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Compact Sedans

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  • Keyword search does it - but for the record, we've put in a request for the Verano and other new models to be added to the drop-down make/model search.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • larry6767larry6767 Posts: 1
    edited December 2011
    I have a 2007 Sentra that has a starting problem. The car will intermittingly start fine and then I shut if off go into a store or run an errand and try to start the car but it does not start. I give if a few minutes and it will start. I hear the fuel pump kick on.

    Anyone know what may be causing this problem?
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr121511.html
    (same link again)

    It has the Verano listed as midsize, so sorry, it doesn't belong here.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    Sorry, but it does belong here. I believe Edmunds decides which car belong where in these discussions....not you. Cars are marketed by manufactures not the EPA and most people consider those to be the categories. Why you are so hung up on what the EPA says is beyond me.

    I explained before that the EPA puts the Bentley Continental Flying Spur(about $200k by the way) in the same midsize category as the Chevy Cruze. Nobody in their right mind would say they are in the same category. One is almost twice the size/weight as the other and is marketed as a large luxury barge while the other is marketed as a small economy car. Why would anyone want them to be in the same size catergory for discussion purposes? Just because the EPA says they have the similar passenger/cargo volume.

    I don't think anyone(besides you possibly) would argue that the Elantra, Corolla, Mazda3, Cruze and the Buick Verona(Cruze based) don't belong in the same discussion category. But the EPA has some in compact and some in midsize. Totally silly. In fact the Mazda3 sedan is compact and the Mazda3 5 door is midsize according to the EPA. Again, silly.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Posts: 573
    edited December 2011
    I agree with much of what m6user says about the compact market class vs. EPA size categories. One caveat though. When discussing 5-door hatchbacks they are measured using total interior volume (to the roofline) and that nearly always results in a higher interior volume versus sedans with a conventinal trunk. Even a Hyundai Accent 5-door goes into the midsize class on interior volume but the EPA normally "adjusts" 5-doors down to their correct market class.

    Also, with more and more "large compacts" hitting the road, we might need to redefine what this class of vehicle really should be. The 2012 Jetta at 112 cu.ft. of volume is a good example - as it is significantly larger than a new Focus or Corolla. Almost a size class larger. As other manufacturers build these "mid-size compacts", a new C/D segment may be born.

    The new Elantra and Jetta are family size sedans in Europe. The paradigm is shifting in the U.S.
  • A reporter is looking to interview midsize or small car owners who recently switched from Honda or Toyota to Chrysler, Ford or GM. Email pr@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, January 5, 2012 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your decision and your experience so far.

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,706
    The other day I saw a Cruze next to a Volvo 850. The Cruze (Verano/etc) made the Volvo look like it was anorexic by comparison. Sure, the Cruze looks all small and round by today's standards, but cars really have all gotten fat and massive over the last 20 years. To the point where even something like a Yaris is larger than an old VW Bug.

    Verano
    Wheelbase 2685 mm 105.7 in
    Length 4671 mm 183.9 in
    Width 1814 mm 71.4 in
    Height 1483 mm 58.4 in
    Weight 1497 kg 3300 lb

    Volvo 850 wagon
    Wheelbase 2665 mm 104.9 in
    Length 4660 mm 183.5 in
    Width 1760 mm 69.3 in
    Height 1415 mm 55.7 in
    Weight 1330 kg 2932 lb
    Yes, that 850 Wagon is/was smaller in every measurement.

    What really happened is that so few cars fit in the compact and sub-compact categories simply because they aren't being made that small any more. The same thing happened in the 60s, you'll remember. Cars became truly massive to the point where a normal sized car from the 50s suddenly looked like a toy by comparison.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    edited January 2012
    Upsizing of cars has been happening for a long time. For example, when Accord was introduced, it was a sub-compact by today's standards--just 162 inches long. Now it's nearly 195 inches long--almost 3 FEET longer--and has the interior room of a full-sized car by the EPA measurements.

