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2012 Ford Focus

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  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    I am convinced this is totally a marketing ploy to sell the higher trimmed cars. There is a lot of profit in gadgets, so what better way to force you into gadget territory than to make a very useful (and ridiculously economical to build) 60/40 seat split as part of that pkg? Any family that has more than a household of two that does any sports or gardening activity, knows full well that the rear seat must split, so it becomes a mandatory thing and they don't consider a trim level under what that comes with. Cruise control is like that on some cars. Cruze comes to mind. The manufacturers basically force you into a more uplevel car just because you want that one feature.

    How I miss the days of checking off my own individual option sheet starting with a base car and working my way up, one tick ($) at a time. Before you know it they will have us all in nothing but loaded cars if all you originally wanted was A/C, 22" wheels and any color you want as long as it's black. :sick:

    Sam
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    It finally explained why this very short lady neighbor who drives a Sentra was arguing w/ me that the '86 Mercedes 300E rides uncomfortably.

    Now you're making me laugh too! Is there anyone within a ten-mile radius of you that you don't argue with about cars? :P
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    This particular lady is not a car person anyway, & I didn't even bother to refute. It all started out when she asked me, "My busband wants to get a $36k new Mercedes 300E, but what's so good about Mercedes Benz?"

    I only answered, "comfort."

    Then she replied, "It's not comfortable!" That was the end of this discussion, & I did not suspect her honesty, either. Of course, I was thinking that if she doesn't know how to appreciate this kind of design, then it wouldn't be worth her $...
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    Mercedes-Benz German-mobile wasn't comfortable enough for that lady? What does she need...a Genesis sedan from Hyundai? Or the new Kia K9 perhaps.

    Almost produced in me a big 'ole LOL. :D

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    That didn't take long.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    If it continues, I'm going to have to get out the old Delete-o-Matic. Look at the discussion title, folks - the content of your posts should relate to it. Directly.

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  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    edited April 2011
    Ok, I like this forum as it's not subjective.
    Now, how come Ford is treating us like second hand rose again and the Brits get the Focus HB TCDI in 1.21 and 1.4l before us? Is the UK and Germany their testing grounds?The focus is made in Mexico also isn't it? Texas is upping the speed limit to 80MPH
    Well, with the price of gas now I'm shopping MPG.
    Also, a Focus TI HB loaded is around 30k.Maybe if I lived in Fl,or So Cal where you can wash your car alot.
    When I go on Auto Express I always have to convert pounds to dollars, also Euoros.
    Lasltly who is the brain on Edmund's that got rid of the flags and how much money would you guys lay out for a Focus nicely equipped.
    Also, to whoever said to RTFM I do every year to reset the clock. I do pay attention to Shippo and The Creakid. I find them an asset to this forum and other forums. :shades:
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    There are many examples of vehicles that can be purchased in EU with extremely efficient (and clean) diesels, that in the USA, politics (tax-based revenue in lieu of the facts) restricts their entry.

    I recommend expressing your frustration to your congressman. There is strength in numbers. Government has raised the price of diesel (and has kept it higher than RUG even though it costs less to refine) and touted hybrid tech, not because they actually care about the air we breathe, but because it renders them more revenue through tax dollars to waste. There is more CO and sulfur PPM emission content in RUG and PUG than there is in diesel.

    I wouldn't hold our breath on getting that TCDI in the Focus, when even luxury brands like MB, Audi and Lexus recently announced they will invest more in hybrid tech for cars destined to NA. Wouldn't be so bad I suppose, except that ironically even hybrid tech is superior when using a diesel engine. Until enough pressure is put on government to quit lying to us with their intentions/restrictions, nothing is going to change quick. But $5+ gas will get more people speaking out though (one can hope).

