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Chrysler 300M

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Comments

  • phases78phases78 Posts: 471
    oh man....... is everyone okay??? i hope once the 'shock' of the situation goes away, you are all still just 'shook up'. man... im real sorry to hear that, it seems like nearly everyone here has had there M in a wreck.. is it totalled? sounds like it.. what are you gonna do? eh screw it worry about that later, im just glad your okay...

    ..phases78
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    you guys ok?? And did you go see a doctor. I'm being serious. I know, whiplash is the most commonly abused injuries, but it does exist, and it royally sucks. I was rear ended in a caravan by a fully loaded F150. I was a little sore that day, thought no big deal. Next day I go out to the car (rental...) and I can't even open the car door! Pain is so harsh down my right side... I didn't even notice because what do you need to pull to put on clothes?

    Anyway, get it checked out. Hope all is well - maybe you'll get an 02 special? :-D
  • fastdriverfastdriver Posts: 2,273
    beach15 -

    Sorry to hear the bad news. Hope you're okay. Don't worry about the car. That can be replaced. Worry about yourself right now. The advice above is good- go to the doctor. Don't take any chances. Let us know how you are.

    fastdriver
  • denvermdenverm Posts: 356
    Those extra 8 horses are a 5% increase over 162. Assuming your mods cost $750, that's a 2.5% increase in cost over $30K. Not an exactly equal comparison, though, since the $30K buys a lot more than just horsepower. Interesting numbers, but it would still be nice to see the HP change in one car from stock to modified with all tests on the same dyno, to rule out most other variables. Like valhs, I've always been impressed with the car in stock form; it performs well enough that I haven't had a burning itch to spend that extra $750. I'm not sure that a 5% increase in HP would give me a 2.5% increase in total vehicle satisfaction.
  • seems hp is not the only benefit--members here such as 300michael have reported a big increase in fuel efficiency---I have not done any mods and only am getting 17.1 mpg at best. This is combo highway city driving. Never got much better than this in over 24K of driving. Maybe its the reformulated gas here in NE. I have been using midgrade gas. Anyone else getting such low mpg?
  • denvermdenverm Posts: 356
    That's a good point, if the mods give an extra mile or two per gallon that would add up and might eventually pay back most of the cost. I consistently get about 18.2 mpg driving fairly enthusiastically in town, using regular gas. That doesn't thrill me, but I sure ain't gonna drive like there's an egg on the gas pedal! On a highway trip recently, driving at fairly high speeds, I got closer to 24 mpg, if I remember correctly.
  • Hello all, too many meetings to get back sooner today. Brent put the note on the Dyno runs on NMIFR300M up on the club web page.

    http://www.300mclub.org/dyno.htm

    I guess I'm not to surprised by 99_300mic.. comments. I believe Chrysler has really made a fine machine. I'm doing the dual mod because I like the way it looks, the simple K&N air filter maybe all that is necessary on the input side. In any event I intend to do all the mods and document the difference as I go.


    Now I offer a piece of hope for increase HP that I have not mentioned before and I haven't seen mentioned in any of the postings since I joined last June. I haven't tried it myself and I am waiting for some more information. When doing the dyno testing and visiting with Chris I mentioned that I had a young friend, Grad Student at Texas A&M that we sponsored this summer, that has put himself through college by building race cars and doing high performance mods for the rich University students. (Gee I don't mean to insult anyone.) He grew up next to the Indy Car Race Way in Colorado Springs and has been in the garages since he was nine. He was a registered Porche mechanic at 18. Down in Texas he created a high performance shop and has a crew working for him. All this to establish the credibility of the tuning trick below.


    OK all the things we do add maybe 8 to 10 HP at the wheel. That is OK. I will do test with the Bosch plugs but I don't believe their claim. I work with the process of electrical breakdown in high pressure gases and if you have four points to break down then on any given firing only one will break down with significant energy and the breakdown will move around the four points. This is Ok for increasing plug life time. If there is an increase in HP it is because the spark maybe more exposed.


