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F150 with the 3.5L twin turbo eco boost

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  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    But then the obvious answer would be....

    Just how many EcoBoost/(TwinForce) F-150s that are sold are EVER asked to do that...???

    Back to that 1-2%...??

    Sounds, to me, more like a job for a diesel.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    It may be worth noting that as of the 2013 MY the Acura RDX is dropping the turbo I4 in favor of a V6. Additionally the rumor is that the Mazda CX-7 w/I4 turbo is on the way out in favor of the new CX-5 w/SkyActiv engine, 12:1 of US to allow regular fuel but 14:1 elsewhere requiring premium.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    2013 RDX 3.5L V6 273HP..............27MPG hwy
    2012 RDX 2.3L I4/DFI/turbo 240HP.....22MPG hwy

    And that's not even without DFI for the new RDX V6 engine.

    Ford LIES..!!
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    013 RDX 3.5L V6 273HP..............27MPG hwy
    2012 RDX 2.3L I4/DFI/turbo 240HP.....22MPG hwy

    And that's not even without DFI for the new RDX V6 engine.

    Ford LIES..!!


    As usual, you don't have the facts straight. The 2013 RDX also gets a 6 speed transmission vs a 5 speed for the 2012 model. Plus Acura's 2.3 turbo IS NOT direct injected. So as usual, you're talking out of your sphincter!

    What does this have to do with Ford and what is Ford lying about? Does it not produce the power or return the mileage Ford claims? The guys I know that actually own Ecoboost f150's have been happy with both the power and the FE. My main question remains with durability and that's yet to be determined.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    Additionally the rumor is that the Mazda CX-7 w/I4 turbo is on the way out in favor of the new CX-5 w/SkyActiv engine, 12:1 of US to allow regular fuel but 14:1 elsewhere requiring premium.

    But it will have no where near the power of the turbo 4. The new 2.0 SkyActiv engine with it's 13:1 compression ratio will only have 155hp and 150 ft-lbs of torque which is basically 100hp and 100ft-lbs of torque short of the 2.3 DI Turbo. I'll gladly give up a few MPG to drive a vehicle that can get out of its own way.
  • bigmclargehugebigmclargehuge Posts: 377
    edited June 2012
    What is this nonsense about sacrificing fuel efficiency 98% of the time?

    You're still falsely assuming that the turbos are not engaging during all acceleratory runs, and all hills.

    You read Wikipedia and now you are married to the idea that CR is the only way to make efficiency gains, which is false. When it comes to high-torque applications, nothing can touch the EB's efficiency (minus a diesel). That is at ANY rpm or throttle application.

    Accelerating under boost is more efficient than NA acceleration, including NA, DI, with similar torque ratings. Combustion efficiency caused by high CR works best in low-torque applications. At anything other than an idle, NA engines cannot get enough air through vacuum alone to produce as high a torque at as low an rpm as a boosted engine. They have to rev to achieve higher vacuum, and hence the creates wasted heat through friction of the cylinders with the extra revs.

    And even on the highway, idle is not 100% of the time. Even Nebraska has slight inclines, merges, passing...

    CR is only a theoretical indication of efficiency at any given rpm. When you add the variable of what an NA engine has to rev to to achieve meaningful torque, the efficiency skews highly towards Ecoboost.
  • How does it feel, wwest, to be totally outclassed intellectually:
    http://www.f150forum.com/f70/how-similar-ecoboost-other-turbocharged-engines-156- 880
     
    I asked those that tune and work on turbocharged engines. They confirm I've been correct, and you have been belligerently ignorant.
     
    Every single thing you've said about turbocharged engine operation has been wrong. You wasted significant time, numerous pages of text, $12, and your last remaining functioning brain cells adamantly defending points that were wrong.
     
    Stop trolling Ecoboost forums, or at least troll one like F150 forums where half the posters are mechanics. Because 1-on-1 you just get more belligerent, even when I was talking total sense to you.
     
