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BMW X3 Lease Questions

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  • georgiagirl13georgiagirl13 Posts: 16
    edited January 2013
    Hi Car Man,

    Can you tell me if you think this is a good deal. The monthly payment still seems high to me. Also, is it normal for the Doc fee to be so high?

    2013 X3 28i/ 36 month lease/ 15k miles year/ 57%/ .00130 MF
    Premium Package, Technology Package, Cold Weather Package...

    MSRP: $46,745
    Sale Price: $43,780
    Doc fee: $599
    Acquisition fee: $725
    License fee: $21
    Gross Cap Cost: $44,505

    Customer Cash: $2,200.01
    Amt applied upfront: $1,343
    Total Cap Reduction: $856.93
    Net Cap Cost: $43,648.07

    Monthly payment: $563.70 plus $39.46 tax = $603.16

    Thanks,
    Georgiagirl13
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    That is the correct payment for those numbers. My lease calculator shows the same, to the cent.

    Dealerships will charge you fees in different ways so you have to watch out. For example, I was charged $80 doc fees + 385 licenese fee + misc. = TOTAL of $508.20, this excludes 9% tax on cap reduction, 1st month payment, and acquisition fee. It looks like they bundled up bunch of misc fees and called them license fees for you.

    I would ask them to disclose ALL of the fees to you (itemized) before you sign anything.

    How much are they asking for tire warranty on X3 i28, 3 years?
  • Thanks okcloo for checking the numbers. They haven't yet mentioned tire warranty and I was unaware that it was something I should discuss during negotiation. Please let me know the warranty specifics I should ask for? What did you pay?

    Thanks,
    Georgiagirl13
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    The tire warranty is serviced by a 3rd party company that has contracted with BMW, and may differ from dealer to dealer(?). The one I got is covered by "Safe-Guard Products International, LLC" and it covers tires and rims with no deductible. It's something they offer at the end of the deal, along with other insurances. I literally was on my phone, during negotiations, searching for prices other people paid. A quick google search showed that it varied from 900 to 1700 for 5 years. They quoted around $1700.00 for 3 years and I negotiated down to $1100.00 for 3 years. I'm sure others paid less, but each run flat tire run around $350 in my area and I get a nail or two every year so it's worth it for me. Supposedly you can't get these tires patched, or BMW will charge you if you return the car with a patched tire. I just wished I knew what other people were paying so I could have been in a better position to negotiate. At least I have 30 days to cancel if I find a better 3rd party insurance.
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    BTW, the deal I was able to negotiate was a sell price of $43,994.99. The MSRP was $47,545 (tech pkg, prem pkg, cold weather, aluminum roof rails), invoice was $44,340.00.
  • Ok, so it seems that I got a crazy low price according to all dealers and nobody can beat it. From what I heard, and I called about 4 different dealers is that I am getting the payment for a Basic X3 with Sunroof (thats it) and instead receiving and X3 with a lot more options. this is the offer:

    X3 28i with Sunroof, Roof rails, leatheratte, distance sensors, BMW assist, XM 1 year with 10k and 36 months, $0 down (only fees, tags and 1st month for $2k).

    MSRP 43095
    Sale 40190
    MF .00130
    Residual 61%
    Payment $499 + tax

    Thoughts?

    thanks!
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    Invoice on that car with those options is $39,690, TMV is $40,904. So you were quoted 500 over invoice and 714 under TMV, which is a fair deal. The first offers I got were 500 to 700 over invoice, but ultimately I got under invoice.

    To get a payment of $499 + tax with MF .0013 and 61% resid, your cap cost is $41,115, which means your total cost to lease the car is $2,925. $925 is probably the acquisition fee, the remaining $2000 goes towards 1st month, license fee, doc fee, and misc fees. That number seems pretty high to me, as I paid $2,140 in TOTAL fees, which includes acquisition, 1st month, license fee, doc fee, and misc fees.

    Bottom line is they quoted you a fair selling price on the car, but they are charging too much in fees, according to your numbers. Just my 2 cents.
  • Thanks okcloo, the total fees including 1st month are $2,057 so I am assuming just the fees are $1524 (deducting the 1st month + tax). I still need to receive the breakdown. I had the residual wrong, it is actually 59%.

    The invoice price I got from True Car is 40,290 (Sunroof, XM, BMW Assist, Distance park, roof rails and include the 895 destination charge).

    Any thoughts on purchasing the tire warranty? I have not received th official quote, but sales guy said about $1,000. Is it worth it?

    Thanks!
  • maxlevmaxlev Posts: 22
    Hey carman,

    I'm looking to lease an x3 xdrive28i w/metallic paint, leather, cold weather I and II, premium package, premium sound package, and technology package.

    Msrp is around $49k. Looking for 36month lease 12k per year.

    What is typical selling price, residual and money factor for this model in Boston this month?

