Lincoln LS

desertguy

I would definitely choose a 2003 or later model. The improvements would be worth the small extra cost. And not just for the airbox etc. I had every one of my windows drop in my 2000, all at different times. So I would want to be sure that I had the "new & improved" window apparatus. Not sure when this was accomplished but I know problems continued after my model year.

luas

My humble opinion, after owning a 2000, 2001 and a 2003, is that they are all good. My vote would be for the 2003. The myriad improvements made this the superior car. Good luck and enjoy...

lateralg

I owned a 2000 & 2003 Lincoln LS, with a 2001 Lexus GS 430 between the two. The '03 LS was the best driving & ownership experience of the three.

heyjewel

Dropping windows - oh yeah that brings back memories. Mine never did drop but I was able to get the dealer to replace the little mechanism anyway.

How about fogged headlights? That was another prob in many '00 and '01 LSes. Dealer made the indicated repairs on my headlamps and I dont remember seeing the problem ever. Until yesterday. Car just came back from body shop after a rear-ender. They washed the heck out of it and looks like some water got into the passenger headlamp assy. Great. I wonder what are my chances that the dealer will take responsibility for resealing the headlamp assy?

qbrozen

yeah... after doing the reasearch on real-world values, I've decided I'm holding out for an '03 or '04. They aren't worth that much more at trade time, so its a matter of finding a dealer who isn't overcharging. It appears that a fair price for an '03 with 30k miles should be in the $19k range. Considering I was about to pay $18k for an '02, its definitely worth the extra jingle. I especially like the cooled seats and adjustable pedals. Very nice stuff.

Good to hear so many positive responses. I definitely didn't get that from owners back when I bought my volvo (but bought one anyway and have LOVED it for the past 4 years).

So, odds are I'll be an LS owner in the near future.

cdnpinhead

You're on the right track.

I'd have an '03 (or later) myself if it came with my favourite option (manual trans), but it doesn't.

By all means, seek an '03 or later.

jkm2a

Fogged headlights, eh? What's the fix for that, is it one you can do yourself or does it have to be done by a dealer? My new-to-me '01 has that problem, on the passenger side. It seems dry enough at the moment, but it rained pretty hard a couple of days after I bought the car and moisture stayed in that headlight for several days. I'd hate to think I'll have to replace that headlight assembly, as I don't much like the idea of replacing parts on a car I've had for less than a month.

heyjewel

Yeah, I dunno. It was a warranty item so if you're still under warr, get the dealer to do it. It may even be an "AWA" - after warranty adjustment - item. Problably have to push for that. In my case, as I said, the dealer replaced the seals on both sides a coupple of years ago. It would *seem* to me that the dealer should replace them again no charge. I'll find out soon andreport back as I'm taking her in for 60,000 mile service this week or next.

heyjewel

Couple of comments on your ideas - and mine.

I drove a G-35 for 3 weeks while my LS was in the body shop. The car is very similar to the LS, more so to the V8 w/select shift than my V6 Getrag. Hard to say if an LS owner would be comfortable in a G-35 though. The G is smaller and feels even smaller than it is in the driver seat. The seat adjusters are right next to your right thigh on TOP of the seat and can be a bother. It has no easy-out feature or memory seats. (OK- probably available as options, I dunno.) The stereo is at least as good. The handling is at least as good. The ride is jouncier than even the sport package LS. The G feels quite atached to the road, though there were a couple of occasions where the rear end got pretty squirrelly on me. Last, it is FAST and responsive.

Certainly a CTS (CTS-V :>) would be a reasonable LS substitute, if u can get past the looks. The Acura (RL??) gets rave reviews, except for the caveat "if only they would apply those sweet ponies to the rear wheels ..." That quote may come in handy for reviewers of the upcoming Lincolns.

Myself, I'd hate to get rid of my 'classic' manual tranny LS. I would though under the right circumstances. Having a wife who needs a car for work and family stuff and now a teenage daughter who "needs" a car, we had to pick up another vehicle and did so over the weekend. Got a 2003 Explorer Sport Trac. What a great SUV/Pickup vehicle it is. We all love it. The teenager will drive it mainly, but I'll use it for photo jaunts too.

