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2012 Ford Focus

1235744

Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Yep, the "Fast & Furious" crowd alright. Hope it works...
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,047
    Funny, you throw out a bunch of WAGs and when someone posts real numbers you question their accuracy because you don't happen to like them. Do you have legitimate numbers to reference other than your questionable little survey? I think even BMW, the "ultimate driving machine" only sells about 15% or less MT and they are offered in most of their models.

    Someone is always posting in these forums that "everybody I know drives a stick and I just don't understand why the manufacturers don't offer more of them". Well, it isn't a mystery. Sales numbers don't lie and believe me if kids(or adults) were in dealerships or writing letters demanding more MTs I think they would take note. IMO a lot of people say they want a stick but they don't end up buying one for many reasons other than lack of availibility.

    Also, knowing how to drive a MT and actually wanting to drive one for a daily driver are too different things. I grew up on MTs but long commutes and a lot of stop and go traffic quickly pushed me into auto trans.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Do you have legitimate numbers to reference other than your questionable little survey?"

    Ohhh, is that attitude? I said I didn't; what makes you think I've gotten my hands on them in the last few hours?

    "I think even BMW, the "ultimate driving machine" only sells about 15% or less MT and they are offered in most of their models."

    Sounds about right, but when you consider that a number of their higher end models aren't even available with a stick means that the take rate for those models that do have a manual transmission available is pretty high. I know that my BMW dealership in Bergen County New Jersey (NYC Metro Area) was bragging about how 50% of the 3-Series cars they sold were manual transmission models.

    "Someone is always posting in these forums that "everybody I know drives a stick and I just don't understand why the manufacturers don't offer more of them". Well, it isn't a mystery. Sales numbers don't lie and believe me if kids(or adults) were in dealerships or writing letters demanding more MTs I think they would take note. IMO a lot of people say they want a stick but they don't end up buying one for many reasons other than lack of availibility."

    From my perspective, numbers do in fact lie. I know any number of folks that would like to drive a stick but aren't willing to order their car and wait for it and/or the car they really want isn't available with a stick. My neighbor across the street is a prime example; his new Audi A6 is available in Europe with a stick (and pretty much everywhere else in the world where the A6 is sold), but not here. He felt the A4 was too small and his nearly 35% grade driveway mandates the best of the best of AWD systems given the winters we get here in New Hampshire, so the A6 is what he got and he "settled" for an automatic. So how do the numbers lie? In my experience, a number of ways:

    - Many dealers are reticent to order even one car with a stick for inventory/test drives
    - Many dealers actually try to talk you out of buying a car with a stick, "You don't really want a stick; driving a stick is dumb." One of my favorites is, "You don't really want a stick, the resale value is really poor." Uh-huh, sorry, I'm not buying the car for the chump after me, I'm buying it for ME. Funny thing, when I turned my 530i 5-Speed in at lease end the dealership I turned it in to (not my selling dealer; I'd moved four states away) they really weren't all that keen about taking yet another 530i in and putting it on their used car lot. That is, they really weren't all that keen until they found out that it was a 530i with the Premium Package, Sport Package, upgraded Audio, Xenon headlights, and a 5-Speed. They put it on the lot with a price of $2,000 more than otherwise comparable 530i (automatic) models and sold it in less than a week.
    - Some dealerships are so anti-stick that I've had three dealers actually refuse my down-payment on an order for a car with a stick because they were so sure that in the end I'd force them to eat the car and sell me an otherwise identical car with an automatic.

    Yeah, numbers lie; if sticks were in greater supply and if they were actually marketed the way manufacturers market their models with their wiz-bang CVTs and Dual-Clutch automatics, they'd sell two, maybe three times the number of cars with sticks than they currently do.

    "Also, knowing how to drive a MT and actually wanting to drive one for a daily driver are too different things. I grew up on MTs but long commutes and a lot of stop and go traffic quickly pushed me into auto trans."

    Sorry, gotta say it; sounds like a cop-out to me. Over my driving lifetime I've lived and commuted in San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose, Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, New York, and now Boston. I have well over a million miles under my belt and every time I'm saddled with a car with an automatic (typically a rental when I'm on the road), I hate it so much that as much as I love to travel, I cannot wait to get back home and drive a car with a real transmission.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 3,047
    Ohhh, is that attitude? I said I didn't; what makes you think I've gotten my hands on them in the last few hours?

