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2012 Ford Focus

1679111227

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited April 2011
    I'm just here to remind people that the new Focus is not an updated version of the Ford Escort econobox, but rather, the equivalent product of the fancy foreign-technology Ford Probe FWD sporty car.

    Except the Probe was Japanese (Mazda) technology.

    If the new Focus also got rear leg room, then the other car companies might as well go bankrupt.

    And that is a problem for Ford... how? More likely, Ford didn't put more leg room in the Focus so it doesn't steal too many sales from the Fusion, which I expect has higher profit margins.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    This leg room thing is all an accident -- Ford didn't know it's gonna happen like that on the U.S.-spec Focus. So, yes, you have to end up in the next Fusion/Mondeo (same car) in order to solve this problem.

    Initially, when I checked out Fiesta sedan's exterior dimensions that matches my old Focus, I believed its cramp rear seating was done deliberately in order to protect the sales of the more expensive new Focus. Well, more expensive all right :sick:

    Except the Probe was Japanese (Mazda) technology.

    Japanese or German, at least the Focus is not domestic (read modern-day Pinto, such as the Mustang) :P
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    Am very glad to be able to finally buy a good sporty reliable compact car

    Do we know the Focus will be reliable already? Has this car already been sold as is in EU for a few years?

    The Mazdaspeed3 is the other alternative for me, and I do love the car but I couldn't stomach the grinning vomitous front end of that thing staring at me each morning when I walk toward the garage.

    If you love the car, you could back in instead. Their rear end is very handsome ;)

    It is a sight though, and they carried that theme look through a number of their other vehicles too. It does make one wonder; what were they thinking?

    Sam
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    It is a sight though, and they carried that theme look through a number of their other vehicles too. It does make one wonder; what were they thinking?

    Beats the domestic front ends anything from Chrysler to Chevy to Ford Edge/Fusion... Maybe Mazda's laughing at them!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    This leg room thing is all an accident -- Ford didn't know it's gonna happen like that on the U.S.-spec Focus.

    In other words, the folks at Ford are idiots, with zero engineering smarts? I don't think so. They knew exactly what they were doing: "If you want rear seat room, come buy a Fusion!"
  • samm43samm43 Member Posts: 195
    I do like the front end of the new Focus (way) better than the Fusion. My guess is, the new Fusion will have the Focus treatment fr end. The last few years or so, all Ford front ends, even the trucks (except the Ranger) have this sort of slabbed, grilled front end, whose chrome looks like plastic chrome. Or maybe it is, I have never gotten up that close, but I doubt it is as it wouldn't stand up to nicks on the front. IMO, the look would seem better suited to a modern-look store selling computers or PDA's.

    Sam
  • faroutfarout Member Posts: 1,609
    Beware of the Focus price. I test drove a Focus proced at $ 22,000. The salesman said there was ONLY $ 400. profit in Focus and no mark up, so no real discount. This was a huge dealer by Columbia MO dealwe standards. But in a rural town I checked out the Focus and they had $ 2500. discount.

    Sales people say what they are told to say, not what the sales mamanger knows.

    I will fix my Dodhe Neon before buying a new small cor!
  • bricknordbricknord Member Posts: 85
    This is the totally wrong time to buy a new small fuel efficient car.

    Why?

    1. Supply of Japanese imports has been slightly constrained due to natural disaster, or at least there is the perception of this happening. Supply and demand...perceived (or real) supply shortage, higher prices.

    2. Relatively high fuel prices. Fuel efficient cars become hot on the market. Less sense of urgency on the sellers part means less aggressive pricing for the buyer.

    3. Season. We were always a little busier during spring and summer than we were in winter. November and December were slow, due to people worried about holiday expenditures, etc. Try to buy a new car during slower times, more haggling power.

    4. New vehicle introductions. A lot of really good little efficient cars have just recently had refresh or redesigns hit the market. Cruze, Focus, Elantra, Civic, etc. Never buy a car when it is new, dealer stock is limited, and demand is high. Prices are at their highest, and financing deals typically lowest. You should wait until inventories have built up and the initial demand has slowed down. Better leverage for negotiations. When the new shine of the product launch has died down, you'll do better.