    Anyone else feel free to weigh in with opinions. Also considering Acura RDX and VW Toureg.
  • Hi Georgiagirl13 . Using the numbers that you provided in your post (the money factor looks good BTW), I estimate that this car would have a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $598.11. That's pretty darn close to what you were quoted.

    The amount that's due at lease signing sounds slightly high though. Do you know what it includes? You're paying sales tax in your monthly payment so not that. I'm sure that it's the $600 monthly payment and BMW Financial Services' $725 acquisition fee. Those two things should total $1,325. So what's the other $875% Title, registration, etc...?

    Car_man
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  • Hi georgiagirl13. The doc fee does look a little high. Most dealers charge one, but many charge less than that.

    Car_man
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  • Hello maxlev. BMW Financial Services' January buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 X3 xDrive28i with 12,000 miles per year are .00130 and 59% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tier.

    I am not personally intimately familiar with what the market is like for the X3 right now. I do know that BMW had a huge December, sales-wise, and that some dealers are fairly light on inventory. That isn't helping selling prices any this month. If I was in the market for this vehicle, I personally would shoot for a selling price of say $1,000 over invoice and see what happens. You can find the exact invoice price of this model in the New Vehicle Pricing section of Edmunds.com.

    Car_man
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  • Hi Car Man,

    Thanks for your reply. I asked the dealer the very same question regarding exactly where the $2200 goes. He replied that it is broken down into the first month payment, dealer fee, tag and title and the rest goes towards the cap cost reduction. Does that sound ok?

    Georgiagirl 13
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    jc hills, no problem. The True Car invoice is probably correct, the Edmund's invoice price seems to leave out the MACO and training fees ($600).

    With 59% residual, those numbers look correct and fair. The only thing left to do is try to negotiate the acquisition fee down to $725 from $925, like some have done on this forum.. and try to negotiate the selling price of the car down to invoice or a few hundred under invoice. The savings from there can pay for 1/4 to 1/3 of your tire warranty should you get one!

    If you're ready to buy, the ball is in your court and they should have no problem selling to you at or little under invoice.

    See my post above regarding tire warranty. I paid $1100 for 3 years, which seems overpriced, but I'm worried about rim damage (due to poorly maintained streets in downtown LA) so would rather have peace of mind and get BMW's tire and rim warranty. If you only need tire warranty, Discount Tires quoted $395 to insure four 18" Pirelli P7 (V rating) Run Flats. Let me know how much you get your tire and rim warranty for. Thanks!
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    I guess it depends on where you live, but I had 3 dealers around the Los Angeles area offer invoice on the X3. Also, Edmunds.com is leaving out the MACO and training fees in their invoice price, so you should add around $600 to get the true invoice price.
  • Whean leasing a X3, what moneyfactor would be used when doing the single pay lease?
    Seems for the normal lease it is 0.00125 right now.
  • ken954ken954 Posts: 13
    edited January 2013
    Hi Car Man,

    Can you provide the latest residual and MF for a 2013 x3 35i for 36 months with 10K miles per year? I would qualify for the top credit tier, car will be titled in Florida but leased from a dealer in Illinois or Michigan.

    Appreciate your help!
  • ken954ken954 Posts: 13
    So I'm trying to finalize a deal after finally finding the vehicle I wanted with the right options, working to get the best possible price. I located a 2013 x3 35i optioned the way I'd want it, somewhat aggressively priced since it's a demo with 8000 miles. I need some advice on whether this offer from the dealer is really bad (I don't think it's great) and, if so, suggestions on how to best get the financials in line. Here's the deal:

    2013 x35i premium w/ sports appearance, tech, convenience, radio, and apps
    Demo vehicle, 8000 miles, in service 4/2012
    MSRP = $54,245
    Selling Price = $46,691
    Lease Term = 36 Months, 10,000 Miles / Year
    Money Factor = .00170 (I keep seeing .00125 - .00135 on here)
    Residual = 60% BUT salesman claims BMW will reduce the residual by $2,271 'because of miles on the vehicle'
    Payment = $651.25 (with zero capital reduction)

    Appreciate any suggestions - good deal / bad deal, best way to counteroffer? My math says that the payment should be more like $552 / month @ MF of .00125 and 60% residual, the $2,271 residual reduction is throwing me, not sure if that's reasonable.
  • okcloookcloo Posts: 11
    edited January 2013
    Ultimately, a good deal comes down to only 3 things, the selling price, money factor, and fees. The selling price you can negotiate; check the invoice on that car with those options and you should aim for invoice or lower. The MF is set by BMW finance, and it depends on your credit score, and with a score of 740 or higher, MF should be around .0013. Fees, they should be able to tell you upfront what the fees will be (check my previous posts for fees I paid). For your reference, I was quoted on a demo 2013 X5 diesel with around 12,000 miles for well below invoice. Just my 2 cents.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,243
    The residual reduction is $0.30/mi. for any miles over 500 (I think), so that looks right. Which should also give you a good idea of how big of a discount you should get compared to a new model. It should be more than that additional residual reduction.

