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BMW Driving Experience

2

Comments

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I imagine driving in sub zero temperatures might be hard on a car (at least at start-up).

    However, all States have their share of potholes as the gov't would rather waste money on radar dectector dectectors in Virginia than on fixing our roads.

    I think Track use is unique and definitely requires a well built and engineered automobile. If one drives for short 20 to 30 minute intervals a few times for a few days on a couple of occassions each year at the track, I'd imagine it is not particularly hard on a "high quality" car. But a low quality car might have issues day 1 lap 1 on the track.

    Some have argued my domestic car was a lemon because I've flogged it as a teenager. I've countered that a properly engineered car has no issues being driven any which way it can be (such as on a Track; my A3, or as a teenager, my friends Corolla/Prism.) He flogged his Prism 500% more than my Neon, and my A3 is used probably 150% more spiritedly than the Neon (even though I'm older now), yet we all know which 2 could handle being driven by a real driver.

    His Prism was flawless to 100,000 miles despite full throttle acceleration being the normal course of business for it.

    If a car can't be driven any which way it lets you without falling apart, then the engineers at Chrysler should have set the rev limiter at 3K, the top speed at 55 MPH, and the price tag at $999.99.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,190
    I bet a nice curb smack could mess up those suspension bits. For the traction control, probable defect...Camrys aint what they used to be ;)

    Traction control light on my MB comes on a bit...but that's because of how it is driven :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    Yeah, huge difference between any BMW and a Cav, from complexity to driving enjoyment.

    Until this conversation came up, I've never heard the words Cavalier and BMW in the same sentence before. The spare tire in a BMW probably utilized more engineering resources than a whole Cavalier;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,397
    Until this conversation came up, I've never heard the words Cavalier and BMW in the same sentence before. The spare tire in a BMW probably utilized more engineering resources than a whole Cavalier;)

    ROTFLMAO!! ULG compares his stellar repair costs to the 318ti Club Sport which RB modified for track days. How long do you think a Cavalier would last flogging 5 times per year on a road coarse at 10/10ths of it's capability???? The mod for the Cav would be a tow truck to bring it to the shredding center!!

    Not too long and the cost would lend itself to disposal after only 1 year, I would guess. Of course, you could mod the Cav but the mod would be a tow truck to bring it to the shredding center!!

    Hardly an apples/apples comparison we all know ULG stands behind. Let's call a spade a spade and an appliance an appliance.

    Everything is relative and there are basic efficient transportation and even then, those that costs more to repair in the same class. Corolla vs. Cavalier, for instance.

    Value for the Money
    Compared with its most natural rival, the sportier-natured Dodge/Plymouth Neon, the refined Cavalier puts comfort and utility ahead of performance and style. All told, however, it doesn't match the refinement of the Toyota Corolla. For a reasonable sum, however, you get a car with dual airbags and antilock braking, even if it isn't quite as much fun to drive as a Neon.


    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    RB, very nice car. The first BMW I ever got behind the wheel of was a 1990 318i which a older friend of mine bought new a year or so out of college. Wow, that car blew me a away. Having mainly driven domestics I'd never experienced a car that performed so effortlessly. It's something that's hard to describe, but the feel of the car was like nothing that I was accustom to. I think the only word that came out of my mouth after driving it was "wow".

    No it wasn't particularly fast, but it was the way it went about its business that thoroughly impressed me. It was extremely solid and everything about the powertrain was precise and smooth. It felt like you couldn't drive it hard enough to break it.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,781
    RB, very nice car. The first BMW I ever got behind the wheel of was a 1990 318i which a older friend of mine bought new a year or so out of college. Wow, that car blew me a away. Having mainly driven domestics I'd never experienced a car that performed so effortlessly. It's something that's hard to describe, but the feel of the car was like nothing that I was accustom to. I think the only word that came out of my mouth after driving it was "wow".

    Thanks for the kind words. The 318i you drove is a bit of a cult car among hard-core BMW enthusiasts. The M42 four cylinder is a very durable unit that will often go 250,000 miles before a rebuild.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Again, gotta say, the one BMW I was familiar with (5-series) needed a new engine at 86K miles. Now when someone says their (fill in the blank domestic) needed an engine at 86K miles, there are ten posts of derision afterwards. This earlier post resulted in no comments whatsoever about the engine. Why the disparity? Is it all about driving enjoyment on a European car? There's the lack of applies-to-apples here.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited September 2011
    Again, gotta say, the one BMW I was familiar with (5-series) needed a new engine at 86K miles. Now when someone says their (fill in the blank domestic) needed an engine at 86K miles, there are ten posts of derision afterwards.