    If you could do it, it would probably be smart to wait until late fall to buy.

    There might be the occasional deal, like for instance Mazda will probably blow out the old M3s since SkyNet (SkyActiv) is coming out soon. As long as you don't mind getting the old, less efficient car, it might be a buying opportunity soon.

    As far as the Focus goes, I wouldn't mind picking one up, but this would be a poor time to do so. Very little negotiating power on the part of the buyer.
  • cannon3cannon3 Member Posts: 296
    The Focus will be "expensive" for the first year of production. Remember Econ 101 folks. Supply/Demand ring a bell?? My bet is Ford will come in line with all the other small cars like Civic/Corolla/Elantra or whomever to be competitive. This is why I am waiting until next year to even look at the Focus to replace my 06 Fusion. Once dealer lots fill up they will want to talk price, believe me it will happen.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    It sounds to me like too many people expect their cars to be rolling living rooms these days. I did a bit of research to compare the rear seat leg room to a couple cars my folks had when I was a kid (with 2 sibling) and it is in about the same size range. We'd often drive 500 miles with just one 10 minute stop for gas and neither I nor my folks recall anyone whining about the room.

    But again, did your parents even need to use child seats back then? I don't believe child seats became required by law until the late 70s through mid 80s. I know my dad and mom, aunt and uncle would cram themselves and two toddlers on lap, until their old beetle and go roadtripping back in the day. That certainly wouldn't fly today.

    Someone mentioned above about Europeans needing kid's seats and such, and don't they have the same issue. I lived in Munich 7 years and yes they have the same issue, but its mitigated by the fact that most don't expect the car to be a 5 star hotel lobby. Plus in my experience if a German kid kicks the back of his parent's seat more than inadvertently he/she will be promptly and properly disciplined so it doesn't happen again - something many parents in the USA need to learn.

    Now if that's the only issue, I'm fine with that. I've got no problem with forcing my kids to be content with less room. But physically not being able to use a child seat / booster seat-- that's a whole other issue.
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    Plus, I think it's better to avoid a first year for a whole new model. Let them work the kinks out a bit before you jump in.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "It sounds to me like too many people expect their cars to be rolling living rooms these days."

    While I suspect your comment is a bit tongue-in-cheek, the fact remains that unless an adult can sit comfortably in the back seat (i.e. without their knee caps drilling into the back of the front seat) of any given car when the front seat is set for another adult, then the leg room is too limited for my requirements.

    Long story short, there is a 3.1" difference in overall legroom between the 2011 Mazda3 and the 2012 Focus, and that is the difference between knee caps being embedded in the back of the front seat and being able to sit comfortably.
  • smallcar1smallcar1 Member Posts: 76
    You are certainly right. I sat in a Mazda3 and I adjusted the seat to where I would sit while driving (I am 5'9') and my friend who is 5'11" was able to sit comfortably in the Mazda3 but there was certainly not 3" to spare.

    The Focus will have to ride much more smoothly and have less road noise or else people will buy the Mazda3 when it comes out with the more efficient engine unless they want all the technology in the Focus. I think many people would prefer the simple buttons in the Mazda3 to the MyFord touch.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    In other words, the folks at Ford are idiots, with zero engineering smarts? I don't think so. They knew exactly what they were doing: "If you want rear seat room, come buy a Fusion!"

    So this was intentional? A conspiracy?

    I thought I was trying to help Ford to justify why there's no rear leg room -- Only cars that are not good enough to satisfy the driver need to satisfy back-seat drivers (literally) at this price range. When the new roomy Corolla came out about 9 years ago, I was quite shocked & wondering who needs a 4-cyl Camry any more... But there was a catch -- The Corolla's roomy back seat was uncomfortably shaped while the steering wheel was too far away for most drivers.

