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2012 Acura TL

124

Comments

  • renssilsrenssils Posts: 24
    My 2012 TL with Tech and Advance Packages does have blind spot indicators, which are indeed useful.

    When I wrote about the inadequate, even dangerous, outward visibility, I meant that it's hard to see not only rearward and sideways, but also forward. When I turn left at an intersection, for example, I find that the wide, sloping right A-pillar blocks a lot of the two lanes to the right. I cannot always see oncoming traffic, which may be turning left into the intersection as I turn into it. I now routinely lean forward to see what the A-pillar may be blocking.

    By the way, I'm 5'8" and I do know how to adjust the side mirrors. I tried several settings.

    The Acura TL's compromised outward visibility is shared by other cars made by Toyota, GM, Ford, among others. For those manufacturers style trumped utility and safety.

    When I test drove the TL, I was bothered by its outward visibility for the driver and by its trunk, but I reckoned that those two features wouldn't be a big deal. By the way, yesterday I rode in the back seat of my TL and found that road noise is high and that ingress and egress are difficult due to the sharply sloping roofline.
  • Thankfully I share none of your gripes, the car is a pleasure to me and fits my family needs.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    As I said, I have identified areas that need improvement, but none of them so far have made me regret getting the TL.

    I will shop Acura again -- but I will also shop the other cars I mentioned. The TL is such a value, it is hard to understand why they aren't seen everywhere.

    DOH! That's 'cause they really are right on the cusp of being fugly and they do have too much Honda in them.

    I have overlooked these complaints because the car seems very well built, contented and in Advance trim is a very good performer.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    If you're willing to give up SH-AWD, it seems to me that an Accord EX-L V6 is an even better value than the TL, and arguably better looking. The Accord is also less exclusive , of course.

    I prefer the trimmer size of the previous generation TL more than the current one, and just today I happened to be talking to the owner of a '05 TL that feels the same way.
  • liz50liz50 Posts: 1
    2012 TL Tech 6 spd. auto. I have a hesitation when changing lanes or turning. Could be dangerous. Motor not responding to pedal pressure (for only a second or two.) Anyone share my pain?
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Anyone has any news on the upcoming 2013 TL?
    Type S?
    Refreshed styling?
    Hybrid?
    Just any news.
    My 2009 AWD TECH is still bullet proof with only 17K miles, my sales guy is persistent in getting me in the 2012 AWD TECH ADVANCE-I dont think there is any value in that trade, its still the 3.7 engine-maybe a supercharger would change my mind.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    New TL as a 2014 MY is what is being said "here in the cloud."

    That is what I would expect, but you never know -- I'm sure there will be SOMETHING that differentiates a 2013 from a 2012, but I would bet it won't be anything compelling.

    My hope is for the TL to be offered only w/SH-AWD to perhaps make a statement that Acura's serious about being in the Premium class.

    I would hope for an S type, too -- something beyond the Advance trim.

    Finally, I am most hopeful that Acura, in the next TL, will make the interior -- the dash area -- less Honda-like and more "special."

    If Chrysler can upgrade the 300's interior, I know Acura can do the same.

    If you look at the cars likely to be shopped against the TL, the TL just seems a bit overpriced from behind the wheel (visually.)

    If I had my druthers, I would like the reduced friction treatment that was applied to the 3.5 engine to be applied to the 3.7 and switch to an 8-speed transmission at the same time. Of course, fuel stratified injection would be a good way to improve the engine's efficiency without any loss of grunt.

    I have decided that my 2012 TL reminds me a whole bunch of my $54,000 Audi A6 (2005 MY). I don't say this to damn the TL, in fact I think the TL's ability to mime the previous generation Audi A6 (C6) is quite a feat.

    The ONLY issue (styling excluded from my rant) I have with the TL is that the front disc brakes are just fair. Mine have been warped -- or they feel that way -- since the day I bought it new. The answer has been to turn the rotors, which didn't really help much.

    I have asked for a new set of front rotors -- we'll see.

