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Compact Sedans

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  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    That is the point. With the smaller rims, the tire profile is bigger, putting more rubber (air) between rim and road and most likely providing a smoother ride than with the larger rims. Also might impact handling a bit, but that's the typical tradeoff--less crisp handling vs. firmer/harsher ride (and often more road noise).
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,850
    is now here: Tires, tires, tires

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  • Everone I have spoken to who had a car with low profile tires popped at least one tire on a pothole. My mechanic told me he fixes many more flats on low profile tires or the tires have to be replaced from scraping curbs.

    I'm surprised the Elantra would go to low profile tires because the car has usually been considered their answer to the Corolla.

    It will be interesting to see the Buick Verano as it appears to be a more luxurious rather than more sporty compact.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Everyone I have spoken to who had a car with low profile tires popped at least one tire on a pothole. My mechanic told me he fixes many more flats on low profile tires or the tires have to be replaced from scraping curbs.

    My 2006 Mazda3 has P205/50VR17 tires and, prior to buying it back in 12/2005, I had never owned anything with wheels over 15" or a sidewall aspect ratio lower than 60. So I was pretty much oblivious to the drawbacks and potential problems that a lower sidewall profile can cause! I had a nasty run-in with a pothole and trashed both rims on the right side of my car.

    Amazingly, it bent both 17" alloy wheels, but didn't damage the tires at all! The force of the impact went straight thru the tire into the wheel. I was grateful the tires weren't trashed along with the wheels, but the tires would only cost about $130/each to replace...I spent over $500 buying a new wheel for the front and having the bent rear wheel repaired.

    Thankfully, Georgia has some of the best quality roads in the country. The road where I had my nasty mishap is out in the middle of nowhere (near my parents’ house) and it’s not state maintained. That should mean that it is a country-maintained road, but they don’t see it that way. I still have my old ’92 Accord (owned it since 1993) and I drive it when I go out to po-dunk to see the family. She has 372k miles on the clock and rattles a little on those bumpy roads, but the potholes and other road imperfections hardly phase her! =)

    I’ve made it three years without destroying another wheel or damaging a tire…but I’ve scared the hell out of people riding with me if I suddenly run up on a pothole and take ‘EVASIVE ACTION’!
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,640
    We're waiting to get a good look at this new Buick...it could just be our next vehicle. Will it be a 2011 or 2012 model? Would prefer a 2nd year model if possible & if all goes according to plan, we'll hit 100k on the Mazda3 about the time the 2013's come out. Looks like the Verano & the Elantra will be duking it out for our $. Want a long warranty also.

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Just a note - the Cruze and Verano are mid-size and Edmunds has them correctly classified as such. They do not belong in this discussion.

    The EPA has the Cruze incorrectly classified in their database. GM markets it as a "Compact" but they're cheating, as its interior space is really much larger than most everything else they are marketing it against. The ride is better as well, being that it has a mid-size wheelbase.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    edited January 2011
    Then cars like the Elantra, Forte, and Sentra don't belong here either. They have mid-sized interiors per EPA volume numbers. However, they, like the Cruze and Verano, are one size down in length from "mid-sized" sedans like Accord, Camry, Sonata, Optima, Malibu, Fusion etc. etc. So all these cars--including Cruze, Verano, Elantra, Forte, and Sentra--are rightly considered "compact" sedans, to differentiate them from "mid-sized" sedans like those I listed.

    FWIW, the Cruze is really NOT much larger than most everything else Chevy is marketing it against. For example, here's some interior volume numbers, with passenger volume in parentheses, for some of Cruze's competitors:

    Cruze: 110.0 (94.6)
    Forte: 111.5 (96.8)
    Sentra: 110.5 (97.4)
    Elantra: 110.4 (95.6)
    Jetta: 109.6 (94.1)
    Versa: 108.5 (94.7)

    So Forte, Sentra and Elantra all top the Cruze in overall volume, and those three plus the Versa top the Cruze in passenger volume. And the Jetta is a fraction of a cube smaller inside than the Cruze.

