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Horrible rattle sound at start on 2011 Lacrosse CX

ar15ar15 Posts: 58
When I start my car (cold) i'm getting a horrible rattling sound from under the hood that last up to a couple of seconds. It sounds like a loud diesel engine firing up. This happens when the engine (4 cyl Ecotec) is cold, or after it has sat a little while.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Comments

  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Posts: 4,108
    ar15,
    I apologize for your concerns. Have you spoke with a GM dealer yet? If not I would definitely recommend doing so. They will be able to asses the rattle you are hearing.
    Christina
    GM Customer Service
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    After spending much time searching this issue on the internet, it is obvious that many owners of 2010/2011 GM cars with the 4 cylinder Ecotec, are having the exact same rattle noise as me. I am hoping to find the solution before I invest a lot of my valuable time with the dealership.
  • e_net_ridere_net_rider Posts: 1,380
    I'm trying to grasp the sound reference. When diesels are cold, they do make a clatter sometimes from the less than ideal ignition of the fuel. I think there were a few complaints of rattling coming from the converter on the front, left side, of engine. The innards were coming loose as I recall. You may try searching other forums of vehicles that use the Ecotec I-4 for similar complaint.
    Is it metal on metal sound or otherwise. Perhaps someone can start while you observe with hood open. Keep hands, clothing, etc. clear of underhood area.
    Hope your dealer gets you straight.
  • I also have this problem and my Lacrosse - it is just off the dealer's lot. Sounds to me like a vacumm problem of some type. Happens every few start ups. Have noticed a kind of whistle from what seems to be the AC under the hood also. Wonder if the two are related. Would love to know what this is.
  • gmcustsvcgmcustsvc Posts: 4,108
    mike33182,

    I would encourage you to have your vehicle looked at by your local GM dealership. Please keep me posted on any information.

    Thank you,
    Caron, GM Customer Service
  • Just curious, did anyone ever recieve a solid answer as to what is going on with this rattling sound at start up. Mine only does it every 10-15th start so I hate to take it in because they will just tell me that they were unable to duplicate the sound. Otherwise car runs great. Thanks for any help out there.
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    I still haven't taken mine in. Mine is a fleet vehicle and I'm just too busy to take it in. It runs very well, and I am pleased with the car otherwise.