    Again, trying to compare the new Focus to the Elantra, etc. is not making sense at all. A "good steering feel & ride comfort" BMW & a bus may both cost about the same, but that's where the similarity ends :P
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I also give the steering tops in class. I would say the Civic we had probably was close. The Cruze, in comparison to the Focus, felt too nervous on center and darty--you were always going slightly left or right unless you paid 100% attention. The Jetta steering is good, but not quite as natural in feel as the Focus. The Elantra has the most vague and least precise steering. It's the Buick of the bunch in steering feel. Again, the Focus has the best compromise of quick steering but not too darty. Good job, Ford. My steering/handling rank would be Focus, Civic, Jetta, Cruze, Elantra.

    You would say the Civic you had probably was close? That's not saying much good about the new Focus' electric steering!

    '09 Civic Si:
    "That steering drew unanimous scorn¡Xagain. In the past, unkind words such as ¡§video game¡¨ have been uttered in anger to describe the Si¡¦s steering, but in all honesty, the most modern of those games¡¦ wheels probably work better...The steering shortcomings put a serious damper on the fun meter, and they sap driver confidence... Steering keeps secrets from the driver."

    & to answer your question about the next Civic...
    "Our biggest gripe though, especially for the Si, is that the engineers have also managed to dial out what little road feel through the steering that the car had to begin with. Driver¡¦s may be able to sense what¡¦s happening underneath the Si via the suspension, but don¡¦t expect much communication from this new tiller."

    No wonder Honda is now providing big 2.4 displacement hoping to save the new Civic's [non-permissible content removed]. :D
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited May 2011
    So this was intentional?

    You think the amount of rear leg room in the Focus was an accident? As if Ford spent years developing this car, and then they review the finished product and say, "Wait a minute, look at this! The rear seat room is a lot less than we designed!!" That doesn't seem like a realistic scenario to me.

    Again, trying to compare the new Focus to the Elantra, etc. is not making sense at all.

    Quick, you'd better alert all the automotive writers out there! They're comparing the Focus to the Elantra!! They must have all taken leave of their senses to do such a thing, eh?
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    You think the amount of rear leg room in the Focus was an accident? As if Ford spent years developing this car, and then they review the finished product and say, "Wait a minute, look at this! The rear seat room is a lot less than we designed!!" That doesn't seem like a realistic scenario to me.

    The car is suppose to be a shortened Mondeo/S80, so it's not suppose to be that short. I remember the version I sat in over a year ago actually had a little more rear stretch-out leg room than in the new Mazda3, then the version at the LA Autoshow totally changed. So I believe that this is just the U.S.-spec trying to score higher in the crash tests.

    In Europe's comparsion,

    the current Golf...
    "Sit behind the driver, and there¡¦s barely any less space than in its longer rivals, with generous rear legroom and the most headroom on test."

    & the new Focus...
    "occupants in the rear get marginally more leg and shoulder room than they¡¦ll find in the Golf."

    & despite having no rear leg-room issues, the new Euro-spec Focus (w/ sport suspension) still has a tough time beating the current Golf for overall score.

    How come no body is comparing the new Focus to the Golf here? How about asking our HOST to create a new thread "new Focus w/o sport suspension vs the soft-riding Golf 2.5"? I can't wait to collect the results!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    So I believe that this is just the U.S.-spec trying to score higher in the crash tests.

    And this attempt by Ford to score higher in crash tests was accidental, or do you think just maybe Ford made a conscious decision to do that?

    Ford is very lucky VW chose this year to de-content the Jetta. Or it would eat the Focus' lunch. Handling and rear-leg room. What a concept. Even the old Jetta had more rear leg room than the new Focus. And the Golf has much more usable leg room than the Focus hatch.
  • bricknordbricknord Member Posts: 85
    edited May 2011
    The new Focus handles and rides better than any current Jetta. This will, of course, probably change when the GLI is out. I've driven the current S, SE, and TDI Jettas. One of my main gripes is the poorly balanced suspension of the new Jetta--either the front is too soft, the rear too stiff, or both. This comes from a lifelong VW fan. Go drive a Jetta S, and SE 2.5--then go drive a new Focus. Tell me if you don't agree.

