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2011 Ford Explorer

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  • rhlrhl Posts: 1
    After reading many of the articles on the 2011 Explorer one thing I found missing was that there will be no Diesel offering. Doing a little research on the web I found a few interesting facts on Ford Diesel engines. The new Ford 4.4 L diesel made in Mexico is to be used by the Land Rover and not on any Ford vehicle and is estimated to get 30 MPG! Also Ford in the UK manufactures a 3.0 L V6 Diesel (AJ-V6D Gen III) and a 3.6 L V8 Diesel (Lion V8) that is used in the Land Rover and Jaguar. The V6 produces 235 Hp and 368 Ft LB the V8 268 and 472 ft lb (verses 290 hp and 255 ft lb of the 2011 Explorer’s gasoline V6) so both would be more than adequate for the new Explorer and most likely give better than 30 mpg given their smaller displacement than the 4.4 L and the lighter weight of the Explorer. So the question is why does Ford continue not to offer a diesel? A diesel would provide better fuel mileage and provide better towing capability.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Same reason nobody else is offering diesels outside of trucks - they're super expensive in the U.S. due to stricter emissions and customers simply don't want them. Ford has already said they can easily bring diesels to the market if the market appears.

    Honda had big plans for a diesel accord. Then it became a diesel TSX. Then they cancelled the program.

    It's not Ford - it's consumers and gov't regulations.
  • Does anyone know when the 2011 will be available for inspection in real life?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Hopefully NEVER...!!

    Ford should relabel it as an Edge/EXD (EXtenteD) and go back to the design board with R/awd front/center as a new 2012 Explorer concept. Use that new electrohydraulic drive coupling clutch to energize the FRONT driveline dynamically.

    And while you're there why not give us a new N/A DFI engine, even a 4 cylinder if equivalent to the Venza I4 but w/DFI.

    But of you LOVE boosted engine so much why not a....

    West/Otto/Atkinson/Miller multi-mode 4 cylinder engine...??

    15:1 base/native compression ratio.
  • vrmvrm Posts: 303
    The 2011 Explorer will start arriving in dealer lots by end of September. So less than 2 months to go!

    However, Ford plans to do a "road show" with this vehicle. Its unclear which cities or towns are going to be on this show.
  • Hello akirby, if volkswagen is having good luck with these jetta TDI models here in the U.S. Ford should have just as much good luck and sales with diesels here. I would even buy an explorer then, considereing buying one anyway but would like to see how they stand up for first year. thanks
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Show me where VW is making money on jetta TDI models in the U.S.

    Ford has diesels readily available from Europe and Ford wants to make money, therefore if Ford thought it could make money with diesels then we'd already have them. The fact that nobody else outside of VW is trying to do diesels is all the proof you should need.

    Europe favors diesel with taxes and lax emissions requirements which makes them more desirable and profitable. That doesn't exist in the U.S.
  • Thanks vrm! That is great news. So far everything I have seen, heard and researched looks very promising - especially the standard and optional advanced safety provisions. I will be focusing on the top line AWD model. For me it will now all come down to driver comfort and overall safety. This will be my first American car in about 30 years.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    [Quote] You are correct that both #18 and #35 disables the rear drivetrain and at least in the '07 MMH, it should be #35 that is pulled as pulling #18 causes the MIL to turn on.

    In my product design experiences, often the constraints of the marketing product specifications dampens design engineers ideas and findings and design engineers find ways to incorporate their discoveries in a manor which conforms with the marketing product specifications.

    During design of the FEH, marketing wanted a vehicle where the hybrid system was transparent to the owner and fit the regular FE drivability. The product design engineers perhaps discovered that disabling the rear wheels in a AWD vehicle would yeild greater MPG and decreased PTU wear when not needed and suggested a switch be added. Adding this switch was outside the product specifications and was denied. So the engineers incorporated the switching function in a fuse and coupled it with the seat heaters which is another system that is not needed in summer.

    Then when the FEH was redesigned in the '08 model, the original design engineers were gone or on different projects and the idea was lost. The seat heaters were move to the climate controls and they moved the power steering in its vacated position.

