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Jaguar X-Type

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  • That info. is helpful. What do you mean by skipping gears? I have a manual and often go from 1st to 3rd or 3rd to 5th. That's not a problem, is it?

    JAG
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    tincup47... Regardless of whether it is an automatic or a manual transmission, that is why the world is moving to more gears (6-7-8) and relatively infinite gears (CVT). Provides increased fuel economy and improved performance. Of course, there are limits that will be reached.

    Your missed shift issue might hold for racing. But we are talking about production cars being driven on the road by us average Joes and Janes. [Even then, racers don't use 1-, 2-, or 3-speed trannys any more.]
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    Most of the racing applications that are using more gears are with vehicles that have high strung, high revving engines with narrow RPM bands of peak power. They are also have the money to replace or rebuild these transmissions regularly. Nascar vehicles are getting by nicely with 4 speed transmissions even on road courses. The style of racing and the engines determine the transmissions used. I still believe that the benefits of ratio spread on a manual are not as meaningful as they are on an automatic due to the human factor. Regardless of spread, driver A might regularly shift at 3-4000 RPM while driver B shifts regularly at redline. Totally different results.
     As for missing shifts, I still occasionally do that myself, especially if I'm trying to rush my shifts. But like I said, my take on the necessity on six speed transmissions in Jaguars is my own personal opinion. I still feel the additional complexity is not justified by the potential benefits. It doesn't really matter what I think to the manufacturer though, they will make the decision based on demand by the public.
  • Of course the advantage of a 6 speed over a 5 speed is that 1st gear can be lower (for quicker starts) and top gear can be a little higher (for better gas mileage - how else could a 405hp Z06 Vette get almost 30 MPG).

    My opinion is that 6 speeds is probably "enough". But who knows, maybe in 5 years, 7 speeds will be the norm. Automakers are trying their best to "out gear" the competition. Just 5 years ago, having a 5 speed auto was a something special.

    Does anyone remember in the 50s that GM's automatic was a 2 speed!
  • kssodkssod Posts: 37
    is there any word as to when a 3.0 high output is expected. I think a 20-30 hp bump along with either 6 speed tranny would make a nice competitor to the 330i Performance, as well as, a great replacement for my 02 x-type. Practical wish list
    1) smoother clutch uptake and a short throw 6 speed
    2)A 6 speed auto with a better automanual than the J-gate
    3) Electronic parking brake like on S type
    4) More wood and chrome on the sport package
    5) that's about it.... all the sneak preview of the 04 upgrades seem to address most of my other nit picks.

    6) oh ya... How about a quantum leap improvement in quality control and reliability compared to my 02
    I know I must be the exception but honestly its been back over 15 times for unscheduled repairs
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    The MY2004 summaries for MT, C&D, R&T, and Automobile are out. I've read each of them over. Nary a single mention of a 6-speed manual in the works for the USA X-type. At least for MY2004. If Jag is going to do it, they aren't telegraphing this to the American press.
  • None of the American motoring press except Road & Track has even mentioned the X-type Estate, and they only had two official press photos and 2 or 3 sentences written about it that were taken from other articles. Because the two new 6-speed transmissions are not going to be available right when 2004 production begins, they will be introduced as running changes like the double cupholders or AWD badging, etc., and are therefore not mentioned in the short blurbs that the American motoring press writes in its 2004 new car editions, which only cover some of the changes available from the start of the 2004 model year. They do mention the bumper changes and some of the minor stuff, but none of the major changes such as the BOFE or new structural components, which are highlighted in detail by many of the articles posted here in previous messages.

    On the six-speeds, Auto Express recently wrote in their "First Look" at the X-type Estate:

    "Gearbox choice will be equally wide [as engine choice, which was mentioned in the paragraph before this one]. Entry-level cars will have a five-speed manual, with buyers of flagship models getting a choice of manual and automatic boxes, both offering six ratios."

