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2012 Ford Focus

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Comments

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    So Ford cheated by offering the same car in more markets? ;)
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,870
    I guess it depends on what the definition of "doing better" is. 1,000 sales in 120 countries IS 20,000 more sales than 100,000 in one country.

    Just an observation :shades:

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  • Thats what happend to me. Had the dealer expained the operation of the dct. I would have understood better. I did test ride it first. I knew what it was, But acted dumb. The salesman says "oh thats the new six speed" He had no clue it was a manual/auto tranny. Needless to say after the update mine operates good.
    Something tells me in a couple of years its all we probably can get.
    Its the final nail in the coffin for torque convertors.
    The dual clutch will only get better with time.
    how do you spell dart?
  • Nope, Its called ford global.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    As I recall, the Cruze, Civic, Fit, Sonic (as the Aveo), Golf, and others are also sold globally. I was accusing Ford of cheating sarcastically. :)
  • yea, I guess you are right! LOL.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I suppose most manufacturers would like increased sales (for the most part), but I don't assume any vehicle is better (or more desirable) because of higher sales.

    Economies of scale could come into play; maybe allotting a higher level of equipment...but I had a Maserati GranTurismo power by me the other day it didn't seem lacking due to limited sales :shades:

    A Big Mac isn't my favorite either :)
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    is the most boring car in this class. I just can't see why anyone would want to buy one with all the great small cars out today. Hell, even Kia and Hyundai are better in their drive trains!
    Focus is getting some bad press because of the sport shift transmissions. People in the U.S. don't know how they work and its newer technology for Americans. I love mine! Took me a bit to understand how it works but if works great. I am averaging 33.7MPG between city and Hwy in my 2012 Focus SE hatch automatic. I get complements all the time on this car.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    UGH! Corolla by cannon3
    Dec 31, 2012 (5:11 pm)

    is the most boring car in this class. I just can't see why anyone would want to buy one with all the great small cars out today. Hell, even Kia and Hyundai are better in their drive trains!


    You FINALLY said something I can agree with, congrats! :D
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    I mentioned this before. My '98 Corolla LE stick 1.8 had excellent torque around 2000rpm & gets 40mpg on the hwy. Due to its uncomfortable driving position (w/ low chairs & limited rear leg room) plus poor ride/handling/steering, I had to replaced it w/ the noisier Focus ST stick 2.3 (reliable Mazda engine) gas-guzzler that feels weaker at low rpm. But it's still worth it w/ all the enjoyment.

    Today, the new Focus w/ problematic auto tranny still has the comfortably high chairs, but no longer got rear leg room, which owners of the new Corolla w/ roomy high chairs can laugh at.

    The fun-to-drive hatchback Golf 2.5 automatic is reliable like the Corolla, but the rear seating is uncomfortably low (although not as bad as the C-Max) despite good leg room. Fortunately there's the Golf/Jetta wagon 2.5 w/ a comfy supportive rear chair while excels in reliability surpassing even the Prius V wagon (See Consumer Reports)!
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Last week, the metal piping at the bottom of my passenger-side rearmost window fell off... and today, the parts came into the dealer; so I took my 2012 Ford Focus hatchback in to have it replaced. So far, so good.

    Has anyone else had a problem with the metal piping at the bottom of the side windows?
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    I have not had any interior parts fall off in the 9 months I have owned my Focus.
  • cannon3cannon3 Posts: 296
    Some how Consumer reports can look into the future and see the relaibility of the new Focus is going to be bad. I sure would like to know how they do this???? I know there have been some that have complained about the transmission with the dual clutch. I feel this is due more to not knowing how this transmission works. This is the same Focus that has sold in Europe and it has been fine. Well, I guess we will see in the next 4 years if mine has any issues. They also claim 28MPG combined?? I know plenty of people in other forums with Focus sedans and hatch backs that are getting between 31 and 34 combined. I think this is once again a case of Consumer reports bashing domestic brands.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    This is the same Focus that has sold in Europe and it has been fine.

    This is the same Focus that has sold in Europe?

    The domestic-built new Focus had so much quality problems:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUXNNe1C9i0
    Ford had to ship the whole entire dashboard from Europe for a while!

    Low-quality Focus should be bashed. That's why I had to wait about half a decade since the mk1 Focus was introduced in the U.S. before I bought one. & back then, Focus' auto tranny was a Mazda unit imported from Japan.

    Besides, what percent of Euro drivers drive stick?
  • kam327kam327 Posts: 115
    There are very good reasons why the Focus was named to Car & Driver's 10 best a second time, after almost 2 years on the American market, and is the best selling car in the world. The DCT is not perfect but it has its advantages and it's getting better as the initial kinks are worked out (faulty clutch packs and programming).
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited January 2013
    There are very good reasons why the Focus was named to Car & Driver's 10 best a second time

    No doubt, the Focus is less boring-to-drive than the Accord, which has been Car & Driver's 10 best more often than anything else on earth. "C&D's Ten Best" are not based on reliability anyway.