    Keep in mind that had VW not decontented the car, it would likely have been priced significantly higher than an average Focus. The Focus I drove was a smidge under $18k. You would probably not have seen a Jetta anywhere in that price league if they hadn't decontented/repositioned the car.

    This being said, I saw a Focus hatch on the lot when I was there for right around $28k. A nice car, but I have to question spending $28k on a Focus, no matter how good, in the US at least. Talk about a depreciation hit when you go to trade or sell that car. The market for a nearly $30k Focus has got to be pretty limited. I'd say anything over low $20's would really be testing the limits of what Americans are going to pay for a car like this. Some folks will pay for the perceived cachet of driving a Jetta, etc. Some of them will buy a $28k Jetta. A $28k Focus, no matter how good, will be a tough sell. The public perception of what a Focus is worth isn't remotely in the $28k range, I don't think.
  • bricknordbricknord Member Posts: 85
    edited May 2011
    I didn't have an SI, I had an EX-L. The steering was very accurate on that car, and did not have an unnatural feel--althought it was a bit light for my taste. I have not driven a current SI, which most of your quotes focus on, so I can't comment on that model. Like I said, I would rank the current Focus as having steering feel that is quite good. The Civic was also on the better end of the scale, but not as well weighted. These are just my subjective impressions based on ownership of a 2009 Civic, and a test drive of the new Focus SE sedan. I have not driven the current Civic yet.
  • bricknordbricknord Member Posts: 85
    edited May 2011
    I've driven the current 5 cylinder Golf, but it has been a while.

    A VW Golf is really my perfect car in theory. I've owned VW Golfs from 1981 models through the MK4 series, all four generations. I have not owned a MK5 Rabbit/Golf, but have driven them, and owned a MK5 Jetta.

    My big problem with the current Golf is two-fold:

    First, you can't get a stick shift with the four door. Stupid. If I can buy a 4-door stick GTI, should be able to get a Golf the same way. Major minus to me.

    Second, and more importantly, I find it really, really tough to justify buying a new car the size of a Golf these days with such crummy MPG. You're barely cracking 30 highway with a 4 door Golf automatic 2.5. That stinks. Real world MPG is going to be in the 25 range much of the time. I can buy an Elantra, Civic, Focus, etc that gets far better. Yeah, I know, you can get a diesel Golf. I don't want one. This, by the way, is a major downfall of the current Mazda3, as well, but Mazda is handling this if I'm not mistaken, soon.

    The Focus hatch suddenly looks way more attractive to this long time VW owner. Likely low to mid 30's average MPG, close to 40 highway, and just as fun to drive as the Golf.

    The Golf has a signifcantly nicer interior, and probably a little more usable rear seat. What was decent fuel economy 5 years ago to me has changed these days, though. When you can get a SkyActiv M3 hatch or Focus hatch with nearly 40 mpg on gasoline, I would think the life of the VW Golf in the US would get really tough.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    This being said, I saw a Focus hatch on the lot when I was there for right around $28k. A nice car, but I have to question spending $28k on a Focus, no matter how good, in the US at least. Talk about a depreciation hit when you go to trade or sell that car. The market for a nearly $30k Focus has got to be pretty limited. I'd say anything over low $20's would really be testing the limits of what Americans are going to pay for a car like this. Some folks will pay for the perceived cachet of driving a Jetta, etc. Some of them will buy a $28k Jetta. A $28k Focus, no matter how good, will be a tough sell. The public perception of what a Focus is worth isn't remotely in the $28k range, I don't think.

    & people still think a Golf can be worth up to $40k?

    That's the whole point. This new Euro Ford should not be named Ford Focus in America, where the original lemon already ruined its reputation. Almost a decade ago, the Focus here had an expensive stability-control option nobody bothered with. Ditto the HID projector headlights, etc. Then people whined about decontenting for the U.S.-spec Focus.