    U.S. X-types will get the two six-speeds and the current five-speeds will either continue on basic versions of the car, or be restricted to the basic versions of the car sold in Europe or on the diesel. The five speeds may be restricted to base European cars when the six-speeds arrive in the U.S.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

    "Great Body, Good Legs, and as with Most Beauties, an Inclination to be Tempermental" and "Better with Age" C&D and R&T respective Long Term raves!

    Car&Driver and Road&Track both have Long-Term X-type updates. Aparently, they had pretty problematic cars (they seem to have had every early production issue the car has had), but now the cars are working "like a Swiss watch" and have been "running flawlessly for quite some time;" and they say the only complaints about the cars are the manual transmission clutches, the feel of which they dislike. Aside from that, they are enthusiastic about the X-type, even noting that though it initially scored poorly in their first comparison tests, it was because they "couldn't decide what to make of the new cat," being skeptical about a new Jaguar in a new market, but now "despite a slow start [in their warming-up to the car], it appears this Jag is ready to run" and that the car only gets "better with age," which was also the title of the R&T update. "Editors continue to laud the X-type for its crisp exterior lines, classy interior, comfortable front seats and the ample passing power of the 3.0-liter V-6." An editor's note from Car & Driver says, "I enjoy driving this Jaguar more than other Jag models. The X-type actually feels 'sporty' for a Jaguar." C&D also noted that their car got better with age as well, as performance in the 0-60 and quarter mile improved over time (see, I've been saying it has to be broken in a bit and then it refines itself over time). AWD they said was blizzard proof. They end saying that "after 13 months, it's clear the X-type has many traditional Jaguar virtues: elegant styling, good power, amd a smooth, comfortable, quiet ride." Another editor's note said "Great power, fairly fun to drive, and it feels like a Jag as opposed to a Ford in sheep's clothes." So, again it has proved to be a real Jaguar - they don't even question that anymore. They both loved the power, styling, ride, and quietness of the X-type, and though they could have done without having to have ironed out the initial troubles from early production cars, they mentioned that even the issues themselves "did not damage the Jaguar's popularity" with them so much as having to wait for the parts themselves. Road&Track has been enjoying the X-type Jag so much that they had to include a speeding ticket in the spent money category! The articles can be found in the October 2004 issues of Car&Driver and Road&Track.
  • AutoExpress reports that "Jaguar Heats Up X-type," saying that "A hot new X-type is headed for the road." Set to be unveiled at the March Geneva Motor Show, this latest addition to the X-type line features a naturally-aspirated 3.0 liter engine boosted to 250 horsepower, as well as a new lower suspension and body kit with spoilers, etc. (This is probably why the 6-speed transmissions are coming, as they'll be smoother and offer better fuel economy despite the higher-output of the engine. Doubters of the introduction of the 6-speeds should notice that none of the American car magazines, which note the "changes for 2004," mentioned this version of the X-type or the engine power boost either, though Jaguar is finishing the final touches on the engine at this very moment, and the car will be available soon in 2004.)

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=39823
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Don't forget that in USA they are defined in terms of when the new model comes out in relation to the New Year. A car that comes out in January or December of 2003 is normally a MY2004. A car that comes out in January or December of 2004 can be considered a MY2005, depending upon how the manufacturer chooses to designate it.

    For example, BMW made some changes to the 3 Series coupes and convertibles in the spring of 2003. Those cars are considered MY2004s, even though the MY 2003 cycle doesn't normally end until later this CY and they are being sold along side MY2003 sedans being built at the exact same time.

    So if a revised X-type comes out after 1/1/04, Jaguar can, if they want, call them as MY2005s. The car mags were primarily focused on MY2004s.

    I have no idea how European model year cycles work.
  • It doesn't appear that boosting the HP from 227 to 250 would make that much difference. Maybe it would. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will weigh in.

