Chrysler 300M

alg528

I am a mere babe in the woods when it comes to antique cars. I don't think I could tell one year from another. I did note that one was a 300 F and another was a 300 G, and a couple appeared to be later than those two. Aside from that, I can't tell you much. Oh, and a black 300M was parked among the older cars, too.

fastdriver

alg528-

LOL... THOSE are the only ones I can tell apart! Back then they used to change the styles all the time so that you COULD tell one year from another. Now, I couldn't tell you a 99 300M from a 2002 unless I had all the options memorized and looked in the car. ;-))

fastdriver

alg528

My method of telling one year from another for the 300 M is: the 2001 model year was the first to have chrome trim around the side windows, and chrome exhaust tips. If it doesn't have these, its a '99 or '00. The style of chrome wheels changed after 2000 from the razor stars to a different style. The wing emblem on the front grill of the 2002 is positioned at the top instead of centered, making it easy to tell a 2001 from a 2002. As to telling a '99 from a 2000, I don't know if there are any outward differences. Also, I don't know if the 2003 will look any different than the 2002.

scotian

Might be available in the US? Check out the last comment:

http://public.fotki.com/Scotian/300m/exterior/exterior/side_markers.html

300michael

change they did in 2001. Althoug some of us 99-00 now have them.

dodgeboy3

I traded my 1999 300M in on a 2002 300M Special. The Special seems to be a lot slower than the 1999 300M, even though the Special has 5 more hp. and a lower gear ratio. Anybody help me here?

Jack

ottowrkr

I know the place, but I think they want just the part number of the metal sill plate not the whole cladding piece. If anybody wants the whole cladding part number I can get it. If you just want the metal plate ,sorry that number we dont have

ezaircon4jc

I saw your twin at Witt today. I know you will think this is sacrilege, but it had a Witt L/M license plate frame! Somebody "M"ust have traded up for an LS . The front passenger side door was pretty scratched up . What a shame on such a good looking car.

wire2

>If I have the hole in the roof open..

I think what you're experiencing is the physical effects of resonance.
An air stream across an opening in a fixed volume chamber will cause a frequency to be produced, just like blowing across the top of a Coke bottle.
In a car, there's usually a "spoiler" that pops up at the front of the roof opening to interfere with this phenomenon. Without it, you'd get a very annoying low frequency popping in the cabin at speed.
What I think your heater fan is doing, is changing the parameters of the resonance by varying the cabin air pressure.

wire2

>The Special seems to be a lot slower ...

I suspect you just need to break in the '02 engine. It will generate noticeably more power after a few thousand miles. Also, the tranny is probably shifting conservatively for now.

dammitjim1

I'm currently being contacted by DC and my dealer trying to coax me into the 'Pull Ahead' program. The incentives seem nice until they get to the part about the residuals, and what it does to the lease price. I have an '00 300M fully loaded, ready to come off lease in a few months. I had been interested in basically the same options, plus the Luxury Group and side airbags. The lease rates were real easy with my current 300M with a residual of $19K!
Now it's more like 13K...ouch! The lease rate I was quoted was in the $470/month region - about $130 more than I now pay per month.

Another dealer I sought a competitive bid from told me I was better off waiting for the '03 300M - the residual would be higher. Any opinions? Wait, or bite the bullet now..OR look beyond DC for my next car.

fastdriver

Just found this for those interested in buying extended warranties. I never heard of this company and I know that many feel it is better to stick to the manufacturer's warranty, but this could be an alternative. You can get a free quote with just the make, model and year of your car. They are a member of the BBB, if that means anything anymore.

http://www.warrantywizard.com/default.asp

fastdriver

dammitjim1

I'm currently being contacted by DC and my dealer trying to coax me into the 'Pull Ahead' program. The incentives seem nice until they get to the part about the residuals, and what it does to the lease price. I have an '00 300M fully loaded, ready to come off lease in a few months. I had been interested in basically the same options, plus the Luxury Group and side airbags. The lease rates were real easy with my current 300M with a residual of $19K!
Now it's more like 13K...ouch! The lease rate I was quoted was in the $470/month region - about $130 more than I now pay per month.

