A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

guitarzan

qbrozen said:

stever said:

And let me guess - a real tread measuring tool costs $40, right?

What is a "real tread measuring tool"? I have a little pocket one that cost something like $2.99. Works great.

http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1788&prodid=7374&pagetitle=Dial+Tread+Depth+Gauge+with+Pouch

As an example, I have this tread depth gauge from Longacre. It is a very pretty and solid tool. I wish I could recall if it were made in USA, I think so, but am not sure. (Build country is a major priority for me when buying tools.)

You place the dial on the tire with the center of it above a sipe. You press a pin in the top and a pin comes out the bottom and travels until it hits the bottom of the tread. The reading on the dial tells you the depth, the distance between where the gauge sit on top of the tread and where the pin stops at the bottom of the tread.

This has been handy for me more often than I thought it would be. When I rotate my tires I have forgotten to mark where each wheel came from. (I usually use a white wax pencil to mark the tire RR, LF etc.) No problem, with the gauge I measure the tread and the tires that are slightly more used are the ones that were in the front of the car where more of the car's weight and pressure from braking is.

At some point I began living by the rules that Cardoc is iterating. The ability to push water out of the way is long gone before hitting the minimum recommended tread depth. To me, taking a tire to its limit kind of defies all of the reasons for buying a decent tire in the first place.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

stever said:

And let me guess - a real tread measuring tool costs $40, right?

What is a "real tread measuring tool"? I have a little pocket one that cost something like $2.99. Works great.

And, yes, that tire looks like hell. I'd have replaced them already.

Scary looking tire, Stever. Sooner than later on those puppies.

qbrozen

guitarzan said:

And let me guess - a real tread measuring tool costs $40, right?

What is a "real tread measuring tool"? I have a little pocket one that cost something like $2.99. Works great.

http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1788&prodid=7374&pagetitle=Dial+Tread+Depth+Gauge+with+Pouch As an example, I have this tread depth gauge from Longacre. It is a very pretty and solid tool. I wish I could recall if it were made in USA, I think so, but am not sure. (Build country is a major priority for me when buying tools.) You place the dial on the tire with the center of it above a sipe. You press a pin in the top and a pin comes out the bottom and travels until it hits the bottom of the tread. The reading on the dial tells you the depth, the distance between where the gauge sit on top of the tread and where the pin stops at the bottom of the tread. This has been handy for me more often than I thought it would be. When I rotate my tires I have forgotten to mark where each wheel came from. (I usually use a white wax pencil to mark the tire RR, LF etc.) No problem, with the gauge I measure the tread and the tires that are slightly more used are the ones that were in the front of the car where more of the car's weight and pressure from braking is. At some point I began living by the rules that Cardoc is iterating. The ability to push water out of the way is long gone before hitting the minimum recommended tread depth. To me, taking a tire to its limit kind of defies all of the reasons for buying a decent tire in the first place.

That works exactly the same as my cheap tool. Much like a tire pressure gauge, you can get a pricey one with a dial or a cheap one with a white bar that extends from within. Mine is the latter.

roadburner

I have a depth tool that I won at a BMW CCA event. Accurate and dead simple to use. As far as pressure gauges go, I have a quality pencil gauge in every car- but I'm finally going to break down and buy a quality dial gauge with a bleeder valve as it makes setting the correct pressure so much easier.

stever

If you think the tires are scary, you should see the Michigan wheels.

In person the tires don't look all that bad (flash photo in my garage last night) and the grooves are nice and deep with the penny and ruler method I used. That's why I was asking about 4/32nds and if that was really an okay depth in the real world (I think these had 8/32nds when new vs the 10/32nds the Continentals have).

qbrozen

roadburner said:

I have a depth tool that I won at a BMW CCA event. Accurate and dead simple to use. As far as pressure gauges go, I have a quality pencil gauge in every car- but I'm finally going to break down and buy a quality dial gauge with a bleeder valve as it makes setting the correct pressure so much easier.

I picked up one of those on Amazon for pretty cheap. It is very nice to have at racing events to quickly let out some pressure.

Mr_Shiftright

How old are those tires?

stever

lol, who can read the date codes on those things?

thecardoc3

I can...

xwesx

stever said:

lol, who can read the date codes on those things?

Pretty straight forward, just find the four digits, such as 2211, then decode as follows:

The first two are the week of manufacture.
The second two are the year.

So, 2211 decodes as approximately the first week of June 2011.

stever

And the numbers should be just after the 8 digit/letter DOT code? Or is the date W8DX?

See the little oval after the DOT codes? Blank on all my tires. Can I tell Michelin to give me a new set?

stever

xwesx

stever said:

And the numbers should be just after the 8 digit/letter DOT code? Or is the date W8DX?

See the little oval after the DOT codes? Blank on all my tires. Can I tell Michelin to give me a new set?