    Other than that, this TL is trouble free -- as predicted.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    mark...agree with you. The TL SH AWD is something I've owned (current gen). I now own a new S4. Lots of similarities, except the S4 is about $10K more than the TL SH AWD.

    So, what do you get for the extra $10K? Well, in the Audi, you get a healthy dose of smoothness and a premium "feel". You get a healthy does of performance upgrade.....a second less in both 0-60 MPH and in the 1/4 mile times. An upgrade in the suspension (feel and handling). A "next level up" in refinement. And, a step up in interior and exterior style as well as build quality.

    All that said, the TL SH AWD is an outstanding value at its price point. I'd choose it over an Infiniti Gx or a Mercedes C 4Matic.
  • billyperksiibillyperksii Posts: 198
    Mark I dont know if you saw my post (elsewhere), but I wondered over Audi Land to take a look at the A6 Premium Plus. First off, as I got in the dealership the salesman (nice guy) wanted to get me in a slightly used A7 Prestige- nice car but the price was still not reachable. To make a long story short, I tested the A6 and just could not justify the exrtra 15k over the TL TECH AWD. I love the Supercharger and the ameneties but there was absoulutely no value in trading up.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    First Audi - 1978 5000 w/Power Pack (which meant everything on the car was power operated) - had a 5cylinder engine and a stick shift. FWD.

    28 Audis later - Last Audi 2009 A4 2.0T Prestige Sport with every option except automatic cruise control.

    Shopped for new A5 P+ and new A4 Prestige, several other contenders including, most notably an Infiniti G37X and an '12 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD with a couple of must have accessories, parktronic and splash guards.

    Used carwoo.com to get quotes from four different makes and models.

    In September of 2011, got an offer of 13% below MSRP for a new Acura. I should note that I test drove, in one day, back to back to back an Audi S4 P+ (DSG), an all optioned Cadillac CTS/4 w/sport package and 19" wheels, etc and an Acura TL Advance SH-AWD.

    I thought the Acura and the Audi were of similar feel -- and with the UMBER leather, I thought the Acura had a fine interior (not up to the other two, but attractive.)

    The 13% off sticker offer was too good to pass up, ended up with a black leather interior, my least favorite of the Honda, er, Acura leather color pallet.

    The Acura is not hideous for 2012 -- there's the compliment. It drives great, performs well, is very efficient, has a better sound system than the B&O on my last Audi and feels bigger than an A4 even though the A4 has a longer wheelbase.

    Getting behind the wheel of the Advance version of the TL SH-AWD, I quickly forget about the looks of the car and focus on the power, the smoothness and the overall soundness (very tight) of the chassis.

    Why, dear lord, can't it just be purty(er)?!?

    Then I reflect upon my typical daily use of the vehicle. There's a song by James Taylor, "Damn, this Traffic Jam" -- well it took me an hour an 6 minutes to make the 19 mile trip from my office to my house the other day. You figure out how the 305HP helped, how the SH-AWD ever got even a little activated and how I was lucky to use more than 5 of the 6 gears of the auto transmission (I still wish it had 8 speeds, however.)

    At MSRP, this thing is north of $47K, the similarly equipped Audi A4 2.0T Prestige is north of $48K. The Cadillac was north of $51K. These cars -- all -- are overkill for bumper-to-bumper traffic or secondary roads limited to 45MPH and heavily patrolled.

    The Acura's secret weapons: SH-AWD and the sound system. I feel confident that our mild winters have met their match in the Acura, even in bone stock trim (and tires). I know if I ever need it, too, that the SH-AWD will damn near banish understeer and make my TL a "high value" S4 clone.

    I bet I would be really pissed if I had an S4 (having had an S6, which was my favorite car of ALL time) these days -- I mean, c'mon, most cars, even much less expensive cars are more than very competent to suffer -- in comfort -- their drivers and passengers to travel from home to work and back.