Back to the question - what to replace the LS with? Now that we have 2 large vehicles (wife's is a Navigator for those who don't know) I *could* get something a little sportier for my daily driver. Something with a manual tranny and good gas mileage and FUN-factor built in. Maybe even a convertible. My inner child anxiously awaits the arrival of the Saturn Sky. That just might be the ticket for me.

heyjewel

I'd like to address another of the proposed Lincolns of the future. ANT has mentioned a "people-mover". I'm still not exactly sure what that means as my initial vision is of a moving walkway in the airport. But while we were looking at cars I came across one I'd never seen or heard of before. It wasn't a minivan, though it was similar. Wasn't a wagon or even a crossover. I think it might be a people-mover! It's the Mazda 5. (Gotta love those evocative Mazda names, eh? Where's the Mazda 4 anyway?) Basically it's a 6 passenger small sorta minivan thing but smaller. 4 buckets and a 2-wide rear seat. Everything folds (I think) for multitudes of diff configs. Great gas mileage but tiny engine (from the 3 I think).

In any case, my remaining functioning neurons put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5 as in: Lincoln people-mover = Mazda 5 type vehicle. At first, I almost lost it. Darryl Hazel would have received a strongly worded email had I had his addr. But as I thought about it, the idea grew on me a bit. I can see a Lincoln version of this thing in my mind's eye now and I think it would be a good thing. BUT - ONLY if it was:
A good deal bigger than the Mazda 5.
More luxurious of course. Leather reclining buckets at all 6 seating locations would be cool. Some neat features like fold-out tables or such so folks could use a laptop in the P-M perhaps? Perhaps headphone outlets at all seats? Flat screens in the headrests? Power outlets at each seat for individula CD or even DVD players?
Most important of all though I think is it should be a HYBRID powertrain, similar in type and performance to the Accord Hybrid. IOW, 250HP with 30-37 mpg ratings. I drove the Civic Hybrid last week and while 45 mpg is nice, that thing literally can't get out of it's own way.
So, now I think this would be a Lincoln 'people-mover' with reasons to buy at several levels for several types of customers (eg: families, retirees w/ golfing friends etc). If it comes in as an under powered AWD ala the nailed-to-the-showroom Freestyle, fuggetabboutit. IMHO.

Oh, the 2 rear buckets MUST fold and leave enough room for 4 sets of golf clubs back there.

cdnpinhead

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

The G certainly seems smaller inside than the LS, but in past lives I've driven an MGB & a couple of Miatas. It's all relative. I actually went to an Infiniti dealer over the long weekend & sat in a G, and I do fit (with the moonroof). I'm sliding down the slippery slope. . .

Since I posted, I've been to the CTS website & the 3's. The CTS looks like it's going to come in for a lot of dollars, and the 3 may also, plus which I'm scared to death of the reliability of the BMW. But it gets by far the best fuel mileage.

It's an excellent situation to be in. It was all academic until I learned the G coupe had a fold-down rear seat (the sedan doesn't). Now that there's actually something that can exactly replace my LS's function, I'm into the hunt. At some point I'll bring my bicycle to the Infiniti dealer to make sure it'll fit. Anyway, the G coupe is my present benchmark, but I'm (many) months away. I'll need to take care of a number of dings on the LS, as well as replacing a few things that I don't much care about (but that did fail or fall off, BTW) that would likely matter to the next owner.

It's fun. I really am sorry I can't include the LS in the exercise.

mrgdr

My SA recently did an AWA for replacement (not just resealing) of both headlamp units on our 2000 V8 Sport. I was remiss in getting them taken care of during warranty coverage. I guess he considers me to be a good customer since I'm on my second LS (a 2003 Premium Sport). That AWA saved me around $400. They even managed to leave my Sylvania Silver Star lamps in place which I had forgotten to remove and replace with the OEM lamps before hand.

When my '03's lease is up in February, I'm going back to the '00 as my daily driver until Lincoln debuts the D286. After seeing what that ride has to offer, I'll decide what comes next and the '00 LS will become my "classic" Lincoln. As the saying goes, they'll have to pry the steering wheel out of my ... hands of that one.

nvbanker

A Saturn, George? Manual notwithstanding, I'll be surprised if you can stand the stark contrast between quality and mediocrity. Is the Sky RWD?

heyjewel

Well, we'll see won't we? According to my readings, Saturn is on an upscale push with a new sedan called the "Aura" and the Sky. Sky is to be an upscale Pontiac Solstice. Yes, it's RWD and has a manually retracting top that folds under a hard tonneau cover which also houses the head restraints. Yes I know it's GM and yes, that makes me nervous. I've only ever owned 1 GM vehicle - a '97 Tahoe - but that was a positive experience. Good, strong, reliable trasnportation.