    I have said this before, but is worth reiterating. This would have been a great opportunity for Ford to offer a more affordable North American alternative to a very efficient AWD diesel platform like MB and BMW offerings. Since VW has still not offered AWD in an affordable, efficient vehicle like the Golf or Jetta TDI, Ford should with the Focus. Get the jump on the Cruze diesel that is rumored to be make it over here. These past winters (and especially the last one) have dumped so many snow storms in states that usually don't have to contend with slippery conditions, that I read more often lately of drivers that say they wish they had more AWD alternatives to pick from, that are fuel efficient. SUV's are a quintuple whammy of inefficiency. They are high with poor aerodynamics, heavy (and need more power to move that weight) and most are AWD. AWD in itself uses more fuel, so what better way to offset that than with an efficient turbo diesel? And since fuel costs are as significant as they are, many drivers are realizing they really don't need the size of an SUV, but settle for one because AWD is their primary goal, when a Focus-sized AWD diesel wagon/and or hatchback would fit the bill perfectly. Word would spread like wildfire. You missed the boat Ford. Opportunity lost. Instead, Hyundai or Kia will do it and NA brands will once again be playing catch-up. :(

    Sam
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    edited April 2011
    The Focus is made at the Wayne Assembly Plant, Wayne, MI, USA. The 6 speed dual clutch automatic transmission is made in Mexico. According to the sticker on the car, 85% domestic parts, 15% foreign parts.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    Samm 43 ,great informative post.Maybe Ford doesn't want our business.This winter was so bad,If Focus AWD HB available I would have bought one.The little Imprezda has the boxer 2.5 ,but milage is terrible.
    Well,I guess Iam disgusted and I will write to my congressperson. TY
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,448
    FWIW the former platform mate of the focus (Mazda 3) may get a diesel for 2013. Mazda said they will bring diesels over to the US for that model year. Maybe Ford will do the same.
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    Subaru just revealed the 2012 Impreza, which looks to be a formidable competitor to the Focus.

    http://www.subaru.com/impreza/2012/index.html?cid=em_201104_insider

    Take a look at the rear, three-quarter view of the hatchback. The similarity is striking. The Focus has the Impreza beat on HP and mileage, but then again the Impreza has, of course, AWD.
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    I agree the 3/4 view is very similar. Along with MPG's and HP, the Focus beats it in interior and front end styling. Subaru has never been very bold with their front end styling, remember the pig nose. I guess I wonder if AWD is really needed in a C segment car. If you live in an area where the roads aren't plowed right away in the winter it would come in handy, but who is going to take this size car into the woods or where AWD is necessary. With Ford's torque vectoring and Euro inspired suspension, my guess is the Focus will handle far better than the AWD.
  • markus5markus5 Posts: 102
    edited April 2011
    Interesting:
    Looking at rear seat configuration at the SE trim level in Hatch vs. Sedan, the hatch has split back and bottom. These bottoms flip forward individually which allows the seat back to get down to a horizontal when the head rests are removed.
    The seat bottom on the sedan does not move which will NOT enable the seat back to move down to horizontal. In this way, going from the sedan to the Hatch is actually going up a trim level. No doubt, this is one of the factors responsible for the higher cost on the Hatch.
    I understand Samm's frustration with the marketing manipulations on the trim levels. For example, I do not like the decision that Ford makes to not put a more flexible back seat configuration on every trim level, it clearly diminishes the value on these more basic models.
  • netranger4netranger4 Posts: 149
    Yes, m6user, I have driven both the Focus and the Fiesta. The Fiesta hatchback was the first or second one my local dealer had in stock. The ride was decent, but not outstanding. Being of small stature, even I felt cocooned.

    As we pulled into the driveway of the dealership, after the test drive, the transmission disengaged. the revs shot up and then the transmission grabbed and we proceeded up the driveway. I said to the sales rep 'NO WAY' to the Fiesta. It felt like a slipping hydraulic AT. The sad part was that the tail of the car was in the traffic lane when it decided to de-clutch or whatever.

    The Focus was not too bad. It was an SE sedan, again with that dual clutch transmission. Thanks, but I'll stick with the regular AT. The Euro's must have a different tolerance level than we do here in the States.

