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BMW Driving Experience

24

Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,584
    Wait...that's the hatchback style?! It's more attractive looking than what I remember them being. Maybe it's like a fine wine, and just has to age a bit to be appreciated?

    Speaking of vehicular abuse, I've toyed with the idea of putting my '79 New Yorker in the burnout contest they have at the Mopar show in Carlisle. If I blew one of the tires, I could always just throw on the spare (no SureGrip, so it won't spin them both), but with my luck, I'd fry the transmission or blow the engine. And, at the end of the day, that thing needs to get me back home!
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,015
    I've thought of how nice that new engine would work in my ti, but properly installing it would be a nightmare... :(

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,015
    Maybe it's like a fine wine, and just has to age a bit to be appreciated?

    The Club Sports(and 1996-on Sports) got the M Technic(AKA M3) front bumper and side skirts. The Club Sport also wears M3 mirrors.

    Speaking of vehicular abuse, I've toyed with the idea of putting my '79 New Yorker in the burnout contest they have at the Mopar show in Carlisle. If I blew one of the tires, I could always just throw on the spare (no SureGrip, so it won't spin them both), but with my luck, I'd fry the transmission or blow the engine. And, at the end of the day, that thing needs to get me back home!

    One of my friends competed in One Lap a few years ago. He said that an SRT-10 Ram pickup blew a tire in an impromptu burnout contest. Pretty spectacular, but I know that replacing it wasn't cheap...

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,251
    BMW is trying to catch back up to you. No more tears! :shades:

    Regards,
    OW
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,345
    edited September 2011
    Obviously the "driving enjoyment" quotient is way-different, but I never really wanted my daily car to be a 'hey look at me' status-symbol thing (obviously). I use my old '66 Stude for that...and even in old cars I'm not into status symbols!

    Here we are, back at the old 'domestic stuff falls apart' saw, yet when anyone mentions how certain foreign makes aren't known for reliability, the discussion shifts from quality meaning 'driving excitement' totally instead of reliability. For the price, shouldn't one get both?

    I have rented many makes of cars. Worst car I had this year so far? Camry with 15K miles. Obviously needed control arm bushings, and the Traction Control light never went out. My coworker thought it was a POS too. But again, the perception is that they're wonderful. I'm always awaiting an epiphany when I drive a media darling like a Camry. I'm usually disappointed.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,251
    edited September 2011
    You tend to just like transportation in the basic sense. Once you decide to really enjoy driving, try one of the less-dependable Germans...for more than a test drive.

    I agree the maintenance/repair costs are higher but if you are a driving enthusiast, there are few US models that can even come close.

    Regards,
    OW
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,900
    edited September 2011
    I don't know about that, I think the 3er hatch sold more to enthusiasts than posers - driving the odd hatchback in hatchback-hating USA doesn't sound too status conscious to me. Certainly someone like roadburner isn't in it for status, but for driving. They also weren't extremely expensive when new.

    Insanely few cars offer absolute driving pleasure and an combination of extreme build/materials quality and high reliability. I don't know if anyone is saying the domestic simply falls apart, but even if it needs less maintenance, the overall package often doesn't feel so nice, certainly was the case during the era of that Cavalier.

    Rental cars are a tough call, who knows how they have been abused. I remember a Malibu rental in 2003 that was awful, many systems didn't function at all and the temp light was on all the time, an obvious defect. But I wouldn't judge the car on that. Had a Kia about 4 years ago that was an Enterprise car and was pretty trashed - but I didn't hold it against the car.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,345
    edited September 2011
    Rental cars are a tough call, who knows how they have been abused. I remember a Malibu rental in 2003 that was awful, many systems didn't function at all and the temp light was on all the time, an obvious defect. But I wouldn't judge the car on that. Had a Kia about 4 years ago that was an Enterprise car and was pretty trashed - but I didn't hold it against the car.

    Certainly true, but it was distinctly worse than every car I had the several weeks immediately preceding, and immediately afterwards. I also don't know what kind of 'spirited driving' would make the traction control light stay on, nor wear out the control arm bushings in 15K miles.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,345
    Is the track any worse that 5.5 years on the pothole-ravaged roads of the northern midwest, in all kinds of weather? Just askin'.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,280
    I agree the maintenance/repair costs are higher but if you are a driving enthusiast, there are few US models that can even come close.

    While I agree my German car has been more expensive to maintain, I'd argue it is far cheaper to keep running and REPAIRED than a domestic vehicle. At least in my anecdotal experience with a sample size of one each (well, two for the Germans if you count my parents '87 Jetta GLI when I was a kid).

    You can take the '87 Jetta and '06 A3 and combine the repair/maintenance costs and they still won't equal the '95 Neon.

    2006 A3 = 82,500 miles
    87' Jetta kept to just over 101,000 miles before being traded in.
    Neon = 65,000 miles at 4th towing and final straw.

    I, however, don't include maintenance costs into my "costs" normally as all cars have them. But yes, driving a German car the way it is meant to be driven will require replacing tires on a regular basis $$$$$$. Driving a Toyota like it's a Buick might get you 80,000 miles on the same tires!
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,280
    I imagine driving in sub zero temperatures might be hard on a car (at least at start-up).

    However, all States have their share of potholes as the gov't would rather waste money on radar dectector dectectors in Virginia than on fixing our roads.

    I think Track use is unique and definitely requires a well built and engineered automobile. If one drives for short 20 to 30 minute intervals a few times for a few days on a couple of occassions each year at the track, I'd imagine it is not particularly hard on a "high quality" car. But a low quality car might have issues day 1 lap 1 on the track.