    The Accord is a good example of a "tweener" car. It's considered a "mid-sized" sedan by most people, but is long and roomy for its class. Another example is the Verano, and also cars like the Elantra and Jetta: smaller than today's "mid-sized" cars outside, but with the interior room of a mid-sized car per EPA numbers.

    As cars have been upsized, our definition of what a "compact" is and what a "mid-sized" car is have changed also. We could continue to use definitions from 35 years ago. Or we could adapt to the reality of today's automotive market.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    The average American has grown a lot since the 60s as well. That was fifty years ago and people have been getting larger. The small suburb where I live has several linemen on it's high school football team that are over 6'4" and weigh close to and over 275 lbs. When I went to high school in the same size town I don't think we had anybody on our team over 6'1" and nobody weighed over 200. It's just a fact that not only have we gotten large in overall size but weight is even more pronounced as detailed in media left and right. Hence bigger cars just to provide room for this bodily expansion. That is but one reason. Could people cram themselves into the subcompacts of yesteryear? Sure, if they had to but that's not the case.

    Another reason is safety impact standards. It's still easier to protect occupants with a little room and bulk around them. You have to have somewhere to put all those crushzones and airbags. And still another reason is that longer wheelbases usually provide a smoother ride than a short wheelbase and most people like smooth rides.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    edited January 2012
    Finally it looks like Dodge will offer a competitive compact in the new Dart:

    http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-detroit-2013-dodge-dart-aims-for-small-car-bulls-- - eye-starts-at-15995-154353.html

    Looks like quite an improvement over the Caliber! American style (hints of Focus in there IMO) with Alfa Romeo underpinnings.

    And I love that Dodge brought back the old Dart name. That was a nice compact in its day, with the ol' reliable Slant Six.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,897
    And no CVT which is a plus too IMO.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    No hatch = fail. I can understand not going hatch-only, doing that with the Caliber was dumb. But more people are wanting the option, and it's not like it would have taken that much effort as long as they were grafting a trunk on.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    No hatch = fail.

    Compacts like the Cruze, Elantra (new design), and Sentra seem to be selling pretty well w/o a hatch variant. Personally I prefer a hatch, but for those looking for a compact sedan, the Dart gives them what looks like another good option--a better option than Dodge offered in the recent past. Which was... uh... nothing!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Yeah but the car that it's based on STARTED OFF as a hatch. They grafted a trunk on to bring it to the US but left the hatch back in Europe. That's literally walking away from potential sales.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    There's always the option of bringing the hatch later... ala Cruze and Elantra. I think both Chevy and Hyundai are planning on hatch or wagon versions in the USA in the not too distant future.

    But now there's yet another sedan-only compact coming this spring--the Acura ILX. Looks pretty slick. Supposed to compete with the likes of the Verano:

    http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-acura-ilx-concept-photos-and-info-news
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Chevy? Bring a HATCH? From the company that thinks the Constitution says "Thou shalt not buy a hatchback?" ;)

    The Elantra doesn't have a hatch version here. The Elantra Touring is a different model entirely (though it shares some components with the last-gen Elantra). And I'd really like to get out of mine.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    Have you seen the Chevy Sonic... HATCH?

    Yes, I said the new Elantra does not currently have a hatch here. I said that there are rumors one is coming. Also rumors that Chevy will bring the Cruze hatch (available in other countries) here.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    I 30 Elantra Touring Limited HB specs and features are on Auto,Express. They have An I10and I20 also. inthe UK.
    I hope we get the I 30.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Have you seen the Chevy Sonic... HATCH?

    Have you seen any other...HATCHES? The Sonic is the only one, and I'm wondering what the product mix they're building is, particularly compared to demand. Every time they're asked they say they're not going to bring the Cruze hatch here, and Americans don't buy hatches. Guess they forgot to tell all of those Focus and Fiesta hatch buyers...or the Fit hatch buyers...or the Impreza hatch buyers, or the Mazda3 and Mazda2 hatch buyers....
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    edited January 2012
    OK, we get it. You hate GM because they don't offer many hatches. And the only kind of car you like is a hatch.

    So... why do you hang out in a discussion called "Compact Sedans"? :confuse:
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