    Now let me know if you all know this trick.


    First of all use the normal Champion Plugs. Second mark the plugs on the outside so you know which way the open gap points. You can get shim sets so that when you put the plugs in you can control the the direction that this gap faces. If the gap is set to face the major swirl pattern in the cylinder you will be more efficient in burning the fuel. My friend, and Chris agrees, that this can gain you ten to twenty horse power. Wow add that to the 8 that we already gained and we might see a total gain of 18 to 28 HP at the wheel. Corresponding to 271 to 281 at the flywheel. Now the reason I haven't mentioned this before is that my friend is trying to find out for our 3.5L engine what is the direction the gap should face. Now this is something that can be done as tuning runs on a dyno. One would begin by shiming all plugs so that the gap is pointing toward the intake manifold. Then do a dyno pull. Now add the more shims to turn all the plugs in same direction, going around the longest distance towards the exhaust port. Get the idea. Using a halving process for choosing the direction you will probably hit the sweet spot after five tries. So you got to record your position data carefully and watch the peak power on the dyno run. Now the "The Dyno's Edge" has a introductory offer of $50 for one run, $65 for two runs, and $75 for three runs and allows 15 mins of time to work on the car between runs. After the first hour the charge is $80/hour. And you can get about three runs in an hour. Hence to try and find the sweet spot may cost as much as $170 worth of dyno time. Well this is a lot but not as expensive as what we have been doing to gain that first 8 HP. I was planning on doing this on my own after I had made and tested the other mods first.


    Well what do you all think??

  • Thanks for the comments guys. I don't regret the mods and wasn't suggesting everyone stop modding. I was just kinda surprised at first at what I got as an overall number.

    Yes I agree, there have been fuel mileage improvement and also throttle response improvements too that don't necessarialy change the peak horsepower, just the shape of that curve and better seat dyno feel. My graph showed the car was contining to gain horsepower all the way to 6500 RPM when the car shifted into the next gear. I never saw it fall off. That is probably where the extra air flow is helping. If the motor could turn 8000 like a racecar it probably would have even more HP, but the computer (rightly so) won't let that happen. Autostick forced a 1 - 2 shift at 6500 and a 2 - 3 shift around 6700.

    Another intesting observation, the peak HP values during shifts hit 268, where Dillons looks only around 200. Not sure what that means, since those numbers are (probably) kinda meaningless.

    The dyno shop thought that 170 real HP was good for a V6. They were impressed the HP did not fall off, as they regularly test race car engines that turn 8000 RPMs and they show a peak and start to drop off after say 7000+ rpm. They said a V8 Rwd Automatic usually loses 18-20% and FWDs (transverse) even more. Add our 90 deg engine mounting and differential and we lose some little more. ABout a 30-35% loss.

    Standing next to your car and listening to it at redline and see the wheels turn 130 mph is quite awesome. These little 3.5L engines really are quite impressive.

    As for the spark plug indexing, I would think that with the Bosch +4s you might not have to do that. Yeah that's an old racing trick. Interestingly the dyno guys told me to install Autolite plugs. They can't explain why, but have done several tests where changing nothing but the plugs to autolites can pick up 5 - 10 HP. When I told them what I had, especially that my +4s have 30,000 miles on them, they really suggested the Autolites. Forgot to ask if Autolite Platinums would do the same thing.
  • Other thoughts. I traveled back from Portland, Or recently with four adults in the car, the trunk packed. We were all comfortable. Had occasion to hit 110 passing some one and my father in law, a very conservative driver, was amazed that the car didn't seem to be going anywhere near that fast and the car was steady as a rock. Even earlier on the trip when I hit 124 heavily loaded on the way up to Portland. The car is so clean it is hardly effected by strong winds. As other mention 253 HP from 215 cu in. in. is fantastic. I owned a Nissan Maxima before this and looked at them and the Acura TLS. Both of these may have better 0-60 time, with there new HP boost, but I chose the 300M for the overall quality, performance, and drivability.