    I keep telling myself, I'll go for something "more" next time. Then, I get behind the wheel of my wife's 2011 FX35 (Infiniti) -- and that thing is comfortable, powerful, fun to drive and more luxurious than any Acura I know of. I then tell myself, I don't need an S4 or Bimmer or even a Volvo S60 T6 -- I need a CUV (like the Infiniti) -- if I'm going to move along at an average clip of 20-30MPH, I might as well be comfy (and know there's still plenty of capability if this damn traffic jam ever ends!)

    If you haven't test driven a TL Advance SH-AWD (not the FWD version, the AWD version), go for it -- you will be at least pleasantly surprised and possibly impressed.

    Now, if they'd just make the TL even less hideous looking, I think they'd have a winner! :surprise:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    First Audi - 1978 5000 w/Power Pack (which meant everything on the car was power operated) - had a 5cylinder engine and a stick shift. FWD.

    28 Audis later - Last Audi 2009 A4 2.0T Prestige Sport with every option except automatic cruise control.

    Shopped for new A5 P+ and new A4 Prestige, several other contenders including, most notably an Infiniti G37X and an '12 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD with a couple of must have accessories, parktronic and splash guards.

    Used carwoo.com to get quotes from four different makes and models.

    In September of 2011, got an offer of 13% below MSRP for a new Acura. I should note that I test drove, in one day, back to back to back an Audi S4 P+ (DSG), an all optioned Cadillac CTS/4 w/sport package and 19" wheels, etc and an Acura TL Advance SH-AWD.

    I thought the Acura and the Audi were of similar feel -- and with the UMBER leather, I thought the Acura had a fine interior (not up to the other two, but attractive.)

    The 13% off sticker offer was too good to pass up, ended up with a black leather interior, my least favorite of the Honda, er, Acura leather color pallet.

    The Acura is not hideous for 2012 -- there's the compliment. It drives great, performs well, is very efficient, has a better sound system than the B&O on my last Audi and feels bigger than an A4 even though the A4 has a longer wheelbase.

    Getting behind the wheel of the Advance version of the TL SH-AWD, I quickly forget about the looks of the car and focus on the power, the smoothness and the overall soundness (very tight) of the chassis.

    Why, dear lord, can't it just be purty(er)?!?

    Then I reflect upon my typical daily use of the vehicle. There's a song by James Taylor, "Damn, this Traffic Jam" -- well it took me an hour an 6 minutes to make the 19 mile trip from my office to my house the other day. You figure out how the 305HP helped, how the SH-AWD ever got even a little activated and how I was lucky to use more than 5 of the 6 gears of the auto transmission (I still wish it had 8 speeds, however.)

    At MSRP, this thing is north of $47K, the similarly equipped Audi A4 2.0T Prestige is north of $48K. The Cadillac was north of $51K. These cars -- all -- are overkill for bumper-to-bumper traffic or secondary roads limited to 45MPH and heavily patrolled.

    The Acura's secret weapons: SH-AWD and the sound system. I feel confident that our mild winters have met their match in the Acura, even in bone stock trim (and tires). I know if I ever need it, too, that the SH-AWD will damn near banish understeer and make my TL a "high value" S4 clone.

    I bet I would be really pissed if I had an S4 (having had an S6, which was my favorite car of ALL time) these days -- I mean, c'mon, most cars, even much less expensive cars are more than very competent to suffer -- in comfort -- their drivers and passengers to travel from home to work and back.

    I keep telling myself, I'll go for something "more" next time. Then, I get behind the wheel of my wife's 2011 FX35 (Infiniti) -- and that thing is comfortable, powerful, fun to drive and more luxurious than any Acura I know of. I then tell myself, I don't need an S4 or Bimmer or even a Volvo S60 T6 -- I need a CUV (like the Infiniti) -- if I'm going to move along at an average clip of 20-30MPH, I might as well be comfy (and know there's still plenty of capability if this damn traffic jam ever ends!)

    If you haven't test driven a TL Advance SH-AWD (not the FWD version, the AWD version), go for it -- you will be at least pleasantly surprised and possibly impressed.