Another dealer I sought a competitive bid from told me I was better off waiting for the '03 300M - the residual would be higher. Any opinions? Wait, or bite the bullet now..OR look beyond DC for my next car.

uxca300m

Thanks to Scotian I just installed a new clock face. Roman numerals in red to match the colour of my M. Cutting out the new face plate is a bit of a pain but well worth it in the end.

dammitjim1

I'm currently being contacted by DC and my dealer trying to coax me into the 'Pull Ahead' program. The incentives seem nice until they get to the part about the residuals, and what it does to the lease price. I have an '00 300M fully loaded, ready to come off lease in a few months. I had been interested in basically the same options, plus the Luxury Group and side airbags. The lease rates were real easy with my current 300M with a residual of $19K!
Now it's more like 13K...ouch! The lease rate I was quoted was in the $470/month region - about $130 more than I now pay per month.

Another dealer I sought a competitive bid from told me I was better off waiting for the '03 300M - the residual would be higher. Any opinions? Wait, or bite the bullet now..OR look beyond DC for my next car.

toms99

The Special *IS* slower. Car & Driver mentions this in their review. The 5 extra HP does not make up for the added weight (most of which is probably in those big wheels!)

km99cobra

Dammitjim1,

There's no easy answer. The fact is Chrysler, and other manufacturer's, are getting killed on lease turn-ins. That's been good for those of us who have been leasing over the past several years, but it seems to be coming to an end now. Look at your residual, I think you said $19K on the '00 300M, and then look at what they are selling for. I have a '99 300M with a $17.2K residual (56% of original MSRP) and they are wholesaling at auctions for $13-14K. Most are selling in this area around $15-16K. Chrysler's going to eat the difference this time, but the current 300M residuals are down around 40%, so what goes around comes around!

You can wait for the '03 M's to come out, and they will likely have a higher residual value than the '02s, but will they have the $2500 cash back/lease loyalty and low money factor (it's currently 0.00139 which translates to a 3.3%APR)? They also have the 7/100 Powertrain Pledge right now, which comes into play if you buy or lease beyond the 3/36 timeframe, and it may not be offered for '03 models. And last but not least, the Pull Ahead program is attractive if you want to take advantage of those current programs or if you will be over on miles at normal lease termination it's a way to save on that cost.

Many things to consider and ponder, as I'm sure you're doing. Good luck with your decision.

km99cobra

Was wondering, what would be the recommended mod's to try and tweak the Special to gain back some of the supposed 0-60 performance losses due to the weight gain etc.? Apparently the added HP didn't make up for the weight increase, if the Car & Driver review is accurate of course!

Otto, can you verify that the wheels have increased the unsprung weight? I know they are bigger at 18", but the 17" chrome Razorstar's aren't lightweight for sure. Do you know what the weight difference really is?

Does anyone think the "normal" mods that people have done on the standard 300M, like K&N/Bosch Platinum +4 plugs/throttle body/etc., will gain back enough HP to overcome the weight difference? Any further mods to the Special's dual exhaust, like Borla or Dynomax mufflers?

It would be a shame to keep the Special a step slower than a standard 300M. Why didn't they give it 300 HP in the first place!!:-P

bobspc

True, new one came with 7/100000 but this is powertrain only, was looking for more. Figure I will keep it for 5 years and consider this as prepaid expense, no deductible should basically have no cost other than wear items, still not 100% comfortable with reliability on electrical and other items. This also included first day rental car for whatever reason. If I take care in for service or warranty they give me a car. With the dealer I have now that is not an issue, but am moving to Phoenix and have not a clue about the dealers. Thought about this pretty long before I sprung, am going to retire so this is a way to predict, as best I can my expense on the car. Maybe next time I will take a chance but in a way I hope it pays off this time, then again I hope it does not. Sort of like sick leave, if I need it I have it but sure hope I do not need it! Thanks for the thought about refund though, you made me think again.

wire2

>Why didn't they give it 300 HP in the first place!!:-P

Keep in mind that 3.5 liters is +/- 210 cu in. so 250 hp is quite respectable. To get much more would require major expenditure, possibly dohc along with upgraded crank, rods, pistons.
Or a larger, totally new V6.
For a very limited target of buyers, it just ain't gonna happen.

no1trust

Just curious. When I drove across the (Van Buren) bridge into Tempe, I saw WATER in the Salt River. When I used to live there (81) I used to ride my bike (which continually got flat tires) or walk across the "river". Has dam building or something created something like permanent water there? Always loved Phoenix, BTW.