    Are we crazy to do these mods. No we are enthusiast. After the Dyno testing I hung around and watched two Corvets, both ZO6 one a 2001 and one a 2002. Run on the Dyno. They were swapping intakes to see if that explained the 20 HP boost the 2002 had over the 2001. The 2001 guy was also switching his exhaust and was very pleased that the Brola custom exhaust gave him an extra 6 HP at the wheel. Now maybe guys with these high performance cars are crazy, spending money for a few extra HP, but we certainly are not!
  • I'll say it again. It's not the 3.5L engine. It's a great engine that makes ALOT of power at the flywheel, but in the M it's the drivetrain that makes the whole package suffer. A stock dyno chart for a Prowler, with the same engine, totaly stock, with the Prowlers RWD drivtrain makes 200+hp to the ground. Add mods to it, & I have seen charts that have it pegged at close to 240 hp at the wheels.
  • I disagree I tested the acura CL-S/TL-S I can say that it doesn't have the top end over 100 that the M has, but the "overall quality, performance, and drivability" is alot better then the M. At least now. Back in 99-2000 I bought the M for the bang for the buck cost factor, the M was it. A nice package, but now there's other cars which are cheaper, equal, or better then the M. I really can't see the M's sales doing anything the next 2 long years untill the redesign. Just look at the plant closers Otto is suffering through.
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    Well, looks like autobarn has the autolites and since I was considering the bosch, it may not be a bad way to go due to the recommendation. However, do you think you'd have to index them? I don't have the time/$ to do several runs at a dyno shop, and don't know where one is either ;)
  • I heard that a tuning trick was to put in spark plugs with a torque wrench. This was many years ago and concerned a small block Chevy. I guess that would ensure consistent depth positioning of the spark gap in the combustion chamber. Anybody know if there is a torque spec? Or do the compressable washers I see under plugs mess up the values?

    Alignment of the electrode gap is an intriguing idea. Just another variable that may be dependent on the grade of gas, RPM, ambient temp., etc. Living in a Federally-mandated smog additive area sucks. There's no telling how that stuff affects performance. It does make my wife's minivan exhaust stink horribly.

    Please keep posting that dyno information. And any track testing as well. Thanks!

    Silver
  • Does anyone know the pinouts for the stock 360watt, 11 speaker infinity amp?
  • If anyone wants my 18's with tires, email me JTalbot@broadwaytrading.com
  • drpixeldrpixel Posts: 256
    Like you, easy my mileage has not been stellar as far as I'm concerned. I seem (according the S.O.) to be averaging about the same as you--sometimes a little higher, around 19 or 21 when its mostly highway driving.
    Since I commute into Noo Yawk, I don't do much driving into the City--New York is treacherous enough when you're on foot! Also, I don't really worry about the mileage that much, but then gas is running about $1.25--$1.29 a gallon for mid-grade.
    I agree with denverm "...I've always been impressed with the car in stock form; it performs well enough that I haven't had a burning itch to spend that extra $750.". Hmmmm...maybe a SpiralMax @$70.00 would do the trick.......? !

    Doc
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    you have to run out during lunch at work to 'touch up' the shine...

    I'm guilty! Had to run over the coat once with a quick shine... :-D
  • drpixeldrpixel Posts: 256
    RADTECH
    Did you get the floppy disk mailer I sent you?

    Doc
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    did you get my email?
  • ed12ed12 Posts: 100
    I have a 300M reaching the end of the lease. I just test drove a 2002 Passat 4 motion. I much prefer my 99 300M with 51000 miles over the brand new VW. my 2 cents
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    so keep that one or buy a new one :) But I'm glad you prefer the M. Friend of mine has an 01 passat. He likes his more than mine, but I've been in it. It has some nice features, but all in all I think the M is more value...
  • sdmike2sdmike2 Posts: 2,909
    Guilty! heh. I won't do that when my wife is around. She thinks I'm nuts anyway. Are you a Zaino user? You're a perfect candidate to keep a container of Z6 gloss enhancer spray in your M. ;)
  • sdmike2sdmike2 Posts: 2,909
    passat = too small
  • splattsplatt Posts: 328
    Actually I have a bottle of the spray wax and cleaner from Meguiar's. Supposed to be a good brand ;) I'll probably switch to zaino when I run out. I've never gotten into it with previous cars, but something about the nice shine on the M... :-D

