Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Intrep-You did far more than most! Lots of people have been trying to run into me in the last few days, so it might not stay perfect for long!!
Just remember -- all brands have "bad apples" you're just one of them who was unfortunate enough to get one of them. Mercedes has a lower initial quality rating than Chrysler products (Volvo is even worse). Don't think this 300C is going to be any better quality just because it shares Mercedes parts.
Sugar
Join us tonight, 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for Town Hall Trivia Night and member-to-member chat – come test your knowledge and chat with fellow members!
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html
See you there!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
Hmmm...wonder what the Cd is on that "two box" shape.
I mourn the loss of that beautiful 300-N convertible. If I ever buy a Hemi, it will be in a pickup, not this brutish-looking thing. Another Teutonic insult to America.
Silver
http://www.eastohiocoolcars.com/Other/1968LincolnContinental.htm
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
Considering the list of cars the 300 is intended to go up against, there will few if any converts from the competition for this design. Chrysler simply has no history in the market segment.
DCX is not going to play up the MB component angle because they won't want to dilute the MB side of the business so most lookers won't even be aware of the MB parts under the skin.
That angle could even work against the car because people may (rightly or wrongly) assume MB parts = damn expensive to repair if it breaks.
My gut tells me nyet.
From a personal point of view, I am not yet impressed, but it may grow on me. However, I am looking at it as the successor to the 300M rather than an entirely new car, and from that viewpoint, it falls short. If I look at it from an objective viewpoint, the car has some design merits. Actually, it seems right in line with many of the other concept and new production cars being produced for 2004 and beyond.
However, I see a lot more "Daimler" than "Chrysler" in the 300C. The car almost seems to have a cold, German look to it, IMHO. What's missing is that edgy design difference that identified Chryslers throughout the years...
BTW, I think Chrysler will show us next the "Concorde" and the next "Intrepid", I wonder how they will look like, maybe the Concorde will look like the Airflite
If, indeed, the 300C was inspired by the Chronos, the result is definitely a cruel joke! Jay Leno offered $2,000,000 for the Chronos at the LA Car show earlier this year. I would guess that his offer would be substantially less for the 300C...
All-Speaking of the Aztek, it was a radical concept-type car too! Having MB parts in the DC products doesn't make me want one more. I test drove some entry level MB products before I bought the M. I liked the M and the way it handled better than the MB's, so I bought it. Don't forget that the reason DC and MB are combining parts is purely to save money. It's not necessarily better, but it sure as heck is cheaper! Buying in bulk saves money and gives the buyer bargaining power! I wrote a letter to DC expressing my disappointment yesterday and they already had a form letter in place to send out with details of the 300C and apologies that it didn't meet my satisfaction. I guess I wasn't the first one to let them know what I thought. I hope that they sell thousands and thousands of them for Otto and his co-workers sake (Great guys that build FANTASTIC cars!), but I think they would have done FAR better with the 300 Hemi C as opposed to the 300C the debuted.
http://www.chrysler.com/design/vehicle_design/gallery.html
Like Dustin said earler WHY the 300C ?????????? This is not 1957. Not only can they not design a vehicle but they do not even know the alphabet.
It looks like a baby Rolls Royce (new BMW version). Makes me kind of wish Chrysler would have been fased out like Plymouth at their peak instead of dying slowly makeing cars like this. My only hope is they come out with a 300 (who knows) coupe or convertable with a different design.
This one is up there with the Aztec.
http://www.chrysler.com/design/vehicle_design/gallery.html
One thought: When the "radical" LH cars first appeared in (I think) late '93, they may have been radical but they were also GOOD LOOKING! They still look good and the evolution in styling to our generation of LHs I believe speaks for itself. Of course, beauty is in the eye and I've only seen the pix of the next 300. It ain't beautiful. Unless it looks completely different up close and personl, Chrysler will be a one-hit wonder in my family. I may stay in the DCX family, though. That MB E is an elegant looker. But then again, where is my money?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I personally think that the 300C is stunning. Perhaps many on this board don't like it because it's unexpected, being such a radical change from the 300M. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the M. I think it's one of the finest looking cars ever made. And I'm sad that production will cease within a few months. But the fact remains that I like the 300C. Alot. My only criticism is that the interior is nearly identical to the Dodge Magnum concept. I hope this changes with the production version. If DCX intends to move the Chrysler brand upscale, it can't be sharing interiors with Dodge. Having said that, I truly believe the 300C will be a great success, surpassing the M both in sales and credibility among lower-luxury import buyers.
Otto, I envy you! How great it must be to have a hand in producing Chrysler's great rolling artwork. Every time I walk out into a parking lot and approach my 300M or Sebring, the car puts a smile on my face. You get to see the 300 and its equally beautiful LH platform mates up close each and everyday!