300michael

Yes the Special is slower (only .15sec in 0-60 times)then the non and the PHP 300M's. Most people would not notice the differance. Like previously mentioned the wheels and the body clading make it 70lbs heaver then the regular 300M's. You could take off the body cladding and that would help. Making the Performance mods will never get it up to the standard M's because of the weight. And the Special is only 2 hp more then the 99's If you did the same things as I have done Dual exhaust, Throttle body, Cone filter, and Ram air (only helps above 45mph) sticky tires, and a few other things, could push your times down to the very low 7's. Our moded M's are in the 275+hp (Chrysler HP) range or 185+ at the wheels.

300michael

Yes, that was not a marige you saw. They have installed a inflatable dam that controls the water level, and have called it Tempe Town Lake. Two weeks ago they had cardboard boating contests. It was great to see. About 1 out of ten sink before they make it to the finish line.

sdmike2

Spent 2 days in Vegas. Long drive, Interop show, Blue Man Group, clubbing, and an 8 hour death ride in the desert (mountain bikes). It's nice to be home.

I got extended warranty information from www.warrantydirect.com and went armed to the DC dealer when I bought big red. The dealer wanted $1,800 for the extended warranty but ended up taking about $1,000...which was slightly more than the warrantydirect price. I don't remember exactly which warranty I got. I'll look tomorrow. Time for shower (still dirty) and bed.
M

kosh_2258

While I read Car & Driver and generally pay attention to what they say I don't take what I read there, or any car mag, as gospel.

Car companies are known to "tweak" vehicles submitted for testing, especially when they are newly released. For all anyone knows the 99 that was test was "tweaked", while the Special probably was right off the line. Was it broken in yet? Probably not, since most magazines have a 2 month lead time between test and publish. The car was likely tested in late December. From what Otto had posted a while back, the test fleet was built the first two weeks of November and nothing left the plant until mid-December. Leaving very little time for it to get break-in miles.

I know for a fact my Special was plenty "tight" when I first got it and it has loosened up considerablely since then.

The only way to really know if a Special is slower, faster, or whatever is to put one up head to head against a stock 99 on the drag strip and see what happens.

grunschev

When people are talking about 18" wheels being heavier than the stock 17's I think they must be remembering Tom's (dubson) post about his 20" wheels weighing 76lbs each. His wheels are abnormally heavy! My 18's weigh in at 24lbs each. If you're that concerned about a couple pounds, lay off the desserts for a couple months and drop the pounds from the driver's seat! ;-)

I'd be willing to bet anybody who has 17" wheels plus the full size spare will have more weight in wheels and tires than a Special with the donut spare.

Igor

Kirstie_H

A television reporter is interested in hearing from folks who have driven long distances to get good prices when buying new cars or trucks. If you have a story to tell, please drop a line including your contact info and city/state of residence to jfallon@edmunds.com.

Thanks,

Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

denverm

I know that in racing bicycles, light wheel rims (light rotational weight) are MUCH more important that overall light weight. Part of that is due to the large diameter of a bicycle wheel, but physics establishes that substantial energy is needed to change the rotating speed of a massive object - the principle behind a flywheel. I have no idea of the extent to which this concept translates to cars, given the much greater power, smaller wheels, etc. It does seem entirely possible to me, however, that extra pounds in a car's wheels could have a greater negative effect on 0-60 times than the same amount of weight sitting in the trunk.

ruski

The lease residuals were a factor when I wanted to lease another 300M after my '99 300M lease ended. In 1998-99, no one knew what the residuals would really be because the car was so new, plus the economy was doing pretty well, so my '99 300M's residual was pretty high (maybe artificially so)

When my '99 300M lease ended, it turned out that the new 300M prices have grown while the actual residual values turned out to be worse than projected.