    Call this superb-dynamic Euro-design car a FWD Jaguar, Aston Martin, etc., then no one will complain about the rear leg room. Oops, too late, Ford already sold these nameplates...
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Keep in mind that had VW not decontented the car, it would likely have been priced significantly higher than an average Focus. The Focus I drove was a smidge under $18k. You would probably not have seen a Jetta anywhere in that price league if they hadn't decontented/repositioned the car.

    I don't think that is the case. The Focus SEs I saw a week ago didn't have much in the way of equipment and listed for $21-22k. I doubt a similarly-equipped Jetta (non-decontented) would be more than that, based on Golf 4-door prices. A Golf 4-door with moonroof is about the same price as the Focus SE hatch with moonroof that I saw. And a basic Golf 2-door starts at under $19k including destination... very close to that stripped Focus you drove. Based on my inspection of the SE, I'd rather have the Golf if they are in the same price range.

    I wouldn't pay $28k for any compact car... unless maybe it came from Bavaria.
  • lostlost Member Posts: 64
    I just got done building a 2012 Focus SEL hatch auto with 302A package and the VW 2011 Golf 4 door with auto and all the options available and the difference between the two was $300. The Focus gets better MPG and has leather and more equipment then the VW. The Focus has more cargo area, the VW has 2 inches more of second row legroom. Go to the web sites and build your own. You can own a great Focus for 23,000 NOT 28,000.
  • tomcatt630tomcatt630 Member Posts: 124
    edited May 2011
    I disagree about "Focus name = :lemon: "

    And, there is a lot of buzz about the Titanium edition. If Honda can offer loaded Civics with leather for mid $20K, why not Ford? And no one is forcing people to only buy top of the line.

    It's not the early 90's where Escorts were all $10499. Remember inflation still exists, so if don't like new car MSRP's, buy used.

    And what's the fuss about Focus' reat seat room? This isn't the full sized segment. Checked back seat at Auto Show and it's a compact, get a Taurus or minivan if carrying a family.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    The Focus has more cargo area, the VW has 2 inches more of second row legroom.

    Only 2 inches? Maybe, if you're only measuring the knee room.

    Despite Golf's narrow rear seating, my slim 5"11" frame can stretch out my legs all the way (yes, both front & back) comfortably when sitting on these high chairs. The new Focus' back seat feels like obsolete.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    My big problem with the current Golf is two-fold:

    First, you can't get a stick shift with the four door...


    The Focus stick has rear doors, but when will you be using them? LOL

    Which car would you rather have? A 2-dr car w/ an useful back seat? Or a 4-dr car w/ an useless back seat?

    Aren't you glad that after the recent major facelift, the current Golf 2-dr has added height adjustment for the front passenger seat, which can be raised so you can freely stretch out your legs? Only the discontinuation of optional rear A/C vents is a disadvantage for the 2-dr Golf. Besides, have you ever thought about how enjoyable it is to sit in the back of the 2-dr Golf having unobstructed panoramic peripheral view through the one-piece side glass, along w/ great ride comfort? ;) & which other 2-dr cars got comfy seating in the back?

    Stop being a cheapskate. Which other German import will actually end up costing you less $ overall than the reliable 5-cyl Golf? :D

    The only reason I don't own one is b/c its electric steering provides too little feel, so I ended up collecting a manual-steering noisy Mk1 Jetta coupe instead...
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    C class cars are not econobxoes anymore

    Exactly, especially w/ that expensive price tag & expensively built multi-link rear supension in order to optimize the ride/handling compromise not unlike the Mercedes C-Class. Therefore, the rear seating of a "classy" C class shouldn't feel like inside of a penalty box, either! :P
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "And what's the fuss about Focus' reat [sic] seat room? This isn't the full sized segment. Checked back seat at Auto Show and it's a compact, get a Taurus or minivan if carrying a family."