    Yeah, most domestics with 86k aren't worth the expense of replacing an engine.

    If your going to compare a bmw or MB with domestics, it really needs to be limited to Lincoln and Cadillac. Comparing cheap Chevys and Fords to expensive BMWs and MBs is ridiculous. I don't think many of us would compare a Malibu or Cruze to a CTS.

    I don't know how good or bad BMW's are regarding reliability. The few people I know that have them like them. I've always really liked driving them, but have never bought one. Maybe someday.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,642
    Hot topic and not sure if there's a great place for you guys to post, unless y'all are used to posting over in Luxury Sedans.

    Maybe we need a BMW Driving Experience discussion (or maybe Bimmer vs the World?).

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,095
    I think it is kind of relative to talk about BMW or any other vehicle that is built in the USA. I got to debating some of Rocky's friends on Facebook. They are anti anything but UAW built. They would rather have US buy a car with 40% US content assembled by UAW factory, than a Toyota, Honda or BMW with much higher US content. It is that mentality that makes me want to steer clear of anything UAW built. They have in their minds that UAW members are more deserving of a job, than say a VW worker in TN. They have the misguided thinking that in this global society, all the money GM makes stays within our borders. After several days of beating my head against the wall I opted out. It was 4-5 totally Rah Rah UAW supporters against superior logic. Of course when I pointed out the Secretary of Labor had just bought an Equinox built in Canada they all went into overload.

    Obama Labor Boss Buys Canadian-Built Car

    http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/08/31/obama-labor-b- oss-buys-canadian-built-car

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qek5O9TaDhM

    I personally feel my 85% US content Sequoia built in Princeton Indiana is helping more US workers than buying an Equinox built in Canada.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    They have in their minds that UAW members are more deserving of a job, than say a VW worker in TN.

    yeah, I have issues with that line of thought too.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    In 2009, a Sequoia was 80% N.A. content. You say 85%. Did it go up since then, or is that 'whoops'?

    I prefer when most all American cars were built here, but competition has changed that, sadly (IMO). Your Sequoia IMO is definitely better than having been built in Japan, but Toyota is still clearly a Japanese company, as evidenced by Toyota of America's president's 'deer in the headlights' look when asked about recall policies...he completely deferred to Mr. Toyoda and said decisions came from the motherland.

    This board is so full of absolutes. Not all Toyotas are made here, and not all Detroit brands are made in Mexico or Canada. My preference is an American company which builds in America using a high NA parts content. It is possible to find such a product.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,781
    Again, gotta say, the one BMW I was familiar with (5-series) needed a new engine at 86K miles.

    OK, that's one data point. One BMW, one engine. I've owned nine and never had an engine failure.

    Now when someone says their (fill in the blank domestic) needed an engine at 86K miles, there are ten posts of derision afterwards.

    Not from me. That said, if you are talking about a number of failures -all with the same engine and failure mode- that's a different issue entirely.

    Is it all about driving enjoyment on a European car?

    That's why I've driven BMWs almost exclusively since 1983- but if they were unreliable or expensive to run I would look elsewhere. Life is too short to drive boring cars.

    There's the lack of applies-to-apples here.

    You mean like when a FWD mass-market economy car is compared to a BMW? With a straight face?

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    That's one out of one I knew about...100%--same as guys here say their one (fill-in-the-blank) was crappy.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,095
    In 2009, a Sequoia was 80% N.A. content.

    Mine is a 2007 which it was my understanding contained 85%. Which can be deceptive as they include Canada, because it is also America, along with Mexico. So your guess is as good as mine as to the actual US content.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,190
    Aren't we supposed to forgive the old failures of carmakers? That was an instance of like what, a 20 year old car?

    Engine failing at 86K can easily be an owner issue over a car issue.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Religious oil changes at the dealer...the owners are friends of mine.

    I guess the thing that is so exhausting for me on this forum is (and I know, if it's so exhausting, why continue to post? Good point.) is that all kinds of excuses are made for foreign lapses of quality, yet with the domestics it's always like "Aha! Told ya so!".