    Doc - got home and got the packet today. Thanks!
  • scotianscotian Posts: 1,064
    AMPLIFIER PINOUTS

    2000 300M Service Manual, pp. 8W-80-56, 57:

    Power Amplifier C1 (white):
    01------06
    07------12

    01 - 18 LG/VT Amplified Left Door Speaker (+)
    02 - 18 LB/RD Amplified Right Door Speaker (+)
    03 - 18 YL/RD Amplified Left Door Sail Speaker (+)
    04 - 18 OR/RD Amplified Right Door Sail Speaker (+)
    05 - 18 WT/VT Amplified Low Left Rear Speaker (+) *
    06 - 18 TN/VT Amplified Low Right Rear Speaker (+) *
    07 - 18 LG/BK Amplified Left Door Speaker (-)
    08 - 18 LB/BK Amplified Right Door Speaker (-)
    09 - 18 YL/BK Amplified Left Door Sail Speaker (-)
    10 - 18 OR/BK Amplified Right Door Sail Speaker (-)
    11 - 18 WT/DG Amplified Low Left Rear Speaker (-) *
    12 - 18 TN/DG Amplified Low Right Rear Speaker (-) *

    * Premium II Audio

    Power Amplifier C2 (white):
    01-----------11
    12-----------22
    (pins 3-10, 14-21 are offset)

    01 - 16 RD/WT Fused B(+)
    02 - 16 BK/LG Ground
    03 - 20 DG/RD Radio 12v Output (live when radio is on)
    04 - 18 VT Right Front Speaker (+)
    05 - 18 DG Left Front Speaker (+)
    06 - 18 DB/WT Right Rear Speaker (+)
    07 - 18 BR/YL Left Rear Speaker (+)
    08 -
    09 - 18 PK/RD Amplified Center Instrument Panel Speaker (+)
    10 - 18 WT/RD Amplified High Left Rear Speaker (+)
    11 - 18 TN/RD Amplified High Right Rear Speaker (+)
    12 - 16 RD Fused B(+)
    13 - 16 BK/LG Ground
    14 -
    15 - 18 DB/RD Right Front Speaker (-)
    16 - 18 BR/RD Left Front Speaker (-)
    17 - 18 DB/OR Right Rear Speaker (-)
    18 - 18 BR/LB Left Rear Speaker (-)
    19 -
    20 - 18 PK/BK Amplified Center Instrument Panel Speaker (-)
    21 - 18 WT/BK Amplified High Left Rear Speaker (-)
    22 - 18 TN/BK Amplified High Right Rear Speaker (-)

    (pins 4-7, 15-18 are signal level input)

    Service Manual, pp. 8F-3, 8W-90-18:

    The Midline/Infinity I amp is located in the right front cowl panel next to the HVAC unit and recirculation air motor (above and in front of the right foot of the front seat passenger).

    The Infinity II amp location is located beneath the trunk liner covering the right quarter inner panel (behind the passenger rear wheel well inside the trunk).

