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Jaguar X-Type

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Comments

  • Good move. Depreciation on Jaguars (and luxury cars in general) is so high that you can save signifant $$$ if you're lucky and find one that's less than 1yr/10,000 miles.

    Is the deal final? If not, I would check to see if the certified used status is available. That gives you a 6yr, 100,000 mile warranty from orig. purchase date.

    Of course it depends on how long you typically keep a car but it could be worth it even if it costs a few hundred bucks.

    JAG
  • Yes, the vehicle was certified, so I did get the additional warranty. And yes, the deal is final and I've been driving it for a little over a week. It also has the xenon headlights, with the automatic leveling system. After going over the entire vehicle, I can't find a scratch, or a nick in the paint. The interior is spotless. It will probably take me two to three months to figure out the NAV system, but it seems to be working fine. :) The original window sticker price, which was down with the spare tire, was $41,140, not counting any tax or dealer charges. I figure I got almost a $3.00/mile discount.
     I probably will only keep this car 4-5 years, which should yield 50-60,000 miles. I have a couple of other vehicles that I drive also.
  • Is it my imagination - or does the automotive press in the US have a particular grudge against the X-type - and the Jaguar company in general? Even now, the canards about 'faulty electrical systems' and 'unreliability' are being passed out - 20 years after they had any real validity. Personally, I think Jaguar is a victim of 'press homicide' = a tragedy for the dedicated Jaguar employees back in Coventry. Any comments from board members?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    The automotive press looks at the X type and calls it a gussied up Mondeo/Contour. I realize that it isn't a straight badge engineering job but the press can be very critical. David E. Davis of Automobile in a recent article said it was the Jaguar nobody asked for. IMHO, the X-type really isn't anything special. It doesn't have the sporting capabilities of a BMW. It doesn't have the cache of MB. It doesn't have the reliability of Lexus.

    The fact that I can walk into my local Jaguar emporium and buy an 04 X Type with stick shift for less than $23K is an issue - that's Honda/Nissan/Toyota territory. I happen to like the X Type styling and it may be a great buy. But other than the fact that there is a Jaguar label on it, what's the compelling reason to buy it?
  • I believe you answered your own question. The compelling reason to buy it is that you can get a Jaguar at a Honda/Nissan/Toyota price.

    It's truly unfortunate that the U.S. press beats the car down. The upside is that we can take advantage of it. Now you can get a great car with AWD,leather and features that compare favorably with a 3 series BMW for less than the price of a Camry.

    It's like being in on a best kept secret. The bad press is forcing the price down. People see Jaguar and figure I paid 50 grand for the thing.

    Don't worry about the press. If you think the car is a good deal, grab it and be thankful for the savings.

    JAG
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    I believe you answered your own question. The compelling reason to buy it is that you can get a Jaguar at a Honda/Nissan/Toyota price.

    Other than the price there is no other reason since the reputation is still one of high cost to maintain and poor resale. The greater issue is what a $23K Jaguar does to the reputation of the Jaguar brand.
  • I find it interesting the American editors keep pressing the "Mondeo point", especially since the Mondeo is not sold or known in the US. What I have read in Euro magazines about the Mondeo is quite positive.

    This past summer I rented a Mondeo diesel wagon in Italy and was very impressed. In fact, the interior had a few style points that I feel surpassed my X Type.

    In my experience the comparison is NOT a negative!
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: Other than the price there is no other reason ...

    me: It doesn't seem to me that there are many mid-size cars with AWD, leather, wood-dash, V-6, climate control, Alpine stereo, and 4 year Maint and warranty. And you have a choice of standard or auto. Go check what a Subaru Legacy costs, and then tell me why not an X-Type.
  • Well said. If you can get this car new at 23K, you have a great bargain. Sure, resale value will be poor based on the MSRP but you make your savings on the front end, which is the best place to make it. The people who worry about resale value are those who paid close to sticker at purchase.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    I find it interesting the American editors keep pressing the "Mondeo point", especially since the Mondeo is not sold or known in the US.