    I think I'll hang around the old car forums a bit more.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,190
    Bought new, all records from birth? We are sure the dealer replaced the oil pain drain plug or the owner didn't put coolant in the oil filler? :shades:

    At 86K there is likely an extenuating circumstance no matter the origin of the engine, unless it is a known defect like Honda transmissions or GM Dexcool or Ford head gaskets etc. I am not aware of any BMW of that era having a rep for a high rate of failure at that mileage.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Yep, bought new at Dave Walter BMW in Akron, OH.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I don't think many of us would compare a Malibu or Cruze to a CTS.

    The wife and I both think our metallic black Malibu is as handsome as a CTS...gets repeated just about every time we pass one.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,397
    Most of my cars up until 2008 were UAW built. They had their chance with me.

    The World is much larger than sorry GM and Chrysler....with all of their UAW disease.

    Can't bring back 1969 with all the Camaros in the world....change hurts.

    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I am not aware of any BMW of that era having a rep for a high rate of failure at that mileage.

    BMW did have issues with the M3 3.2 I6 around 02-03 IIRC. I don't remember how wide spread, but low mileage catastrophic engine failures were reported and I believe BMW extended the warrantys on those engines.

    from wikipedia

    Despite its great success and critical acclaim, the S54 was plagued with rod bearing failures in early production. BMW attempted to blame vehicle owners for the failures early on but eventually started replacing rod bearings, oil pumps, and whole engines under warranty. This fault was attributed to a problem with the connecting rod bottom-end bearing shells that were supplied to BMW by a third party that did not meet BMW's specifications. This problem was fully corrected by BMW on engines produced after 06/2003. A recall was issued to retrofit all M3 cars with affected engines to swap to the proper bearing shells.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited September 2011
    The wife and I both think our metallic black Malibu is as handsome as a CTS...gets repeated just about every time we pass one.

    Seriously, if you were prepared to spend $50k on a CTS you'd likely end up buying a $25k Malibu? If everyone thought that way Cadillac wouldn't exist.

    There are several sub $30k cars I find good looking, but that certainly doesn't mean I'd rather them over a CTS or 3 series.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Can't bring back 1969 with all the Camaros in the world....change hurts.

    It sure does. That's why I think cars are so freaking boring today. And I'm not even a fan of '69 Camaros.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,781
    edited September 2011
    BMW did have issues with the M3 3.2 I6 around 02-03 IIRC. I don't remember how wide spread, but low mileage catastrophic engine failures were reported and I believe BMW extended the warrantys on those engines.

    Right. Although there are still some techs and mechanics who believe that the redline of the S54 was initially set excessively high and that exacerbated the problem.

    There's only one other chronic BMW engine problem that I know of. Back in the 90's BMW decided to use Nikasil engine blocks in their M60B30 and M60B40 V8 engines. The high sulfur content of US(as well as UK and Brazilian) gasoline caused erosion of the upper cylinder walls. To BMW's credit it replaced the affected engines with new engines using Alusil blocks and extended the engine warranty to six years/100,000 miles.

    As for owner abuse, I've told this story before: Back when Erik Wensberg was BMW NA's M Brand manager he told me about a guy who had his new E36 M3 towed to his dealer- with a seriously blown engine. The guy claimed his new Bimmer "just died" while he was cruising down the interstate(his prior car was an Oldsmobile, BTW). It turns out that the E36 M3's ECU records the highest rpm reached by the engine. When they interrogated the ECU it showed 9000 rpm(!). Guess whose warranty claim was denied?

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    There's only one other chronic BMW engine problem that I know of. Back in the 90's BMW decided to use Nikasil engine blocks in their M60B30 and M60B40 V8 engines.

    Our friends lived in the same town we did when they had the BMW--which would be mid'90's. Theirs was a 5-series V8, I do know that. The numbers prefacing "V8" above don't mean anything to me.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,190
    Yes, but this was a 90s car.

    If it was a nikasil car with extended warranty, sounds like the dealer should have handled it better then. Oh well.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,642
    Lots of these posts were moved over from the UAW discussion (the BMW is union made, after all - at least the ones manufactured in Germany).

    Carry on. :)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I was lucky enough to drive a late 80's and early 90's 3 series BMW's. They were a friends dad's car. By the time my friend got to drive them, each was old, especially the 80's one.

    I have to say, neither impressed me at all.

    They were probably the lowest basest model available. Underpowered, underwhelming. The handling didn't jump out at me, but then again, I didn't drive them the way I would now to take advantage and really test the handling. I just remember the underpowered nature bothered me as a teenage driver. The interior's were nice though. I might have not had the same appreciation for RWD back then as I might now.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,980
    Don't forget - it's more fun to drive a slow car in a spirited manner than a fast car the same way.
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