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BMW Driving Experience

steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,929
Talk about why you drive (or wish your drove) a BMW.

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Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

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Comments

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    I've never test-driven a BMW--don't like them, see them as an automotive phallic symbol--but I have ridden in exactly one..an early '90's 5-series whose engine self-destructed at 86K miles after religious oil changes since new.

    I have driven an '05 Benz, model that cost $95K new, and while very solid, I left like, "$95K for that?".
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    I have driven an '05 Benz, model that cost $95K new, and while very solid, I left like, "$95K for that?".

    EXACT same response to driving current GM's. I KNOW they are overpriced and then you need to wait for incentives after the models age...like your Malibu. Given the new UAW costs, this is likely to remain GM's pricing model.

    Not a bad strategy for a consumer but will definitely keep GM the Incentive King (FLEET QUEEN) as they always overprice their new models and add that MAP like they did with the GTO and G8. I'll wager my local Buick/GMC dealer does at least $3,000 for the Regal GS.

    The BMW is right across the road so the last time with the GTO I took one look at the MAP added to the sticker price and ran to the BMW for the 330Xi!!

    Drove it 45K miles and only one issue covered under warranty. I agree long term that the Germans tend to have more issues and cost more to repair, however. But the price is well worth it to some as you see BMW are leading at the moment in the Luxo segment.

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    What $95K GM did you drive?

    OK, admittedly a smart-a** question.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    edited September 2011
    What $95K GM did you drive?

    I test drove a $75k 2007 Escalade. It was nice enough. I also test drove a used 2006 Escalade with 11,000 miles at the same dealer. It was certified used in white Diamond. I could have bought it at $36k if my wife did not think it was ugly. Think about it, one year old with 11k miles and worth less than half the price of a new one. I don't blame that on the UAW completely. It tells me that GM is screwed up from top to bottom and should have been let die and given a proper burial. Not $52 billion in tax dollars.

    PS
    The top of the line Escalade is selling out the door in San Diego for about $90k today. How many UAW workers can afford $1800 per month vehicle payments? Which shoots down the argument that well paid autoworkers can buy what they build. Even a cheapo Denali will have payments over $1200 per month.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    edited September 2011
    Although I don't shop Cadillacs, I had never heard of an Escalade costing $75K. Also, I think no one is expecting every UAW worker to afford a car that much...the argument was that Mexican employees often couldn't afford the cheapest model of the company they work for. Big difference....as usual.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,142
    Although I don't shop Cadillacs, I had never heard of an Escalade costing $75K.

    I don't know what they go out the door for, but I just spec'ed out a 2012 Escalade ESV, with every option available (at this price point, 4wd, engine block heater, front license plate bracket, and extra-cost paint were the only options) and I got an MSRP of $87,130, and a TMV of $84,952.

    For comparison, it looks like the cheapest Suburban, a 2012 with just RWD, MSRP's for $42,865 and has a TMV of $41,806.

    I guess they can discount the Escalade pretty deeply, and still have a lot of profit built in.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,166
    the argument was that Mexican employees often couldn't afford the cheapest model of the company they work for. Big difference....as usual.

    Why is being able to buy what you build important? My step-dad did not own a new car for the first 10 years he and my mom were married. And he was a Union Carpenter. Then it was a 1961 Pontiac Tempest that was in the shop more than on the road.

    How many people building yachts can afford them. That is such a lame UAW argument, it is not really worth pursuing. If a UAW worker in 1960 could afford the cars they were building it proves my point they have always been over paid. IT IS MENIAL LABOR. Only worth what the market will bare. Not what the government can subsidize. Quite frankly my GM PU trucks built in Mexico were superior to the ones built here and in Canada.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    I guess I can step back a bit and look at it as just a little bit more than what I want at the moment. Not a criticism, just a declarative statement. There's room for all opinions here on the matter.

    I see companies going to Mexico to build as taking advantage of the people there, big-time. Remember that Mexicans are scrambling to come to this country. Canadians aren't (LOL). To me, it's every bit as bad as past abuses by the UAW.

    I care about more people working in this country, be it assembling cars or the many, many suppliers automakers use (and nobody utilizes American suppliers more than the Detroit automakers). I would've preferred an HHR to my Cobalt when I bought in '08, but the HHR being built in Mexico was the sole reason I didn't buy it. Why reward them for that, when it's a Cobalt underneath and that car is built 40 miles down the road with me with a very high N.A. parts content? And built by an American company?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    BTW, ever even test drive a BMW?