    A quick google of this problem with the GM Ecotec 4 cylinder, will yield dozens of threads on other forums with others having the same issue. I just can't believe that a solution isn't known, so that we all don't have to spend countless hours having our cars investigated for a known issue.
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    This owner posted her rattle on youtube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeuWWJ7BjaU
  • I agree that a lot of people would think GM would be forthright about dealing with such issues. But instead it appears that they are looking at the bottom line of how much it would cost them. It also appears to be a long standing policy of doing business that way. Example, the steering column issue. It dates back to just after year 2000 approximately and involves several models. Some got their's replaced quickly, others had to wait or pay for themselves. And when then did get around to recall, it only sporadically covered models involved. The same was true of the example I used involving 95+ Olds Aurora with missing diodes that was causing electronic failures. It would have been unthinkable to me that the same problem and same fix would occur on 09 Malibu. I had checked my vehicle for those parts and they did not exist, yet mine was not included in the VINs being fixed.
    Although the many problems I've found are not all electronic, many of them are. There excuses of it 'being' because of newness of electronics just does not measure up.
    Most of these newly available technologies are not new. They have just reached the point of mass production pricing that suits customers or federally mandated.
    If it is a design issue of hardware, then they either poorly pieced together or reduced the spec requirements to an unreliably low level.
    If it is manufacturing, then they don't have the needed quality assurance in place.
    These newer electronic systems, if computer is involved, it is just hardware, firmware, & software like any other computer and should be at least as reliable as a PC, which these days has very few problems. Because the auto's system is specific, that is you don't frequently add or remove new programs, most problems should be curable.
    Personally, I start to wonder if it is a problem of supplying clean power to these systems at all times. Such was the issue with the missing diodes, spikes introduced on the power.
    I had asked my service manager about possible reliability of BMW or Mercedes which they also sell. He thought they were having way to many issues with this newer equipment as well. One of the owners thought a Cadillac would suit me because they are less effort to drive and have high reliability. Yesterday after finishing appointments for my back, I drove by dealer. I was amazed how many Lacrosses they had in the used area and stopped there. Shortly a sales lady came out. I told her what I wanted basically, a road car that rode very well. She ushered me to where they had a pair of DX (I think), full sized sedan with Northstar Aurora engines. She started rambling a bit about features when we climbed in and prepared for a test drive. She got stuck on OnStar, trying to sell a plan, and bragging about it's phone connection via satelite. (Obviously don't know crap) But I was in it long enough to determine the seats were too hard and poorly supportive. They are cooled and I read a review that stated cooled seats are often not very functional and not as comfortable. It seems that is likely true, although the Lincoln I sat in was far more comfortable and softer.
    I go to the showroom with curiosity about the new ones. They only had one Caddy automobile inside and it was a two door, sporty looking model with 3.6L. I was not interested in it, but talking to the sales manager, he suggested I sit in it to find out about seats. I think, possibly, that the seats in the Lacrosse are better or at least comparable. After settling into the small amount of padding, you felt the hardness of something. Again, cooled seats. I played with the lumbar. I can not believe it. An expensive vehicle like this only has one air bag in the seat. Although it still has the same stupid design for headrests, it at least did not push forward on shoulder areas, but was still lacking support for the mid-thoracic area. Not as badly as Lacrosse which can be blamed on upper bag being too low. (It is higher in Regal).
    Although out of my price range, according to ad, Lexus uses an automatic headrest which moves forward in an accident. I will check it out.
  • I agree that a lot of people would think GM would be forthright about dealing with such issues. But instead it appears that they are looking at the bottom line of how much it would cost them. It also appears to be a long standing policy of doing business that way. Example, the steering column issue. It dates back to just after year 2000 approximately and involves several models. Some got their's replaced quickly, others had to wait or pay for themselves. And when then did get around to recall, it only sporadically covered models involved. The same was true of the example I used involving 95+ Olds Aurora with missing diodes that was causing electronic failures. It would have been unthinkable to me that the same problem and same fix would occur on 09 Malibu. I had checked my vehicle for those parts and they did not exist, yet mine was not included in the VINs being fixed.
    Although the many problems I've found are not all electronic, many of them are. There excuses of it 'being' because of newness of electronics just does not measure up.
    Most of these newly available technologies are not new. They have just reached the point of mass production pricing that suits customers or federally mandated.
    If it is a design issue of hardware, then they either poorly pieced together or reduced the spec requirements to an unreliably low level.
    If it is manufacturing, then they don't have the needed quality assurance in place.
    These newer electronic systems, if computer is involved, it is just hardware, firmware, & software like any other computer and should be at least as reliable as a PC, which these days has very few problems. Because the auto's system is specific, that is you don't frequently add or remove new programs, most problems should be curable.
    Personally, I start to wonder if it is a problem of supplying clean power to these systems at all times. Such was the issue with the missing diodes, spikes introduced on the power.
    I had asked my service manager about possible reliability of BMW or Mercedes which they also sell. He thought they were having way to many issues with this newer equipment as well. One of the owners thought a Cadillac would suit me because they are less effort to drive and have high reliability. Yesterday after finishing appointments for my back, I drove by dealer. I was amazed how many Lacrosses they had in the used area and stopped there. Shortly a sales lady came out. I told her what I wanted basically, a road car that rode very well. She ushered me to where they had a pair of DX (I think), full sized sedan with Northstar Aurora engines. She started rambling a bit about features when we climbed in and prepared for a test drive. She got stuck on OnStar, trying to sell a plan, and bragging about it's phone connection via satelite. (Obviously don't know crap) But I was in it long enough to determine the seats were too hard and poorly supportive. They are cooled and I read a review that stated cooled seats are often not very functional and not as comfortable. It seems that is likely true, although the Lincoln I sat in was far more comfortable and softer.
    I go to the showroom with curiosity about the new ones. They only had one Caddy automobile inside and it was a two door, sporty looking model with 3.6L. I was not interested in it, but talking to the sales manager, he suggested I sit in it to find out about seats. I think, possibly, that the seats in the Lacrosse are better or at least comparable. After settling into the small amount of padding, you felt the hardness of something. Again, cooled seats. I played with the lumbar. I can not believe it. An expensive vehicle like this only has one air bag in the seat. Although it still has the same stupid design for headrests, it at least did not push forward on shoulder areas, but was still lacking support for the mid-thoracic area. Not as badly as Lacrosse which can be blamed on upper bag being too low. (It is higher in Regal).
    Although out of my price range, according to ad, Lexus uses an automatic headrest which moves forward in an accident. I will check it out.
  • I looked at both videos. The quality of the sound, lacking stereo, and any directionaly makes it hard to discern. There is obviously something that does not sound normal.
    In one of the videos, it sounded as if the AC pump kicked in after a couple of seconds and too did not sound right. Really hard to say they are two separate sounds or a combination. If the pump is making that sound, it sounds like it is on its way out. You definitely should not hear a rattling sound from the AC system. Is it possible that a bracket or such is loose?

