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2011 Ford Explorer

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Comments

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...So where does the safety risk come in.."

    If you're stopped, stuck, or moving only very slowly there is, basically, no risk to a FWD or F/awd vehicle operating on a slippery surface. On the other hand if you at a speed, and road conditions, wherein momentum will be a serious factor in maintaining, helping to maintain, or worse yet, adverse to directional control then you quite clearly need the entire traction coefficient dedicated to lateral control. So, as you can readily see, a slipping or spinning front drive wheel or wheels can almost instantly result in loss of directional control.

    A spinning or slipping rear wheel can also prove to be detrimental, especailly to a driver inexperienced with driving on adverse or slippery road conditions. But again, and anyone can see, directional control is easily, more easily vs FWD or F/awd. maintained.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Unfortunately he's not a prankster - he actually believes what he says.

    We've had the same discussion on multiple forums but he still thinks he's right and everyone else in the world is wrong.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Can you tell me why you insist on attacking me personally, in a global" sense instead of using your intelligence, logic and obvious knowledge to refute my thoughts and logical positions...?

    Why not, instead, advise everyone, in detail, what, where, and how I'm wrong??

    "Instead the post could be dangerous for people not familiar with the real world safety enhancements of AWD."

    How so..?

    No one is denying that there are safety enhancements to "AWD", even F/awd.

    But ALL have limitations, some more detrimental than others.

    Would you much rather that everyone be blind to the shortcomings of the differing, VASTLY differing, "AWD" systems out there in the marketplace today? Maybe so, since you seemingly insist on continuing to use the "AWD" term generically rather than even adopting the more definite F/awd or R/awd terms.
  • vrmvrm Posts: 301
    The Range Rover will give you the options you are looking for. However, it will only cost $35,000 more than the Ford Explorer.

    Are you ready to put your money where your mouth is??
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    I would first buy the 4runner.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "...Why don't you share with everyone else what vehicle you drive.."

    My daily driver is a 2001 F/awd RX300.

    Also have a 1994 R/awd Ford Aerostar for "planned" excursions into wintertime conditions, snow skiing, etc.

    2001 Porsche 911/996 C4 that remains garaged throughout the winter.

    And yes, I am of the firm belief that on ice and packed snow a summer tire with more surface contact area will always outperform most any specialty winter tire. For those "in between" conditions I always have a set of tire chains on board the RX, two sets in wintertime. First set for the rear wheels and second set for the fronts if need be.

    I do live and work on the Seattle eastside so I more often go to wintertime conditions rather than have them come to me.
  • They are dominant when it comes to sales and they are the dominant SUV in North America.The new 2011Ford Explorer is seems an updated version of the Taurus X, which is a good one........., one of my friend had one for last 3 years and love it. I hope this new Explorer 2011 should be great, looking forward to getting the first one that arrives at our dealer. So atleast I can get to drive it once.................. :)
  • I must be one of those few folks hat is not willing to compromise on safety when I moving around the Blue Ridge Mountains here in Virginia. What I am looking for is the full-time all-wheel-drive mid-size SUV that MINIMIZES the chance of EVER losing traction, anytime, anywhere.
    I don't care about F/awd, R/awd, TC or any other cheaper way of getting the job done for the 95% solution.
    Does any current AWD system in a mid-size SUV or crossover (other than Range Rover) offer at least some torque full-time to all four wheels?
    This sounds like Subaru to me but what about Ford, GMC, Jeep?
    Do those of you who know more than me have any suggestions without telling me I ought to be satisfied with that 95% solution?
    Thanks.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Subaru, Jeep Grand Cherokee are probably your best bets.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited August 2010
    I am of the understanding that the Toyota 4runner has a full-time R/awd system that uses a "Torsen" center torque sensing differential ("transfer case") to dynamically allocate engine torque to the front driveline. It also has the ability to lock the center differential for a true 4WD "part-time" mode.

    I don't remember if it has a true 4X4 mode, granny-grunt low range, but I consider that useless for my purposes anyway.

    Once the 4runner V6 gets DFI and a 6(9) speed automatic it will be a real contender for my next SUV purchase.

    Now that the Explorer has gone over to the 95% market, FWD or F/awd, the 4runner is likely to have the 3rd seat row market in it's class all to itself. On the other hand we might soon see the 4runner shifting over toward the 95% market using the new electrohydraulic clutch system but to couple in the front drive dynamically just as Porsche now does with the new 911/997 C4 and C4S.

    Unlike the Torsen the new electrohyraulic coupling system could easily reduce the torque drive to the front incrementally as lateral, turning, G-forces build up.

    A 4runner with a DFI V6, 6 speed, and electrohydraulic, dynamically coupled or LOCKED front drive (no weighty transfer case), and I would dump my RX300 IMMEDIATELY.
  • rhlrhl Posts: 1
    After reading many of the articles on the 2011 Explorer one thing I found missing was that there will be no Diesel offering. Doing a little research on the web I found a few interesting facts on Ford Diesel engines. The new Ford 4.4 L diesel made in Mexico is to be used by the Land Rover and not on any Ford vehicle and is estimated to get 30 MPG! Also Ford in the UK manufactures a 3.0 L V6 Diesel (AJ-V6D Gen III) and a 3.6 L V8 Diesel (Lion V8) that is used in the Land Rover and Jaguar. The V6 produces 235 Hp and 368 Ft LB the V8 268 and 472 ft lb (verses 290 hp and 255 ft lb of the 2011 Explorer’s gasoline V6) so both would be more than adequate for the new Explorer and most likely give better than 30 mpg given their smaller displacement than the 4.4 L and the lighter weight of the Explorer. So the question is why does Ford continue not to offer a diesel? A diesel would provide better fuel mileage and provide better towing capability.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Same reason nobody else is offering diesels outside of trucks - they're super expensive in the U.S. due to stricter emissions and customers simply don't want them. Ford has already said they can easily bring diesels to the market if the market appears.