    The Fiesta styling is attractive, too bad the rest of the product is not as appealing as the visual.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    I too have had a test drive in both Fords. I would not buy either, I just wanted to see how they drove and what all the hipe was about. The Fiesta is tight for someone over 220 lgs. The ride is solid, but bouncy. Engine pick up was slow. I do not know how other 1.6 L engines perform, so maybe its good for a engine of that size. The Fiesta I drove had a sticker of $ 22,200. I consider that proberly about average for most small vehicles equiped to the hilt. The Fiesta was loaded!

    The Focus was also $ 22,400. so price wise they were about the same. But the Focus was not nearly so fancy with all kind of do-da's. The ride is solid but smoother, engine was a 2.5 or 2.4, I am not for sure which. Transmission shifts were smoother, the seats were a little more comfortable, pick up was much better. Both dash 's looked a like.

    Fit and finish were very good, the dask cover was like rubber...all black looked a little cheap to me. For $ 22,000, both seemed too much to me. If I needed a bigger car I would buy used rather than either of these two Fords. Bothe have a good amount of forigen made parts. Engines made in Brazil, transmissions made in Mexico. Both used tires that for me seemed cheap OE tires. These Fords may do good, but time will tell if their value holds up in the NADA or KBB.

    All in all my 1996 Dodge neon would out run, hold bigger people and at 197,000 still is a better car....it's paid for!
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    See my post just before this. I made a mistake
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,771
    My local dealer has 3 SEs (2 hatches, 1 sedan) on the ground so I went over to take a look. I sat in a dark blue hatch and the (gray) sedan, both automatics and listing for just under $21k. I didn't ask for a test drive because I'm not going to buy a car for at least a year... and they didn't offer a test drive.

    Likes:

    * Comfortable driving position. Good thigh support, seat felt firm but well-contoured. Grippy woven fabric. Wheel was comfortable at its outermost reach. One car had a leather wheel, which felt nicer than the plastic one of course.
    * Nice looking dash, with (faux?) aluminum trim and classy if somewhat extreme gauges. Upper parts of dash were padded.
    * Nice looking 16" alloys on the car that had them. The plastic wheel covers on the other car looked cheap.
    * Nicely padded lid on center console--was leather or faux leather.
    * Roomy trunk or (on hatch) behind-seat storage.
    * Pretty good headroom in back--I'm 5'9", 32" inseam. Better than for example the Elantra.
    * Good foot room under driver's seat.

    Dislikes:

    * Lack of rear seat legroom. In my sit-behind-me test, my shins were up tight against the driver's seat but my thighs were not fully supported. So, adequate for kids or small adults only, depending on who's driving.
    * Rear armrests are hard plastic, and there's no center armrest--which almost all cars in this class, certainly for over $20k, have. Also there's no grab handles in back. It's almost like Ford decided to focus :) on the front seat passengers only with this car.
    * Lack of front headroom with the moonroof--my hair was brushing the headliner with the seat adjusted for comfort, and I'm only 5'9".
    * Light-colored woven headliner looks like it will pick up dirt easily... and in fact one car already had multiple smudges on the headliner, and it's a new car on the dealer lot.
    * There's LOTS of buttons on the dash--more with MySync than without. At least the HVAC controls are simple. But they are not smooth as I would expect in a "premium" compact, i.e. they "clack" instead of "snick" through their settings. (Ford, check with GM or Nissan on that.)
    * Front doors have a little padding for elbows, but it's very thin and it's cloth. (Ford, check with Nissan on that, e.g. Versa).
    * Vanity mirrors are not illuminated... not what I'd expect on a $20k+ car.
    * While the dash looks nice and has padded surfaces, the door panels are hard plastic and it doesn't look like high-quality plastic--although it felt sturdy.
    * Front cupholders are a dugout in the center console. That's it. No adjustments, no cover, nothing to dress them up--just a hole in the center console. Not what I'd expect in a "premium" compact.
    * Styling is subjective, but the "snowplow" front end doesn't grab me. I like the exterior styling otherwise... except those plastic wheel covers.

