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Chevrolet Volt Tax Credit Scandal

2

Comments

  • seaurchinseaurchin Posts: 57
    Steve, but the charge is not that they are selling it and telling the buyer that credit is still there. The charge is that they are abusing the taxpayer who gave the discount to buyers who want to be responsible in terms of energy consumption.

    No laws are broken, but trust between dealerships and buyers has fallen to a new low.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,985
    edited June 2011
    Got a link? The take-away I got was that John O'Dell couldn't find any situations that matched that scenario. Easy charge to make but not so easy to prove. Be real surprised if we read any "rejected Volt tax credits" after the next tax season.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Be real surprised if we read any "rejected Volt tax credits" after the next tax season.

    There were many on the hybrids. Anyone getting put in the AMT bracket was not allowed the tax credit. Same for the first time home buyer tax credit. So if the dealer takes the tax credit and then sells the car at a price less the credit. He has actually done the buyer a favor. I have hesitated to buy anything with a tax credit as about every other year we end up in that horrible AMT category. 29.3% of households in the $75k to $100k were subject to AMT last year. That is a lot of the people likely to buy a hybrid or EV.

    When considering the economics of buying a hybrid car, a shopper’s first best question has nothing to do with gas consumption, maintenance costs, or resale value. Surprisingly, the most important dollars-and-sense consideration is whether or not you pay the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The answer to that question will determine if you qualify for the federal hybrid tax credit—a few hundred dollars or a couple of thousand dollars, depending on the vehicle purchased and when you buy it.

    Unfortunately, many of the consumers most likely to buy a hybrid—prosperous but not ultra-wealthy families with kids and mortgages—are the most likely to pay the AMT. Therefore, a core group of hybrid shoppers will not receive the well-publicized tax credit. This loophole calls into question the federal government’s ability and commitment to encouraging consumers to conserve energy by purchasing a hybrid.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,985
    That's not the same as the claim that dealers were taxing the credit for themselves and selling nearly new Volts to unsuspecting consumers.

    Still no evidence of that eh?
  • benrey23benrey23 Posts: 41
    I am a Certified Volt Salesman at a dealership in Indiana. We wanted a Volt sooner than GM was allotting us one. So we found a dealer in NY that was willing to sell one to us. NOw the one we bought was not a dealer trade but is was purchased like such. Meaning the dealer in NY did not want anything in return. Ofcourse we did not purchase it at the regular invoice minus credits. Since it was a dealer to dealer new vehicle transaction it is still a New vehicle and we did not claim any credit. It is sad to hear some of this is going on. All it does is hurt GM. The Volt is a fine vehicle with exceptional technology that far surpasses its competetors. The Leaf is having problems in terms of what they said was the EV range, what the EPA says is the EV range and what the public is actually getting which is lower than the EPA.

    I would not be surprised if GM intervined and delayed some dealers alllocation that are practicing this credit game. As a saleman who is on the right of issues it is hard for me to support them since they were bailed out. I will say however the Volt was being designed well before the current administration. The Cruze is a great small compact car, the 2013 Malibu is sure to set fire, and the Volt is awesome technology. I hope GM does the right thing regarding this issue.
  • benrey23benrey23 Posts: 41
    I agree it seems that way. It is dirty. But the MSRP is what the manufacturer suggests. The dealer is free to suggest a adjusted market price based on demand and availablility.
  • Claire@EdmundsClaire@Edmunds Chicago areaPosts: 968
    A couple of people cast some serious doubt on the original blog entry here; seems like it may have been a little short on facts.

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f2315b9/10#MSG10

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f2315b9/20#MSG20

    Claire

    HOST

  • I sold a Volt in a state that to this day has not recieved one directly from GM. We have people wanting the Volt but cant sell them one. The one I sold was purchased through a dealer to dealer trade system but we had to agree to buy it at MSRP which we did. Now that it is gone and so many people waiting I can understand a dealer buying one and selling it pre owned. The dealer want be able to attain the credit and neither will the customer. However as long as you tell the customer that then there is no issue. Most of them could care less.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    But Chevy has almost 2100 dealers so 1/3 of them would have none in stock if each had one.
  • That's 2100 dealers across the Country tho, isn't it? Right now the Volt is only available in a handful of states.

    The excuse back in August was that 500 were sent to those dealers as demos. Now that the inventory has almost tripled, the Volt is looking more like the sales dud as it was originally projected... :shades:
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    edited September 2011
    Right now the Volt is only available in a handful of states.