I could not get a good lease deal anymore, with the options that I wanted. Or at least it was quite difficult.

That's one of the reasons why I leased the 02 Acura TL-S. Acura's residual after 4 years is projected at 54% and helps to get decent monthly payments. Actually lower than my '99 300M.

My '99 300M was 0 down, taxes payed upfront ($1,800), $453 per month for 36 months.

My '02 TL-S is $1,500 down, $395 per month + $20 tax, 48 months.

Only if I could now get a peace of mind with this TL-S and its transmission problem.

forresth

I just got a call from my 5*. I have my 2001 with PHP in for the 15K service. I have been having a slight shimmy in the steering on light to moderate breaking. I figured I would have them turn the rotors and scuff the pads while they had the wheels off. They said they are charging US$120 for this. I called some places around me, because I remember having it done for less than this when I did my own break jobs. Quotes from machine shops range from 12 to 20 each. I called the dealer and they said that they do radial runout and have to disassemble the calipers and that is why they charge more than if I carry them to a machine shop. They did say they would give me a discount since they would have the wheels off for rotation anyway. I know some of you have special rotors and pads, my questions are;

1 How much work is involved?

2 About how long would the book rate and labor charge be to do this?

3 Is it a design problem that the breaks have this problem so early.

4 Is it likely to occur again in 10K miles?

I am looking at $140 bill for a 15k service. adding the $120 seems like a lot of money for what I remember as a 1 hour job. Warranty on breaks is only 12 mo/12k miles.

Thanks! for letting me vent.
Forrest

russklass

You are getting raped twice!
First DO NOT ask for a 15K service!
Check your owners manual...it probably only calls for an oil & filter change at 15K. Add maybe $20 for tire roration and you are still out only a $50 bill. You only need to follow the Mfgr. maintenance schedule to keep up your warranty.
Second, turning rotors is usually a waste of time & money, they usually warp again very soon, and then you have to pay for new ones.
You should POLITELY insist on NEW rotors, and Chrysler will pay for them up to 18,000 miles if the dealer asks. I had mine covered by Chrysler at 18K, and am going in Monday at 35K to have them replaced again.
I MAY offer to pay the labor if Chrysler covers the rotors.
Assert yourself, & good luck!
(Let us know what happens!)

bigmike5

Rotors--Don't know how much to turn them, but a local shop is going to charge me $90 to mount the four new ones with the new pads that are due in any day. I plan on having the old rotors turned and saving them just in case the new ones aren't as good as advertised. However, I was always told that when you turn the rotors you should replace the pads. Never had to do it tho.

RussKlass--I have the Woodward Dream Cruise/Brampton Plant tour sign. It looks pretty good compared to last years effort. Bigger [2 x 3'] and with a nice big club logo in the center. I will try to take some pics this weekend and send the hard copies to have SDMike post them. Also have some new "minor" mods I will ask him to post pics of.

fuzzywuzzy

I think the TL's are getting the updated tranny's as replacments. My build date is November 01. I picked it up December 1st. So it's a new build. The TL-S's were out in early 01.

fastdriver

Two more years before any new LH models?

http://www.auto.com/industry/iwira10_20020510.htm

I still can't believe they're not going to produce that 300 convertible. If they built it right- sturdy, no shake, rattle or roll, and it had a bigger engine, I think it would have been a winner. Then again, what do I know. I'm just a consumer.

fastdriver

clpurnell

God I hate the 5* dealer Service Dept where I bought my car. I have the following problems that I brought it in for.