    Now, if they'd just make the TL even less hideous looking, I think they'd have a winner! :surprise:
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    First Audi - 1978 5000 w/Power Pack (which meant everything on the car was power operated) - had a 5cylinder engine and a stick shift. FWD.

    28 Audis later - Last Audi 2009 A4 2.0T Prestige Sport with every option except automatic cruise control.

    Shopped for new A5 P+ and new A4 Prestige, several other contenders including, most notably an Infiniti G37X and an '12 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD with a couple of must have accessories, parktronic and splash guards.

    Used carwoo.com to get quotes from four different makes and models.

    In September of 2011, got an offer of 13% below MSRP for a new Acura. I should note that I test drove, in one day, back to back to back an Audi S4 P+ (DSG), an all optioned Cadillac CTS/4 w/sport package and 19" wheels, etc and an Acura TL Advance SH-AWD.

    I thought the Acura and the Audi were of similar feel -- and with the UMBER leather, I thought the Acura had a fine interior (not up to the other two, but attractive.)

    The 13% off sticker offer was too good to pass up, ended up with a black leather interior, my least favorite of the Honda, er, Acura leather color pallet.

    The Acura is not hideous for 2012 -- there's the compliment. It drives great, performs well, is very efficient, has a better sound system than the B&O on my last Audi and feels bigger than an A4 even though the A4 has a longer wheelbase.

    Getting behind the wheel of the Advance version of the TL SH-AWD, I quickly forget about the looks of the car and focus on the power, the smoothness and the overall soundness (very tight) of the chassis.

    Why, dear lord, can't it just be purty(er)?!?

    Then I reflect upon my typical daily use of the vehicle. There's a song by James Taylor, "Damn, this Traffic Jam" -- well it took me an hour an 6 minutes to make the 19 mile trip from my office to my house the other day. You figure out how the 305HP helped, how the SH-AWD ever got even a little activated and how I was lucky to use more than 5 of the 6 gears of the auto transmission (I still wish it had 8 speeds, however.)

    At MSRP, this thing is north of $47K, the similarly equipped Audi A4 2.0T Prestige is north of $48K. The Cadillac was north of $51K. These cars -- all -- are overkill for bumper-to-bumper traffic or secondary roads limited to 45MPH and heavily patrolled.

    The Acura's secret weapons: SH-AWD and the sound system. I feel confident that our mild winters have met their match in the Acura, even in bone stock trim (and tires). I know if I ever need it, too, that the SH-AWD will damn near banish understeer and make my TL a "high value" S4 clone.

    I bet I would be really pissed if I had an S4 (having had an S6, which was my favorite car of ALL time) these days -- I mean, c'mon, most cars, even much less expensive cars are more than very competent to suffer -- in comfort -- their drivers and passengers to travel from home to work and back.

    I keep telling myself, I'll go for something "more" next time. Then, I get behind the wheel of my wife's 2011 FX35 (Infiniti) -- and that thing is comfortable, powerful, fun to drive and more luxurious than any Acura I know of. I then tell myself, I don't need an S4 or Bimmer or even a Volvo S60 T6 -- I need a CUV (like the Infiniti) -- if I'm going to move along at an average clip of 20-30MPH, I might as well be comfy (and know there's still plenty of capability if this damn traffic jam ever ends!)

    If you haven't test driven a TL Advance SH-AWD (not the FWD version, the AWD version), go for it -- you will be at least pleasantly surprised and possibly impressed.

    Now, if they'd just make the TL even less hideous looking, I think they'd have a winner! :surprise:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Mark.....GF and I judt bought an S4. I considered the TL SH AWD (2010) to be close in some ways to it, far away in other areas (like styling, MMI, s-tronic, power).

    Still, to get what the S4 offers, you pay a price....about $6K over a TL SH AWD Tech-Advance!

    Is it worth it? To me and the GF, yes! To you, no! Then again, I love my BMW, too.

