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2011 Ford Explorer

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Comments

  • jpp5862jpp5862 Wilmington, NCPosts: 377
    edited January 2011
    Does the lease calculator on your website use the current Money Factor and residual percentages based on zip code, or is it just high end estimate?

    I've wondered the same thing, the lease payments I calculate on the website are a good $100 less than what dealers are quoting me, even after I adjust for no cap cost reduction, my mileage and months. I can't tell if the calculator is bogus or if dealers are just being slimeballs. Probably a little of both.

    When I build a 4X4 Limited with 302A and moonroof, with $0 downpayment, 39 months and 15,000 miles the payment is about $670 on the calculator. I've had 2 dealers quote me $770 - $780/mo for the same deal. I've asked them for the underlying numbers but they have yet to provide them. I was basically told that they frown on giving numbers over e-mail and the phone and the only way to get the best deal was to come in and talk to the managers, I'm obviously not that dumb, so I haven't gone in and won't.

    As we've discussed in other posts here and in the leasing forum $770 - $780 is just ridiculous for an Explorer regardless of how loaded it is. It's a great vehicle and I'd love to have one, but I don't love it enough to overpay for it.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited January 2011
    On the F/awd version there is a history of PTO overheating and subsequent failure. The earlier rear diff'l/clutch assembly had the same overheating problem until Ford added a thermostat that is used to forewarn the driver of the impending overheat condition. If the driver chooses to ignore the indication the rear clutch coupling is simply disabled, no rear drive, until it cools down.

    The new 2011 F/awd Ford Explorer apparently uses engine coolant to abate the PTO failures but so far the attention, if any, to the issue of rear diff'l/clutch failure proneness is unknown.

    Early indications of an impending PTO failure appears to be the lubricant overheating, BOILING, and blowing out the seals wherein the lubricant leaks away. Ford has gone through a whole series of seal upgrades/revisions to prevent the PTO lubricant loss but so far seemingly to no avail.

    Obviously the new F/awd Ford Explorer is a LOT heavier and with a much more powerful engine that the Escape. So it's no real surprise that cooling is needed for the PTO and maybe even the rear diff'l/clutch assembly. Absent cooling of teh rear diff'l/clutch assembly I would expect to see the return of the thermostat overheat detection technique to prevent driver's from inadvertently "failing" the assembly. No harm, no foul, really, since the Acura MDX SH-AWD, inclusive of 2011, uses the same technque to prevent overheating of the rear drive assembly.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    According to the Ford Flex pricing structure you should expect to pay a $6,000 premium for the EcoBoost/TwinForce gas-guzzling gas-hog engine if you choose the lowest end Explorer version on which that option is available but as little as $3,000 if you choose a high end Explorer version.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    edited January 2011
    Google says you are about the only one promoting the PTO problem.
    I was going to ask for more details, but I don't really need them, thanks.
    That overheating issue sounds familiar in regards to the CR-V. It does share lineage with the MDX.
    I like the '11 Explorer, but I still like my '02.
  • Why no Sport Trac? That's the only Explorer worth having!
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    It could be because the Sport-Trac is more like a "truck" than an SUV or CrossOver. Truck owners/buyers (mostly MEN..?) do not cotton, in general, to FWD or even F/awd. I've been mildly surprised at the success of the Honda RidgeLine, but then it's only available with "4WD", the VTM-4 system.

    You can fool some of the people........
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..the only one "promoting" the PTO problem.."

    You mean other than the myriad of TSBs Ford (and Mazda/Tribute) has issued over the matter, PTO and rear diff'l clutch, for more than a decade now...?

    If you plan to purchase a new 2011 F/awd Ford Explorer it might well be worth your time to review those.
  • jsochajsocha Posts: 1
    I am on my 3rd Ford vehicle. Looking to buy '11 Explorer. How do I get the special pricing as a stockholder? I never knew about this.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,038
    Contact shareholder services - you can get their info from ford.com.

    IIRC, shareholders get X plan.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    If you've had at least 100 shares for 6 months you can contact shareholder services and get a X plan pin.
  • steevosteevo Posts: 340
    Why would the dealer care? You think he would pass up the sale just in case someone else comes in with a coupon? He could make an extra 500 by refusing the sale???? The same dealer will likely make thousands on many other customers, why would he refuse a sale that still has profit?
    I guess you are one of those customers that thinks Ford dealer is doing YOU a favor by selling you a car..
  • Gary,

    I'm late in the discussion. I'm in the process to get a XLT. Would you kind enough to send me the x-plan pin to my email: tanghan6@yahoo.com

    thanks!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Why would the dealer care? You think he would pass up the sale just in case someone else comes in with a coupon? He could make an extra 500 by refusing the sale???? The same dealer will likely make thousands on many other customers, why would he refuse a sale that still has profit?