1. Driver and Passenger side windows making grinding and clunking noises - Fixed window regulators replaced.

2. Leather Seats deteriorating- Seat Bottom ordered 10-14 day wait

3. Wheel clunks and feels loose when turned to extremes. - Could not duplicate (Even though I had TSB for exact problem)

4. Burning odor from HVAC system - Could not duplicate.

Also could not duplicate the seat shifting problem on previous visit. Any Ideas or recommendations for dealers in Chicago or Houston (will be moving there soon) dealers. TIA

PS
Had a breeze as a loaner. God the car was filthy and sucked. Now I remember why I traded my stratus in

muskateer3

The reason this is happening in my opinion is that the rotors on the M and many other modern cars are simply under-engineered for the vehicle. Chrysler attempts to compensate for this by putting low-friction pads on the car, but it is not the best setup.

New front rotors - aftermarket OEM spec are selling for around $50. The dealer will not be disassembling the calipers, they will simply be removing and replacing them.

As to how much work is involved? If you planning on doing these yourself, you need to really be familar with brakes. This particular design is more complicated to service than it needs to be. I have been doing my own brakes for years, and I still learned a few new curse words doing these.

Plan on 1 hour if you are familiar with the Kelsey-Hays caliper setup on these cars, 3 hours if you are familiar with brakes in general, and a lifetime otherwise.

$120 is high. I whole-heartedly agree with russklass... ask for new rotors.

Is it likely to occur again in 10K miles? In my opinion... you bet. Depends on your terrain and driving style, but based upon your experiences to date, plan on it. Sorry!

I must add that I still love the car despite my hating the brakes. I have just gotten good at brake jobs on KH brakes. You have to balance all the things the car does so well with this one thing it doesn't.

silverbullet4

You are mostly right-it depends on the type of race. Thirty years ago it was felt that the lightest possible rim laced up with 28 or 32 stainless steel spokes was the way to improve performance. Then it was aero rims (heavier) and bladed spokes to cut air resistance from spinning all that metal. At some point, usage called for a divergence of design. Time trialers, like tri-geeks, accelerate to cruising speed and use the most aerodynamically efficient body position and equipment for 28+ mph. This led to much stiffer wheel rims (sometimes weightier) and radically fewer spokes, with exotic materials requiring unbelievable prices. My bike is 13 years old, but weighs less (21 lbs.) than almost any new bike I see tested, at least in that price range.
($2,000).

Regards,
Silver, USCF Cat. IV (retired):>)

toms99

I suppose if every dime mattered it *might* be worth driving a long distance on price alone, but there are other *intangibles* your reporter should consider. I have a dealer that is close-by where I work and live. I don't even know what their "star" designation is...If they are not 5 Star, they should be. They have great service, even fixing a couple of things that were not covered under warranty at *no charge.* The sales dept. was friendly and no pressure at all. I bought my 99LHS off lease and my wife's 01 Concorde there. Both times the price was fair...not cut-throat but fair. Yeah, I could have saved maybe $100 or even $200 by driving all over the state, but considering what I have read here and elsewhere about crummy dealerships and poor service, $100 to $200 is *well* worth it to make a deal with a friendly, competent dealer nearby ANY day!

denverm

Yeah, you caught me ;-) all my experience with bicycle wheels is from a bygone era (I worked in a bike shop 24-20 years ago, and here's a pic of my 25 year old Cinelli with my 300M). The old bicycle adage was, "an ounce in the wheels is worth pound in the frame." Time trialers may choose to sacrifice the better acceleration of lighter wheels in exchange for the lower wind resistance of the high-tech wheels, because they are not doing as much acceleration as a criterium rider. Here, 300M owners are wondering about the effect of heavy wheels on 0-60 or quarter mile acceleration times, and there's no corresponding wind resistance issue. I still don't know, though, if the rotating extra mass in car wheels has a significantly greater effect on 0-60 times than the same extra mass sitting in the car's trunk.

beach15

">Why didn't they give it 300 HP in the first place!!:-P

Keep in mind that 3.5 liters is +/- 210 cu in. so 250 hp is quite respectable."

I have no dispute as to the 250 horsepower still being a respectable number, but that's is all it is, a "NUMBER", nothing else. In the year and a half that we had our 00' M, the one thing (among many others) we did not like, was the absolute lack of power. This supposed sports sedan felt like a dog from day one, and the performance never really improved. My mother who owned the car mentioned the fact, but never really said much because the car looked so nice.

