe you can do that to another similar car.
    bhill2 said:

    (Sigh). The gold W126 directly in front of the car in the last picture, other than being a long wheelbase instead of standard, is a dead ringer for the one we lost in the fire. Even the same wheels.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited December 2018
    From what I can find, fintails have a 109" wheelbase, so not far off.

    I can't imagine anyone confusing the cars either, but I think there is some influence, and it isn't a bad thing. Reasonably sided car that could be optioned with somewhat continental (as in Europe) interior trim.



    fin, what is the wheelbase of your fintail? Four-door Studes were 113" from '62 on.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,026
    Two-door Studes, including the Avanti, were 109-inch wheelbase in the sixties....except the Hawk, which was 120.5 inches.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,464
    fintail said:

    The gold car is actually a W116, the predecessor to the W126. The cars look quite similar in profile, and both can have the 14" bundt wheels as you describe. A key to differentiate them might be the bumpers - W116 have double/tiered bumpers like a fintail.

    I see you still have heartache about your 380SE, and I am sad to see that. I can only imagine what that would be like, as I have had my old car for a long time, more than half my life now. If something happened to that car, I'd either replace it with another old car, or take up a new hobby with the proceeds. Have you searched for a replacement? Nice ones are out there, and only the best of the best cars have really high values. I think of these kind of like pets at an animal shelter - some of these old cars need homes that will give them appropriate care. Maybe you can do that to another similar car.

    bhill2 said:

    (Sigh). The gold W126 directly in front of the car in the last picture, other than being a long wheelbase instead of standard, is a dead ringer for the one we lost in the fire. Even the same wheels.

    Uplanderguy - Yes, we lost the car to the fire in Santa Rosa. It was an '85 that we bought in '91 with 60K miles on it from the dealer who had sold and serviced it. They even gave us a warrantee. We were in the market for a new car and had budgeted about the amount being asked. I did a little research on the reliability and maintenance costs and we decided it was likely to provide as good or better service than the other cars we were considering. Twenty-six years and 200K miles later we had been proven right. It still ran like a top, used little or no oil, and was a joy to drive. We miss it. It was the car that taught us 'Just shut up and pay the extra money.

    Fin - We haven't looked for a replacement because we are still in temporary lodging while our house is being rebuilt (THAT is an adventure of its own). When we are back in our home town, with our home mechanic Henry, I will be tempted to do a bit of exploring. With a clean bill of health from a trusted source (especially if it Henry) I might easily succumb.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I hope you didn't loose any irreplaceable stuff like family pictures. That had to be just horrible, but you and yours were all safe hopefully. Things like that must change your perspective on life. Good luck getting resettled.
  • sdasda Member Posts: 6,920
    edited December 2018
    I do like the look of the ‘63 Cruiser interior, clean and plush. Too bad the undermount ac wasn’t incorporated better, looks tacked on, but hey, it has the best of two worlds, sunroof and ac! With such a nice interior, were electric windows, locks, seats an option? Sharp car.

    2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech, 2006 Acura TL w/nav

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