    Me thinks your comments are a bit disingenuous. Why? Because there are plenty of cars in class which do offer enough rear seat room to park adults, the Jetta and the Mazda3 chief among them.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    To a lot of folks, a Ford compact car = Pinto, or a modern derivative of it.

    The German engineered new Focus does have something in common -- a useless back seat, but that where the similarity ends!

    A nice car, but I have to question spending $28k on a Focus, no matter how good, in the US at least.

    Since Europe never had a Pinto, it is OK to sell the new Focus at premium price over there I guess.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    And a basic Golf 2-door starts at under $19k including destination... very close to that stripped Focus you drove. Based on my inspection of the SE, I'd rather have the Golf if they are in the same price range.

    W/o AC or a CD player...I can't remember the last time I had even been in a car that was just an AM/FM radio, or without AC for that matter. Even Honda has included AC on the DX since 2006 at least.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Uh... no. The base Golf is pretty well equipped. You must be thinking of the base Jetta.
  • bricknordbricknord Member Posts: 85
    edited May 2011
    BTW, having driven a Jetta S (the most base trim you'll likely ever see although technically there is a base trim sans A/C), I can tell you that the Focus and Elantra are in a totally different (superior) league. The Jetta SE might be able to compete, but a Jetta S automatic compared to a similar trim Elantra or Focus, not even close. Jetta wins on interior volume. That's it. I'm not talking just interior, either, I'm talking how the cars perform on the road. Frankly, aside from acceleration, which is really nice with the Jetta SE/manual trans combo, the Jetta SE is outclassed in many areas when compared to the Focus (and Hyundai).

    As has been pointed out, the base Golf is a completely different animal than the Jetta sedan.
  • snakebitsnakebit Member Posts: 2
    I would consider the wife and I as older and mature about transportation costs. Now in our 50's, we have "been there-done that" when it comes to buying new and throwing monetary caution to the wind over the previous decades. Now we drive paid for vehicles and relish in the total cost per mile that is now possible using tools like AutoTrader database searches for low mileage older cars.
    (eg. Near mint 1997 Escort wagon with 22,000 miles for $4200.00. Not sexy. Incredibly cheap transport. We now spend our money visiting the Amalfi coast of Positano Italy and eating\drinking the worlds cuisine. Our cup is full)

    I say all that to say this. She flat out loves this car. I'm gonna get her one. Yea, the back seat ain't much. We both agreed we would't be sitting back there. lol We are convinced the grandbabies car seat will fit just fine though.

    I haven't seen her feel this strongly about a car since her late 80's convertable Mustang. (5.0 without the "wings and stuff" Just like the Highway Patrol drove, but topless, she said)

    Anyways, I was impressed with how well done the whole package was. And with fuel prices suddenly remenicient of those in Italy too, I am stunned you can get this kind of economy in a car that offers so much ELECTIVE upscale options. Thank you Ford. I do believe you finally got it!!

    I think we will go the SEL with 301A package. Seems like the sweet spot. (for us) All the gizmos that make you forget you are in a C class, short of leather. And still just tickling 23K

    Friends and family will be shocked the 2 old fogies bought a brand new car. We don't do that. Goes against our philosophy. It's that nice of a car. Gonna see if we can get 40mpg crossing Texas while listening to our fav tunes from the 80's on that marvelous 10 speaker Sony.
  • lcw1lcw1 Member Posts: 36
    We are old like you and liked the Focus after a test drive, however we didn't like it enough to part with 23.5K especially when you can get a well equipped Accord, Camry, Fusion or Hyundai Senata for that price. Sure you loose 5 miles to the gallon but spending additional $200/year more on Gas per year is worth the added comfort, power and safety of a larger vehicle. If the objective is to save on gas our choice goes to the VW Golf TDI that has similar features plus gets better gas mileage, has 17'' wheels, Lumbar support and is very pleasant to drive. I hope the Focus takes off and makes Ford plenty of money but as a middle of the road consumer who admittedly lacks marketing savvy I doubt that you will see steady buyers at those prices. Hope you enjoy your Focus.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    ...whom is well into his or her fifties that doesn't really like being considered "old"? Yeesh, I still like sporty cars with manual transmissions, stiff suspensions and plenty of get-up-and-go; I still run twenty or more miles per week, play soccer with my son, and am active enough to still have to visit the hospital for various stitches and broken bones and such. :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    No.
  • snakebitsnakebit Member Posts: 2
    Coincidently, we have been waiting\watching for low mileage Jetta TDI's every since they returned to our shores a couple of years ago. It WAS definately going to be her next car. (for exactly the reasons you mention)