    I've tried to like the G (and M). It's quick. But, that's all I can say about it. After that it falls behind all these other cars.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    Other than the fact that Automobile magazine actually tested the two cars noted in the title, I cannot imagine anyone seriously considering an S4 would cross shop it with a TL. I would not have done it, save for the fact that I was keeping my powder dry in the "economy I just woke up to" which at least does a great job of pretending we're in recession.

    So, the TL was, oddly, actually cross shopped with an Audi A4 2.0T prestige sport. An S4, comparably equipped -- comparable to a TL SH-AWD Advance, is about $11,000 more than the TL.

    Now, "worth" and "value" are subjective, and I for one think the Audi is worth more but that the TL provides more value. Objectively, well $11,000 is cause for pause -- frankly, I would spend S4 money and get an A6 (and I believe for S4 Prestige money, I could get an A6 Prestige.)

    Were I doing the comparing, I would say the A6 is a better value than the S4, since I would value the increased size of the A6 -- the A6 is "worth" more (to me) than the S4 equipped with the Acura SH-AWD Advance features, which can be replicated, mostly, on an S4 (for the above mentioned $11,000.)

    Objectively, the S4 is the best performer -- it is provable, no opinion need apply. The A6 is probably the most comfortable (of the three - TL, S4 and A6) and the TL costs the least (pre discount, at least).

    If I could have leased either the A4, S4 or A6 equipped as close as possible the TL, for similar money, wow, well I might have strongly considered the S4, but probably would have gone with the A6. The Acura's worth, from my perspective, is fine at 13% off MSRP -- it is also a high value. Without the discount, though, I would probably have re-upped for a '12 A4 2.0T Prestige with the sport package, all other stand alone options, and, this time, without the $3,000 Audi Drive Select option.

    The A4 2.0T all decked out (and chipped) is "close enough" to an S4, that I would have re-enlisted with Audi. As it stands, I have a decent A6, C6 generation (internally designated) clone (perhaps as of the last year before the A6 got the supercharger.)

    Even though the TL be puny in the engine dept, when compared to an S4, I continue to lament not being able to "open it up" from time to time, due to traffic, pedestrians, deer and geese.

    Enjoy your S4 -- my guess is, it will become (over time) the car you remember most fondly. Like I said, my S6 remains my fave, the best car I ever had.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Mark...I totally understand your logic. Makes sense.

    I loved my TL while I had it. Got great trade value for it, too.

    I have a 335i. My SO was in the market. She was considering an A4. We drove an S4 and both loved it (me more than her). Never really considered an A6. As you say, it's bigger, which is something we really didn't need.

    Figured a TL Advance SH AWD would be about $46K.

    Couldn't swing a deal at either of the Cincinnati Audi dealers. Ended up in Chicago and saved $4K off the best deal at either of the Cincinnati dealers (with a trade involved).

    TL is a great car. Glad you enjoy yours.
  • No doubt this is fantasy, but I just got my new SH-AWD manual Tranny TL and it does drive great. Am selling a modified 2000 2.7T MT Audi A6 (same size and weight as the MT TL, with mods to take peformance at least equal but can't quite match the SH TL's handling even as lowered with Bilsteins). Anyway, I see the 91 octane is needed, rather than 93. Is there a flash software mod out there that would somewhat increase engine performance/efficiency with 93? Also, equally improbable, is there some way to increase the torque vectoring in the rear, say in a "Sport" mode via software?
    From an information standpoint, some Acura brochures tout their use of magnetorheological shock absorbers, but nowehere at the dealer or my brochure can I find anything on this (there is an allusion to a special shock valve system in the SH-AWD. Anyone know about that?
  • I had the dealer install these Ultra Hi-Perf All Seasons instead of the "Touring" class Michelins standard on the 18 inch TL SH-AWD. Tire Rack's recommendation. Awesome tire. Handles extremely well.

    So honest, you other Audi-philes out there (and I am one). Does a A4 with Stasis mods and manual tranny (which does not offer torque vectoring) even stay with the TL as a performance car? Putting aside the seating room.

