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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,780
    bluetooth may not have the range--how else can it be done?

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Oh, if hackers can reach Dick Cheney's pacemaker, getting range for a car shouldn't be an issue. :D

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Bluetooth connectivity?
    Meet the Genisys Touch.

    http://otctools.com/genisystouch/

    You have to try it and then compare what it can do to what a real scan tool can do to understand just how badly it falls short of the promises they make about it.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Give it a couple of years and those "real" scan tools will be out of date.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    And a couple after that, the ones that replaced them will be too.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    edited November 2013
    Change is good, and it won't be too long until the "tool" is your phone or nav system/HUD and the software is updated all the time and delivered by the cloud.

    And if you keep pumping up the air suspension in the back of your Lincoln at regular intervals using the "tool", after a while the NSA is going to take notice and send a revenuer out to see if you are bootlegging moonshine.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Still believe in R2R do you? What have they accomplished now that the law has been on the books for more than a year?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    edited November 2013
    No one stopped selling cars in Massachusetts yet did they? The same idea is branching out to "digitial rights" for everything you own.

    Phones will be the big battleground. If I buy a smartphone, why can't I jailbreak it?

    Same argument then applies to the "IP" in your car's ABS sensors, for example.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    So where does it leave this guy if all of the diagnostics are built into the Nav screen? http://answers.edmunds.com/question-My-NAV-screen-radio-died-Subaru-B9-Tribeca-A- ny-idea-why-179549.aspx
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Phones will be the big battleground. If I buy a smartphone, why can't I jailbreak it?

    That's easily solved by only selling you a license to use it (or the software) for a limited period of time, that way you don't own it. (exactly like they have done with the scan tools) So then go ahead and jailbreak it. Then when its time to upgrade or renew they detect that you did whatever to pirate the intellectual property and now you risk getting to face criminal prosecution.

    As far as putting diagnostic systems onboard or into the Navigation systems, are you not seeing reports of accidents from people texting, cell phone usage, and even with operation of the onboard digital radio/navigation systems? Giving people access without experience and training to be technicians would have some of them not repairing systems when a section fails, they will be trying to bypass or eliminate it. SRS systems make for a good example, as long as the conversation stays at this level you can claim that you should be able to do whatever you want to. But just let someone get hurt or killed, and heaven forbid its someone close to you because something wasn't repaired correctly and your story and perspective would change to be at the very least "If only I had". But even if it wasn't someone close to you, if someone got hurt playing with the onboard diagnostics because it was built into the Nav system, and it is there because it was your idea how would you feel about that? This something you have to think about first before you push to hard to get it.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Re the B9 owner, scan tools die too. The solution is for the remote unit to recognize loss of access and send the "self-repair" command to the nav. If that fails, replace the broken unit.

    Your software license example is exactly why there's a push to pass laws allowing people to jailbreak their phone "legally". Otherwise you are tied into one company and it's not affordable to move to one with better rates or better service. Hm, just like getting wedded to the dealer because they are the only ones with the scanner software.

    When radios were first put into cars, the sky was going to fall and people claimed that driving while listening to the radio was unsafe. Several states supposedly refused to register cars with radios. (automobileandamericanlife)

    So, when tooling down the road in your autonomous car, what else are you going to do after filing your nails? May as well play with the nav and see how the knock sensor frequency matches Duran Duran playing in the background.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    When radios were first put into cars, the sky was going to fall and people claimed that driving while listening to the radio was unsafe. Several states supposedly refused to register cars with radios.

    A number of states now have laws banning texting and driving, and for good reason.

    http://www.textinganddrivingsafety.com/texting-and-driving-stats/

    There are numerous accounts of accidents which were attributed to people putting their attention towards the radio, or other infotainment device even before the technology age we are part of, so they weren't far off with their perception.

    So, when tooling down the road in your autonomous car, what else are you going to do after filing your nails?

    OK today's flavor is in support of the idea of autonomous cars. lets see how long it takes before I can find a contradiction to that.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    numerous accounts of accidents

    Sure, but you aren't going to really stop this behavior unless you lock out the gizmos while the car is in motion.