    2 problems though.......
    First, the ones currently showing up are holding their value so well that they hardly could be considered a steal. Of course this is very good news if you are the purchaser of a new Jetta TDI!

    Second, unfortunately, the early new TDI's (post 2006 models) are not exactly earning a reputation of high reliability? Some are having serious issues. (TDI forums are great too) There are signs VWA may be getting a handle on the bigger issues with the latest release. But it will take time to know for sure.

    Admittedly the new Focus is likely healing her wounds of dissapointment in not being as excited about a used TDI as she once was. Combine that with 3 different Ford escorts she has had great luck with over the past 30 years, the Ford might be easier for her to trust. (she loves cars. She is too funny)

    (I am a Ford Super Duty Redneck. The whole family is. Have been for years. But we have ventured outside the Blue Oval on a few Infinities and Toyotas)

    And finally, that Focus that she likes STICKERS at 23K. Likely can be had for closer to 21. Frankly, it was much more FUN equipped so nicely than a 21K Fusion or Accord. And her sister has a loaded Civic that cost even more that she finds uninspiring.

    Regardless, I love it when something gets her that jazzed. She is pretty unflappable. The new Focus tickled her fancy. Thank you Ford. You make this easier for me. :)
  • humblepatiencehumblepatience Member Posts: 1
    So let's compare the Sonata Limited vs the
    Sonata limited: 28.5K

    Focus Titanium /w Premium package (leather, etc), parking tech, and nav: 26.75K

    So a price difference of around 2k.

    Pros of the focus:

    Rain sensing whipers
    Everything is voice command
    Traffic, weather, etc deliveried via voice command
    Pandora + Sticher integration
    Vehicle health reports
    Hatchback (utility)
    Paralell parks itself

    Sonata pluses:
    Bigger back seat
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Now perform that same comparison between the Focus and the Mazda3 and you'll see a much different story. The Mazda has nearly as many goodies as the Focus, can be had with a stick for all trim levels, has much more rear seat room, and is thousands less. What's not to like.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    What's not to like.

    That big, buck toothed grin on the Mazda!!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited May 2011
    On that account, I happen to agree. Here's hoping the "face-lifted" 2012 Mazda3 presents a better looking schnozzle to the world. :)

    FWIW, while I much prefer the looks of the Focus over the Mazda3, the fact remains that the Mazda is a far better thought out car (or at least will be when the new SkyActiv engines and transmissions debut). If I had to choose between the two there's little doubt in my mind I'd choose the Mazda in spite of how good the Focus looks.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    On that account, I happen to agree. Here's hoping the "face-lifted" 2012 Mazda3 presents a better looking schnozzle to the world.

    Nah - looks like they just gave it a mouthguard!!

    http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2012-mazda3-0/#4074350
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    heh...I love big grills...Audi, Chrysler 300, CTS.

    That big dumb looking M3 grill looks so...dumb (must be PC here...). They could have had a cool looking car, instead it looks like the lovable idiot (think cletus from the simpsons).

    There's something i don't trust about a big permanent smile...

    The Focus design looks much more harmonious.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited May 2011
    The Focus looks handsome, the Mazda3 does handsome (from a utility and drive perspective).
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    MPG is behind the times. I know they are coming out with some new tech engine wise which will drastically change that equation but right now the 3's mpg pales in comparison to Focus and others in the class. Maybe they'll fix the grin too and all will be well in Mazdaland.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I wouldn't even consider a 2011 Mazda3; my 2009 Mazda3 is just fine thank you. That said, I would very much consider a 2012 SkyActiv-G or better still, a 2013 SkyActiv-D.