    As far as the Cruze having a "mid-sized" wheelbase, it's in the upper range for compacts these days, but compacts these days are bigger than those of a few years ago. For example, the wheelbase of the Elantra is bigger than that of the Cruze, and the Sentra's is the same. And others are within an inch or two of the Cruze's, e.g. Forte and Jetta are both over 104 inches.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Then the discussion name needs to be changed to "Small sedans", as anything over 110 is mid-size. Or the list needs to be changed greatly to reflect what are really compact cars.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    edited January 2011
    The Accent and Fiesta are "small sedans", also. But not compacts. Although the current Accent is considered "compact" sized by EPA interior volume numbers. But the EPA considers the Civic to be a sub-compact. Kick that one out of here!!!

    Who ever said we must limit and title our discussions only based on EPA interior volume numbers? :confuse:
  • sandman_6472sandman_6472 Coral Springs, FLPosts: 2,640
    Why don't we just leave things alone...I think everyone understands the cars we're talking about anyways...no need to disrupt the apple cart! This is turning into one of my favorite forums lately, so let's keep it the way it is! Thanks. :) Maybe it's because one of these cars will be sitting in my garage within the next couple of years! Yay!!! (Really wanna buy something!)

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2014 Hyundai Tuscon SE/2005 Mazda 3s/2008 Hyundai Accent GLS/2009 Nissan Versa SL hatch

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    What was Buick thinking with that name...Verano?

    The only thing I can think of when I see/hear that name is the godawful 2004-2006 Suzuki Verona (aka- Daewoo Leganza with a Suzuki emblem glued on the front and back)!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    Maybe that explains why so many car companies use numbers for car names... hard to find good names these days. Like... what's an "elantra"? Or "sentra"?? At least "corolla" means something, but I wonder how many people could say what it means w/o looking it up? Civic... now that's a good name I think.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    edited January 2011
    The issue I have is that some of the cars are being unfairly compared to much smaller vehicles as a result. The Ford and the GM aren't compacts any more and surprise - they tend to win handily against most of the smaller and often less well built vehicles in the same tests.

    At 3300 lbs, the Cruze is not compact in my book, or if it is, it's the biggest whale of a compact ever made. To me, weight is the main determiner. A compact car should be under 3000lbs as well. This is far more important than the actual size of the sheet metal that they add or subtract at the front and rear of the car. (you'll note that side by side, the Regal and Cruse have essentially identically sized center sections)

    P.S. And the Civic, even the smallest interior sedan with sunroof is just a little over 100 cubic ft combined trunk and interior, so it's legitimately a compact car. It's also between 600 and 700 lbs lighter than the Cruze.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    edited January 2011
    The Focus isn't a compact any more? You could have fooled me. By interior room, by size, by weight, the Focus that is for sale in the USA today sure seems like a compact car.

    Honda says the Civic EX has a curb weight of 2820 with the AT. The comparable-trim Cruze 2LT with AT weighs 3102 pounds according to Chevy. That's a difference of less than 300 pounds... not 600-700 pounds. And if you check the EPA site for 2011 Sub-Compact cars, you will find the Honda Civic there. But I'll bet most people don't consider the Civic to be a sub-compact, but a compact. Just as they would consider the Cruze and Focus to be compacts.

    I think you are making this WAY too complicated.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I was basing the comments on the Verano, which is a restyled Cruze.(figured the two where roughly similar) Apparently there is a 200lb difference.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    At 3300 lbs, the Cruze is not compact in my book, or if it is, it's the biggest whale of a compact ever made. To me, weight is the main determiner. A compact car should be under 3000lbs as well.

    Actually, the Cruze 2LT weighs in at 3,104lbs, but it's in good company-

    Mazda3 s Grand Touring 4-door AT- 3,098lbs
    Mitsubishi Lancer GTS CVT 4-door- 3,076lbs
    Volkswagen Jetta SEL 4-door AT- 3,109lbs
    2012 Ford Focus Titanium 4-door- 3,015lbs
    Subaru Impreza 2.5i 4-door AT - 3,119lbs (impressive considering the AWD hardware)

    For the purposes of this forum, discussing and comparing cars that most buyers will cross-shop with one or more 'true' compact models is reason enough to include them! Very few consumers disqualify models of similar size because of a few hundred pounds or a few cubic feet of interior space.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Maybe that explains why so many car companies use numbers for car names... hard to find good names these days. Like... what's an "elantra"? Or "sentra"?? At least "corolla" means something, but I wonder how many people could say what it means w/o looking it up? Civic... now that's a good name I think.