    Yeah, I guess it is a little attitude. So what. Just think it's funny when people try to extrapolate a few opinions in their neighboorhood or circle of friends to represent the US population as a whole. I could take a poll in my neighboorhood and probably come up with just the opposite of the response that you say you got. What does it prove? That we live in different neighborhoods? Hardly scientific or statistically relevant.

    Sales numbers are sales numbers and I just find it hard to believe that all the market research people in all the auto companies have missed this great groundswell of people wanting sticks.

    MTs can be fun and there are solid advantages to them. But most people don't drive for fun. Sorry, if you feel people that drive automatics are "copping out". Copping out from what exactly? The joy of rowing the gears and pushing in the clutch while you creep along at 0-25 mph for an hour and a half in rush hour traffic. If all people had to do was drive the curvies with no particular place to go, yeah, maybe they would want MTs in greater numbers. But that is sadly, not reality.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,913
    edited March 2011
    The Future of the Manual Transmission

    That's where this conversation belongs, since we've lost focus on the Focus.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • markus5markus5 Posts: 102
    edited March 2011
    Looking at the relationship of the tail pipe and the fuel filler opening in most sedans w/ inline engines, you will find that they are on opposite sides. Not so on this one. Interesting.
    I will be taking my Focus in for lubrication this week. Perhaps there will be new models in the showroom. I'm sure that there will not be many manuals delivered into my region. That is fine with me. I drove all kinds of Sticks for nearly 40 years (the slickest one being on the Probe I bought in 89 which had that very fine Mazda unit in it). A couple of months after purchasing the Focus w/automatic in 03, I injured my left leg and would not have been able to use a clutch.( I must have been prescient ) I have one thing less to be concerned about with the automatic, that is sharing the vehicle. How many others feel as I did, that they are uniquely capable of driving a manual properly ?
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited March 2011
    I have one thing less to be concerned about with the automatic, that is sharing the vehicle. How many others feel as I did, that they are uniquely capable of driving a manual properly ?


    Good point! I think most stick drivers stink:

    1. Rev more than necessary & drain more fuel than auto tranny.

    2. Applying throttle in gear while coasting down hill.

    But what I really can't stand are:

    3. Leaving in first gear while waiting for the light to turn green -- leads to extra clutch wear (My '90 Mazda Protege DOHC has over 200k mi & still got nearly 1/2 of the clutch left!)

    4. Release the clutch in slow motion other than engaging 1st & reverse gear.

    5. Lugging w/o realizing it.

    6. Down shift w/o rev matching...

    You name it...
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited March 2011
    "3. Leaving in first gear while waiting for the light to turn green -- leads to extra clutch wear"

    How do you figure? When the car is left in gear at a light and the clutch pedal is pushed in, there is zero wear on the clutch friction material.

    "4. Release the clutch in slow motion other than engaging 1st & reverse gear."

    Depending upon the driving situation I routinely ease the clutch out when shifting between forward gears (as in both up and down the range). Assuming you're rev-matching properly, this will actually enhance clutch life versus dumping the clutch on each and every shift between gears.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited March 2011
    "3. Leaving in first gear while waiting for the light to turn green -- leads to extra clutch wear"

    How do you figure? When the car is left in gear at a light and the clutch pedal is pushed in, there is zero wear on the clutch friction material.

    Zero wear? Like the engine & tranny are completely disconnected? I hope so. But, w/ the clutch fully depressed, can you shift from neutral into 1st gear when the car is already rolling at fwy speed?

    "4. Release the clutch in slow motion other than engaging 1st & reverse gear."

    Depending upon the driving situation I routinely ease the clutch out when shifting between forward gears (as in both up and down the range). Assuming you're rev-matching properly, this will actually enhance clutch life versus dumping the clutch on each and every shift between gears.

    When shifting from neutral into gear, whether stick or auto, rev matching safely actually requires the engine speed to be at least as fast as the gear. Anything slower is damaging. So rev matching w/ the engine speed slightly higher is playing safe. My mechanic agrees.

    I always release the clutch quickly, other than engaging 1st & reverse gear. & how would you explain my clutch wear of only about 50% per 200k mi.?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited March 2011
    "Zero wear? Like the engine & tranny are completely disconnected? I hope so."

    Yes, zero wear and completely disconnected.