    The automotive enthusiast knows the Mondeo (and that is who the automotive press writes for) and wonders why it's not sold here. If it were, even more folks would scratch their heads over the X type.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    It doesn't seem to me that there are many mid-size cars with AWD, leather, wood-dash, V-6, climate control, Alpine stereo, and 4 year Maint and warranty.

    Street price for the Legacy GT is in the 26K area.

    For many people the X Type is a fantastic vehicle and a tremendous bargain. If it works for you great. My point is that the X Type does nothing to help Jaguar. It was supposed to create volume and allow Jaguar to become profitable. In reality, it's a loss leader for them and I highly doubt that a current $23K X Type buyer will return and make the jump into a potentially more profitable S type/XJ/XK. Further, it erodes what little Jaguar mystique was left and could perhaps push Jaguar out. Remember, Ford has yet to make a profit off the brand in it's 10+ years of ownership.

    For me, the issue isn't so much resale value as reliability. I expect horrid resale even in comparison with a $23K buy price. In 4 years when my warranty/maintenance is gone, I don't look forward to $60 oil changes and $700 alternators.

    Now given all that, at $23K an X Type actually attracts me.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: Street price for the Legacy GT is in the 26K area.

    me: yep. I was considering the Legacy(s) and the X-Type fit in nicely, right between the 4-cyl and the turbo Legacies.

    you: My point is that the X Type does nothing to help Jaguar. It was supposed to create volume and allow Jaguar to become profitable.

    me: yeah they're probably losing money on them. The main reason I bet though is that as the U.S. dollar has weakened, they have kept the sticker price the same, AND offered large rebates.
    My brother saw my car last week and he wanted to know if he could get one at that price. So yes the volume could be there, but maybe not at $30K+.

    you: I highly doubt that a current $23K X Type buyer will return and make the jump into a potentially more profitable S type/XJ/XK.

    me: that's true here, though maybe a used one.

    you: For me, the issue isn't so much resale value as reliability. I expect horrid resale even in comparison with a $23K buy price.

    me: if you buy with the intent to sell in 3-4 years yes. If you keep the car 7-8 years, you've lost $20K with any car.

    you: I don't look forward to $60 oil changes and $700 alternators.

    me: I don't know about alternators, but I checked and oil filters are $3 at the local auto store. Or you go to Firestone, Midas, Sears ... and get the oil done for $15-$20.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    Good Banter!!

    me: yeah they're probably losing money on them. The main reason I bet though is that as the U.S. dollar has weakened, they have kept the sticker price the same, AND offered large rebates.

    But how long can they subsidize sales and remain viable?

    you: I highly doubt that a current $23K X Type buyer will return and make the jump into a potentially more profitable S type/XJ/XK.

    me: that's true here, though maybe a used one.


    Jaguar doesn't make any money on a used one.

    me: if you buy with the intent to sell in 3-4 years yes. If you keep the car 7-8 years, you've lost $20K with any car.

    I don't think you would lose $20K on the Subaru but that is a future we can't predict.

    me: I don't know about alternators, but I checked and oil filters are $3 at the local auto store. Or you go to Firestone, Midas, Sears ... and get the oil done for $15-$20.

    If I owned a Jag I wouldn't take it to any of those places for an oil change. Heck, I won't take my Honda to any of those places. Further, a synthetic oil change would cost more than $20 at any of those places.

    I just checked the web site of the local Jaguar emporium - front end alignment special is $149 - they recommend it every 7500 miles. EEEEKKKKK!! Do they have to fly Nigel and Ian in special for it??
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: But how long can they subsidize sales and remain viable?

    me: You seem to be fairly concerned about the Jaguar company itself. Even as an owner I'm not as concerned as you seem. Ford wouldn't let Jaguar die anytime soon. Like most corporations there is an absolute loathing to admit a mistake, or admit they're not smart enough to turn it around. Ford will support it for a number of years.

    you: Jaguar doesn't make any money on a used one.

    me: I have no interest whether they do or not.

    you: I don't think you would lose $20K on the Subaru but that is a future we can't predict.

    me: You seem to have had no trouble predicting the Jag's depreciation though. ;-) Ask yourself what would you pay today for a 1996 Subaru. More than $3K? Surely not more than $5K?