    Or it could be an amazing coincidence. At any rate, pulling #35 in my '07 MMH has yeilded great results.[/quote]

    "..perhaps discovered.."

    No, it is generally well known, at least in the automotive drive train design engineering community, that having both the front and rear drives engaged, even partially engaged, continuously will result in so much driveline windup and tire scrubbing that the mechanical and tire life would be severely foreshortened.

    And then the knowledge level of, or lack there-of, the general buying public must be considered.

    Have a switch to turn on "AWD" mode...."..? Then you best have a serious public education program if you wish to sell it outside the "off-roader" venue. The general public is not even aware that the majority of the myriad of "AWD" designs, most especially F/awd designs, now available are not functional in the very conditions for which the vehicle was purchased. Then consider, if you will, that most of these F/awd designs are actually patently UNSAFE to life and limb when driven in those conditions.

    Trust the general buying public, SUV buying public, to know when to use, and when NOT to use, an AWD "engage" switch, NEVER gonna happen.

    These new F/awd systems are designed in an effort to somewhat alleviate the "patently unsafe" aspect of FWD vehicles. Ask someone with "first level" knowledge in the SUV community what's wrong with RWD or R/awd vehicles and they will undoubtedly respond with loss of control due to spin-outs or skidding.

    Why doesn't the same thing apply to FWD and F/awd vehicles...?

    Super sensitive TC (Traction Control), and VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) systems, that's why. And of course it helps mightily if at the time of threatened spin-outs due to excessive throttle you can automatically move a portion of the engine torque to the rear drive.

    So now, rather than automatically derating (dethrottling) the engine in the lower gear ranges, you can have, and make use of, SAFELY make use of, engines in excess of 200HP in a FWD (F/awd) vehicle.

    Detroit can now go back to selling what it's good at, selling HP. Ford SHO...F/AWD

    EcoBoost = HP, NOT FE, actually to the detriment of FE since the EcoBoost engines must run in derated/detuned mode 99% of the time.

    Just look at how, and why, the new Ford Explorer got castrated.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    So how do you explain the 2.0L ecoboost best in class fuel economy?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..Class.." as in 0-60 times and HP/Torque, NOT FE.

    Take the VERY same engine, mill the head to raise the base/native compression to ~12:1, "wire" the wastegate fully open, and see a highway cruising FE improvement of not less than 15%

    Check out the new DFI 4 cylinder in the Sonata.

    Or use the new Toyota e/VVT-i technique now being used in the RX450h to shift the engine from Otto mode (15:1 CR) to Atkinson (13:1) and see a highway FE improvement in the range of 50%

    And if you then still desire that stellar 0-60 time then add a variable speed/volume (CVT/PSD "driven") positive displacement SuperCharger(***) and use e/VVT-i to reduce the effective CR (before BOOST) to 10:1 or below with WOT.

    *** The Atkinson engine mode is so efficient at using all of the power of combustion to push the piston downward that there is NOT enough energy left to spin a turbine, only enough energy left in the exhaust to heat the catalyst,
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    And while you're at it, throw on a Tornado, one of those magic 100 mpg carburetors and an electrolysis hydrogen generator and you'll be at 200 mpg - easy!

    Seriously - where do you make up this stuff?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    The very same video could have been make with the Taurus X.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Well, let's see...

    The variable speed/volume SuperCharger was put into use back in the mid-fifties on the Studebaker Golden Hawk series. Used a V-belt type CVT to drive the SC.

    Eveything else is in current use.
  • I ordered out a new 2011 Ford Explorer XLT V6 4WD last week. Silver metallic exterior, gray leather interior, Option Package 202A, 3.5L V6, Trailer Package, Navigation system, etc. MSRP as ordered $38,580 minus $720 discount on 202A package minus $500 Early Order Bonus. DELIVERED PRICE $35,468. Dealer Invoice $35,668.29.
    Do you think this is good deal? :)
  • I think you got a good deal, curious to know where you purchased it. I also like the new explorer thinking of buying one thanks Roadmaster45
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,781
    Congrats! Please report on your deal over in the Ford Explorer/Mercury Mountaineer Prices Paid and Buying Experience discussion.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    In reality you just purchased a restyled/rebadged Taurus X.