    Yes, an S4 with the $4000 handling package/Torque vectoring system would out-handle the TL, and would be a smidge faster (1/2 sec 0-60), but try to find one. And then it is over $60k. I won't tell you what I paid for my TL, MT, Tech Package in an August deal environment, with rear sensors for parking added, but it was a LONG way from $60k. My other car is a 993 Porsche cab and I drive each one maybe 3k per year. Couldn't go for the S4, even if I could find one. Thought the A4 was too little and too slow.

    TL blew me away. It is like a fast, solid grand touring sport coupe with lots of legroom for two rear passengers. (Yes, I hate the trunk and middle rear seat...)
  • SO WHICH button do you hit while in XM listening mode?
    Thanks.
    Can you email me at chassoc@verizon.net with asnwer? Not sure I get replies on this forum yet. (Just bought my SH-AWD TL/Tech package, manual Tran to replace Audi A6 2.7T MT. If not, hopefully I get reply here.
    Charlie
  • If memory serves me right you only get 5 seconds of the song recorded which is under the Gracenote feature. I think you have to hold down the XM button- dont hold me to this, I discontinued my service after the 3 months of freebies expired and this was three years ago (I have the 2009 AWD TECH).
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Again, I love the TL SH AWD. But, saying it can remotely keep up with an S4 is silly. I've driven both. The S4 is substantially faster than the TL (2x-3x the 1/2 second delta you quoted). The S4 suspension and trans is a signficant step above, too.....as is the MMI and quality of materials.

    But, as you point out, you pay a premium for those upgrades, too.

    Ours was way under $60k.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,084
    edited September 2012
    Two unlikely to be cross-shopped cars were tested by Automobile magazine. They were "pretty much" contented at the same level for the test. Actually, based on a quick check, it seems the Audi was not as "contented" as the Acura. But, still the Audi was $10,000 more than the Acura and probably would have been perhaps $12K more if the Audi had been cranked up to match the features and options that come with the Acura at this price point.

    I am not sure the Audi is "substantially" more of anything, other than price, according to what you will see that follows.

    And, I don't know about keeping up with the S4 being silly -- check it out:

    Acura TL SH-AWD 18" wheels and tires:

    Price: $43,245/$44,245 (base/as tested)
    Engine: 24-valve SOHC V-6
    Displacement: 3.7 liters (224 cu in)
    Horsepower: 305 hp @ 6300 rpm
    Torque: 273 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm
    Transmission: 6-speed manual

    Acceleration
    0-60 mph: 5.4 sec
    0-100 mph: 13.5 sec
    0-110 mph: 16.3 sec
    0-120 mph: 20.5 sec
    0-130 mph: 24.9 sec
    0-140 mph: *
    0-150 mph: *
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 14.1 @ 102
    30-70 mph passing: 6.8 sec
    peak g: 0.66 g

    ==========

    Audi S4 w/18" wheels and tires, too:

    Price: $46,725/$54,075 (base/as tested)
    Engine: 24-valve DOHC supercharged V-6
    Displacement: 3.0 liters (183 cu in)
    Horsepower: 333 hp @ 5500 rpm
    Torque: 325 lb-ft @ 2900 rpm
    Transmission: 6-speed manual

    Acceleration
    0-60 mph: 5.0 sec
    0-100 mph: 11.5 sec
    0-110 mph: 13.5 sec
    0-120 mph: 16.4 sec
    0-130 mph: 19.7 sec
    0-140 mph: 23.4 sec
    0-150 mph: 28.6 sec
    1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 13.5 @ 110
    30-70 mph passing: 5.7 sec
    Peak g: 0.69 g

    "The Audi's extra thrust should have been a huge advantage at Pittsburgh's BeaveRun racetrack, which rewards straight-line speed with two long straightaways -- especially since, on paper, the Acura carries no advantage in cornering or braking: the two cars have similar weight, tire section width, and suspension designs. The Audi's slightly better weight distribution would, we thought, be nixed by the Acura's wider track. And we were right -- as expected, the cars posted similar braking and cornering numbers in standardized testing.