    you: If I owned a Jag I wouldn't take it to any of those places for an oil change.

    me: really? Basic items like changing fluids can be done by anyone. I only go to a dealer if it's highly technical - engine controls for example. I don't believe the manual mentions synthetic oil is needed by the way. I might use it though.

    you: I just checked the web site of the local Jaguar emporium - front end alignment special is $149 - they recommend it every 7500 miles.

    me: I just replaced my tires (Goodyear Eagle z-rated) on my other car at 36K without ever having an alignment, and had no unusual wear issues. I bet the Jag will be at least the same. The H-rated 16"s on the Jag should be no more than $100 ea. so even if you skimp on the alignment, it'll be cheaper to replace the tires early than get an alignment.

    If you want to read about outrageous maint. costs, go to Road&Track and checkout some of their long-term test cars, and what they get charged. Many times you'll see the recommended 15K or 30K mile service costing $300-$500. The Jag is free.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    Well we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    I do have a concern for the Jaguar company - as a Ford shareholder I hate to see them have to subsidize the product. As for Jaguar company longevity, Ford just announced it was closing the Coventry plant in an effort to stem the losses.

    As for the depreciation - were there any $20K Subarus in 1996? I don't think so. But just for kicks and giggles I did a comparison of a 96 XJ6 and Legacy LSi sedan - both at 96K miles and good condition. The Jag was KBB @ $5,250 and the Legacy was $3,580. Not knowing the definite MSRP, I'd have to presume the Jag was in the mid to high 30's and the Subaru $20K max. Based on this, I'd say the Jag lost more value. Non scientific but close enough for hand grenades.

    Service locations are a personal choice. I happen to use the dealer or a qualified independent mechanic. My success rate with the chain places you mentioned has been very poor, hence my lack of trust.

    As for maintenance costs, I mentioned the alignment. I personally would never align my car every 7.5K nor would I use the dealer for it. I just bring it up a point - Jag service is expensive when and if one needs it. That same alignment at a qualified tire shop would run less than $100.

    I really do wish you luck with the Jag and I do find it to be a great deal. But over the long term, the Jag would not be my first choice for my own car.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    you: Well we'll just have to agree to disagree.

    me: I enjoyed the discussion. I can see your points and concerns. Obviously most of us disagree on what's better since people make hundreds of different choices. Some people would say neither an X-Type or Legacy are decent choices because their mpg isn't high enough, or they don't have enough power, ...

    you: Service locations are a personal choice. I happen to use the dealer or a qualified independent mechanic.

    me: I've just divided my service up based on complexity, price, and convenience. I've never really had a bad experience on tires, batteries, oil, coolant at a non-dealer.

    Mileage Check. I have about 2K miles on the odometer, 2.5 manual; I got 28.5 mpg on a 85% interstate driving route. Not bad.
  • Can someone possibly help me. I have a 3.0 Xtype, 2004 and have noticed that at higher speeds, around 50 mph or so, when I let my foot off the accelerator I here a whining noise. It goes away as soon as I give it gas again, or after a few seconds. Could this be a differential, or is this normal with these cars being All wheel drive. Thanks for all the input......
    Todd
  • Todd,

    I have a 2004 X 2.5 manual. I don't have a whining noise as you described. If you have an automatic transmission, it may be related to that or maybe your tire pressure needs to be adjusted.

    -- Snowjag
  • Kernick,

    I get about 21.5 mpg on a 75% city driving route with a 2.5 X manual after about 2000 miles on the clock. Do you normally drive with the AC and Auto settings on as recommended in the owner's manual? I have been driving with these always on but have been thinking about turning the AC off since it's December and maybe getting better gas mileage.

    Also, have you tried going down one octane level from premium to "plus"? I have been tempted to try it and see how the car responds.

    Thanks, -- Snowjag
  • My '02 3.0 auto trans has had the middle grade of gas since it was new. At 21,000, I have had no problems. On a couple of trans continental trips I have used the highest grade in the mountains of Colorado just in case the altitude would effect drivability. The engine adjusts and I have never heard any knocking. In many states in the midwest, the middle grade(usually 89 octane)is actually cheaper than the low grade due to the alcohol subsidies.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    I've usually shutoff the Auto climate control having the same concern about the AC compressor using extra fuel. Not sure if it does - does it run or is it sitting "ready" in the winter?

