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F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo eco boost

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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    edited January 2011
    50hp for 10,000 na, I'll pass, Ford Finally has powerful engines, I can buy a 2000 Chevy that still has a strong motor...

    Not a 2000 5.3. I had a '00 Suburban and it was a DOG when towing anything and that was with 3.73 gears. My current 07 Expedition pulls up hills in 4th gear at 3k going 65mph that the burb would have to be in 2nd spinning over 4k rpm and barely over 50mph (6speed would certainly help). Then all that thrashing about. The 5.3 sounded like a scalded dog after a 2 mile 6 degree grade. The 3v 5.4 is not the greatest v8 in the world, but it's not short on torque, and it doesn't have to rev a bunch to produce it.

    It's about torque and gearing when it comes to trucks. That's why I find the Ecoboost interesting. I'd love to have a 1/2 ton diesel, but with EPA regs etc., it doesn't look like that's in the cards. Plus many I know with the latest HD diesels are having lots of problems (Ford, GM, and Dodge). I'm not an engineer, but it seems diesels don't take well to all the pollution controls.

    None of them are perfect. When I've had Chevys, the engines were reliable, but the rest of the truck sucked and with Ford's I've had engine issues but the rest of the truck has held up. I can't win with either.
  • took delivery of my new f150 ecoboost... options: FX Luxury Premium Package, DVD, Leather, 3.73 limited slip, 4x4, 11300 tow weight, 6.5' bed, supercrew.... truck is bad a**... i have had it for 3 days.... all I want to do is drive... truck rides better than my 04 acura tl.... as far as power goes, i haven't trailered anything yet, hope too early spring... driving the truck to florida with my family... should be a great drive.... smooth on the highway...gas mileage is difficult to estimate since the remote start has been used several times since our weather has been cold and icy... guestimating i should get close to 20-24 mpg....
  • twwebertwweber Posts: 4
    I would love to hear what kind of mileage you are getting with the eco-boost. I have a 2010 FX4 and I am just under 16 combined. This new engine has the potential to be a game changer. While I have only seen a few out so it is hard to tell what kind of mileage it will get, it could be in my interest to swap a 2010 for a 2011 eco-boost. Sounds crazy but a combined 21 would be 30% increase. With gas more likely to be $4 a gallon for a while than $3, that's $600 per year on 10K miles.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Unless you happen to have a lead foot, or your operations are often, more than say, 70%, high in the engine power band the combined 16 MPG you are now getting will be a keeper. The hwy/cruise mileage with the detuned/derated EcoBoost Gas-guzzling engine will undoubtedly be worse.
  • twwebertwweber Posts: 4
    You may be correct. My hope is that Edmunds/CR/Car & Driver takes an eco boost and runs an extended road test on it. I want to see what it gets regularly for 5 - 10K or more in miles. My sticker was 14/18/15 and I am there at 9K in miles. The sticker on the new 5.0's is 14/19/16. In other words, no difference. The sticker on the eco boost (which is clearly a question mark due to the unknowns on the engine) is 15/21/17. No way I would swap for that.

    Barring something unexpected, my horizon is probably Dec 2011 to Apr 2012 before I would do anything. By then, the performance of this engine should be much more clear.

    I should mention that my employer has Ford as a client so I have access to the supplier discount. In the past, this has meant any F150 but the Raptor below invoice with rebates and offers on top of that. Those numbers make my math better, but not enough for 2 mpg.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    edited March 2011
    15/21/17. No way I would swap for that.

    Considering the EB has nearly as much torque output as the 6.2 which only has a 12/16 rating. I'd say it's at minimum worth looking into.

    I'm open to the idea of an EB in my Expedition if it were to be offered. 80 ft-lbs more torque at 1k rpm lower, 60 more HP, and better FE vs. the 5.4. I'm definitely interested. The 5.0 is definitely sweet, but I don't know if it has enough torque at low rpm. It gets old having to rev an engine past 4k rpm all of the time for pulling power

    Sure, I'd love a diesel, but considering I'd have to go 3/4 ton spend nearly $8k more just for the diesel to get marginally better fuel economy (much heavier truck) then pay 50 cents or more a gallon makes something like the Ecoboost a viable option for those of us that tow 5-8k lb trailers on the weekends.

    For someone who tows all of the time, the diesel makes far more sense.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    And keep in mind that "your" numbers are actual while those are EPA estimates.
  • ironjasperironjasper Posts: 21
    edited March 2011
    Hey wwest,

    The price for the ecoboost option vs. the 5.0 is $750.00 not 3k-4k .....