My father on the other hand, used not so nice words to describe the power, saying it wasn't much different from a stop than our G. Voyager with the 150 horsepower 3.0 liter V6. That, and the excessive noise inside was completely unacceptable, but that's a whole other story. One of the fastest cars he had described as "throwing you back in the seat" was his former boss's 92-93 Caddy Deville, which you "needed to be careful not to go too fast in town".

Both of them also loved the 02' Buick Lesabre we had for a month as a rental. My dad loved the snappy 3.8 and my mother loved the power, brakes, space, and comfort. Sure, boring and even ugly, but so comfy and with such a great reputation for quality, how could you go wrong?

About the only thing that classified as power was the fact that the engine was very high winding (typical of OHC engines) and seemed to love passing or flying on the freeway. It's just that it took a few hours to get up to those speeds in the first place! Personally, I also loved the growl at high RPM when making such moves. From driving the thing several times myslef, it just felt like you were pushing on a 5 foot deep spring before you'd start to move. That, and the transmission was absolutely horrible, never operating correctly. And, I don't think you could make a noisier car, especially one over $30k to compete in the mid-lux group.

In the meantime, I've had the chance to drive may cars, and have found that all my opinions on the M were correct. So far, the easiest and best performing car was my grandmother's 99' Olds Intrigue GX with the 3.8 V6. I know some of you guys have had them as rentals, and I'm not too hot with the el-cheapo interior, but power, braking, handling, ride, solidity, it's all right. The steering has perfect weight and requires just the right amount of effort. The brakes are very linear, precise, and easy to modulate. The power is also just about perfect at all speeds, and the handling is great with an absence of body roll and very tight responses. I was also much more comfortable in the more upright seating position too.

And then the Avalanche, or you know, the big ugly plastic leggo box! We now have 2,200 miles on the big black beauty, and it just keeps getting better and better! I thought this thing was smooth as silk when new, now it's just incredible beyond words! There's also no odd noises, and road noise is non-existent, amazing to me, and proven with the fact that there's no tire noise even over concrete highways! And power, well, it's beyond any vehicle we've ever had or driven. When my father drives, he's always getting yelled at for "driving too fast" too which he replies "well, I'm still used to the stupid 300M's dead spot slack". To sum it up, after driving it quite often, even the slightest touch of the gas and you're soaring like a rocket, that's the best way to describe it. And, even better, as is typical GM, the transmission is just about perfect without a hint of jiggle or "bump" and it snaps of perfectly timed up and down shifts.

Well, sorry for the long post, it's just when someone says something about a 300M and power, I just can't help but laugh and respond! I've been reading constantly about new info on the 300N (there isn't much) and all that's been coming out on the Hemi, and all I can say is that I hope the engineers get it right this time. I have this weird feeling that as far as performance, it's going to have good numbers like the M, but rather disappointing performance.

Wish you all good luck with your M's! I must say, when an M goes buy, I still turn around and stare! Just like fastdriver, love the looks, but would never own another!

beach15

Oh yeah, I forgot! One of our neighbors who's been looking at new cars recently, was telling us about driving a new 300M. It was just your average non-PHP M, and he did like many things about it like the style, comfort, and features for the price, but had one main complaint: POWER. He said he'd driven a few comparable cars (not exact on which ones) and after getting in and driving, it just felt as though the car "had very weak oomph" and "felt taxed when pushed hard". We were telling him we had the same complaint too, and he said he still liked the M but was leaning towards something a little more performance-oriented (I'm guessing TL-S or G35). That, and something about it feeling less refined than he had expected, with more noise and harshness than many other cars he'd been in. It being a 02', I guess there really must not be that much of a difference in noise over the 00's or 01's?

Sorry for being so down on the M lately, it even hurts me sometimes to badmouth such a beautiful piece of art!