    The good news is that it's obvious that the 2.5L is being phased out. The price reduction and added standard features for the 3.0 have just about wiped out the financial incentive to buy the 2.5. I expect it will be offered with little or no options in economical lease deals.

    I predict that in the next 3-4 years, the 3.0 will be the base model. The upgrade will be either a V-8 or an "R" version.

    Get ready to rock!

    JAG
  • They could call them MY 2016's if they wanted to, but Jaguar doesn't - or at least has not thus far - labeled its cars with model years much more than half a year ahead, as opposed to a full year ahead as some other manufacturers do, which I for one feel is a rediculous practice anyway (if you didn't catch the hyperbole at the beginning of this far-too-long sentence) :-) The magazines note that the new front end styling on the Chrysler Sebring convertibles is a 2004 change, despite it having been out since the early months of 2003 - I guess Chrysler uses the leap-ahead model year designations, but I count those as mid-year 2003 changes. All of the mentioned changes and additions to the X-type are for the 2004 model year, however, according to Jaguar's slightly more reality-accurate year-labeling system.

    ENGINES

    The 2.5 liter is not being phased out entirely. Jaguar, however, wishes to divide X-type sales with 75% or so being 3.0 liters, as that engine is the more spectacular of the two in terms of the driving experience (currenly 75% of X-types are sold with the 2.5 liter engine). In whatever the future holds, Jaguar is to start utilizing the engine blocks from Volvo when the current blocks (both V8 and V6) are no longer applicable for upgrades through the years. A 3.5 liter version of the current AJ-V6 is speculated, but may not come about before the switch to Volvo-based engines in the future. The reviews have just started noting how good the current engines really are, with much praise being showered upon the V6's of late (mostly the 3.0). That Jaguar can get 250 horsepower out of its 3.0 liter engine is quite a feat, as Mercedes gets only 215 out of its 3.2 liter V6, Audi 225 from its 3.0 liter, BMW 225 from its 3.0 liter (235 with the new performance package), Lexus 215 from its 3.0 liter and 225 from its new 3.3 liter, Infiniti and Acura 260 - just 10 more horsepower from engines with half a liter more displacement each than the Jaguar engine, and Cadillac 220 from its 3.2 liter 6. More horsepower is always a benefit, and it should be able to boost the X-type's already top-end of its class quickness even higher. The 227 hosepower 3.0 liter in my car allows it to act like a rocket, especially compared to the other normally-aspirated Jags, and the magazines have all been commenting on how the X-type 3.0 has "great legs" (C&D 10/03) and an engine that gets "universal praise," (R&T 03) so 23 more horsepower will be felt in their nano-second measuring tests. 6.3 seconds to 60 is the time for the 250 horsepower engine to beat. Plus, the 250 horsepower X-types have new sport suspensions and will have the 6-speeds, which will make them more fuel efficient, smoother, and probably add to their quickness. Jaguar is just doing what it takes to keep every generation Born to Perform.
  • Jagboyxtype,
       If the figures that have been bouncing around are correct, a 2.5 with Automatic, Premium Pkg. and moonroof would cost as much or MORE than the 3.0 which has all of these features as standard. I don't believe that 2.5 sales will even reach 25%, maybe 10% for those who want a good lease deal on a 2.5 manual with no options.
        I know we're both just speculating. Hit me back if you feel my conclusions are off.