    Also, I purchased on about a month ago for about $400 over invoice ....

    I priced the chevy, and the deal wasn't any better ....
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2011
    The base price of an F150, XL model, is $22,415.00.

    The minimum cost to get an F150 with the EcoBoost engine, $27,065.00.

    That's an extra $4,650.00 for the pleasure of pumping gas into a Gas-Guzzling EcoBoost engine.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    The minimum cost to get an F150 with the EcoBoost engine, $27,065.00.

    The minimum price on a 6.2L powered F150 is $40,000 and switching to the "gas guzzling" ecoboost that will get better FE is $1,920 less on the same truck. So what's your point?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited March 2011
    My point is that if Ford is going to go to all the cost of redesigning and retooling for building engine heads to accommodate DFI why not go the extra step and bring the engine block itself up to DFI specs, 12:1 CR.

    The current V6 engine block, ~10:1 compression ratio, could still be mated with the turbo and thereby run in detuned/derated mode, GAS GUZZLING MODE, 99% of the time.

    Meanwhile Ford would have DFI V6 engine, 300HP or more, that has a 12:1 compression and thereby has more reasonable FE.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    The current V6 engine block, ~10:1 compression ratio, could still be mated with the turbo and thereby run in detuned/derated mode, GAS GUZZLING MODE, 99% of the time.

    Meanwhile Ford would have DFI V6 engine, 300HP or more, that has a 12:1 compression and thereby has more reasonable FE.


    The current 3.7 v6 already has 302HP and class leading (EPA anyway) fuel economy. Should they boost compression and add direct injection? Sounds good, but a cost/benefit analysis would give the answer. Obviously adding DI does add cost and they want to be competitive on price. Still a DI high compression v6 isn't going to produce enough torque compared to a v8 or the Ecoboost v6 for serious towing.

    I'm sure we'll be seeing more DI engines in the future. The 2012 Focus will have DI standard. So it's coming.
  • If you are buying a configuration that allows the ecoboost, it's a $1750
    option over the 3.7 and $750 over the 5.0 ....
    End of story ....
  • Ive heard the same thing. I have one and was averaging 26 at one point.
  • temj12temj12 Posts: 451
    I purchased a 2011 F-150 with the new 3.7 engine. I have put 450 miles on the truck since the purchase, March 17. I can't decide if the engine underpowers the truck, since I have only driven that many miles. I wanted to know reactions to this engine from other owners.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    Automotive News is reporting 35% of F150's are powered by the EB and 40% of orders are for EB too and their is only a 13 day supply of EB powered trucks. Wow.

    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110428/RETAIL01/110429875/1- 254
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    edited May 2011
    I have a Flex with the Ecoboost, which is pretty close to the one in the F150, only difference is the cam and turbos between them. My Flex is getting avg of 19 MPG, but on open highway I get 27 MPG. The engine runs sweet on 87 octane, but kicks major butt on 93. It is a very strong engine, and after 18k miles in under a year of driving I have not one complaint on the motor. The computer can adjust the parameters depending on which fuel is in the tank, and does it smoothly, I never noticed any differences when running between 87-93-87 except for the increase in power with the 93. The engine has never once exhibited signs of knock, ping, stumble stutter or anything you would expect on an engine that had a turbo on it. I also have a 2010 Fusion Sport with the 3.5 V6, 265 HP, it gets avg 22 MPG, 32 has been seen on the highway, but I have to hypermile to get it, its more like 29 on the open highway. So my heavier, boxy Flex, with the 355 HP TC V6 is getting only 4 MPG less avg, and 2 MPG less Highway than my sleeker, lighter, NA sedan. It is a very good engine.

    The beauty of the Ecoboost design is that the engine, turbos, cooling system, oil system, etc. are all part of the design from the ground up. Ford didn't take an off the shelf motor and slap a couple turbos on it and call it a TC. The block is designed to handle the gobs of power it can produce, if you watched the tear down you can see how they beefed up the lower end. This little V6 puts out almost as much power as my 7.3 powerstroke did.(I tweaked the 7.3, now its a monster) Power comes on strong right from 1500 RPM, you can really feel the pull when the gears are set right. I use the CC a lot, which helps keep the MPG high, since my right foot doesn't, :shades: and when I hit resume at 25 when it is set at 60, it doesn't downshift and scream, but pulls in each gear to get maximum power to fuel. It does it so smoothly that you don't notice you are doing 60 MPH.

    Now that it has 18k on it, I can hear the turbos a bit, very subtle, but they are there, I couldn't hear them when I first got it, but I can hear them now.