    Actually now in most states - Chevy's goal was national distibution by the 4th quarter of this year.

    The excuse back in August was that 500 were sent to those dealers as demos. Now that the inventory has almost tripled, the Volt is looking more like the sales dud as it was originally projected

    So there weren't any to sell and that makes it a dud??

    According to this link:

    http://gm-volt.com/2011/08/03/after-a-necessarily-slow-july-volt-sales-poised-to- - -increase/

    Chevy built 4000 Volts for the 2011 model year with 3200 being sold and about 700 used as demos/test units. That sounds like almost a sellout. Volts spend about 13 days on the lot before selling. That's a dud??

    For the 2012 model year, they have the capacity to build 60K. The plant just came back on line at the beginning of August.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,159
    edited September 2011
    So there weren't any to sell and that makes it a dud??

    There were plenty of them to sell. I've watched the success/failure of the Volt since it first came out and the inventory had risen to 500 -600 or so units available until the July. I also don't believe the "demo units" story either because these units were listed for sale like any other vehicle would be. Nothing about them being demos or they shouldn't have been listed IMO.

    At the end of July, GM shut the plant down for "re-tooling", knocked a thousand bucks off the base price of the 2012 models and started off August with about 530 units (2011's). Here it is the first week of september and that inventory has tripled to over 1500 units (another 100 since just yesterday) while the forum shills and Government Motors keep saying the car is impossible to get because it's so wildly popular.

    B.S. :sick:

    And even with the same shills contaminating forums with "range anxiety" fear mongering, the Nissan Leaf continues to pull away from it in sales...

    Chevy built 4000 Volts for the 2011 model year with 3200 being sold and about 700 used as demos/test units. That sounds like almost a sellout

    The original plan was for 10k units in the first year...

    "we wanted to share this quote from Government Motor's Rob Peterson:

    The Volt production launch is on schedule to build and sell every one of our 10,000 units this year."


    So even if they moved 4000 of them through demos, fleets, government agencies, test mules, etc, I'd say that is way off mark which is why I called it a dud.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,837
    saw a Volt for first time in Nashua NH last weekend.
    I especially liked the logo and am hoping GM's next electric car is named Ampere or Nikola.
    I tried to consider Volt for recent purchase, but the gas-only version offered such a better value...
  • If it is so easy to buy one then why did I sell one to a guy in Michigan driving down to Indiana. We had to go out and buy from a dealer (not buy and sell as used but as a new car) because Indiana is not slated to get any till now.

    The demo unit is not a sham. In order to maintain allocation you have to have a Volt in demo service for 6 months. You are free to sell it prior to that and lose allocation for 6 months. That is why some dealers still list it as for sale. It may be there only one so they need it to draw in customers and line them up for an order or wait for the demo to come out of service.
  • Breaking the 2000 unit barrier...

    There are now more than twice as many Volts for sale than there are Honda CR-Z's, 4 times more than Honda Insights and only 350 units away from the supply of Honda Fits out there...
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    edited September 2011
    ...and your point is?

    The Insight and CR-Z aren't exactly setting sales records so Honda is smart to not have too many in stock. The Fit is a mid volume car in the midst of model year changeover.

    We get it - you don't like the Volt.
  • The point is that in the hybrid arena (where the Insight and CR-Z compete), even supposed "Slow sellers" aren't sitting on the lots like the Volt is...

    And yet the arrogance continues...

    Following the Volt’s prize-garnering lead, this month the Vauxhall Ampera was awarded “Green Car of the Year” by one of the UK’s leading automotive magazines.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,601
    edited September 2011
    Product sitting in inventory isn't a good measure. It's days in stock.

    Looking at number of product in stock only would show the Camry and Accord are poor sellers.

    Further, 1/3 of the country - including hybrid happy New England - just got the Volt. I say reserve judgement for at least a year in the full market before we start calling it a failure.
  • Looking at number of product in stock only would show the Camry and Accord are poor sellers.

    I don't follow... Where does the Accord and Camry come into the argument? They're not even competitors for the Volt. :confuse:

    And if they are poor sellers based on stock, then having twice as many Snuzes and nearly twice as many Rentabu's on the lots must be gawd awful? :confuse: Maybe Gubmint Motors needs to crank up the fleet sales higher than they are now...

    Regarding the Volt, it's looking quite clear that supply is easily outpacing the demand... And the fear mongering that was/is being spread to owners of Nissan Leaf models about "range anxiety" doesn't appear to be working either... :D
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