    But on a racetrack, the TL showed us exactly why Acura used the word "super" to describe its Super-Handling All-Wheel-Drive system. Despite its significant power advantage, the Audi S4's fastest lap beat the TL's by only 0.4 second."


    Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_acura_tl_sh_awd_vs_2010_au- - di_s4/viewall.html#ixzz27W19sjZI

    I'm just sayin' . . . :surprise:
  • Mark with all that said, why get the S6?
    Probably brand loyalty?
  • I'd get the S4 without any hesitation, compared to a TL SH-AWD advance, if the price was in the same universe as the TL. Despite what must appear to be blind, stupid, ignorant support for the Acura, I would take an Audi A4 2.0T over the TL, too, if the price would be even remotely competitive.

    Now, the S6 and the S8 are cars that I would describe as sublime -- virtually regardless of price. Virtually. I had a new S6 in 1995 and it remains my favorite car, despite the fact that I actually felt my 1997 A8 and 2005 A6 and 2009 A4 2.0T sport were "better." The S cars, not S-Line, mind you, are IMHO among the most desirable cars on the planet. I have never driven one of the newer generations of RS Audis, but I am confident they too are at the pinnacle of the automaker's art.

    However, I/we live in a world where (for example), home theater, European trips, fine dining, plays and "theater", regional US travel and our Shelties are very important. My wife collects high buck pens and we both collect watches and support charities and what we think are good causes. Our ages dictate that 401ks and other investments are also near the top of our minds.

    Hopefully you get the picture -- I did cross shop the Acura with a comparably priced (south of $50,000) Audi. The Acura, which was able to "remind" or perhaps fool me into thinking it was "sporty" and not a HUGE step down from the Audi in terms of creature comforts, seemed (in the time frame of the Great Recession) to be an optimal purchase. A few years back, I probably would have talked myself into about $200 per month more and for a longer term (36 mo vs 42 months lease).

    Yea, I know, TMI, but I assume many folks go through a similar thought process and some justify it by getting a 50" HDTV instead of a much larger HDTV or they eat at chain restaurants to save a few bucks or they don't fly business class to Munich, etc etc etc.

    I will shop Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Genesis, Infiniti, Volkswagen and Volvo, next time around (22 months or so.) I can only assume that there will be no S4 or S6 that is worth giving up the other "luxuries" we enjoy.

    Of course, we could always win the lottery -- but then again, that would mean we would have to start playing it.

    Drive it like you live. :shades:
  • Mark I like your assessment on a whole but I beg to differ.
    I have said this before that I almost traded my TL for either the S4 or the A6 Premium Plus- the A4 was not even on my long list- way underpowered to even be mentioned. I sat in the S4 and knew right away this would not suffice a family of four. The A6 would but value stopped me in putting my signature on the paper. I just could not justify giving up $20K more for what seems like- a little power, slightly better handling and a few other stuff that are irrelevant. Just MHO
  • You say tomato, I say tomaato. We're darn close to being in violent agreement!

    :surprise:

    Drive it like you live.
  • I'm very interested in buying an Acura TL AWD w/Tech. Are there advantages to waiting for 2013 vs. 2012, and/or just waiting for the Acura RLX sometime next year?

    I don't want to pull the trigger on 2012, only to be kicking myself because 2013 and/or the RLX is such a superior car (I know the RLX would be more expensive)
  • I would wait until 2013 to make your purchase. Not only will Acura release the new 2014 RLX in Q1 of next year, but the new 2014 TLX should be out before the summertime next year as well. And even if you don't like the RLX or the TLX, you should be able to get a great deal on a 2013 TL AWD Tech. I love my '09 TL SH-AWD Tech (Pearl White/Umber leather with the 19s) and plan to keep it for a while. Can't to see the new RLX in purpose though.... :)
  • The '13's can be had now (TL's). They are virtually unchanged from the '12's. If you are buying, the '12 will cost less, but your choices will be more limited -- but, you might be able to find a leftover TL SH-AWD Advance for an even steeper discount.