    You misunderstood the point. My point was if you told the dealer you wanted to buy a vehicle with X plan and the dealer said they would give you the same price without X plan - that doesn't make sense. With X plan the dealer gets an additional check for $400-$500 from Ford. Without X plan they don't get that additional check. If you were a dealer and the vehicle price was the same to the customer - would you turn down a free $500 check from Ford? Of course not.

    OTOH if a dealer was selling every 2011 Explorer they could get at MSRP or close to MSRP then why would they give one away for close to invoice price? The number of vehicles they get is limited so it stands to reason they'd want to maximize the profit wherever possible unless they wanted to take care of a special customer.

    If Ford used Retail Order Verification where they could order pre-sold vehicles that did not count against their allocation then it would make more sense to sell all the vehicles they could get on X plan.
  • steevosteevo Posts: 340
    edited January 2011
    I understand what you are saying. But that assumes that there are x-plan customers waiting in line to buy that car( the buyer had no pin). The reality is there is a lot of competition. So there are going to be dealers willing to discount the truck in order to make a sale, rather than wait around hoping to get an extra 500 from the next guy. The MSRP sales wont hold up because this is a mass marketed family vehicle with lots of alternatives available. People aren't going to wait in line to pay MSRP.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I have 5 Escapes, however only one is AWD. That one is a 2008 with 80,000 miles. The Rear Diff went out at 30,000 miles, was replaced under warranty, and has given us no problem ever since. I really love Escapes and Mariners. Have an 05 Escape, an 06 Escape 2 08s, and a 2010. Also had an 06 Mariner. Have had no problems with any of them other than what I said about the 08. Excellent CUVs.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Steevo - you're still misunderstanding. The dealer has a customer who wants to buy a 2011 Explorer. The buyer says "I have a X plan Pin". The dealer says "I'll sell it to you for X plan price and you don't need the pin." The price to the customer is the same either way and the dealer makes a sale. However, by turning down the X plan pin the dealer is essentially throwing away an EXTRA $500 profit from Ford. Why would the dealer do that? All the dealer has to do is fill out paperwork and get a free $500 from Ford.

    I'll tell you why. Because without X plan protection, the dealer is free to keep extra rebates, charge very high doc fees, add dealer add-ons like paint and fabric protection, keep dealer cash, etc. In other words, they don't mind giving up the $500 from Ford because they can make more than that on the other stuff which is prohibited by X plan rules.

    The moral of the story is that if a dealer offers you X plan pricing and says you don't need a pin - be VERY suspicious. It MIGHT be legit but chances are you'll end up paying more. At least with X plan you're protected.
  • steevosteevo Posts: 340
    Your right it doesnt make sense to say that to a customer that has a pin.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    'X Plan price', I had that pulled on me. Probably gave up some money there.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    The Jeep Grand Cherokee has always been a unibody, albeit with Rear Wheel Drive. The GM Acadia, Enclave, Outlook and Traverse are all unibody with FWD, just like the new Explorer. So this is not new, and if the body is stiff enough, and the Explorer is the stiffest one at this time, the ride should be fine while towing. Of course, I haven't towed with one yet, so I could be wrong, but it stands to reason that it should be ok. The ride on the Explorer ever since 2002 has been superior to all competition because of the Indepent Rear Suspension, and Ford was the first to put that on their SUVs. Only Nissan has copied that to this day, I believe.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..was replaced under warranty.."

    And I'd bet good, serious money that you also got a firmware "reflash" that in some manner, at some level, reduced the use and therefore the stress level of the driveline components.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..the ride should be fine while towing..."

    Not, NEVER.

    Even with the slightest of tow weight on the rear hitch the front is "lifted". With FWD and/or F/awd those front tires' traction coefficient must be responsible for drive traction AND lateral, direction control. A RWD or R/awd vehicle does not have this handicap.

    So towing with a FWD or F/awd will always result in "squrrillier" handing vs RWD or R/awd.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Only if it picks the front wheels up off the ground which obviously isn't happening.

    Your bridge called - it wants you to come back home.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    If you get the tongue weight within the recommended limit, it should be perfectly ok to tow a trailer.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Oh, very likely!!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    Give me some real info. Tsb#'s or whatever.
    I just need something that backs up your claims.
    It's not asking much considering I couldn't find anything about it.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Tow weight on a rear hitch has the same affect on the front traction as would be the case for over-inflating the front, LOWER CSA to contact the roadbed.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    The vehicle is engineered so that towing within the specs will not compromise front wheel traction. Stop making up lies.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Loss of traction on the front due to weight on the rear is, up to a point, a linear function. The towing specs simply tell you where you might begin to experience a SERIOUS level of uncontrolability, not that some level of control isn't lost incrementally as you load up the rear.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    edited January 2011
    Towing 5,000 lbs isn't going to compromise vehicle control. Then again you think a FWD/AWD vehicle is patently unsafe in the rain.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,951
    edited January 2011
    patently unsafe

    Guess he won't be buying one of those poorly engineered BMWs either. ;)

    Meanwhile, is anyone shopping for a new Explorer?

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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