    Even though the Focus might drive great, it's not enough "car" for me, for nearly $21k. For that money I'd more likely go for an Elantra Limited, or maybe the 2012 Impreza (assuming its price stays about the same as for 2011). If I could live with a tight rear seat (and I'd rather not), I'd take the Cruze ECO over the Focus--nicer interior, more driver's seat adjustments, better fuel economy.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    * There's LOTS of buttons on the dash--more with MySync than without. At least the HVAC controls are simple. But they are not smooth as I would expect in a "premium" compact, i.e. they "clack" instead of "snick" through their settings. (Ford, check with GM or Nissan on that.)

    That's the pathetic thing about domestic manufacturers in general -- I already got sick of them since I was little checking out the Chevette & AMC Gremlin... At the LA Autoshow in late '09, I've noticed quality deterioration as well when sitting inside of the Fiesta as I tried to adjust the seat mechanism, etc. B/c I have driven the made-in-Germany Fiesta in Los Angeles County prior to that. Ford has spoiled me w/ a higher-quality car in their special invitation. Now my expectation has...
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    Did you happen to see a model without Ford Mytouch? I am concerned that the dash for non-Mytouch models will have yawning blank spaces for "non-features."

    I hate being reminded that I have a cheaper trim by blank buttons and ambiguous empty spots.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,771
    I did sit in one car w/o My-whatever. Fewer buttons, still too many for my taste. But no "yawning blank spaces" that I noticed.

    The simple, logical rotary HVAC controls contrasted mightily with the array of buttons above. Sometimes I think carmakers these days focus more on cars as entertainment systems than... cars.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    edited April 2011
    Sometimes I think carmakers these days focus more on cars as entertainment systems than... cars.

    You sure said a mouthful there.

    I would only say differently, that I would leave out the word "sometimes" and I would add that they have been doing this (in the extreme) for at least 2 years. And in the newer models, they are only 'perfecting' what they think we want. And amazingly enough, I have read on these very pages that there are some out there that want a particular brand or model of car the for its flotsam offerings. My words, (and obvious opinion) not theirs.
    But, I must hold on to the belief that those customers are in the minority and hopefully this is just a phase that manufacturers, and especially their customers, will outgrow. If they don't, law enforcement with new legislation will eventually do it for them.

    Sam
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    Fit and finish were very good, the dask cover was like rubber...all black looked a little cheap to me. For $ 22,000, both seemed too much to me. If I needed a bigger car I would buy used rather than either of these two Fords.

    Oh gosh, you nailed it. Back in 2004, every Focus sedan sold in California had std 2.3 engine designed by Mazda, plus decent leg room at low prices. The car had enough low-end torque to run circles around Honda Civic's. But the new Civic Si now has high-output naturally aspirated 2.4 while the new Focus couldn't adopt Mazda3's 2.5.

    & Ford still thinks such unrefined interior quality is good enough for a $27k car w/ so little rear leg room?

    I guess, unless it's an efficient company like Hyundai or some Japanese..., stuffing all that high-quality materials w/in a small interior will end up costing this much! :P
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    Did you happen to see a model without Ford Mytouch? I am concerned that the dash for non-Mytouch models will have yawning blank spaces for "non-features."

    I hate being reminded that I have a cheaper trim by blank buttons and ambiguous empty spots.


    #349 Fiesta vs the Focus by farout Apr 23, 2011 (3:34 pm)
    "Both dash 's looked a like."

    yawning blank spaces?

    a cheaper trim by blank buttons and ambiguous empty spots?

    & close up
  • I test drove an SEL stickered @ $25,340 over the long weekend. The car was fresh off the truck (5 miles on the odometer) and had the MYFORD Touch system, Nav, Moonroof, and the Winter package (a nice plus in the midwest winters). It was a cloudy day, ~55 deg F, and 15-25 MPH winds.
    Overall, I liked the car. I wish I'd been able to go a bit longer and try some rougher roads (the potholes are horrendous in my part of town). The handling was good, I didn't feel like I was being buffeted around by the wind. The vehicle had good pick-up - I was able to merge onto the highway twice without having to stomp on the gas either time. Hit 65MPH without any trouble. I liked backy's bulletpoint format above, so I'll copy that here with my (any my wife's) likes/dislikes.