They can be a little tricky. While the codes you snapped show up on both sides of the tire, the date code typically only shows up on the side of the tire that's mounted toward the vehicle (convenient, I know).

On that other side, though, you should see that DOT B9PJ W8DX followed by four digits. It's those last four that are the date code.

xwesx

Huh. In trying to figure out why the date code only appears on the inner side of the tire in many cases, I came across this article on Tire Rack.

The use of a partial Tire Identification Number on the one sidewall (shown above) reduces the risk of injury to the mold technician that would have to install the weekly date code on the top sidewall portion of a hot tire mold.

stever

lol, I think it's a conspiracy. And why not stamp "Tire manufactured in (country), June 2013. Too consumer friendly I guess.

The next time I have the tires off for rotation I'll check. They'll be completely bald before that happens, lol.

(hm, maybe put the camera timer on, stick it under there with the tripod and let it take some snaps?)

xwesx

They sorta do, but space is a premium! All that other coding tells them the make, model, and manufacturing location within whatever coding system they devised (sorta like a VIN except not unique per tire) for it. One could probably find a decoder out there if he wanted...

stever

Well, I don't buy it - they have all sorts of writing on my Michelins. It shouldn't be that hard to stamp a real date on there and still protect the workers messing around the molds.

What say you @capriracer?

xwesx

Fun with (de) codes.....

thecardoc3

This is why a repair shop should not be in someone's house. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ec_1471140113

stever

Is there a news story that goes with the video?

(Did a little search on mechanic's fires, yikes. Not pretty. Bet sprinkler systems will be required in the not too distant feature for repair shops, if they aren't already.)

thecardoc3

Nothing official that I found, just some tweets from the firemen. Being a residential setting its very likely that it wasn't a legitimate shop. The house was last on the market at some $340K+, it was a total loss.

thecardoc3

I went to the shop Saturday morning just for a first time customer who was hearing noise from her brakes. Checked it out and the first thing that I found was that the rear brakes weren't very old and she was the victim of a classic pad slap. The right rear caliper was seized and the pads on the right rear were worn all the way down to the wear sensor, the left rear pads were still at 8/32". The rear rotors were corroded, right rear overheated and both within .010" of the discard specification, so it needs pads, rotors and calipers to fix it correctly. The estimate was just over $700 which when you are looking at a rear brake job that includes the calipers with the slide assemblies is quite normal. The parts had to be ordered and there was no danger of making anything worse than it all ready was so she was able to drive it back home and use it for rest of the weekend.

So how was I rewarded for taking care of her? They called around price shopping and found someone that claimed that they would do it for less sight unseen. Funny isn't it? The best part is that I automatically flush the brake fluid when doing a job like that, no additional charge. I even discount the labor allowing for the overlapping operations and don't charge any additional for adjusting, lubricating, and cleaning the parking brake assemblies as required. (total quoted time 1.8hrs) and since she agreed to drop it off for today didn't charge her for checking it out. Well isn't that about par for the course anyway? When someone complains that a problem takes multiple visits to solve, stop and remember this event. Why should anyone spend the money and make the investment to be they very best that they can be, and treat people honestly when this is how you get rewarded for trying?

stever

You should have told her she got ripped off by the other shop and that she should sue and that you'd be happy to go to court with her.

Expert witnesses make a ton on money.

thecardoc3

stever said:

You should have told her she got ripped off by the other shop

How do you know it was a shop? Maybe they did it themselves after they read this

stever said:

and that she should sue and that you'd be happy to go to court with her.

Not applicable.

stever said:

Expert witnesses make a ton on money.

Ha. At this point she's already shown me what kind of a customer she is/would be. She is on her own.

guitarzan

Cardoc, that is a total bummer. The detail of the job that you explained to us, do you explain that to the customer?

Mr_Shiftright

You have to sink the hook, Doc. Make an appointment, write it down in front of her, and tell her you are ordering the parts.

stever

thecardoc3 said:

How do you know it was a shop?

A do it yourselfer would have listened to your diagnosis and then called the parts store, not another shop.

guitarzan

Mr_Shiftright said:

You have to sink the hook, Doc. Make an appointment, write it down in front of her, and tell her you are ordering the parts.

And his next step, when her "big brother" shows up and wants to know why she "was pressured" into "buying the expensive repair" when all she wanted to know was, "what is wrong with my car"?

guitarzan

>

Mr_Shiftright said:

You have to sink the hook, Doc. Make an appointment, write it down in front of her, and tell her you are ordering the parts.

And his next step, when her "big brother" shows up and wants to know why she "was pressured" into "buying the expensive repair" when all she wanted to know was, "what is wrong with my car"? RUN CARDOC RUN!

Mr_Shiftright

Well look, every business in the world loses some jobs to bottom feeders. People even fly to foreign countries for complex surgery after getting the diagnosis from Johns Hopkins.