    The above said, considering how much less the 2011 Mazda3 costs versus the 2012 Focus (as close to apples to apples as one can get), you can buy a bunch of gas with the difference. I suspect on a cost per mile basis, the two are pretty comparable. That of course will change when SkyActiv becomes a reality. :)

    What really annoys me about all of this is that I was so bent on getting a new Focus (even through Ford discriminates against those of us whom prefer manual transmissions), even to the point of trading in my prefectly good 2009; then I got into the front driver's seat, sit to my liking and then shoehorned my way into the left rear seat. That killed the deal right there.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    I know I know. I own an '07 Focus & a "'91 Escort equivalent" '90 Protege. So the new Focus is a joke on rear leg room, while costing more than an Elantra similarly equipped. & now some people are even comparing the new Focus to the similarly priced Sonata? Just remember, the Focus & Hyundai sedans are opposites of each other, as they serve completely different purposes. The Focus is designed to satisfy drivers, while Hyundai sedans (all the way to the Equus) are designed to satisfy back-seat drivers.

    People expect the Focus to be an inexpensive noisy boom box w/ adult-size rear leg room. The new Focus has none of the above. So therefore should be renamed in order not to confuse consumers.

    But Ford is afraid to call it the Ford Probe coupe b/c it's got rear doors? Come on, this is the 21th Century. Coupes can have rear doors. Just check out the more cramped-&-expensive versions of the Mercedes E-class & VW Passat sedans -- the CLS & CC, respectively. & what about the RX-8 sports car?

    Do you know that the more expensive CC version of the Passat actually costs less to lease than its roomier sedan version? B/c the more-attractive CC has better resale value due more buyers waiting for it.

    Comparing the Sonata to the new roomy Jetta makes more sense.
  • creakid1creakid1 Member Posts: 2,032
    edited May 2011
    Now perform that same comparison between the Focus and the Mazda3 and you'll see a much different story. The Mazda has nearly as many goodies as the Focus, can be had with a stick for all trim levels, has much more rear seat room, and is thousands less. What's not to like.

    That's a good question. Is the Mazda3 noisier especially when cruising on the fwy?

    About 20 yrs ago, I was comparing the Mazda Protege to its Ford-verision Escort/Tracer, which are also available w/ the Mazda 1.8 DOHC. I really prefer the styling of the Tracer sedan, but I ended up w/ the made-in-Japan Protege for quality reason. Especially when comparing to Escort's std smooth/comfy set up that glides over bumps, the Mazda's suspension tuning has quick rebound which bounces the whole car right afterward just as high as each of the bump it just soaked up. But the solution was to try out different aftermarket shock absorbers & ended up w/ Monroe & Gabriel solving the problem.

    Today, Gabriels are too hard. But I'm pretty sure Monroe will solve Mazda3's quick nervous rebound motion. So far, the early Mazda3's are available w/ Monroe shocks.

    I prefer the exterior styling of the Rabbit/GTI V over the Golf/GTI VI, but I'm kind of annoyed by the MkV's inside door handle located so far aft for the driver. Ditto the new Focus. Like the old Focus, the new Mazda3 wins in this little detail, just like every '90-91 Protege (1, 2)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Even though my age is well into AARP land, I still very much prefer a stiffly suspended car with excellent handling over pretty much anything else. My 2009 Mazda3 (with 17" wheels and shod with modestly sized 205/50 R17 Michelin Pilot Sports) deals with the bumps and "frost heaves" we get here in New Hampshire better than any good handling car I've ever driven this side of a BMW, Audi or VW GTI. So while you may not like the "quick rebound" of Mazda suspensions, I actually enjoy them.

    Is the Mazda a bit noisy at freeway speeds? Yes, but tolerably so, and as I understand it, the Gen 2 Mazda3 is much improved in that department.
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