    It would be entertaining to see you defend your 'guesses' in that crowd. Its even a way better value than your subscription to Ford parts, where you gained only a false perspective
  • I have a 2012 F150 Lariat Super Crew 4x4 eco boost with just over 3,000 miles on it. I ordered it specced out just like I wanted. This has been my all time favorite vehicle and I just filled out the new owner survey giving glowing reviews in all areas. During the new truck evaluation process I test drove a 5.0 liter and the twin turbo 6 back to back and the six cylinder won hands down. Compared to my previous 2007 Ram Hemi, this engine has far more power at all speeds...in fact, it's hard not to push the pedal down to the floor just to get that feeling of being pushed back in the seat. Now for the fly in the ointment: My wife and I took a road trip this weekend and experienced 5 cases of the engine just cutting out under hard acceleration. The first time I was pulling on the interstate and pushed the gas hard at about 40 mph to get up to the 70mph of on-coming traffic. The transmission seemed to stay locked in 4th gear and pressing the gas had no effect. I let off the gas thinking the engine would "catch up" but it took a good minute to minute and a half for the engine to get back to life. I hoped it was a one time fluke, but coming back we had the same thing happen at every on-ramp and one time I hit the gas to move from the slow lane into the fast lane and had no power at all. The whole truck shudders and the engine and transmission both seem non-responsive. Once I got up to speed it performed just fine. I looked at some other forums and this seems to be a common problem with no solution. Does anyone have any thoughts? I'll take it to the dealership in the morning, but I'd be willing to bet they won't be able to duplicate the problem. One other factor is that it was raining which seems to be a common denominator with the problems others are having. This is a major issue which makes the truck unsafe...I certainly hope there's a fix very soon.
  • I have a new F-150 Platium Eco Boost It has shut down on me several times, 19 all together, it has been at Ford service two times, the last time for eight days, they have had the truck almost as long as me. It quit once in the middle of I-75 it was squealing the tires and fishtailing, this is a serious safety issue. normally you can restart it and it will run right for a while, sometimes it will miss badly and can hardly get up to 45mph. This time they said it was a crank sensor, and it should be alright. I have a trip coming up and am afraid to drive it. I think they should replace the truck, but the dealer will not listen. They think they have it fixed, I am 74yrs. old and don't feel like walking. The truck justs jerks, and the wrench lites up on the dash, and then you are on your own. My whole family has worked for Ford Motor Co. But I can't get any help... ontheshoulder
  • I took delivery of my Ecoboost 150 super cab Platinum on 7/29/12 have about 2900 miles on it. Drives very quite and well, plenty of power but gas mileage is on average 13.6 mostly Highway with some city. Even with cruise control on, and on very level west Texas driving condition non-stop 467 miles, managed only 15.1 mpg. no WEIGHT OR TOWING just three persons., checked using (full tank top off to full tank top off). Gauges are a little off They said I had 15.6 MPG and 1.6. more gallons of gas than I really did. Still love the truck, but gas mileage seems to be way short of expectations. I would still recommend it as my 2011 Toyota Tundra get only 14.8 also but is not in the same league as the F150 on everything from comfort to caring load to range to fill up (Ford has 36 gals).
  • I purchased a truck with the Ecoboost engine a couple of months ago and am now approaching 3000 miles. I have had zero issues and in mixed driving have averaged around 19mpg and have gotten as good as 24mpg at 75mph on the interstate. I drove trucks equipped with the 5.0 and 3.7 prior to purchase and found that neither offered any competition in terms of acceleration and response but I do zero towing. While I will keep my fingers crossed that I have none of the shutdown issues that some seem to be having, I am very impressed with the drivetrain including the 6 speed transmission. I hope the rest of you are able to resolve those issues and enjoy your trucks as much as I am.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    edited October 2012
    During highway cruising and due to the resulting constant pressure gradient on the exit side of the intercooler when operating in a climate with a low OAT/Rh span condensate forms inside the exit end cap and you end up with a puddle of water in the bottom of that end cap.