    Does the sound seem to be internal? My next guess would be that the VVT system is involved. Possibly not getting enough oil flow/pressure to the valve train and timing mechanism upon start. Or the VVT system is being slow to settle into a smooth timing position.
    Does it only happen on cold start? What happens on a restart, cold or hot?
    Have you tried different fuels?
    As I said, hard to tell from video, but I wonder if it could be the exhaust resonating in the front part of the exhaust system. Unlike previous EGR systems, this one works by keeping the exhaust valves open extra long, into part of the intake stroke and sucking some of the expelled exhaust back into the engine. That is you are suddenly reversing the flow of the exhaust. Have you ever heard water pipes hammer when you rapidly close a faucet?
    Does it sound like the noise may be coming from the pre-converter located immediately off the exhaust manifold? The catalytic material inside may be vibrating until the heat expands everything to a tight fit. And if that is the situation, it probably will get worse with time, over the years.
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    Gm has a recall 1119A that looks like it addresses the problem. I have made an appointment to have mine looked at. Here's the recall details:
    Per GM:
    This bulletin has been revised to include parts, service procedure, and labor time for
    repairs to customer vehicles. Please discard all copies of bulletin 11195, issued June
    2011

    Recall 11195A applies to:
    2011 Buick LaCrosse, Regal
    2011 Chevrolet Equinox
    2011 GMC Terrain
    Equipped with a 2.4L Gas Engine (LAF)

    Other pertinent data from the Recall:
    Please read Line Item #5
    This simply notes the States whose Emission Laws require that an Emission Recall Correction Sticker must be afixed to the vehicle upon completion of the work. Please note that in addition to the sticker, in California a Certificate of completion is also required...as noted at the bottom of the Recall notice.

    Line Item #5 should NOT be construed as to limit the scope of correction to those states. That is why it is listed after the repair procedures.

    CONDITION
    General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Recall involving certain 2011
    Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L
    gas engine (LAF). On these vehicles, the camshaft position actuator solenoid may stick,
    resulting in the illumination of the malfunction indicator light, rough idle, poor driveability,
    and/or possible stalling at low throttle opening.