    Likes:
    Fit & finish - The dash was padded and was soft to the touch. Not many gaps were visible on the console/dash area.
    Seats - I had plenty of room (5'7"), the seats were firm, but not hard. The side bolsters didn't make me feel like I was being folded length-wise. The seats heated up nice and quick and didn't leave griddlemarks.
    Storage - Lots of room in the rear (truck) area, though I do wish the rear seats would fold completely flat.
    Ride/handling - As I noted above, it was somewhat windy and I didn't feel like we were being pushed around by the wind. The car felt pretty well planted on the road. We didn't feel every bump/expansion joint as we drove along. I was able to pass a car or two.
    (Lack of) Noise - The cabin was very quite during the drive. We didn't have the radio on specifically for this reason. There was some wind noise as we were on the highway, but we could have a conversation without having to yell and turn around completely in the seat to speak/hear the salesman in the back.

    Dislikes:
    Headroom (her) - My wife liked the seats overall, but couldn't figure out how to lower hers so she didn't feel like she was touching the roof with her head(she's 5'9" and no, she doesn't have a beehive hairdo). I didn't have a problem with the headroom and the seats seemed to be the same height (I didn't measure or anything).
    Rear seat room (her) - My wife likes to have her seat all the way back, so that left little leg room in the rear passenger seat position. I had the driver's seat about 1/2 the way back and the rear diver's seat postion was cramped - my wife's knees brushed the back of the seat and she needed to do a bit of contorting to get in without smacking anything.
    Control complexity - I know the tech is a big selling point and I love me some tech, but even I have my limits. It felt like it took 2 minutes to figure out how to change the cabin temp.
    Light colored cloth dash and headliner - They were nice and soft, but I could see them staining very easily.

    That's about all I can come up with for now. I'm not sure I'd pay $25k for the vehicle, but its growing on me.
  • markus5markus5 Posts: 102
    edited April 2011
    Was this a 5 door?
    I'm sure at this option level the passenger side is hieght adjustable, but it is also possible that Moon Roof option pushes the roof liner marginally lower. This is not the case in my '04 Focus, even when I pump up the seat hieght. ( I am 5'9" ). This may be a deal breaker, because having a moon roof is a nice option even at $400.
    I do not like the feeling of being in a cave. For me, the beltline (windows) need to be quite low as well.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I do not like the feeling of being in a cave. For me, the beltline (windows) need to be quite low as well.

    Then, skipping the moonroof will allow you to sit high & able to see toddlers (or puppies/kittens) around you more...

    That's exactly what I did when I ordered my Focus ST sedan back then.

    One time, my car was waiting on a stop light behind an SUV, which was the very first car behind the cross walk. I saw a baby-kitten copy cat (literally) walking slowly following the pedestrians onto the cross walk, then our light turned green.... The SUV sprinted forward & then suddenly stopped (I guess they've heard something unexpected), & my front bumper almost smashed into its rear bumper. The SUV finally took off again (this time, slowly), & there was this poor young kitten (still alive) w/ half of it completely flattened. The girl in my car started calling 911 as I backed up my car to block the traffic behind it, which didn't help. The kitten stopped moving w/in a couple minutes.

    Sorry for the graphic "educational" ... I know I'm an anti-SUV person, that's why I love the non-SUV Focus for having comfortably high chairs.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I had the driver's seat about 1/2 the way back and the rear diver's seat postion was cramped - my wife's knees brushed the back of the seat and she needed to do a bit of contorting to get in without smacking anything.

    This last-minute change, at least for the U.S.-spec Focus, doesn't look good at all. Looks like Ford better produce an extended-wheelbase version & sell it through Lincoln dealers? Which means using the same platform as the Volvo S80 (The Focus III uses a shortened Mondeo/S80 platform, which is an enlarged version of the "Focus II" C-1 platform also used on the S40/V50 & Mazda3).
  • Yes it was the 5-door. Sorry about not putting that in there.
  • samm43samm43 Posts: 195
    I thought Ford and Volvo had split?

    Sam
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