    "But, w/ the clutch fully depressed, can you shift from neutral into 1st gear when the car is already rolling at fwy speed?"

    What does that have to do with clutch wear? Engine damage yes, clutch wear, no.

    "I always release the clutch quickly, other than engaging 1st & reverse gear. & how would you explain my clutch wear of only about 50% per 200k mi.?"

    I don't have to explain it; your clutch wear isn't even remotely unusual.

    I'll be happy to continue this debate, however, as Kirstie suggested, the best place for doing so is over here: The Future of Manual Transmissions
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,456
    Keeping the clutch depressed at lights will not wear out the friction material, but it will wear out the throw out bearing. It is a bad habit. Put the car in neutral when stopped.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Throw-out Bearings" (now called Clutch Release Bearings) are not the wear item they used to be back in the 1960s. I've worked on many-many cars and have not seen even a single failed Clutch Release Bearing, regardless of mileage or how the clutch was used, on any even remotely modern car from the last three or four decades. In fact, I've seen cars to through two and even three clutch disks with the factory Clutch Release Bearing still in place.

    Said another way, keeping the clutch depressed at a light is a habit that is neither good or bad.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Is the 2012 Focus "good in the clutch"?

    ;) :P
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited March 2011
    dealer lots we can find out how the Focus SE 5-speed stick treats us. I for one want to know...perhaps I'll bop over ta Coeur d' Alene sometime soon to test drive one and find out.

    Ford has some real competition for my buying dollar from this new 2012 Kia Rio sedan and hatch. Watch this YouTube video showcasing the new '12 Rio hatchback. Pretty impressive job by Kia.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1Hu4S7-Gm8&feature=player_detailpage

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,221
    You do realize the Rio competes with the Fiesta/Accent/Fit/Versa/etc. crowd right? The Focus/Cruze/Civic/Elantra/Forte/etc. are all a step up and a size bigger than the Rio and it's competitors.

    Unless Kia made the dimensions of the Rio larger now to fit in with the rest of the C segment cars?
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    According to autoblog, the 2012 Rio is less than one inch longer than the prior version. So it definitely remains in Fiesta/Fit turf.

    Looks nice, btw, though I think the front is a bit too busy.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    I think the faster I get to 6th gear the better,because it's overdrive.On my 2010 VW I go from 2nd gear to 5th if i 'm above 30mph. The car does not lug . I even put inCC.On the display I get about 33 mpg.On the hi way 33 at 55mpg. That's not bad for 170HP 5 cyl.
    The VW is my winter beater. I have a 328 I that next month I'll take out of storage. I can go from second to 6th gear but I'm using the gas.
    However, if you can get your car say like in your top gear you are free wheeling and the better gas milage you get. I've never had a clutch go bad.
    I have to be doing something when I'm driving and having a stick is fun.I like to downshift alot too.I don't know what a DSG or dry clutch system does neither, do I care. I know Sticks are being phased out and the excuse they use is that a dsg is run by a computer and gets the same or better than a stick. I don't think you'll see too many German or Italian cars doing that.It's like the upholstery in most cars you get black or gray.Some of these car makers tell you what you get and half the time it's not what you want. So if your good working on cars go OEM. I had a 2008 Mazda I New vaue.I took out the cigarette lighter and replaced it with a 12v knob from Subaru and that dumb antenna I replaced with a shark finn from Acura and I put heated seats in for $800. I dumped it, the RSA eagles were unsafe and wore out @15k and the road noise was bad. Mazda still has the same problems and did away with the lumbar support and their options are exspensive. Have a good day.
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    I ordered my Ingot Silver, SEL, 303A package with remote start today. Now the 8+ week wait begins.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    edited March 2011
    I checked the 2012 Focus out on Ford's web site this morning and noticed that the "Build your own" pages for the Focus SE have been updated to include previously unmentioned options like the Keyless Entry Pad, the Exterior Protection Package, and the Focus Graphic Package, and contrary to previous reports which indicated the SE Sport Package was an error on the Ford site, this package is still available.

    I still want Auto-Wipers, Climate Control, and the Sony Audio System in a car with a stick-shift; but maybe the fact that they're still tuning how the Focus can be ordered means there's still hope that one will eventually be able to order a Titanium model with a five or even six speed manual. Hey, one can hope. :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    edited March 2011
    they ought to have a Titanium '12 Focus in the Goldfinger color that includes a 6-speed manual tranny, oughtn't they? Come on Ford!