300michael, while you're certainly entitled to your opinion, I think the Aztec comparison is going a bit too far. Even if you don't much like the 300C, I don't see how one could find it as offensive as an Aztec. If anything, the 300C is more conservative and formal than the 300M, like a Bentley or Rolls, with a sort of understated elegance. Again, I think the problem is that we're all so enamored with our 300M's that nothing could possibly match its styling. Rather than try to improve upon styling perfection and let the M simply evolve, Chrysler wisely moved on with an all new, clean sheet design.
There is certainly a strong retro and a strong German influence in the 300C styling, neither of which is plus for a near luxury sports sedan. Early-Panzer doesn't provoke lasting appeal. I expect the Japanese are going to clean their clocks in this market segment. They can battle Lincoln for the leftovers.
DC lost me as a repeat customer when they went RWD. Hemi power is nice, but it doesn't do much good when your tires are spinning on an icy hill some snowy December morn. Note the snowy driveway comment on the Infinity G35 RWD in this local review during typical Denver spring weather <http://www.postnewsads.com/budwells/viewarticles.asp?articleID=102>
Since I keep new cars an average of 7 years or 90,000 miles, it will be awhile before our '99 300M will be replaced. I hope the auto stylists are back to attractive designs by then. If I had to replace the M tomorrow, I'd probably go for the Nissan Maxima, assuming they have corrected all the faults the pre-production review car had.
Our deep slate 300M is the third of 7 new cars I've owned that never failed to get adoring looks in a parking lot when spiffed up. My first beauty was a '67 Camero SS/RS (red). Later an '85 300ZX Turbo (black/aspen gold). I don't foresee anyone stopping to adore the 300C, just maybe to wonder why. My remaining life is too short to own/drive a dumpy looking car.
1) Some new concept cars, such as GM's G6 and Solstice (not at the NY show, BTW), are using prominent front grilles that are truly elegant, graceful, and to my eyes beautiful. The 300C's strikes me as overwhelming; maybe I'll get used to it.
2) Whereas the 300M is graceful and jaguar-esque in its form, the 300C is, well, not. I remember the first time I saw an 'M--it struck me as wonderfully beautiful; no deja vu with the 'C. And the retro cues don't strike my fancy. That said, I'm sure some will love them.
3) I hope they've done some marketing work to see if people will lay down some large cash for a Chrysler that is not a specialty vehicle (i.e. Viper and Prowler). The current M could be had for under 30K; I for one wouldn't pay 35K+ for a Chrysler because of their quality problems and run-of-the mill dealer network. Perhaps some of the quality issues are simply perception but nevertheless effect resale dramatically.
4) Acura's current TL-S, a competitor to the current M, puts out 260 HP, and gets 19/29 fuel economy. With the added weight of rear wheel drive and a V8, along with the non-aerodynamic form, fuel economy might be truck-like on the 300C. I hope they use some aluminum in the body to help keep the weight down, otherwise I wouldn't consider the vehicle based on fuel economy alone. But maybe they're not targetting folks like me, but people looking for a higher class of vehicle. If so, it sounds like a tall order for Chrysler; I wish them well.
Yes, the LH cars were radical and different as is the 300C, but the difference is the LH's were radical looking forward, whereas the LX is radical looking backwards.
The 300C has a somewhat crude, heavy handed and dated look to it. Put the Imperial name on this car and it would be OK, but not as the 300.
As someone observed here, the LH's had that future concept quality to them. Bob Lutz was no fool when he approved the LH - especially the 2nd generation. What Chrysler gave the public was the look of a Ferrari, or a Lamborghini in a family sedan. Cab forward was something of an application of the mid-engine sports car shape. Look at a Lamborghini Countach or Diablo in profile and you'll see what I mean.
That quality is what made these cars special.
Considering the class of vehicle the 300C is intended to go up against I'm very skeptical it will win any converts from those other cars. Those buyers are looking at the technical attributes of those cars. Things like aluminum DOHC engines, 5 and 6 speed gear boxes, and a level of sophistication. And those cars established reputations.
The 300C has a crude, heavy, in your face aura to it. It has an iron block push rod engine(used in their trucks), RWD and a bolt upright style. These are attributes that MB has abandon (save RWD) in their cars because it made them look dated against their European competition.
All cars are judged against their current competition in the time they're conceived by most potential customers.
Chrysler heritage is only signficant to a subset of current Chrysler owners, it will have little meaning to others. They won't look at the 300C from that historical context, they'll only look at it in comparison to the current competition in the same price class. Heritage will count for nothing to the vast majority.