    Not a real problem with the low velocity airflow required for simple cruise mode. But romp on the gas pedal, BOOOST comes on, intercooler air velocity goes UP, "washing" much of that puddle of water directly into the intake manifold.

    That, of course, results in not just a few misfires and the ECU decides something has gone TERRIBLY wrong and puts the engine in "limp home" mode.

    The most obvious DIY cure is to drill a small hole in the very bottom, lowest point, in the intercooler outlet end cap, solder in a modified(***) brass nipple, and couple the nipple to the intake manifold vacuum via a rubber tube.

    *** Fill the nipple end with solder and then drill an opening orifice through the solder using the smallest drill bit you can come by.

    In cruise mode the high manifold vacuum will suck any condensate, as it forms, into the manifold with a low enough volume no detriment will result.

    Assuming the new orifice is small enough the DBW will eventually adapt to the new source of "idle" intake airflow. Or you can force a quicker adaptation via disconnecting the battery briefly.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Ford's latest, most recent, effort in designing a new F150 EcoBoost intercooler that reduces the propensity for internal condensation appears to have come a cropper...
  • I'm curious to know if you've seen any improvement in mileage now that you have more miles on your truck. I assume you also have a 373 axle ratio. We ordered the exact same rig and so far I have been questioning the mileage and have 2998 miles on our rig. Did you're mileage improve over time?
    City mileage seems to vary between 14 /15 mpg , while hwy is disturbing getting 17 maybe.... Sure it will pull without an issue but I expected more as well.
  • At times, it's your style of driving why your not getting good mileage. Also, give engine a change to get broken in and, I bet you, you'll get better mileage. Enjoy your F-150. I love mind.
  • I'd like to agree but I'm a retired PTSE Manager and also did power train packaging for D3 (Taurus,Sable,Explorer,etc). Mapping the processor and driving habits are not the issue, understanding the system is. I'm trying to better understand this issue. Many have experienced the same; do I love the rig yes, but at $50,000.00 a copy at this stage of the game development should not be one of them. I appreciate that yours runs good, you and others like you are the reason I sprung the bucks for a new 2012 Platinum to pull a 8000# trailer. Unfortunately i am not currently surprised and delighted and trying to better understand the root cause. :confuse:
  • Refer to # article #200...... I don't agree! Understanding the system and fixing the issue whatever the root cause is. This could be a stellar platform and sure beats the diesel alternatives with far less maintenance cost.
  • Well you've had enough time to really understand performance and mileage. I recently bought a 2012 Platinum with 373 gears based on comments like yours. While I am a well seasoned power train engineer (Ford), I have not experienced great fuel economy yet. I also have a 2009 Yukon 5.3 (373 axle) which does deliver 16.5 cty/ 20.0 hwy but lacked the muscle to pull for camping without overheating the transmission or re-engineering the cooling system yet would deliver 9.5 mpg pulling the same trailer. How long did it take you to break it in and what type of mileage are you getting locally stop n go, hwy, and towing?
    I anticipated once broken in 16.5/17.0 city, 20.5 hwy @ 72 miles per hour, and about 13.5 pulling a 8900# load (trailer). So far no joy but believe there are some issues that need to be addressed.
  • I'm looking for the reporter or what he found out; seriously, I want to be the voice of the customer and show that the F150 eco-boost will deliver under load but at this time have not experienced "Surprised and delighted".
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    I anticipated once broken in 16.5/17.0 city, 20.5 hwy @ 72 miles per hour, and about 13.5 pulling a 8900# load (trailer). So far no joy but believe there are some issues that need to be addressed.

    A diesel would struggle to get 13.5 mpg while pulling a 8,900lb travel trailer. I tow a 25' 6,000lb boat and I also have an 8,000lb+ 32' travel trailer. I can get about 12mpg towing the boat with my '07 Expedition (6 speed/3.73 gears) but it's more like 7-9mpg with the travel trailer. I wouldn't expect an Ecoboost to do much better, and possibly worse considering the fact it has more hp/torque which requires fuel to produce.