    Oh...yes, I knew that the 2012 Kia Rio was a class size down...it just looks so righteous ta me that I'm jones-ing for it along with the new world order 2012 Ford Focus SE hatchback in 5-speed form with Ford's most kickin' stereo available in a Focus. Really, ta me the SE hatchback or even sedan with the 5-speed is lookin' good...real good.

    image<
    Really...Ford has done a good job with those wheels...16" and they're lookin good. I may want the compact size car over the Rio class-size. It will take closer scrutinizing and examination. 2 years time is available...I think it can be accomplished! :D

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    Edmunds' Insideline recently posted its 2012 Ford Focus v. 2011 Chevy Cruze comparo.

    http://www.insideline.com/ford/focus/2012/comparison-test-2011-chevrolet-cruze-l- tz-vs-2012-ford-focus-titanium.html

    Result: Focus soundly stomped the Cruze, although the writer made it a point to note the Cruze's overall decent performance. especially when compared to the Cobalt.
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    And another comparo at the Boston Globe:

    http://www.boston.com/cars/newsandreviews/overdrive/2011/03/ford_focus_chevrolet- _cruze_review.html

    This one mentions the noteable step-up in quality in both cars, compared to the Korean competitors. The writer also felt the Focus' sport suspension was a tad hard.
  • markus5markus5 Posts: 102
    edited March 2011
    " or even(a)sedan" .(?)

    Indeed, looking at pictures only at this point, I think that the sedan is the better looking one. The Hatch from the rear, appears to me much to generic. I know there are optical issues in photographing automobiles. I am looking forward to get to see these cars in person.

    Problem however for me is that for those occaisions when you need to expand the trunk, (a bicycle ), is there a fold down seat in the rear available for the sedan ? (split hopefully).
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    The SE, SEL and Titanium have 60/40 fold flat rear seats and the S has a full fold flat rear seat.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,713
    about the '12 Ford Focus sedan looking pretty good. It's true, the hatch looks generic on the sweeping fold around taillight. Have to see the cars in person, including the 2012 Kia Rio hatchback and sedan.

    The 2012 Ford Focus is starting to look more and more like a great choice for a solid compact car.

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    edited March 2011
    The Ti HB will give you 40 mpg if you get a SFE pkg. Sounds like Super Fuel Injection. I hope it doesn't mean $4.00 91 Octane. :confuse:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Super Fuel Economy. Fiesta has a package by the same name.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 797
    The Forte is clearly Kia's entry into the compact segment. With the addition of the new Forte 5-door hatchback for the 2011 model year, it can now be had in three distinct body styles- 2-door coupe (Koup, that is), 4-door sedan or 5-door Hatchback. The Forte is aimed squarely at the new Focus, Mazda3, Civic and Chevy Cruze!

    I've been surprised at how little the Forte 5-door has been publicized since it hit dealer lots last fall!??? Did Kia blow all of their annual marketing budget on all those commercials for the SOUL? They had to save some money by using rodents instead of paid actors in the ads, right? =)
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 797
    edited March 2011
    The SFE Package is only available on the SE 4-door sedan. It includes 16" steel wheels with unique area wheel covers, 16" Low Rolling Resistance Tires, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear Spoiler. It also adds active shutters to the grille intake- they close at higher speeds to reduce aerodynamic drag and open at lower speeds to maximize cooling.

    The package is a $495 option and is only available on the SE 4-door sedan with Automatic Transmission. All options available on regular SE 4-door models are available with the SFE Package, with the exception of the SE Sport Package.

    I'm surprised that the Power Moonroof can be ordered with the SFE Package. It has always been my experience that a large hole in the roof creates substantial drag!

    BTW- those "Unique Aero Wheel Covers" that are part of the SFE Package are HIDEOUS! They would be a deal-breaker for me...I'd just add Low Rolling Resistance Tires to a regular SE 4-door when I could afford to do so and call it a day!

    The SFE is rated at 40mpg highway, but all other Focus models with Automatic Transmission get 38mpg! A 2mpg improvement isn't all that amazing when the car already gets 38mpg highway without any engineering heroics! =)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I think Kia blew their early 2011 marketing budget on the Optima. I am seeing ads for it everywhere, including the Super Bowl. Optima is much more important for Kia than a Forte hatch--even if you and I prefer a Forte hatch.
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