    If you are planning to lease, the '13's will probably be less per month and you can get one of them any way you want by ordering it.

    The rumor, of course, is that the replacement TL, thus far called the TLX, will be based off the new '13' Accord which uses more high strength steel (for an overall stiffer car, which improves, uh, "everything") and has a lot newer and better technology. Take the '13'Accord and "Acura-ize" it, and you will have an entirely new and improved '14' "TLX" (or whatever.)

    Acura will certainly want to get the new TL replacement to market as soon as possible to distance itself from the current TL "design statement" (er, some just call it ugly), but I wouldn't expect the '14's until at least Q2 or perhaps Q3 of 2013.

    In any case the current ('13) TL SH-AWD (I have a '12 TL SH-AWD Advance) is an exceptionally nice car (as long as you are inside of it and don't have to look at the exterior) and it drives great and performs great.

    You may get the best deal on the current gen rather than the upcoming '14. If you are looking for value, the '12 or '13 TL SH-AWD is very hard to beat. :shades:
  • After 18 months and 22,090 miles with my 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD with Tech and Advance options, I have some impressions of living with this sedan.

    Other than a failure of the air-conditioner last summer and a rattle in the sunroof, the car has been reliable. It took the dealer two tries to repair the air conditioner and one try to fix the sunroof. The car was in the shop for two days the second try.

    The car's performance is excellent. It's quick and smooth. The roadholding and handling are up to high standards, especially if the mediocre OEM tires are exchanged for very high performance summer tires, as I did. The engine and transmission are smooth. Heavily laden, car has achieved 31 mpg with the cruise control set to 70 mph in flat terrain. Driven as most enthusiasts would, the car gets 26-27 mpg on the highway and 20 mpg in suburban driving.

    The sound system is first class. The navigation system is good, but not great. Bugs that should have been fixed years ago persist, such as using voice control to get time without the engagement of the tutorial.

    The instrument controls are a victim of style over legibility. The binnacles surrounding the tach and speedometer are so large and obtrusive that at times, the driver focuses on the light gray rims of the binnacles rather than to the instruments themselves.

    The clock is a tiny, hidden in the display in the LCD panel above the many pushbuttons. Generally I find the layout and logic of the buttons useful and friendly.

    The front seats are very comfortable and supportive.

    The all wheel drive works well, but doesn't engage as quickly as the full-time all-wheel systems in my 2001 and 2004 Audi A6 cars or in my 2007 Subaru Outback H6 or in my former 2006 and 2007 Subaru Legacy spec.B sedans, which had manual transmissions. I can easily sense that brief moment of slippage until the Acura's SH-AWD sends power to the rear wheels.

    The TL's body has three major disadvantages. First, the driver's outward view is severely compromised by the wide, sharply slanted A-pillars, high belt line, and small windows. Second, access to the back seat is hard because of small doors and a sloping roof. Third, the undersized trunk has a high lift over, a small opening, contours that make it very difficult to accept large suitcases. For a 194-inch long car, a trunk of 12.5 cubic feet is too small. Furthermore the trunk lid has a pointed center which too often whacks foreheads.

    For the driver, the TL SH-AWD's roadholding and handling are satisfying, especially for a long, heavy sedan. The ride is generally pleasing, but compromised by excessive road noise.

    So, the 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD is a mixed bag. It scores well for performance and poorly for practicality.

    Having just finished a long trip of 2,400 miles in two weeks with my wife and lots of baggage, I have concluded, "never again in the TL," because it's a large car outside and a small car inside.

    My lease for the 2012 TL will expire next Spring. I will consider the forthcoming 2014 Acura TL, a variant of the 2014 Honda Accord, with a new hybrid AWD system. I will not consider any car with a trunk and outward view as bad as the 2012 TL's. Style doesn't trump utility.
  • m6userm6user Posts: 2,998
    Nice write up. Very helpful for people that are considering the TL and may not noitce a lot of the the things you mention during a test drive unless they are specifically looking for them.
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