    I have and the ride was like sitting on a hard park bench going over a pot-holed cobblestone street filled with bomb craters. The Buick in no way will have the frequent costly maintenance and repairs and ultimate financial peril the BMW delivers.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,204
    edited September 2011
    I guess every worker at Rolls-Royce has their own Phantom! I'd like to be a laborer there!
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,442
    Nah, go work for Boeing - you could have your own 777! :D
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    The Buick in no way will have the frequent costly maintenance and repairs and ultimate financial peril the BMW delivers.

    You mean like my wife's 121,000 mile 2004 X3? Since the 50,000 mile mark the repair and maintenance costs(including 1 set of four tires) have amounted to $3998- a bit less than six cents per mile, or $83 per month. And note that $427 of that figure represents more frequent oil, ATF, and transfer case changes than BMW calls for. Non-scheduled maintenance required? One set of pads/rotors and a couple of serpentine belts.

    Or maybe you're talking about my 1995 318ti track rat- it has nearly 130k miles on it and outside of one set of brakes and several sets of track tires it has only needed a thermostat, a couple of idler pulleys/belts, a brake light switch, and a coolant fitting in the 15 years I've owned it. This year it has already spent six days at the track and will spend two to five more in the next couple of months. As a matter of fact, I took it on a 175 mile work assignment today. At 80 mph it averages 30-32 mpg.

    Deutschland Über Alles!!!

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,528
    >Deutschland Über Alles!!!

    Is my German too rusty? Is the "u" umlaut capitalized or not. It doesn't seem right to me. I find it both ways on quick search on the net.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    I'm not sure either...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,305
    I think echnically for grammar, I do not think it should be, but as a song title it likely often is, probably fine either way.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    Wow, you had more repairs and parts in that BMW than I had in my '97 Cavalier with 129.6K miles that I bought new. I know that's not the conventional wisdom though.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Wow, you had more repairs and parts in that BMW than I had in my '97 Cavalier with 129.6K miles that I bought new. I know that's not the conventional wisdom though.

    His BMW seems to have been driven hard and tracked often. How many of those 129,600 miles were on the track for the Cavalier? :P :D

    I've only spent a handful of days out on the track, and I've noticed which cars seem to break down most often, and it is not the Audi's and BMW's, which are the two most common cars to the events I've gone to.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,305
    Yeah, huge difference between any BMW and a Cav, from complexity to driving enjoyment. Guess what, my mother's Camry needs less repairs than a S65 AMG, can you believe it?
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    Wow, you had more repairs and parts in that BMW than I had in my '97 Cavalier with 129.6K miles that I bought new. I know that's not the conventional wisdom though.

    And to think that I could have been driving a Cavalier for the past 15 years; I'm devastated. That said, I'd like to see how your Cavalier is holding up these days. Here's the story on my Club Sport.

    And a recent action shot:

    image

    Disclaimer:
    NO UAW JOBS WERE CREATED BY THE PURCHASE OR USE OF THIS VEHICLE

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    Nice ride, RB! Although you have to admit it cost more to maintain the ULG's Cav. ;)

    The 2,750 lbs. is key to your performance as you stated. I could only imagine the blown version of the new 2.0 with 240/260 power will come close to your car in the 3'er except that the weight will probably still out-beef your car by more than 500 lbs. The extra power in a stripped version of a 128i w/sport pkg might be the closest thing, assuming the additional weight vs. that significant power boost could be mitigated. Might even come close in MPG as well!

    Take that, UAW!

    Regards,
    OW
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,142
    Wait...that's the hatchback style?! It's more attractive looking than what I remember them being. Maybe it's like a fine wine, and just has to age a bit to be appreciated?

    Speaking of vehicular abuse, I've toyed with the idea of putting my '79 New Yorker in the burnout contest they have at the Mopar show in Carlisle. If I blew one of the tires, I could always just throw on the spare (no SureGrip, so it won't spin them both), but with my luck, I'd fry the transmission or blow the engine. And, at the end of the day, that thing needs to get me back home!
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    I've thought of how nice that new engine would work in my ti, but properly installing it would be a nightmare... :(

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,854
    Maybe it's like a fine wine, and just has to age a bit to be appreciated?