    RADIO PINOUTS

    2000 300M Service Manual, pp. 8F-4, 8W-80-60:

    Radio C1 (black):
    7-------1
    (tab on top)

    1 - 20 DG/RD Radio 12V Output
    2 - 18 BR/YL Left Rear Speaker (+)
    3 - 18 DB/WT Right Rear Speaker (+)
    4 - 18 DG Left Front Speaker (+)
    5 - 18 VT Right Front Speaker (+)
    6 - 18 BR/LB Left Rear Speaker (-)
    7 - 18 DB/OR Right Rear Speaker (-)

    Radio C2 (gray):
    7-------1
    (tab on top)

    1 - (Radio Mute ?)
    2 - 18 BR/RD Left Front Speaker (-)
    3 - 18 DB/RD Right Front Speaker (-)
    4 - 20 YL/BK Day Brightness Sense (Head/Park marker lamps)
    5 - 20 OR Panel Lamps Driver (Dimmer)
    6 - 20 RD Fused Ignition Switch Output (RUN-ACC)
    7 - 20 PK Fused B(+) (Memory)
  • valhsvalhs Posts: 63
    My LHS is basically stock. I added the K&N filter because many here said it worked and it did. Noticeable improvement in exceleration above 50 mph and better gas mileage.

    I'm looking at dual exhaust, not for the HP but for the looks and sound. Once I saw "Big Red's" set up, I knew I had to have it. Also someone posted a wave file of their's and it sounded great.

    As far as gas mileage goes, I'm getting consistent 22 mpg in mixed driving. Last highway trip netted 30 mpg. I always, and I do mean always, run 93 octane. Now before you bury me with posts regarding the fact that I've negated any increase in mileage with the increase in cost per gallon, or the argument that the computer cannot/will not/ or does not adjust timing for the increased octane, save your breath.

    Like my 86 year old Grandmother that swears her Honda Accord has made it past 150,000 miles because of her red velvet dash pad and plastic jesus. I believe that by running 93 octane, using the slick 50 treatment after break-in and changing my oil every 3,000 miles that my LHS will live forever.

    Truth and facts be damned. It's my perception and you can't have it!!!
  • beach15beach15 Posts: 1,305
    First of all, I'd like to clarify on who this post and some others are from. It is my mother who has (or now had) the 300M and sometimes either I or my dad posts on here using the same name "beach15". I am the 15 year old son and was in the crash yesterday, here's what happened:

    I'm diabetic and yesterday me and my mom went from where we live in southern Delaware on a 1.5-2 hour trip north to Wilmington (right next to Philly) to A.I. Dupont Children's Hospital for an insulin pump class. This was the first time my mother had drove up and she was more worried about 95 to Wilmington (very busy & fast), but we made it quick. Went through the appointment and left a little before 3:00 in the afternoon. Once again, the trip went smoothly and we made it all the way until about 40 minutes from home and were in Milford. The main highway through Delaware, 113, which we were on, goes right through this town/city and there are several stores, plazas, and some stoplights not to far from one another. We made it through one light, got to the other and stopped.

    We were only stopped about 1-2 seconds and were about the third car back and started to talk. Instantly, we heard very loud squealing right behind us and just as we went to look, all hell broke loose. We were both in the front, and our 300M got hit so hard in the back that I still can see the trunk smashing up into the air, the freight train sound, and the bakc window shattering and flying in slow motion through the car. I started screaming and we sat there for a second, before she put it in park and jumped out. The people in the big van that hit us yelled at her to shut the car off and then someone yelled "GAS!!!". I had just jumped out and opened the back passenger's door, grabbing my backpack, her purse, and another bag, then ran to the curb.

    We both were shaking and my mom was balling as we looked at our beautigul year and 4-day old car that was smashed into nothing in the back. But to top it off, our car's gas tank had ruptured and the gas from our car was spilling all over the road with the other car still running. What happened was this:

    We stopped at the stoplight as usual. An extend-length full-size Dodge Ram van was either behind us or to the left. According to many whitnesses, this older Volvo station wagon kept on flying and they could see it wasn't going to stop. It hit the big van so hard and so fast, that the van was pushed into our car, totally obliterating the back. We and the people in the van jumped out of our cars and were in the parking lot of a back that was right there, and many, many people pulled over and came out of the bank to help us. At the same time, my mom was trying to call my dad who was on the way and someone at work to come check on my younger brother at home.