These 2 roadsters are the first of "car guy" Bob Lutz's ideas to reinvigorate old GM. I'll look forward to a test drive of both the econo version (180 hp) and the performance version (240 hp) of the Sky. Being a lightweight 2 seater either engine should be a gas to drive with a 5 or 6 speed manual.

ANT14

Yes, that's a "people mover". I like the Mazda5 as well, specially the platform and the engineering behind it. In international markets, it has the availability of 7 passenger seating by making the 2nd row arragement, from 2 to 3 passengers. But according to federal standards, that arragement wasn't allowed in the U.S., because of the seatbelt attachment assemblies, and the required space "per each occupant" required. So instead, they chose the 6 passenger layout.

The Mazda 4 is being left for an alternative vehicle not yet planned. The Miata was to get the 5, as should have this vehicle as well. They are still trying to figure out their numbers, at first they wanted to follow Volvo's number system, but now it's a bit more confusing for Mazda.

My only issue with the Mazda5 is the engine. If a 3.0L V6 with a 6 speed... were to be used, the mileage estimates would increase by 3MPG in the highway. And real world numbers would increase by 2mpg. The 2.3L hs to struggle a bit too much. Maybe a 2.5L V6 194HP might also work as well, althouh that engine would be a bit expensive for this vehicle (and tick off Jaguar). Plus this vehicles isn't planned to sell that many units to make such a change, just for N.A. market.

For an idea of the Lincoln people mover, think Volvo Xc90 height, with Freestyle low floor and flexibility with. With Fairlane concept styling. Fairlane concept low beltline, high windows, senario. Still in question is the seating flexibility...new things could be introduced in relation to that.

Many of these items , are components that will be common to the LS and TownCar replacement.

desertguy

A couple quotes from The Car Connection today:

"Production of the all-new Solstice roadster is edging up, but only about 7000 will be built this year - and that will accommodate fewer less than half of the 13,000 sold orders at Pontiac dealerships."

"The Solstice is the first of three roadsters planned by GM for the Kappa platform. The other two are the Saturn Sky and an edition for Opel in Europe. The trio will account for between 20,000 and 30,000 units annually, according to Pontiac marketing director Mark Hans-Richer. "

That would lead me to think that it will be awhile before you can get a Sky. And then it will probably be selling for over sticker. My guess would be two years but then I think you said you were not in any hurry. They mentioned the Solstice had problems with the front end and leaking roof panels. They did not mention dropping windows or fogging headlights though.

nvbanker

"For an idea of the Lincoln people mover, think Volvo Xc90 height, with Freestyle low floor and flexibility with. With Fairlane concept styling. Fairlane concept low beltline, high windows, senario."

Sounds interesting, ANT. It may lure me back to Lincoln. But, as I need a car now, (lease on Navigator almost up), and gas is skyrocketing, and I have another SUV (Mountaineer), I'm currently looking for a large sedan to fill the gap. And Lincoln has left me underserved at the moment, sadly. I've tried an XJ8L, an S-500, a Q-45 so far - leaning toward the S-500. Wish Lincoln would develop a car with those dimensions and Lincoln style, inside & out. I'd be happy with that.

The Town Car, though I rent them everywhere I go from Hertz, and I think they drive very well, has just lost the luxury feel inside.

ANT14

You didn't like the XJ8L ? What about Montego AWD? My only reservation on the S500 is it's a new one coming out, and reliability is lackluster (I have 3 relatives who are constantly having issues with there's).

nvbanker

I did like the XJ8L - and it's still in the running. The Montego - while a very nice sitting sedan - and not bad looking, is after all, only a Mercury.

qbrozen

so i made a deal last night on a certified '03 with 30k miles. I'm going to pick it up tonight. Its that steel blue color (i think its a very nice color).

Can anyone tell me about the wheels on this car? Just curious if they are factory or not.
http://wwww.getauto.com/vehicledetail/adid-2748861/2003/lincoln/ls/wayne/nj

brucelinc

I know exactly what you mean about Lincoln currently leaving you underserved. I have been very pleased with my LS but it just turned 100,000 miles and I don't plan to keep it forever. I would like to move up to more luxury and performance while maintaining the excellent ride/handling compromise I enjoy with the LS.

I will probably wait until the D 286/D 386 models are offered....or perhaps I will go the XJ8 route, myself. I am keeping an open mind but I will need some convincing on the benefit of AWD. Seems like added weight, friction, and complexity to me with little benefit. I know it is supposed to make a FWD model "feel" more like RWD but my experience with the 500 is that it just makes it feel slower and more lethargic while using more fuel. I understand it in ultra high performance applications or in trucks and SUVs. I suppose it would be nice in snowy climates if you didn't also own a 4 WD vehicle.