    I happened upon a Ford Focus ad the other day, Wired magazine I think. The ad copy was all about not getting lost thanks to the Nav and the audio stuff. A bit about the fuel economy. Nothing about safety, driving characteristics or horsepower, much less torque. The "infotainment" tech is selling cars.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    The ad copy was all about not getting lost thanks to the Nav and the audio stuff. A bit about the fuel economy. Nothing about safety, driving characteristics or horsepower, much less torque. The "infotainment" tech is selling cars.

    Then when some of this stuff acts up and the car is in the hands of the second or third owner who can't afford to deal with it and it is integral to the vehicles operating platform, what then? People should be asking that question a lot more these days.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Same question applies to head gaskets, transmissions, catalytic converters, ABS sensors, ECUs and all the rest.

    Stuff breaks out of warranty and in case you haven't noticed, it costs a lot to fix cars.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,780
    I think what Doc was referring to is that when the gadgetry breaks down, it's not the loss of one function, as it would be with a catalytic converter or transmission. It could be an electronic rabbit-hole from which the owner might never emerge for weeks, if ever.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    edited November 2013
    You're on the right track, the reality will really come into view when we aren't there to even be able to try and help for any amount of money. Even swaptronics won't help because of the programming requiremenmts. In ortherwords, to try it you must buy it as once programmed the first time and connected to the vehicle it learns specific data that cannot be erased and relearned to another car.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    edited November 2013
    Yep, those interwoven gadget laden Priuses stay in the shop for weeks on end while no one ever has to wait more than 3 hours to diagnose and tear down a transmission.

    Oh yeah, I keep forgetting - the scanner hooked up to the car's ECU tells you the shift solenoid is stuck, so you really may get on your way in 3 hours. Darn those electronics.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,780
    Well it doesn't REALLY tell you that--it tells you that the circuit/system relating to the shift solenoid is in distress.

    The scanner has yet to be invented that tells you exactly what part to replace.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Now if only the average reader realized that is nothing but babble and not an accurate representation.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    The scanner has yet to be invented that tells you exactly what part to replace.

    Just imagine how magic one would have to be if an onboard failure prevents communication with the vehicle.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,780
    When it gets that bad they'll just recycle your car and pro-rate you. Then in a few weeks you'll see your car on Amazon as a "refurbished by manufacturer" unit at a discounted price.

    It'll be sorta kinda like "factory buy back" cars are now, but more respectable.

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    I think it's coming. As is redundancy so if one info path dies, another will pick up the load.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Then in a few weeks you'll see your car on Amazon as a "refurbished by manufacturer" unit at a discounted price.

    I'd love to see the look on some dealers face if they ever proposed that for real. (In otherwords, no way they'd sit still and let that happen)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,780
    If factory direct car sales survives various legal challenges, as Elon Musk of Tesla suggests they might, then you'll see it soon after that....not on Amazon of course, but a factory website that will deliver your refurbished unit to some factory-supported "service only" facility in your area.

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Only in the car biz. We've had two Apple refurb devices and they've been fine.

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    edited November 2013
    "He tinkers at his garage, but his previous inventions were car parts. Seven years ago, he said, employees were imitating a video showing that a cork pushed into an empty bottle can be retrieved by inserting a plastic grocery bag, blowing until it surrounds the cork, and drawing it out."

    Car Mechanic Dreams Up a Tool to Ease Births (NY Times)

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    edited November 2013
    Nice, five for five.

    Okay, one more:

    Auto Repair Goes Virtual With "Car Mechanic Simulator 2014" (Automechanicschools.com)

    This could be bigger than World of Warcraft. :-)

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Once players spend some time in the shoes of an auto mechanic, they may decide to pursue a career in the auto repair industry. If that's the case, they may want to look into attending a postsecondary auto technician program to help develop their skills. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, some employers are reporting difficulty finding auto mechanics with sufficient education and experience.

    Once players really spend time in a mechanics shoes, they will find another career choice. But hey at least they can have fun with the game. The pays about the same but with the game they don't actually have to get their hands dirty too. JMHO
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