    We stopped the entire southbound highway and had just about all the police and firetrucks from the town there. They sprayed foam all under our 300M and then used I think kitty litter. We were there for about an hour in the parking lot. I was shaking so bad and in such shock that the paramedics had to ask me where I was. Rollbacks came and then took the cars. A few guys were around ours, having opened the hood and disconnected the battery. The hooked chains to it and drug it up on the truck, the front bumper being what it was drug up on. Then my dad got there, and the paramedics took us, he followed.

    My mom's neck ws hurting and the put her on the stretcher, I just rode beside her in the back. They checked us out at the hospital, gave my mom neck brace to where and gave us passes that we can't go back to work or school until Friday. We went with my dad to the impound lot to see if we could get our stiff from the car but they were closed. Finally, we headed home in my dad's blue 1969 Chevrolet Malibu that is now our family car.

    Now, comes the bad part. Not only are we hurting today, but my parents have been trying to deal with our Insurance company--Allstate--over what happened. Get this, since the age of 16, and both with Allstate, neither of them have had any accident let alone even a single speeding ticket. But, even though, we, the absolutely innocent people, were sitting stopped at a red light and got creamed, they want US to be paying all these charges and bills! My mom has been trying to figure this out today, meanwhile we have no car, and all they can tell her is what we don't have as coverage and what we're going to have to pay. She jus can't stop balling and doesn't know where we're going to get all this money from, all because we stopped at a light.

    We bought the 300M last year on October 18. 17,000 was financed and 15,000 is still owed on a 60-month loan. From what it sounds like, we're getting royaly screwed because some old people who weren't paying attention and were flying like a bat out of hell, creamed a van that totalled our car. I really don't know what we're going to do and our insurance (does anyone here have Allstate?) refuses to do what their supposed to. My poor mother has to sit here in a neck brace calling the Insurance, calling the police, and calling the back, in a sense, doing Allstate's job.

    As for the car, I think it's done. Not only was the back end, mostly the driver's side completely smashed into the window, but the window is gone, and the back door on that side won't open. It sat and still is sitting in an impound lot and when my dad went this morning, he said that the frame on that side is crinkled up into where the trunk was and because of no window, the whole bak seat and other parts of the interior were soaked because of the night dew.

    Basically, I don't know what the hell were going to do. We innocently are sitting at a red light when some moron isn't paying attention, and there goes our new car and the Insurance and police won't help or do what they're supposed to. We have no pics or I'd try and put them here somewhere, but we really have other things to worry about. It could have been much worse, with all of our car's gas all over the road, we could have burnt up.

    Now, at least trying to think ahead, is we can get something done, and if our car is PROVEN totalled, both of my parents have said that the next car will be bigger and stronger, probably an SUV. But, in the meantime, they have to drag our car up on another truck and drop it off at the body shop that our Insurance wants--their making us pay a $100 for this too. Also, we have now found out that our Insurance does not cover towing nor will it pay for a rental car. I really don't know what we're going to do.

    I'm still really shaky and sore and my mom's pain is getting worse. The worst thing is that they haven't said if our car is totalled, because they won't get someone to look at it. In the meantime, it continues to get more damaged as it sits smashed and missing a window. Even if they want to fix it, my mom said she won't drive a wrecked car and this acci
  • fastdriverfastdriver Posts: 2,273
    beach15-

    WOW!!! Where do I start? Glad you're both "okay". So sorry to read about all this. Here in CT, an insurance company CANNOT tell you where to bring the car to be repaired. It sounds like you need to get a good lawyer FAST so that you will know what your rights are. Someone is trying to screw you here. Certainly sounds like Allstate in #1 on the list.

    Maybe there are others here who can give you more and better advice than me. You definitely need some legal advice here.

    Keep us informed. Again, glad there were no tragedies here.

    fastdriver
  • 300michael300michael Posts: 1,815
    That sounds totally rediculous. I may be time to call an lawyer. What state are you in? It sounds like the M protected you all very good. The looking back was not one of the better things to do though. An adjuster should be able to go to the car, not the other way around.
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