As Sid Weiss, the old mechanic in my neighborhood in Brooklyn used to say:

"Better half the loaf than nothing to eat".

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

You have to sink the hook, Doc. Make an appointment, write it down in front of her, and tell her you are ordering the parts.

That's exactly what I did. (Had to send the parts back when they showed up) She gave me her word on having it done and then went back on it.

Mr_Shiftright

OK now tell us the rest of the story

roadburner

I had the same issues in private practice; only your legal malpractice insurance carriers tell you NOT to sue a client if they stiff you for a fee- because should you sue them and they file a counterclaim for malpractice the carrier won't defend you.
Nice, huh? Just one of the millions of reasons I took a job light-years distant from anything remotely involving the practice of law...

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

your legal malpractice insurance carriers tell you NOT to sue a client if they stiff you for a fee- because should you sue them and they file a counterclaim for malpractice the carrier won't defend you.

Yea, that would really be a rotten deal. In our case when a consumer does what she did, we are getting to deal with all of the times someone advised consumers to get the diagnostics done, and then shop around for a better price on the repair. We only have one recourse in this situation and it's not what a lot of people would say, think or do. I've heard many say they would just make up for it "the next time". To me that means turn around and be guilty of over charging, and I couldn't do that, wouldn't do that. I'll just make sure that there is no next time.

stever

The rest of the story is that she really couldn't afford to have the work done and has no alternative but to drive an unsafe car.

thecardoc3

stever said:

The rest of the story is that she really couldn't afford to have the work done and has no alternative but to drive an unsafe car.

Why isn't the story simply that what she did is exactly what you have said to do on a number of occasions?

stever

I get my free diagnostics from the internet, don't waste my time going to a garage. That way I don't waste a tech's time either.

There's a lot of people out there skimping by on few resources, and it's hard to make a living in this country without a car. Deferring maintenance is pretty common I think. And maybe she thought you'd give her a break or be able to do a quick fix with the parts she already purchased.

She may have promised anything, but her pride may have got in the way of her pocketbook.

Mr_Shiftright

thecardoc3 said:

stever said:

The rest of the story is that she really couldn't afford to have the work done and has no alternative but to drive an unsafe car.

Why isn't the story simply that what she did is exactly what you have said to do on a number of occasions?

Wha? I tell people to make appointments and then break them? I don't THINK so!

thecardoc3

Here is one I just added. It's vehicle specific, but really should be here.
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/42517/dodge/ram-van/misfire-with-codes-p1391-p0301/p1?new=1

stever

Sounds like the same solution there is what that Buick Century owner (mdybus) needs to do.

Sell it to the shop and let them waste hours trying to fix it.

thecardoc3

LOL. He did say "Thanks thecardoc3 I know now what I must do"
But that was before I wrote about this van.
I don't think he really has a clue about how to proceed. Anyone that does would have solved it long ago if they were given a chance....

thecardoc3

RatchetWrench/August-2016/Addressing-the-Technician-Gap

thecardoc3

OMG. http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/42434/toyota/camry/camry-v6-1994#latest

qbrozen

Haha. I'm not even bothering to answer on there. Waste of time.

thecardoc3

The sad part is the original poster shows up believing he/she can really get some help and well, get's something that's worth even less than what they paid for it. I'll let it run for a while, but somebody is going to have to clean up the mess.

Mr_Shiftright

I linked a VIDEO for him that shows how to read the OBD-1 codes. I don't know many people who have "scan tools" for OBD-1. Doc probably has a box of them though.

thecardoc3

Four capable of doing the job to be exact. Including the Vetronix Mastertech with the O.E. software.

Mr_Shiftright

Do you ever use them anymore?

thecardoc3

Yea. Being able to handle such a wide variety of manufacturers and systems is the hallmark of how my shop has been run for the last twenty + years. For example I have a Chrysler New Yorker showing up Monday morning that won't shift, it's in failsafe mode which, means it only has second gear and reverse. The guy called about two months ago but never brought it in. Since then he has had the transmission replaced, the solenoid pack replaced and now has put in a new PCM and all of that seems to have made no difference at all. My Vetronix Mastertech will be the tool used since it has the equivalent of the DRBII software. However, I could use my Snap-On Solus Ultra, OTC Genysis, or Hannatech Ultra Scan each of which has varying levels of support for that car if I didn't have the Mastertech. BTW. It's important to point out that each of them excels in different manufacturers that the Mastertech falls short on.


On the Chrysler that's coming in. The first step of the diagnostic approach will be to forget what has already been done and prove what is, and is not working when I see it Monday morning. It will essentially be the exact same routine that would have been used if he hadn't already shot-gunned some $1400 in parts and labor. It doesn't matter what's wrong, nor does it matter if he has actually added additional problems to it. Diagnosing that will be simple using the very same tools and routines that I have shared here a number of times.

Mr_Shiftright

That should be an interesting one. Keep us in the loop.