    If you have only driven the Focus lately, go back to the ST170 (SVT in America) & see for yourself. Consumer Reports rated the Focus SVT more fun-to-drive than the Mini Cooper while offering more comfort! Which other cars can do that?
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Here is what CR says:

    ------------------------------------------------------
    For new models that are currently available, our Predicted Reliability rating is based on the model's recent history, provided the model hasn't been significantly redesigned for the current model year. Online, Predicted Reliability is presented in the new car model overview pages in the Ratings Report Card, and Ratings & Specs and in the Vehicle Overall Ratings comparison. It is also incorporated into the Reliability History charts as the New Car Prediction.

    We also present Predicted Reliability in more detail in our graphs. In this presentation, bar graphs show the percentage difference between each model's overall reliability and the average reliability of all models. We group models by vehicle type (for example, family cars or minivans), for ease of comparing models that are direct-market competitors.

    Our statisticians also do in-depth analyses of the reliability data to provide information to consumers about trends in automotive reliability, reliability of newly introduced models, and other important issues. These analyses are presented in the April issue of Consumer Reports, at ConsumerReports.org, and in newsstand auto publications throughout the year.
    ------------------------------------------------------

    To summarize: If the vehicle had transmission problems last year and this year there are no changes they'll predict that it will have problems. If there is no historical data it usually doesn't show anything.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    But the software HAS changed at least twice and there are hardly any new reports of problems.

    BTW the Euro Focus gets a different version of the powershift DCT - it has a wet clutch vs. a dry clutch and is smoother.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I'm not certain if there are more or less "new" problems reported; that's just what they show on their site.

    They've recently had Ford high in their rankings, I'm assuming if these problems go away they'll re-evaluate and position them higher.

    That is of course if you care about that sort of thing; the two Focuses I've driven (manual and auto) were fine (for the test drive anyway). I'm not totally sold on how they collect data and how it relates to reliability anyway.
  • kam327kam327 Posts: 115
    I think Consumer Reports unfairly penalizes companies like Ford. Ford has become known lately for being a leader with new (or at least new for its segment) tech, like MyFord Touch, the dual clutch automated manual, the 1.6L turbo, etc. Ford may not do well in releasing that tech to the masses without problems, but the real question in terms of reliability should really be how reliable the car is once the typical first-model-year problems have been fixed (via recalls and TSBs on cars already sold and running production changes). I don't see how CR takes that into account with current or recent model year cars.

    Their reliability ratings are based on consumer surveys. So if consumers complain that MyFord touch is slow or locks up, BOOM - CR hits Ford with poor reliability despite the fact that Ford is continuously releasing software updates which greatly improve the tech.

    And then another issue - take the Focus with its DCT transmission. The '12 Focus gets excellent reliability ratings in everything except "Transmission - minor" where it gets a poor. Why? Could be because many of its subscribers are complaining about the DCT behavior (jerky low speed operation, roll back on hills, etc.) without taking into account that that's pretty normal DCT behavior and the consumer just doesn't realize it. And then they give the car an overall poor reliability rating because it scored poor in only 1 of numerous reliability categories. Pretty unfair.

    Bottom line - don't trust Consumer Reports! It rewards cars with relatively little technical innovation and that are boring to drive (lookin' at you Camry!)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    CR does not like MFT because they think it's a safety issue. Never mind that you can do anything you need to do while driving using steering wheel controls or voice control. And you're correct they don't differentiate between one time problems and long term recurring problems.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    When the 2012s first came out you heard lots of owners complaining about the powershift and some were actually defective. But the defective ones have been replaced and two software updates seem to have fixed the problems with the powershift. I don't hear any new Focus owners complaining about the tranny in the new vehicles whereas before it was very common. That tells me the problem is at least 95% fixed. There will always be people who don't like the way it works just like they don't like CVTs. But most get used to it.

    The one thing that still surprises me when I drive my daughter's car is the lack of engine braking when you're in reverse and let off the gas. It basically freewheels until you hit the brakes. Not a problem, just unexpected.
  • podpod Posts: 176
    Reliability is determined over time as you say. Ford has typically been very reliable in my experience, very reliable. I regret the recent concentration of gadgets and screens and other aspects of the vehicle that strike me as unnecessary at least and dangerous at worst. Most of the Ford advertisements concentrate on the presence of the many "assist" devices all of which are unnecessary and add expense. Many of the reviewers concentrate on ludicrous aspects such as ambient lighting, type of headlight, whether there are LED taillights, whether there are fog lights, the resolution of the various screens and how easy it is to scroll, etc. One very excellent review (IMO) was in Automobile Magazine which compared 5 cars (Dart, Focus, Maxda 3i, honda civic and hyundai elantra). I thought their treatment of the focus was fair and measured. It placed fourth of 5 but was judged the best drivers car. The criticism of the focus seem fair enough, not over the top. They point out that the Focus was easily the most expensive car in the comparo. That is one true fact about Ford, the price of all models has crept up between 1-2K over the past 2-3 years. I think the dodads contribute to the uppricing and I regret that since I want none of them. You can opt our of many by going for the base model but there is a creep to include some of these unnecessary gadgets. Whether it is typical behavior for a DCT or not the Focus DCT has a bad reputation which seems justified since it is the car owners who are complaining. Perhaps the salesmen should alert the drivers during the test drive that the DCT is a different beast than they have encountered. The customer is always right (even if the gearheads understand the facts and think otherwise). I think Ford has lost standing over the past year or so because of the many small snafus which have marked the introduction of the new models. When Ford asks for a premium price they have to deliver a premium product without explanations or excuses. I think they have got ahead of themselves and need to slow down and focus again on quality as perceived by the people who buy their products. Too much advertising which tauts gadgets rather than the quality driving experience. I truly regret the trend toward infomatics, nannies and other gadgets which cost design time and money and distract the driver and divert eyes from the road. It's not just Ford but I am a Ford loyalist so I put my complaint under their name. Stop trying to be "cool"; be good.
  • kam327kam327 Posts: 115
    edited January 2013
    "CR does not like MFT because they think it's a safety issue."