BTW, just wait and then read what the media will have to say about the car, I think Chrysler has ANOTHER HIT with this one.
More LX to come, plus Stratus and Neon replacements!
Chrysler is still a leader in Design!
300 is supposed to be a sporty car. I see nothing sporty in that piece of brick.
As for media reaction it's been somewhat mixed thus far regarding the Magnum and Airflite. By no means overwhelmingly positive - certainly not the way it was with the LH. I haven't received the latest Autoweek yet but understand the 300C is written up in there. Yes, I do want to see what their reaction is but that won't change my mind.
If the Avenger concept is any indication of the Status replacement I'd have to pass on that too.
Both the Stratus and Neon cars are reported to be basically Mitsubishi's under the skin so they really won't be a Chrysler product any more than the Stratus and Sebring coupes are.
It appeared to be a dark dirty grey; it was pretty dirty, too, must have been driven thru rain. I didn't know the car was so small. It was parked next to a 2-door Pontiac Grand Am, and the Am looked a little bigger.
The car was in a relatively shadowy parking space, but I could tell the seats were 2-tone something (couldn't make out the coloration). There was a wide silvery ring surrounding the windshield (the rest of the car appeared dark grey) and it looked unattractive compared to the rest of the car... what is that ring for?
The gaps that appeared between the hood & the front grille... I admit my vision isn't the sharpest but it looked kind of "off" to me.
I'm glad I saw this dirty version of the Crossfire. It reminded me of what the car would look like years down the road w/o the car being meticulously waxed & the owner let it go after getting bored w/it. Only my opinion, the old 300Ms still look like works of art inside and out even today; after this one visit I quickly got bored w/the Crossfire... maybe a showroom version all spiffed up would look more exciting than this real live Crossfire off the lot.
Does Arizona manufacture cars, or are they testing it or something?
P.S. Is the airfoil on the back of the car supposed to be sticking straight up when the car is parked? Looks like an easy piece to get accidentally damaged if someone bumps into it, the way it's placed.
All-Someone mentioned that the C won't be out until 2004 and there was still a year to make changes. The C (Otto, correct me if I'm wrong) will be out in model year 2004, which is only 4 or so months away, not a full year. That makes a big difference. The main things I don't like about the C are the grille and hood pulled from the Ram pickup. The back end of the car is a bit dull for my tastes, but I could live with it. If they would change that grille and hood to ANYTHING else, I would probably like it better. I saw an overhead shot of the hood (can't remember where) and what the shots on Otto's website link don't show are the HEAVY bends/lines in the hood to accentuate the grille, exactly like the RAM.
ruski - I agree. On it's own, perhaps as an Imperial, the 300C would be more palatable. But it doesn't seem like the successor to the 300M.
dustin - I believe they go into production in late fall and will be on the market in February, 2004 -- as the 300N. I think the "C" designates "Concept" as there may yet be changes before production of the "N".
Chrysler is now in the correct direction, they just need good marketing, good sales, service practices from dealers, and TONS OF LUCK!
Chrysler is now in the correct direction, they just need good marketing, good sales, service practices from dealers, and TONS OF LUCK!
Care to post links with examples of where the "competition is speaking wonders about the car" or the media for that matter. I'm from Missouri - show me.
And I hardly call 55 comments out of 2084 views of the 300C thread signficant for a magazine with the circulation size of Autoweek.
I've read auto magazines long enough to read their tea leaves.
If they really like a car they will say so clearly and loudly.
If they are doubtful about a car they won't say so, they just won't say anything good - or bad -about it. Just lots of non-committal remarks, and verbal dancing around.
And on very rare occasions, if a car really really sucks to their line of thinking, they will come out and say so - whether it pisses the manufacturer off or not.
My vote offsets yours. I think Chrysler is heading down the road to ruin because of a poor understanding of the market they serve.
to me the design might appeal to "old money" types, if they can get over spending 40k large for a chrysler!! but, i'm 35 and can't imagine owning (or leasing) this car....it just looks like a car for more experienced (read as older) folks!
one can only hope that the forthcoming magnum sedan and charger, etc are more swoopy and futuristic vs backward. but i'm not holding my breath because it appears that most cars built off the LX platform will be bricky looking and also contain a high beltline with limited window square footage. too bad!
I read this weekend that the big industry push is to market cars to the front end baby boomers who have hit their peak income years. Maybe the 300C approach would work in a more urban environment than Colorado. My contemporaries are buying the Covettes they never could have while the kids were growing up or buying upscale SUVs. Several, like myself, bought 300Ms in their first couple of model years. I don't expect to see any 300Cs next year in our +400 car parking lot. I think D-C is riding a loser.