    CORRECTION
    Dealers are to reprogram the engine control module, and if necessary, replace the camshaft
    position actuator solenoid valves.
    VEHICLES INVOLVED
    Involved are certain 2011 model year Buick LaCrosse, Regal; Chevrolet Equinox; and GMC
    Terrain vehicles equipped with a 2.4L gas engine (LAF).
    Important: Dealers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the
    Required Field Actions section in the Global Warranty system. Not all vehicles
    may be involved.
    For dealers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete
    vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared
    and will be provided to US and Canadian dealers through the GM GlobalConnect Recall
    Page 2 August 2011 Bulletin No.: 11195A
    Reports, or sent directly to export dealers. Dealers will not have a report available if they
    have no involved vehicles currently assigned.
    The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle
    Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other
    than follow-up necessary to complete this recall is a violation of law in several
    states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the
    follow-up necessary to complete this recall.
    PART INFORMATION
    Parts required to complete this recall are to be obtained from General Motors Customer Care
    and Aftersales (GMCC&A). Please refer to your “involved vehicles listing” before ordering
    parts. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an
    emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.
    Part Number Description Quantity/Vehicle
    12628347 Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Int Sol 1 (If Req'd)
    12628348 Valve, Cm/Shf Posn Actr Exh Sol 1 (If Req'd)
    SERVICE PROCEDURE
    1. Determine the vehicle status.
    If the vehicle is still in dealer inventory, reprogram the ECM with the latest calibration.
    Refer to ECM Programming in this bulletin. Do NOT replace the camshaft position
    actuator solenoid valves.
    If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, reprogram the ECM and replace the
    camshaft position actuator solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls - Camshaft
    Position Actuator Solenoid Valve Replacement in SI.
    ECM Programming
    Do not attempt to order the calibration number from GM Customer Care and Aftersales. The
    calibration numbers required for this service procedure are programmed into control modules
    via a Multiple Diagnostic Interface (MDI) or Tech 2® diagnostic scan tool and TIS2WEB with
    the calibration update. Use TIS2WEB on or after 6/23/11 to obtain the calibration. If you
    cannot access the calibration, call the Techline Customer Support Center at 1-800-828-6860
    (English) or 1-800-503-3222 (French) and it will be provided. Make sure your Tech 2®
    diagnostic scan tool is updated with the latest software version or verify that the multiple
    diagnostic interface (MDI) that is being used is configured to the PC that will be used. Clear
    any codes and verify the condition has been corrected.
    For step-by-step programming instructions, please refer to SI and the Techline Information
    System (TIS) terminal.
    1. Verify that there is a battery charge of 12 to 15 volts. The battery must be able to
    maintain a charge during programming. Only use an approved Midtronics® PSC 550
    Battery Maintainer (SPS Programming Support Tool EL-49642) or equivalent to maintain
    proper battery voltage during programming.
    Page 3 August 2011 Bulletin No.: 11195A
    2. Reprogram the engine control module (ECM). Refer to SI and Service Programming
    System (SPS) documentation for programming instructions, if required.
    2.1 Connect the MDI to the vehicle. Connect the MDI to the programming terminal with
    a cable (USB or LAN).
    2.2 Select J2534 MDI and Reprogram ECU from the Select Diagnostic Tool and
    Programming Process screen.
    2.3 Select ECM Engine Control Module—Programming from the Supported Controllers
    screen.
    2.4 Follow the on-screen instructions.
    3. Clear all DTCs.
    4. If the vehicle has been delivered to the customer, replace the camshaft position actuator
    solenoid valves. Refer to Engine Controls - Camshaft Position Actuator Solenoid Valve
    Replacement in SI.
    5. CALIFORNIA, CONNECTICUT, MARYLAND, MASSACHUSETTS, MAINE, OREGON,
    VERMONT, & WASHINGTON vehicles only: Install a Recall Identification Label.
    RECALL IDENTIFICATION LABEL - California/Connecticut/Maryland/Massachusetts/Maine/
    Oregon/Vermont/Washington Vehicles Only
    Place a Recall Identification Label on each vehicle corrected in accordance with the
    instructions outlined in this Product Recall Bulletin. Each label provides a space to include
    the recall number and the five-digit dealer code of the dealer performing the recall service.
    This information may be inserted with a ballpoint pen.
    Put the Recall Identification Label on a clean and dry surface of the
    radiator core support in an area that will be visible to people servicing
    the vehicle.
    When installing the Recall Identification Label, be sure to pull the tab to
    allow adhesion of the clear protective covering. Additional Recall
    Identification Labels for US dealers can be obtained from Dealer Support
    Materials by ordering on the web from DWD Store,
    www.gmdealerworld.com, and then click on the DWD Store link.
    Request Item Number S-1015 when ordering.
    GM
    RECALL
    COMPLETED
    DEA LER CODE
    DO NOT REMOVE
    11195
    99-999
    COURTESY TRANSPORTATION – For US and C
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    I just had recall 11195A performed on my LaCross yesterday, and so far so good. I'll post back if the situation, with the rattling at start up, occurs again.
  • ar15ar15 Posts: 58
    My problem is fixed. It hasn't occurred again after almost a week of driving.
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