As I said, still keeping an open mind and still enjoying the LS..........

akirby

Those do appear to be factory wheels. Congrats! You'll love it.

dwp22

gbrozen,
Yes, factory wheels. In fact, that is an exact copy of my car..medium steel blue, '03 sport. In fact, I bought mine new at Wayne L/M a little over 2 years ago and love it. Good luck.

qbrozen

thanks, folks.

another question i haven't been able to answer ... how does the phone thing work? I read somewhere it was Sprint, and I am a sprint customer... but do I really need a specific phone? Does it plug in or is it bluetooth (which i would be surprised at since i don't think bluetooth was common - if even available - when this car was produced)? Info I found seems to indicate Motoralla Timeport of the '02 model and bluetooth on the '04 model ... i have yet to find info on '03.

akirby

The Mobile Ease system for 03+ models is bluetooth compatible. It was introduced for the 04 models but is backwards compatible with the 03s although you might need a special wiring harness. You just need a compatible bluetooth phone.

apg4359

Need Help fellas.

I got the following error code from a Checker Auto Parts diagnostic tool:

P0795 Pressure Control Solenoid "C"

This error code is related to the "Check Transmission" error displayed on the dash.

Any help would be appreciated.

akirby

Couldn't find that specific code but it's definitely a transmission problem. Might help if you told us the year and model.

apg4359

It's a 2000 Lincoln LS V8.

qbrozen

thanks, akirby.

what would the wiring harness be for? i mean, without the harness, what does the button on the steering wheel do? I do have a bluetooth phone. I guess i'll go outside and see if i can figure out what to do... but if anyone has programming instructions, I'd appreciate it. For some reason, even the owner's manual is lacking info. Kind of silly that I can't find instructions for such a potentially great feature.

lobsenza

How about an M35 or M45?

frustrated_ls

:lemon:

Hi all,
Here is my situation. I bought an LS a year ago at a dealer's auction and went through a dealer (friend of family got me into the auction) to have it financed and checked out. I am now at 56k miles (6k over warranty) and all hell is breaking loose. Since about 52k I have had to have a Hydraulic Cooling Fan pump replaced ($250), Transmission rebuilt ($2400), New breaks and rotors ($500) but that's normal wear and tear so its understandable. Now my Check Charging System alert is coming on so I assume the alternator is the next thing to be replaced (~$250??), and I can't remember what I had done under warranty. I have had it with this car and now I'm considering consulting a lawyer to see if this qualifies as a Lemon under the law. Does it matter that I bought it at an auction? I wouldn't think it would since the lawyers will go after Lincoln and not the dealer. Sorry for the long post. Thoughts, opinions, experiences? Thanks in advance.

-Frustrated Lincoln owner

akirby

Sounds like the former owner may have really ragged it out. That's the chance you take when you buy an auction car.

The lemon law only applies to new cars, not used cars (regardless of how or where you bought it). If the dealer had sold it to you as a CPO car you'd have a warranty. The dealer is also able to do AWAs (After Warranty Adjustments) where Ford picks up at least part of the cost. A tranny that fails at 50-60K should have been an easy sell for an AWA.

akirby

It's not in the owner's manual because that feature didn't come out until the 04 model year. The harness is to adapt the 03 radio to the 04 wiring - the 04 radio is different.

You have to buy the Mobile Ease kit (with the 03 harness) and install it before it will work. I guess I didn't make that clear.

akirby

Hey Andy - you still in Eskimo Land?

qbrozen

aha. i was worried about that. That's a $400 kit, right? Definitely not worth it, IMHO.

Yeah, i was looking at the controls again, and the picture of the phone is simply a way of saying "push this button to mute stereo so you can talk on your non-handsfree phone." lol.

qbrozen

i apologize if this has been covered. I've tried a few different searches on transmission and shifting and gotten LOTS of posts come up in the search, and I've tried sifting through, but by page 3 or 4, i just can't take it anymore.

SO, here goes.