    I agree on the Yukon/Suburban, I had one and the 5.3 is gutless and the 4 speed trans anyway is junk (had mine rebuilt at 47k miles). Not that Ford's 5.4 is a powerhouse, but it has a lot more torque at lower rpm.
  • I've watched you and "dieselone" spar for some time and truly have an interest in knowing what you may have learned over the past year. While I have a relatively new 2012 F150 Supercrew and am experiencing some break-in issues I believe all can be resolved over time. You can review all my feedback somewhere between forums #198 thru# 203. Refinement and checks and balances during the assembly process and verification at end of line at B&A would help customer satisfaction. I too believe the investment in the Eco-boost far off sets the diesel platform if the sole interest is pulling something under 11000#.
    Any feedback for trouble shooting the system would be value add.Thx!
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    I would be pleasantly surprise if you got 20.5 on the hwy @ 72 mph.

    Or 13.5 towing an 8900# camper at most any speed. A flat bed trailer, at 60ish mph might do it.

    We do a lot of camping, and fuel mileage often becomes the topic around campfires.

    Example: Josh normally towed his 32-35 ft "Tag Along" (not 5th wheel) camper w/sliders with a Ford 10V. I believe he said it is a Van. Usually averaged 8-9 mpg.

    For this particular trip he borrowed a F-250 Diesel a couple of years old.
    Said he was disappointed in the fuel mileage of towing at 60 mph. 12+ mpg.

    Most Diesel owners I've talked with say that 12-15 mpg is about right for a large "tag Along" . And that 5th wheels don't do as well.


    Haven't talked to anyone yet with an F-150 Eco Boost, so your input would be helpful. If you do get that 12+ mpg towing a large camper, it would be great, as gasoline is so much cheaper than diesel. At least it is around here.

    Thanks,
    Kip
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,651
    edited November 2012
    We camp and boat a lot and talk to many different people as well. Our camper sits on a seasonal campsite so I generally see the same people during camping/boating season. We have about 4 people with ecoboosts and so far they're happy. Though they claim towing mpg isn't much or any better than the v8 trucks that had previously, but they love the towing power.

    I really like the f150 but honestly I don't know if I'd pull the trigger on the EB. I'm at 112k on my '07 Expedition and I'd like to get another year out it. Then I'll decide on a Ram hemi/8speed, F150, the new GM trucks, or maybe even a new Suburban depending on the redesign. That or I'll just find a low mileage used Expedition EL.

    I have nothing against the Ecoboost. I've driven a few and they are indeed impressive. Gas mileage appears to be a bit better than my Expedition while also having a lot more power. That's a win/win to me. That said, I'm not sold on Fords ability to avoid major issues. The spark plug debacle with the 3v 5.4 cost me $1,000 due to the plugs breaking off in the head.

    But with as many Ecoboosts that have sold, there seems to be far more happy owners than unhappy. So we'll see. I think many have an unrealistic expectations of FE.

    As for towing mileage, yeah, what you've found is pretty much what I've experienced. The 5th wheels are far heavier than a "tag along". I"ve only towed our travel trailer once. About 150 miles from the dealer to the campground. It's 32' with two slides and 35' overall. It weights around 7,500lbs empty. I towed it with my Expedition at 50-60mph and got about 8 mpg. No way will a current gas truck yield 13mpg pulling a camper of that size. We used to have a 25' camper and still never got more than 8-9mpg towing it with a '00 Suburban.