    The Club Sports(and 1996-on Sports) got the M Technic(AKA M3) front bumper and side skirts. The Club Sport also wears M3 mirrors.

    Speaking of vehicular abuse, I've toyed with the idea of putting my '79 New Yorker in the burnout contest they have at the Mopar show in Carlisle. If I blew one of the tires, I could always just throw on the spare (no SureGrip, so it won't spin them both), but with my luck, I'd fry the transmission or blow the engine. And, at the end of the day, that thing needs to get me back home!

    One of my friends competed in One Lap a few years ago. He said that an SRT-10 Ram pickup blew a tire in an impromptu burnout contest. Pretty spectacular, but I know that replacing it wasn't cheap...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    BMW is trying to catch back up to you. No more tears! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    edited September 2011
    Obviously the "driving enjoyment" quotient is way-different, but I never really wanted my daily car to be a 'hey look at me' status-symbol thing (obviously). I use my old '66 Stude for that...and even in old cars I'm not into status symbols!

    Here we are, back at the old 'domestic stuff falls apart' saw, yet when anyone mentions how certain foreign makes aren't known for reliability, the discussion shifts from quality meaning 'driving excitement' totally instead of reliability. For the price, shouldn't one get both?

    I have rented many makes of cars. Worst car I had this year so far? Camry with 15K miles. Obviously needed control arm bushings, and the Traction Control light never went out. My coworker thought it was a POS too. But again, the perception is that they're wonderful. I'm always awaiting an epiphany when I drive a media darling like a Camry. I'm usually disappointed.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,400
    edited September 2011
    You tend to just like transportation in the basic sense. Once you decide to really enjoy driving, try one of the less-dependable Germans...for more than a test drive.

    I agree the maintenance/repair costs are higher but if you are a driving enthusiast, there are few US models that can even come close.

    Regards,
    OW
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,305
    edited September 2011
    I don't know about that, I think the 3er hatch sold more to enthusiasts than posers - driving the odd hatchback in hatchback-hating USA doesn't sound too status conscious to me. Certainly someone like roadburner isn't in it for status, but for driving. They also weren't extremely expensive when new.

    Insanely few cars offer absolute driving pleasure and an combination of extreme build/materials quality and high reliability. I don't know if anyone is saying the domestic simply falls apart, but even if it needs less maintenance, the overall package often doesn't feel so nice, certainly was the case during the era of that Cavalier.

    Rental cars are a tough call, who knows how they have been abused. I remember a Malibu rental in 2003 that was awful, many systems didn't function at all and the temp light was on all the time, an obvious defect. But I wouldn't judge the car on that. Had a Kia about 4 years ago that was an Enterprise car and was pretty trashed - but I didn't hold it against the car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    edited September 2011
    Rental cars are a tough call, who knows how they have been abused. I remember a Malibu rental in 2003 that was awful, many systems didn't function at all and the temp light was on all the time, an obvious defect. But I wouldn't judge the car on that. Had a Kia about 4 years ago that was an Enterprise car and was pretty trashed - but I didn't hold it against the car.

    Certainly true, but it was distinctly worse than every car I had the several weeks immediately preceding, and immediately afterwards. I also don't know what kind of 'spirited driving' would make the traction control light stay on, nor wear out the control arm bushings in 15K miles.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,533
    Is the track any worse that 5.5 years on the pothole-ravaged roads of the northern midwest, in all kinds of weather? Just askin'.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I agree the maintenance/repair costs are higher but if you are a driving enthusiast, there are few US models that can even come close.

    While I agree my German car has been more expensive to maintain, I'd argue it is far cheaper to keep running and REPAIRED than a domestic vehicle. At least in my anecdotal experience with a sample size of one each (well, two for the Germans if you count my parents '87 Jetta GLI when I was a kid).

    You can take the '87 Jetta and '06 A3 and combine the repair/maintenance costs and they still won't equal the '95 Neon.

    2006 A3 = 82,500 miles
    87' Jetta kept to just over 101,000 miles before being traded in.
    Neon = 65,000 miles at 4th towing and final straw.

    I, however, don't include maintenance costs into my "costs" normally as all cars have them. But yes, driving a German car the way it is meant to be driven will require replacing tires on a regular basis $$$$$$. Driving a Toyota like it's a Buick might get you 80,000 miles on the same tires!
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