300michael

The 3.0 Grand Caravan was as fast as the 300M. That is a laugh considering is it about 4 seconds (0-60) slower then the 300M. Actually the 300M is in the middle of the power band when it comes to Entry level lux cars Look at the Catera, CTX and even the LS. The 300M beats them all. Having a 7 second M I think I can say Power and 300M in the same sentance. It even keeps up (or in my case passes) the V8 LS.
GM and quality now that makes for a good laugh.

sdmike2

oh...nevermind

300michael

is only .2 tens faster then my M so he better go with the BMW's.

silverbullet4

Wow! A Cinelli! What a classic Italian beauty. Looks like full Campy. Mine is a '88 Basso Gap, equiped with Shimano DuraAce Index Shifting (7-speed cluster with down-tube shifters), Cinelli handlebars and stem. Tubular aero rims w/Heishi bladed spokes, yada, yada.

Regards, Silver

easyrider300m

I speak for myself and also think I speak for many other 300M owners:

A while back you promised not to find fault with the M anymore as you had repeated your disatisfaction with it ad nauseaum. You obviously were not happy with your M and after smashing your M up you continued to badmouth the car even though some or your problems were accident related.

Now you own an Avalanche TRUCK. That vehicle is not even remotely related to the M. I am happy to hear that your are satisfied with your new purchase. May you enjoy it in good health.

However, seeing that you no longer own an M and do not own a vehicle even in the same catagory (such as the Acura TL or CL), I think it may be best that you stick to the Edmunds board for your vehicle. I think most posters here could care less about your opinions on the Avalanche TRUCK. That is probably the last truck that most here would ever consider buying even if they were in the truck market. Also, I feel there is really no need for you to voice your opinions on the M as you no longer own one or even own a CAR for that matter and we all already know your opinions about the M.

Enjoy your TRUCK and if you ever purchase an M or a CAR even remotely similar to an M, you would be more than welcome here. But I think most members here would prefer that you cease repeating your disatisfaction with the M on this board.

Easyrider300M

videoman1

There's more to buying a car than speed...unless you're running the NASCAR circuit. Looks, comfort, and ride all rank up there with acceleration. And quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone can say the 300M is sluggish, slow, or have nerve to compare it to a Dodge Caravan...give me a break.

I have yet to see a car on the road that even comes close to the styling of the exterior and interior of the 300M. BMW, Acura, Lexus, Saab, and even GM cars like Bonneville look bland when sitting next to an M. And I'm sorry, to me, that's what it's all about. I guess that's why my all time favorite car is the Ferrari 308 GTS Quattrovalvole. There's a lot of cars that can beat it's 6.8 second 0-60 time, but who cares, it's hot and quite a head turner. (PS, you can pick one up for around $35,000 now).

There's not much out there that will out handle the 300M either. Just take a look at some of the car mags. Most rank it very close to no. 1 in handling. Let's get the slalom number of the Caravan.

As for interior noise, I used to think mine was loud, until I drove my parents 2000 Grand Prix GT. Talk about loud. But even if you think the 300M is loud inside, according to most people here, a swap of the tires is all it takes.

So take your CTS, LS, CTX, TL-S, MOUSE and go have fun racing each other. For me, I'd rather take a nice 25 mph cruise around our county park.

achance

I can't find any reason to respond to Beach15's adolescent drivel. When you buy the car yourself, you can complain about it. Yes, Pat, I'm flaming the little punk again.

mikeyjohn

I think we all should just ignore this 15 year old kid, and not give him the time of day. It must be very lonely on the Avalanche site so he comes back once in a while to egg us on. Maybe Pat can suspend him from the 300 site until he shows a little respect. IMHO.

fedlawman

Don't you think you were a little harsh on beach15? This is the 300M "town hall" forum, not the "owners forum." The observation his neighbor shared with him is valid and his input should be welcome, especially if it sparks a good discussion.

This doesn't take anything away from the 300M, especially since it was the benchmark just two years ago. A little less speed and a little more harshness is a good compromise for more room, a lot more style, and a knockout cockpit.

The G35 and TL-S are awesome cars. The 300M is in good company.

300mike - GM quality comments from a DC owner? LOL