    As for the Ecoboost, a guy that camps next to me has an '11 F150 Crew Lariat 4x4 3.73 ecoboost. Towing his 26' deck boat (about 7,000lbs) he claims he gets about 9 mpg at 70 mph. He says non towing mileage at 70 is 19-20 and 65 and under it's over 20mpg.
  • I'll leave it to the developers and calibrators to respond but there is an event associated with water slugging that occurs from the turbos that manifest itself as the engine lugging. This will also cause your transmission to downshift under load and thus not perform as anticipated. I'm told it some of the warmer states (i.e. California, Florida) where people are driving turbos (not just the Eco-boost) on the expressway and then slow to go through a toll booth, they experience the same thing under acceleration. This phenominom is characteristic of turbo enhanced engines and may be what your experiencing.
  • I have a 2012 Platinum with the Ecoboost w Max trailer tow and expect it to deliver 16 cty/21hwy empty. Towing 13/13.5 mpg with a payload of 9000#. While the 5.0 will pull adequately, you may experience some transmission shift scheduling under load and the fuel economy will probably be around 14.4 cty/17.8/19.0 hwy. Under load depending on your payload you may only see 10/12 mpg. Recognize if you order the maximum trailer tow they will currently demand the 373 axle ratio which is an ordering requirement. Two things to think about (1) the HID lamps are extremely expensive to replace should one fail. Also (2) the max trailer tow includes the 250 heavy duty mirrors which WILL NOT allow you to drive through a 9ft garage door opening without always having to tip the mirrors in. In full open position even with the mirror in the retracted state, you'll need about 9"-3" to adequately drive through the bay without hitting the mirrors.
    I keep mine slightly tipped in all the time just to allow for clearance. Adjusting them continuously will not only frustrate you but eventually wear out the interface as the mirrors are only held in position by the plastic interface.
  • How many miles do you have on your rig? I experienced the same up to 4000 miles then found a major shift in both city and highway mileage. If I did not know any better, it actually sounded like you were sound you were driving my truck.
    I experienced the EXACT SAME thing!!
    There is as strategic method to fully mapping the processor that might help to fill the fuel tables which might benefit you.
  • Best part of the story...... I have a 5.3 Yukon, 6 spd trans. 2009. Great all around ride and mpg BUT GM saw fit to offer two different trail tow options. (1) call trailer tow, which provides the right engine, trans, and axle. and (2) one that includes the an increased radiator core and transmission cooler. Without both, you can only pull 5900# ,with both it's rated at 7900#. While it may be lame this rig can handle 8000# fine but watch the transmission temp. Failure to do so and overheat conditions can lunch the transmission at about $4200. dollars a copy. Oh the 5.3 will pull 8000# lbs so long as you don't exceed 67 mph. and labor doing it getting 9/9.5 mpg.
    The reason I purchased the Eco boost F150 crew was that many I spoke to during our recent 2012 camping pulling travel trailers up to 9000# were looking at 12/13.5 with the Eco boost platform, while the Duramax, 6.7 Ford, and other big blocks were lucky to see 10.5 mpg. with the same payload. Sure I love diesels, but could not justify the MPG nor maintenance costs.
  • I'll keep you posted. I'm tried and Blue Ford (41yrs) but frankly have to admit I've researched many different power trains. Currently I own have a 5.3 6spd Yukon XL we love 15.8/16.4 cty -19.7/20.0 hwy; the F150 Eco boost crew is still out for vote but will be towing a 8200# trailer with slides in the 2013 season.....
    Stay tuned!! :blush:
  • While the Eco boost boast some good fuel economy exceeding 67 mph will start to show significant decline. Optimum fuel economy will net pretty much what he has stated but pulling a 7000# boat at 70 defeats getting good MPG. You over the peak torque curve, especially if he's got the 373 axle. :sick:
  • #206 of 215 Re: 2011 Ford F150 Eco Boost

    Stay tuned: While were into the first season of putting the Eco boost to the test, I assure you there will be additional threads to provide accurate feedback regarding the Eco Boost's capabilities including the MPG loaded and unloaded.
    The goal is to find what rig will adequately pull a 8,000/ 10.000 lb trailer without breaking the bank or spending a fortune in fuel and oil changes.
    Due to the spring rates and overall vehicle design towing a fifth wheel may not a good decision, but for the average tow behind... "Campers here we come!"
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