    And yes I have put some 89 octane in, but never a full tank. I pu 1/2 a tank in, as the previous was 93 octane, so it should be an average of 91 octane, which I believe is what the manual recommends. Next gas will be 93. It's probably not worth trying to save a $1 and causing a problem though.

    I'd think the best thing you can do for mpg is shift at no more then 3K rpm, in normal driving. I don't drive the Jag as a sports car; I have an '01 Firebird if I want a "speed experience".
  • Gotcha, Thanks for the response....
  • OK, I'm cheap, but still want a good quality entry level lux. car with AWD. I'm thinking strongly about the X-type, but am concerned about size. I'm 6'2" and 240lbs, and have long legs the nearest dealer is 200 miles away and there are no used ones for sale in my local area and the local rental agencies don't stock this car (Medford, OR) Any feedback about the size issue?

    and I'll probably have to buy off Autotrader or maybe Ebay to get a reasonable deal or have any kind of selection of color. Feedback on that would also be appreciated....
    Thanks in advance!
  • First, don't get the sport version as the sport seat backs will be too narrow for you.

    Second, I wouldn't get a Jag at all if you don't have a nearby dealer.

    I bought my XType in So. Calif. and subsequently moved to the Midwest where the closest dealer is 90 miles away. Not a good thing when you need service plus the dealer owes you nothing since you didn't buy the car from him.

    Third, if you really have your heart set, get a Jaguar certified car from a Jag dealer. It is called Select Edition. and will cover the Jag for 6 year or 100,00 miles. Included is maintenance and 2 years of roadside assistance which in your case is a great benefit.

    Lastly, I would try for a 2003 or newer since many of the bugs in the '02 model were worked out. I have an '02 and had no problems but I consider myself fortunate.
  • Hey, with all the incentives on new X-Types and new ones going in the mid 20s, what would you guys expect to pay for a used one? What's reasonable on a 2002 2.5 X-Type Sport (manual) w/ close to 50k miles on it? I see some on dealers lots in the low 20s. Has anyone been able to negotiate them down a lot?

     

    Thanks,

    Craig
  • I have just purchased a new 2004 X-Type 2.5 Manual. I have read several reviews, which pointed out the pronounced wind noise. However, I personally think the car is managing the wind noise fairly well, but there is a drive-train noise I can hear above 60 mph. Do you hear the same thing or is it just me?

     

    By the way, I also have the "humming noise" coming from the steering column area, which some of you referred to. I assume it is normal and comes from a computer cooling fan.

     

    I am curious what is your experience with oil consumption in the X-Type and how often do you change oil?
  • desertguydesertguy Posts: 730
    In my '02 3.0 auto, the wind noise is not intrusive at all. I use no oil between changes. With the change intervals @ 10K miles, and free for the first three, I still change the oil myself at 5K intervals. It takes me a year to get 10K and I just can't make myself keep that oil in there that long. Could well be a waste of money.
  • Has anyone any experience with aftermarket performance parts for the X, especially the 3.0?

     

    What did you do and how did it turn out?
  • I understand that you don't want to keep the oil in your engine for more than 6 months and that's why you change it every 5K miles. That makes sense. I will probably follow the same oil change interval - 5K miles or 6 months.

     

    It snowed yesterday in Chicago, so I had a chance to test the X-Type on the slippery roads. At first, I wasn't that impressed as although the car took off with authority, it had a tendency to fishtail a bit (pointing to its rear-drive bias). The ABS worked well and cornering was still surprisingly good. Then, for comparison, I drove my wife's Daewoo Leganza, which is a front-wheel-drive with traction control. I was stunned as could barely move forward! It was wet snow turning into ice, so the roads were exeptionally slippery. The AWD is absolutely awesome and makes a HUGE difference in the snow!
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    A Jag X-Type and a Daewoo Leganza sharing a driveway - talk about extremes!!
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