    The alpha, numeric, and alpha/numeric designations are really becoming annoying; even more so if they replace a perfectly decent REAL name (as in a word, whether real or pulled out of a hat)!

    Honda has been the most consistent non-luxury brand with their names. CIVIC has worked perfectly for 38 years or so and the same is true of ACCORD for 34 years. Too bad they didn't use that wisdom with their co-workers at Acura! Tossing the 'LEGEND' and 'INTEGRA' names to the gutter was so stupid that even (old) GM execs wouldn't do it!!! From a personal perspective, I'm glad that the 1996 and subsequent RL models didn't wear the LEGEND name in North America. None of the cars have been worthy of it! But it seemed like an insane business decision considering the reputation and dedicated following that each model had earned in only 10 years! But now model names are the least of their worries...their new "corporate face" (aka- The Beak!) is the auto world's version of Joan Rivers....NEVER stare directly at it and walk away slowly....

    The absolute worst with the alpha model designations has to be Lincoln! Their underwhelming products don't help matters either. But who the hell knows the difference between a MKS, MKT, MKX and MKZ....WTF???

    I give Mazda some slack for their decision to use mono-numeral designations. At least they had a history of using numeric names (323, 626, 929). Apparently they got lazy and decided that the single digit would suffice!?! I have wondered if conventional, memorable names would have a positive impact on their slower sellling models...the Mazda2 and Mazda6, in particular. Mazda's use of the lower case "i" and "s" to designate sub-models/trim levels is an unforgivable sin, though! =
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    Yeah, whoever came up with car names like "328ix" should be banned from the automotive world. Those kind of names obviously don't work in the long run. ;)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Using "i" and "s" is an unforgivable sin...really? Why would you care whether they use that or something like S, SE, LE ? :confuse:
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    I always wondered what "LE" meant. Limited Edition? Luxury Edition? Laughingstock Edition?? :confuse:
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Do I detect a hint of sarcasm??? =)

    BMW and Mercedes were using alpha-numerics decades before everyone started copying them! Besides, most BMW and MB owners refer to their car simply by the 'series' or 'class'- (3-series, E-class).
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Waleska, GeorgiaPosts: 791
    Using "i" and "s" is an unforgivable sin...really? Why would you care whether they use that or something like S, SE, LE ?

    Because I always hate writing out the full model name of my car- Mazda3 s Touring 5-door and the lower-case 's' looks odd, when it could just as easily be 'S'. Automatic spelling checks always want to capitalize it also...i

    It's unforgivable because I'm OCD and it bugs me... =)
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    Mulitilink suspension . What a difference than a torson Beam. I think Vw is in troble matching this new Optima. :)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    Optima is a mid-sized car, not a compact by any stretch of the imagination.
  • Is this the mid-size sedan comparison thread? :(

    So what's the best car in this group? Gotta be the 2012 Focus right? :P
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    If you say so. Hard to compare a car that isn't available to the public to all those that are, though.
  • I have a 2005 Ford Focus manual transmission. The reverse is no longer working i was having trouble with the other 5 gears but they are now working. But the reverse just will not go into gear it will pop over into 4th. please help :)
    thank you
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,850
    This is a comparisons discussion to talk about the advantages/disadvantages of a variety of compact sedans. Your post is more on-topic in the Focus Transmission Problems discussion - you're more likely to get responses there.

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  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    Alot of people are waiting for the Focus HB before buying a Fiesta.
    Have you checked out what Hyundai plans for 2012 Accent, Volster and Elantra. I think So. Korea is on the ri.se.
    I'm waiting for the VW Polo,but each day the compacts are getting loaded up. They ought to be with gas so high. Most of the compact cars are upgrading to heated seats,moonroofs ,grab bars,Bluetooth and consoles. :shades:
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    So my Golf isn't a compact. It sure feels like it.
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