    Honda had big plans for a diesel accord. Then it became a diesel TSX. Then they cancelled the program.

    It's not Ford - it's consumers and gov't regulations.
  • Does anyone know when the 2011 will be available for inspection in real life?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Hopefully NEVER...!!

    Ford should relabel it as an Edge/EXD (EXtenteD) and go back to the design board with R/awd front/center as a new 2012 Explorer concept. Use that new electrohydraulic drive coupling clutch to energize the FRONT driveline dynamically.

    And while you're there why not give us a new N/A DFI engine, even a 4 cylinder if equivalent to the Venza I4 but w/DFI.

    But of you LOVE boosted engine so much why not a....

    West/Otto/Atkinson/Miller multi-mode 4 cylinder engine...??

    15:1 base/native compression ratio.
  • vrmvrm Posts: 301
    The 2011 Explorer will start arriving in dealer lots by end of September. So less than 2 months to go!

    However, Ford plans to do a "road show" with this vehicle. Its unclear which cities or towns are going to be on this show.
  • Hello akirby, if volkswagen is having good luck with these jetta TDI models here in the U.S. Ford should have just as much good luck and sales with diesels here. I would even buy an explorer then, considereing buying one anyway but would like to see how they stand up for first year. thanks
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    Show me where VW is making money on jetta TDI models in the U.S.

    Ford has diesels readily available from Europe and Ford wants to make money, therefore if Ford thought it could make money with diesels then we'd already have them. The fact that nobody else outside of VW is trying to do diesels is all the proof you should need.

    Europe favors diesel with taxes and lax emissions requirements which makes them more desirable and profitable. That doesn't exist in the U.S.
  • Thanks vrm! That is great news. So far everything I have seen, heard and researched looks very promising - especially the standard and optional advanced safety provisions. I will be focusing on the top line AWD model. For me it will now all come down to driver comfort and overall safety. This will be my first American car in about 30 years.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    [Quote] You are correct that both #18 and #35 disables the rear drivetrain and at least in the '07 MMH, it should be #35 that is pulled as pulling #18 causes the MIL to turn on.

    In my product design experiences, often the constraints of the marketing product specifications dampens design engineers ideas and findings and design engineers find ways to incorporate their discoveries in a manor which conforms with the marketing product specifications.

    During design of the FEH, marketing wanted a vehicle where the hybrid system was transparent to the owner and fit the regular FE drivability. The product design engineers perhaps discovered that disabling the rear wheels in a AWD vehicle would yeild greater MPG and decreased PTU wear when not needed and suggested a switch be added. Adding this switch was outside the product specifications and was denied. So the engineers incorporated the switching function in a fuse and coupled it with the seat heaters which is another system that is not needed in summer.

    Then when the FEH was redesigned in the '08 model, the original design engineers were gone or on different projects and the idea was lost. The seat heaters were move to the climate controls and they moved the power steering in its vacated position.

    Or it could be an amazing coincidence. At any rate, pulling #35 in my '07 MMH has yeilded great results.[/quote]

    "..perhaps discovered.."

    No, it is generally well known, at least in the automotive drive train design engineering community, that having both the front and rear drives engaged, even partially engaged, continuously will result in so much driveline windup and tire scrubbing that the mechanical and tire life would be severely foreshortened.

    And then the knowledge level of, or lack there-of, the general buying public must be considered.

    Have a switch to turn on "AWD" mode...."..? Then you best have a serious public education program if you wish to sell it outside the "off-roader" venue. The general public is not even aware that the majority of the myriad of "AWD" designs, most especially F/awd designs, now available are not functional in the very conditions for which the vehicle was purchased. Then consider, if you will, that most of these F/awd designs are actually patently UNSAFE to life and limb when driven in those conditions.

    Trust the general buying public, SUV buying public, to know when to use, and when NOT to use, an AWD "engage" switch, NEVER gonna happen.

    These new F/awd systems are designed in an effort to somewhat alleviate the "patently unsafe" aspect of FWD vehicles. Ask someone with "first level" knowledge in the SUV community what's wrong with RWD or R/awd vehicles and they will undoubtedly respond with loss of control due to spin-outs or skidding.

    Why doesn't the same thing apply to FWD and F/awd vehicles...?

    Super sensitive TC (Traction Control), and VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) systems, that's why. And of course it helps mightily if at the time of threatened spin-outs due to excessive throttle you can automatically move a portion of the engine torque to the rear drive.

    So now, rather than automatically derating (dethrottling) the engine in the lower gear ranges, you can have, and make use of, SAFELY make use of, engines in excess of 200HP in a FWD (F/awd) vehicle.

    Detroit can now go back to selling what it's good at, selling HP. Ford SHO...F/AWD

    EcoBoost = HP, NOT FE, actually to the detriment of FE since the EcoBoost engines must run in derated/detuned mode 99% of the time.

    Just look at how, and why, the new Ford Explorer got castrated.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    So how do you explain the 2.0L ecoboost best in class fuel economy?
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