    I must have watched that video of the pulloff between the Ford, Gm and dudge about a dozen times, and laughed every time that gm came to a standstill up that hill, at least that is how the Ford made it look. They had to down rate the load on the F150 to 9600 pounds since that is what the GM is rated at. The little V6 has a higher towing capacity than the V8's in all the lines. That's pretty amazing. It wouldn't be able to replace my F350 though, since they don't have a crew cab with 8' bed in the F150, but if they did, it would be a serious candidate to replace it.
  • tigerjon1tigerjon1 Posts: 26
    edited May 2011
    Hello,

    I have no idea if anyone is going to see this question or if I will be able to find it once I am finished, as Edmunds does not make it really easy to just post a new discussion. If anyone can recommend a forum for F-150 enthusiasts, please let me know.

    I am soon to be in the market for a new vehicle (my wife's van will be paid off in a few months). I have never owned a truck, but it looks like now may be the time to pull the trigger. I work in sales, so even though I get 55 cents a mile, good mileage is important to me. I work in the construction supply business and a truck would be handy for lugging some pretty heavy stuff around. In addition, I hunt, so a truck will be handy for that too.

    Right now I drive a 2006 Honda Pilot w/155k miles on it and it has been a pleasure owning it, as it has given me virtually no problems. Prior to this vehicle I owned a 2001 Explorer. I swore after dumping the Explorer with about 70k miles on it I'd never own a Ford again. It was the first Ford I'd ever owned, and it didn't leave a very good taste in my mouth. This vehicle gave us tons of trouble, most notably the rear-end diff going out on us twice. Conveniently for Ford, both times occurred after the 36k mile warranty had expired. Aside from changing the oil, brake pads, and plugs, I am not very mechanically inclined when it comes to motor vehicles, but I know my driving habits had little to nothing to do with the problems I had with this vehicle. I do not tow anything. I baby our vehicles as much as possible (to get the best mileage I can), and I just plain take care of my stuff.

    Anyway, to get on with it, I have never owned a truck, but for the stated reasons, I can justify getting one. I will not get a Ram due to stories I've heard about Chrysler's reliability (no offense, Dodge owners). I will never go near a GM due to the Obama bailout ( I didn't vote for the guy). So I guess it's Ford again. However, other than an unproven engine (in a truck anyways), I am not worried as much as I thought I might be. I have always heard that Ford trucks are fine, they stumble sometimes in their SUVs. Also, I understand Ford has made strides in quality since our old Exploder was manufactured.

    With all that out, I am looking for some solid advice on if this is the best truck for me. I would love to hear from Ecoboost owners and what they think so far. Also, would it be out of the question for a dealer to offer an extension of the factory warranty (at least on the PT), or a good deal on an extended warranty. Also, I understand I just missed Truck Month. I have already told one dealer we are not in a big hurry to buy, but if Ford threw out some more rebates, we might be encouraged to jump on them. Any advice on how I should go about this would be greatly appreciated. BTW, we can get the X plan, so divulging this to the dealer will come last.

    Thanks for any help.

    TJ
    Kansas City
  • twwebertwweber Posts: 4
    The short answer is that only buy as much truck as you need. Look at your needs (towing, hauling etc) and choose accordingly. While it's nice to have a big truck, you pay on fuel economy. I've had several F150's and think they are great trucks. By far, better than the rest.

    In regards to negotiation, there is no real reason to hold back on the X plan info. You are really only negotiating trade in at that point since X plan basically sets the price. As you may guess, I have it as well. The good news is that the price is below invoice. The bad news is that Ford does not mark up their vehicles as much as some others. Another tip is that options have more markup than higher trim levels. So for example, you could find that X plan on an XLT with lots of options (leather etc) is cheaper than X plan on a Lariat with no options.

    You get all rebates with X plan and my gut tells me that $4 gas will cause trucks not to move. If that happens then I expect the mfgs to slap $4K of rebates on trucks in the next 60 days. Now, who knows if Ford will restrict rebates on the Ecoboost, but I do expect higher rebates on trucks.

    With X plan, you are better off buying when inventory is high and not at the end of the year. That way, you get the rebate, the cheap price and have an easier time picking out the truck you want. I swapped my last F 150 in Jun 2010. I kept watching and the deals the rest of the year did not improve upon the x plan and rebates. That would not be the case for everyone, but it was for x plan.

    Good luck.
  • donl1donl1 Posts: 109
    www.F150online.net and www.Ford150.net are a couple of forums with plenty of discussion on the Eco-Boost and Ford 150's in general. Hope this doesn't upset Edmunds.
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