    Some have argued my domestic car was a lemon because I've flogged it as a teenager. I've countered that a properly engineered car has no issues being driven any which way it can be (such as on a Track; my A3, or as a teenager, my friends Corolla/Prism.) He flogged his Prism 500% more than my Neon, and my A3 is used probably 150% more spiritedly than the Neon (even though I'm older now), yet we all know which 2 could handle being driven by a real driver.

    His Prism was flawless to 100,000 miles despite full throttle acceleration being the normal course of business for it.

    If a car can't be driven any which way it lets you without falling apart, then the engineers at Chrysler should have set the rev limiter at 3K, the top speed at 55 MPH, and the price tag at $999.99.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,900
    I bet a nice curb smack could mess up those suspension bits. For the traction control, probable defect...Camrys aint what they used to be ;)

    Traction control light on my MB comes on a bit...but that's because of how it is driven :shades:
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    Yeah, huge difference between any BMW and a Cav, from complexity to driving enjoyment.

    Until this conversation came up, I've never heard the words Cavalier and BMW in the same sentence before. The spare tire in a BMW probably utilized more engineering resources than a whole Cavalier;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,251
    Until this conversation came up, I've never heard the words Cavalier and BMW in the same sentence before. The spare tire in a BMW probably utilized more engineering resources than a whole Cavalier;)

    ROTFLMAO!! ULG compares his stellar repair costs to the 318ti Club Sport which RB modified for track days. How long do you think a Cavalier would last flogging 5 times per year on a road coarse at 10/10ths of it's capability???? The mod for the Cav would be a tow truck to bring it to the shredding center!!

    Not too long and the cost would lend itself to disposal after only 1 year, I would guess. Of course, you could mod the Cav but the mod would be a tow truck to bring it to the shredding center!!

    Hardly an apples/apples comparison we all know ULG stands behind. Let's call a spade a spade and an appliance an appliance.

    Everything is relative and there are basic efficient transportation and even then, those that costs more to repair in the same class. Corolla vs. Cavalier, for instance.

    Value for the Money
    Compared with its most natural rival, the sportier-natured Dodge/Plymouth Neon, the refined Cavalier puts comfort and utility ahead of performance and style. All told, however, it doesn't match the refinement of the Toyota Corolla. For a reasonable sum, however, you get a car with dual airbags and antilock braking, even if it isn't quite as much fun to drive as a Neon.


    Regards,
    OW
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    RB, very nice car. The first BMW I ever got behind the wheel of was a 1990 318i which a older friend of mine bought new a year or so out of college. Wow, that car blew me a away. Having mainly driven domestics I'd never experienced a car that performed so effortlessly. It's something that's hard to describe, but the feel of the car was like nothing that I was accustom to. I think the only word that came out of my mouth after driving it was "wow".

    No it wasn't particularly fast, but it was the way it went about its business that thoroughly impressed me. It was extremely solid and everything about the powertrain was precise and smooth. It felt like you couldn't drive it hard enough to break it.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,015
    RB, very nice car. The first BMW I ever got behind the wheel of was a 1990 318i which a older friend of mine bought new a year or so out of college. Wow, that car blew me a away. Having mainly driven domestics I'd never experienced a car that performed so effortlessly. It's something that's hard to describe, but the feel of the car was like nothing that I was accustom to. I think the only word that came out of my mouth after driving it was "wow".

    Thanks for the kind words. The 318i you drove is a bit of a cult car among hard-core BMW enthusiasts. The M42 four cylinder is a very durable unit that will often go 250,000 miles before a rebuild.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,345
    Again, gotta say, the one BMW I was familiar with (5-series) needed a new engine at 86K miles. Now when someone says their (fill in the blank domestic) needed an engine at 86K miles, there are ten posts of derision afterwards. This earlier post resulted in no comments whatsoever about the engine. Why the disparity? Is it all about driving enjoyment on a European car? There's the lack of applies-to-apples here.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    edited September 2011
    Again, gotta say, the one BMW I was familiar with (5-series) needed a new engine at 86K miles. Now when someone says their (fill in the blank domestic) needed an engine at 86K miles, there are ten posts of derision afterwards.

    Yeah, most domestics with 86k aren't worth the expense of replacing an engine.

    If your going to compare a bmw or MB with domestics, it really needs to be limited to Lincoln and Cadillac. Comparing cheap Chevys and Fords to expensive BMWs and MBs is ridiculous. I don't think many of us would compare a Malibu or Cruze to a CTS.

    I don't know how good or bad BMW's are regarding reliability. The few people I know that have them like them. I've always really liked driving them, but have never bought one. Maybe someday.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,931
    Hot topic and not sure if there's a great place for you guys to post, unless y'all are used to posting over in Luxury Sedans.

    Maybe we need a BMW Driving Experience discussion (or maybe Bimmer vs the World?).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    I think it is kind of relative to talk about BMW or any other vehicle that is built in the USA. I got to debating some of Rocky's friends on Facebook. They are anti anything but UAW built. They would rather have US buy a car with 40% US content assembled by UAW factory, than a Toyota, Honda or BMW with much higher US content. It is that mentality that makes me want to steer clear of anything UAW built. They have in their minds that UAW members are more deserving of a job, than say a VW worker in TN. They have the misguided thinking that in this global society, all the money GM makes stays within our borders. After several days of beating my head against the wall I opted out. It was 4-5 totally Rah Rah UAW supporters against superior logic. Of course when I pointed out the Secretary of Labor had just bought an Equinox built in Canada they all went into overload.

    Obama Labor Boss Buys Canadian-Built Car

    http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/08/31/obama-labor-b- oss-buys-canadian-built-car

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qek5O9TaDhM

    I personally feel my 85% US content Sequoia built in Princeton Indiana is helping more US workers than buying an Equinox built in Canada.
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