I noticed on my drive to work this morning that the tranny seems to act a bit funky when accelerating slowly. I need to do some more testing, but it seems to me its shifting to 2nd just fine, but the shift to 3rd SEEMS to involve {go out of 2nd, engine revs up to 3k, then 3rd kicks in and revs abruptly drop back to around 2k}. Is this indicative of a problem? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

thanks again.

akirby

Some delay or different feel in the 2-3 shift is normal. This is really a 3 speed tranny plus overdrive (normally called a 4 speed auto). To get an extra gear the overdrive is engaged when the main tranny is in 1st gear - like this:

Gear Main OD
1 1 off
2 1 on
3 2 off
4 3 off
5 3 on

So for all the other gear changes only one thing is happening - either the main gear is changing or the OD is being engaged/disengaged. But for the 2-3 shift 2 things have to happen at the same time - main goes from 1 to 2 and OD is disengaged. If this is not timed perfectly then it feels bad.

So it could be a bad OD solenoid or it could be normal. Try disconnecting the battery to reset the tranny shift pressures and see what happens. Also try going into and out of OD (back and forth from 4 to 5).

Also check with your dealer - there were some problems with the 03 trannies requiring the valve body (IIRC) to be replaced, but I don't think the 2-3 shift was a symptom. Possible though.

qbrozen

thanks once again.

interesting stuff. I'll see how it goes on the way home tonight. Then, if necessary, disconnect the battery. I always leave the dealer trip until I've exhausted all other possibilities.

I do have a feeling something is wrong with my door keypad, though, so i may have to go to the dealer in the near future anyway. I tried for an hour last night to program the darned thing with no luck. Best I can figure is that the 1/2 button isn't always responding.

nvbanker

"How about an M35 or M45?"

Looked at 'em. In fact, the salesman kept trying to steer me that way too. But they look too much like the G-35, they're at least a foot shorter than the Q-45, which takes room from the cabin. I take clients to lunch and dinner, and need a large comfortable cabin. Also, they resemble a Cadillac CTS in the front - and I am not really fond of the CTS. Thanks for asking, though.

nvbanker

What year is the car? If you have a hydraulic fan, it has to be several years old, I believe, as that fan was replaced with an electric one in more recent years, wasn't it?

akirby

I think that was one of the 500 improvements to the 03+ models.

qbrozen

everybody is entitled to their opinion. no real debate.

this is the first american car i've bought in quite some time .... wait, i never actually checked where its built. Anyone know offhand?

My honda was built in Canada, so that's foreign ... but I think alot of the parts are from america. Not sure about that. My volvo is mostly swedish. My alfa is mostly italian. I know of alot of mexican chevys with lots of problems. its always a gamble no matter what you buy.

scootertrash

...and why was it being auctioned off instead of retailed?

qbrozen

well, the fact that it was auctioned isn't a problem in and of itself. Thousands upon thousands are auctioned every week at dealer-only auctions. Its pretty much how the used car business works.

However, I do find it interesting that both in this instance and in an instance with a friend of mine who was inappropriately brought to a dealer auction to buy a car, it ultimately turned out bad. Just goes to show you that saving a few bucks isn't always what its cracked up to be.

akirby

And for every LS like yours there are several that go over 100K with no real problems.

Toyota had engine sludge problems.
Honda had transmissions that would suddenly go into park or reverse at 65 mph.

There are no bulletproof car brands, nor are there any really, really bad ones like the early Korean cars. The worst cars today are as good as the best cars 15 years ago.

But I guess the grass is always greener on the other side........

lobsenza

No, I have been back for 3 weeks. But, I havent had time to catch up on everything yet.

lobsenza

I sat in the back seat of an M45. I think it is roomier than the LS.

nvbanker

That's not saying much - the back seat room, or lack thereof, is the main reason I don't own an LS. I like, and need, a back seat you can cross your legs in for my clients to relax in.

jdhebert23

I had the same problem around 75k miles in my 1997 Honda Accord Special Edition when I lived in some-what hilly Tallahassee, FL..I know these are two totally different cars, but it didn't feel right to me because it didn't do that when I first bought the car (at 68k). The local Honda dealer couldn't find the problem. They said that it was supposed to "hunt" for the right gear, which I later discovered was BS because I had looked on this very same forum under the Honda section. Apparently Honda introduced a "Grade-Logic" transmission in 1997, which was, in fact, supposed to PREVENT hunting. Armed with this info, I took it to the dealer and all they could do was shrug their shoulders. I would have it checked out by a dealer if I were you. IMHO, that could be VERY early signs of transmission failure. I ultimately got rid of the car before I could have it checked by another dealer, and before the transmission had the chance to fail on me. Like I said, this is a totally different car, but it's ironic I had the same experience......

scootertrash

Throttle position sensor?