    I don't know about that, if that was it all companies that offer touch screens would be hammered. Ford's just seems to still have some teething issues. I thought the headline last year read something like "Ford drops to 2nd to last place due primarily to MyFord Touch issues." Another recent comparo judged BMW's iDrive 1st and MyFord Touch last or close to it. And remember when everyone hated iDrive.....

    "I don't hear any new Focus owners complaining about the tranny in the new vehicles whereas before it was very common. That tells me the problem is at least 95% fixed."

    Uhhhhh, go to another popular focus forum, in which I'm an active member, and you'll see plenty of fresh complaints (shuddering, grinding, etc.) My own Focus has been good overall but has had periods of bad DCT behavior. Finally had the clutches replaced in November, resulting performance was a little better, took it out one morning and drove it real hard, and voila it's back to good behavior. I suspect it's the software and in particular the "adaptive learning" that's the culprit. The software is close but still needs a little work (same with MFT). Your estimate of 95% may be a bit optimistic, but certainly most DCTs appear to work fine.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited January 2013
    OK, so dual clutch does have a problem, even the pioneer VW/Audi got nailed by "unexpected (therefore dangerous) neutral" syndrome due to overheating from heavy traffic & hot weather.

    So, bottom line -- the VW Tiguan & other VW's w/ the 5-cyl got away with a Toyota slushbox, just like how the previous Focus was equipped w/ Mazda's slushbox.

    At least my Golf 5-cyl 6-sp slushbox, when using manual mode, can leap off the line even more abruptly than its 5-sp manual version, not to mention the smaller-displacement turbo-lag GTI :P
  • kam327kam327 Posts: 115
    One very excellent review (IMO) was in Automobile Magazine which compared 5 cars (Dart, Focus, Maxda 3i, honda civic and hyundai elantra). I thought their treatment of the focus was fair and measured. It placed fourth of 5 but was judged the best drivers car. The criticism of the focus seem fair enough, not over the top.

    Careful though. Just a year earlier that same Focus placed first against several of the same cars. Kind of puts Automobile's objectivity and consistency into question.

    They point out that the Focus was easily the most expensive car in the comparo. That is one true fact about Ford, the price of all models has crept up between 1-2K over the past 2-3 years.

    In the July '11 comparo I referenced above the Focus had the lowest as tested price of the 6 cars tested.

    The Focus does seem to be a little more expensive than some of the competition, though it's hard to do an apples to apples comparison these days. And in my case I got such a huge discount (~%20) on my Focus that hands down I got way more value than I would've gotten with any other car in the segment. Of course I'm sure my experience violates Ford's pricing strategy.. ;)
  • podpod Posts: 176
    That is why I called the automobile magazine comparo fair with respect to the Focus. They praise many of its qualities but feel that the competition has improved and that some issues have been identified since july 2011 which is a long time ago. The Mazda skyactiv 3i won. It and the Dart Rallye(second place) were not around in 2011 and the third place Civic has been cosmetically freshened. They did not disrespect the Focus in fact chose it as the best drivers car by some distance. With respect to all facets (including price, interior, trim levels, etc.), however, they feel that the Focus has been engaged by some fine competition since 7/2011 and has lost the lead. I find that a reasonable conclusion, certainly not inconsistent given the significant time span between the reports.
    I would choose the Focus even among the current five (and always wonder whether the Mazda would have been a slightly better choice) but I am a Ford guy. The Improved Focus was new and revolutionary in 2011 but that was then. The competition has caught up for sure and it is a race again.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 700
    Ford doesn't use a CVT in the Focus. They use an automated dual-clutch gearbox.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,688
    I know that. I was comparing the way consumers react to the different feel of the DCT in the Focus to how they react to CVTs in other vehicles. In both cases they're working as designed but they feel different than a regular torque converter automatic.
  • I drive my Focus like a typical old man (easy starts/stops and nothing over 70mph) now I have noticed that when I do have to get on it (floor it) to get out of the way or pull out into traffic that my transmission goes back to the fussy shifting where it’s not sure which way to shift and the clutch shudder. Fortunately for me I have only had to get on a few times since owning it. It will take a week of driving it normal (for me) and then it will shift just as smooth as a baby’s rear end. I am just sayin
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