    The maximum markup on the MF is .0004, so it looks like they are taking the max.. Most dealers that markup the money factor also bump the acq.fee the max as well ($925 vs $725)

    Best way to counteroffer? Tell them you won't pay a marked up MF, or no deal.. That alone will knock $32- $35 per month off..

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  • ltlladyltllady Posts: 27
    A tire warranty for $1,100? That seems like a lot of money for some insurance against potential, not factual, tire damage. As always such "warranties" are designed not to save the customer money but to provide profit for the dealer and warranty provider. Most consumer advocates seem to advise not to purchase such things.

    Experienceing "a nail every two years" seems very unusual. I don't think I have had more than three or four nails in thirty years. I have never destroyed a rim.

    In any case, on a three year lease that would mean one tire will be replaced. Certainly not worth $1,100 or more.

    The buyer would be better served to put the $1,100 in a savings account to cover any tire damage occuring during the lease. If no damage, the buyer, not the warranty company, will have the $1,100 at the end of the lease.
  • ltlladyltllady Posts: 27
    With the numbers you listed, the monthly lease payment computes to about $472 not $499. Adding an aquisition fee of about $900 to the sale price of $40,190 gets you to $499.
  • billy3554billy3554 Posts: 148
    I always find it interesting people are so willing to spend thousands of dollars for protection against the possibility of future events that, statistically, will not occur. Warranties, such as a warranty against future tire damage, are designed by people fully versed in statistics and set up in such a way to assure significant profit is made.

    Making the matter even worse, from a consumer prospective, is the profit is exagerated since both the warranty provider and dealer have their hands in the money pool pulling out profit. It is never a benefit to the consumer to become involved in a monetary exchange involving muliple levels of profit.

    Spending well over a thousand dollars for tire protection on a lease of three years does not appear prudent.
  • karhill1karhill1 Posts: 108
    I read Edmunds forums on a regular basis as they often contain valuable information along with some amusing comments. I do find it interesting that so many people seem to accept two items presented in a dealer's F&I office as necessary products/fees when they are really overpriced, useless, or false.

    One is warranties of any kind. Seems every year the F&I people come up with a new warranty to make money. Five years ago, I bought my daughter a new car. The F&I guy pitched the tire protection product for $500. To intice me to buy, he told me about his daughter who had the same vehicle had replaced the tire and rim twice in three years. I suggested his daughter was obviously not a very good driver. Well here we are five years later and my daughter has not damaged a single tire or rim and I, not the dealer, have the $500.

    Another is the dealer documentation fee. Dealers in some places, like Florida, charge hundreds of dollars for this "fee." Any cost of preparing documents for the sale of a vehicle is minor and is covered by the dealer's overhead which is included in the selling price. This is basic cost accounting.

    Most of the document preparation is done in the F&I office while the customer sits across the table from the dealer's best sales person. Of course the only reason the customer must sit with the F&I person is so the F&I person can have an opportunity to increase the dealer's profit on the back end of the deal.
  • sk_websk_web Posts: 5
    x3 28i - premium pkg, tech pkg, roof rails, comfort keyless entry, 36 month/10K year.

    3000 total drive off including 1st month payment, taxes etc.

    MSRP: 47,695
    Residual value: 27,992
    Lease factor: 0.00125

    lease payment: $499 + tax per month

    good deal?
  • ken954ken954 Posts: 13
    Thanks so much kyfdx - dealer isn't budging much so far, but that info gives me a bit more ammunition. I've been back and forth between new and demo, sport appearance and m-sport - and not a lot of inventory in my area. Appreciate your help.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,243
    Some (most?) BMW dealers will always mark-up the MF and won't budge.. If that is the case, you have to inject some real competition into the equation. And, be willing to go elsewhere..

    Your local dealer has to believe you'll go to another dealer, and even then, you might have to actually do it...

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  • flightnurseflightnurse 35K feetPosts: 1,642
    Ken, something else you need to know is, if you want a certain model and it is a high demand model dealers aren't willing to deal on them. Give you an example, 328ix aren't not in high demands in SoCal, one can get a good deal on them, however, if you want a X3 and live in Northeast in the middle of winter, you might have a hard time getting the deal you want on it. Just keep this in the back of your mind...
  • You're welcome georgiagirl13. There's nothing wrong with paying the first month payment, dealer fee, tag and title at lease signing, but you really should avoid making any sort of capitalized cost reduction on a lease.

    Car_man
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  • Hello ken954. BMW Financial Services' current buy rate lease money factor and residual value for a 36-month lease of a 2013 X3 35i with 10,000 miles pr year are .00130 and 60% for consumers who qualify for its top credit tiers.

    Car_man
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    Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Forum
This discussion has been closed.