    And Ford is misusing, abusing, the 4WD term, this is NOT your father's Ford Explorer. The "old" Explorer was R/awd, quite reliable driving and handling on even the worse of wintertime adverse roadbed conditions, even off-road conditions.

    The "new" Ford Explorer has been castrated, it now has a simple and inexpensive to manufacture FWD or F/awd system. Patently UNSAFE FWD and not all that much better F/awd for use on wintertime adverse roadbed conditions..

    If you feel you will need 4WD capability then the Toyota 4runner might be your best choice.

    Regardless I would drop the "captive" nav system like a HOT potato(e) and buy a portable GPS/nav.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    In reality you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
  • Congratulations! I think you have made an excellent purchase; the Explorer will be the high bar to match or beat by the other manufacturers for several years to come. This is a strong, sophisticated, safe and likely reliable vehicle. I am waiting to drive one late this year and if it fits me I will be ordering one with everything. This will be the first American car I have considered in the last 30 years or so.
  • Funny stuff!! Add; wave a dead chicken over the hood, sprinkle some magic dust over the engine and add some snake oil to the gas tank and we should reach 275-300!
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    FreeStyle = Taurus X = Explorer.

    Maybe the third time's the charm.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    In what way, please explain.
  • I ordered out and bought new 2011 Ford Explorer at Town and Country Ford, Quinnesec, Michigan 49876. Their phone number is (906) 776-4715. Ask for Steve Juul (owner/sales manager) or contact him at trentjuul@yahoo.com. My suggestion is go to www.ford.com and configure the exact model and options that you want and then let Steve see what he can do for you. He doesn't play "games"--just give you a straight price. :)
  • I currently own a 2003 Toyota 4Runner, V-8, Sport, 4WD, loaded with every option. By the way, also have 2008 Toyota Prius. Like previous Ford Explorer's, I have had no problem with the 4Runner. What deterred me from buying another 4Runner is all the plastic crap in the interior, rough riding, cramped space, lack of refinement in the audio and navigation system, expensive maintenance, etc. Not really updated for the 21st century. Compared to new Ford Explorer, 4Runner is overpriced, outdated, and lacks sophistication.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Every way. FWD is not unsafe and neither is FWD based AWD. Heat isn't the problem with the PTU seals. Running summer tires in winter is NOT safer. Ecoboost engines are not just for more power.

    The Explorer shares nothing with the Taurus X except a common ancestor platform. Even the front and rear suspension is different now not to mention all new engines, ride height, totally unique exterior and interior.

    That's why you don't know what you're talking about.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    But my point was, is, that the Explorer, new edition, is no longer in competition with the 4runner.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    It is for the vast majority of buyers who don't need true off-road capability.
  • I would totally agree with you..."the Explorer....is no longer in competition with the 4Runner". The 4Runner represents late post-World War II technology and the latest edition merely reshuffles the plastic interior. The 4Runner is a solid built, rough riding, cramped interior, expensive to maintain, bulky handling, and lacks 21st century state-of-the-art technology. A detailed item-by-item comparison of a configured 4Runner and new 2011 Explorer would also underscore that it is over-priced.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Okay, I've told you why I contend that FWD and F/awd vehicles are patently UNSAFE on a wintertime adverse, slippery, roadbed. Now would you please be so kind as to give us a basis for your statement that they are NOT unsafe in those conditions.

    And please help us understand why HEAT is not a problem with the PTO/PTU seals and high level of mechanical failures..

    And what aspect of an Ecoboost engine is not "just" for more power. Ford's only claim that I can see is that it produces more power than a larger engine while consuming less fuel than the LARGER engine. What about the VERY SAME DFI engine but with ~12:1 CR but absent the turbo and produces muchly improved FE. Or actually still with the turbo but with a more throttled boost level so as to not blow up the engine.

    Where do you get the information that running summer tires in wintertime isn't safer...?? That all depends on the wintertime climate and the driver's willingness to execute other traction measures should the need arise.

    But you're correct about the new Explorer and the Taurus X, the new Explorer is probably closer to the FreeStyle.
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