    JAG
  • bft4x4 Aug 23, 2003 6:16pm
    I know it's kind of late on replying to this subject. But, I just found this discussion board today. Anyway, here is the lease deal I got from Crown Jaguar at St. Pete, FL on August 28, 2003:
    2003 X-Type 2.5 Automatic w/Platinum metallic paint
    $301 + $22 tax per month for 48 months
    12,000 miles per year, $0.12 per extra mile
    $2,300 down including first month payment.
  • mmm17mmm17 Posts: 31
    Does anyone know if the 2004 X-Type will have 2 front seat cup holders and voice activated controls for the navigation? I currently own a 2000 Acura TL and I've been waiting to replace this car with the new 2004 TL. The feed back I've been getting from 2 dealerships is that the car will be selling for full sticker price and cars with navigation might not be available until December or later. I've decided to look for an alternate car, I need front wheel drive and navigation and duel front seat cup holders (both my wife and I are coffee drinkers). The X-type sounds like it could fit my needs IF the 2 cup holders are out. The Jaguar website does show or say anything about the cup holders or voice controls, any of you jag owners can shed some light?
  • tincup47tincup47 Posts: 1,508
    I just bought a 2003 X-Type 2.5 and it has the dual front cupholders. I don't have the NAV system so cannot say about that.
  • jonty12jonty12 Posts: 101
    in short, yes. the 2004 x-type meets both your requirements (though it has awd not fwd).
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    First of all, I love my X-Type and the service associated with ownership. Owning the problem child Infinity G35 is a chore. Infinity is also royal pain when it comes to service (if you can call it that). Infinity will go to great lengths to NOT fix issues. Jaguar, on the other hand, bends over backwards to retain customers. Jaguar now has me, and I am sure others, hooked for life. The entry level X-Type is doing a good job.

    I am glad to see Jaguar slowly phasing-out the 2.5L. It is simply weak and under powered. I cannot wait to get rid of my lease for a quicker Jaguar. When Dodge Neons beat the 2.5L at a stoplight, it is time for a new car.

    The 2.5L is the only thing I would change. Why would anyone want the 2.5L now if the 3.0L is more economical?

    Do you think Jaguar marketing thought of this before offering the deap discounts?
  • I would agree on your comments for the most part. The reason for the large number of sales for the 2.5 is the ridiculous difference in price between it and the 3.0. Jaguar is snagging many first time buyers with the ad campaign for the low lease rates. When they get to the dealer they find it is for the 2.5. I had a '03 2.5 loaner with 1500 miles on it and drove it about 250 miles. Not that underpowered but I was glad to get back into my 3.0. And BTW, the Dodge Neon will beat a lot of cars 0-60. They are a fast econo car. The new Neon SRT-4 will beat the 3.0 handily with a 0-60 time of 6.2 seconds.
  • I read the complimentary service being offered is once every 10k miles or 12 months between oil/filter changes.

    Is that right/recommended?
    I thought oil changes should be every 3k miles or 3 months or at least every 6k miles.
    I dont anticpate 10k miles in 1 year.
  • msisengmsiseng Posts: 369
    The Dodge Neon SRT-4 is fast. It is just embarrassing when it can beat a Jaguar hands-down. Jaguars are known for performance, right? My Infinity G35 blows away (performance only) the S-Type 4.0 which I find sad given the ENORMOUS price differential. Granted, it is the same Front-Midship (FM) racing engine used in five other Nissan/Infinity vehicles (Altima 3.5, Maxima 3.5, 350Z, I35 and the FX). Disclaimer: In the future, I will gladly pay for this differential due to Jaguar service and the Jaguars' aesthetic qualities.

    Jaguar offers the 10K service for free. If you let the oil go that long, your engine WILL build sludge. Lexus used to recommend this service interval and now has to take back many leased "sludge" cars. "Sludge Car" is the technical term the Lexus dealers now use. What about the people who own? Well, they are stuck with expensive engine repairs. How do I know this? Well, an acquaintance is a chief mechanic for Lexus and tells horror stories. Lexus did their customers a disservice and now Jaguar is doing the same.

    Even if you do not drive 10K miles in one year, change the oil every six months to be safe.

    I had the Jag oil changed at 4K miles to be safe even if the car is leased. The cost was an appalling $49.00 at the dealer. However, the dealer performed a lot of free maintenance, replaced a defective tire and performed a mini-detail, so the price is palatable. Love this service!

    Question: Are both the 2.5L and the 3.0L made is Cleveland, Ohio? Does Ford make the S-Type engines in the states or in England?
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