A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

thecardoc3

There are a number of different evaporative systems out there, some that trap a small amount of vacuum or pressure (-3" H2O ~ 2"H20) and others that once testing is done allow the tank and cannister to be at atmospheric pressure. The main concern with any fuel that sits too long is the light ends of the fuel (benzene's butane's) evaporate off leaving only the heavier ones behind. Without the parts of the fuel that evaporate easily (aka stale ) the fuel is harder to ignite.

Parasitic losses draining the battery is definitely an issue. Aside from disconnecting the battery, and/or running a tender there are a lot of cars that would need the battery properly recharged (that can often take 8 to 12 hours) once people need to use the cars again.

guitarzan

@thecardoc3 what is going on? Anything to report on the industry?
Like 2008 people have frozen up with regards to new vehicle purchases. Used vehicle prices are out of sight and then there are potential new vehicle shortages due to the microchip supply problem. I would think that this period would be a used car repair boon and that the average vehicle age will have a short term increase?

thecardoc3

The computer chip shortage has been one of the strangest events. We have seen dealer inventory shrink from time to time but there are dealers now that have virtually empty lots.

A Toyota technician that I know talks about how his dealer got numerous PPP loans and when the work in the shop slowed the techs were getting 12 hour a week paychecks. They now only have a third as many technicians as they did two years ago, and he wants out too but hasn't found anything.

There are more of the tech shortage stories than anyone cares to sit down and read. Here are two of them.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-ne-auto-tech-shortage-nationwide-who-will-fix-our-cars-20190809-bm77cet2jfgqdcpe2rekebll6u-story.html
https://www.pilotonline.com/inside-business/vp-ib-mechanic-shortage-1221-20201221-xt2tevasnjaypjyqgq26axk2ey-story.html

When you put those last two paragraphs together with the techs underpaid and leaving the bays while places who need techs can't find anyone capable of and qualified to do the work the problems that I started talking about here some ten years ago have only gotten worse.

On the home front providing training for the shops and techs willing to invest in it has really changed during the last year. My flat bay has essentially turned into an online studio. I have taken the Escape off of the road just short of 370K miles because of corrosion issues and I needed a platform to use for demonstrations for the classes so that is how it will spend it's final years. Even the new car, a Mazda CX-30 has been pressed into that service as I did a parasitic drain video for other owners who raised concerns about a low voltage warning that the cars can generate that does not necessarily mean that the car has a problem. You can watch the video here if you want to. It will also give you an idea of what some of the training classes are starting to look like. When I do a class using Power Point I turn the presentation into the back drop and do it the same way they do the weather on TV. On this one I am using my oscilloscope as the background. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2HtEVoZ1Rs&t=807s

xwesx

The Doc is going high-tech!

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

The Doc is going high-tech!

LOL. Lots of new tricks have been learned this past year. It's a shame it took a pandemic to give us the push to do this. We are all pretty amazed at what we have accomplished and can't help but think that if you had told us that we would be doing this two years ago we wouldn't have believed it.

thecardoc3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RzjeFTRGKE

henryn

The above post reminded me of something that happened about 25 years ago. I took my truck in to an independent service shop which was just down the street from where I lived at the time. Medium sized shop, maybe 2 or 3 mechanics, and there was a kid who looked high school age working there. I’m standing around waiting to talk to someone, they appear quite busy.

Some guy who appears to be in charge starts yelling at the kid, telling him to move an older Mustang which is blocking the door. And he is not being nice, yelling in a rather unpleasant manner. The kid jumps in the Mustang, starts it, throws it in reverse, and starts backing. Wham, straight into another car in the parking lot. Turns out the Mustang has no brakes, zip, zilch, nada, none. So the boss man gets in the kids face and starts yelling and cussing, the poor kid is about to start crying.

I listen to this for about 20 or 30 seconds, then walk over and stand directly in between, facing the boss man, from about 6 inches. I don’t say anything, I don’t do anything, just stare directly into his face. He wises up quickly, shuts up and walks away. I then turned to the kid, and told him he should find a better job, no one should put with that kind of treatment.

thecardoc3

Do computers ever lie?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzcTkW7anms

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

Do computers ever lie?

Determining that systems are misreporting data, I can confidently state that most techs, even many good ones, will never get to this level. Yes, as you informed, techs will do a part swap on the ECU, the tech many times will not even get paid if that vehicle is still in warranty, and the system of owner/tech/customer will go on blissfully ignorant. But at least your students will have a leg up...

thecardoc3

I've talked about this many times over the last ten years. The warnings had gone unheeded for decades before that. Now here we are and there are more articles on Automotive News highlighting the shortage of technicians. There is one that mentions offering a $6000 signing bonus and they got "No Responses" at all. Even if they could solve the pay, benefits , and working condition problems that drive technicians not just from the bays but from the trade it would still be twenty years before they produce the master technicians that they need to deal with the technology in today's cars.

https://www.autonews.com/fixed-ops-journal/crush-repair-work-intensifies-service-technician-shortage

Crush of repair work intensifies service technician shortage
Business is booming at service departments, but the crush has laid bare a vexing and long-percolating problem: a severe shortage of qualified technicians.
August 08, 2021 07:00 PM
Ken Wysocky

At Tom Wood Automotive Group in Indianapolis, Fixed Ops Director Bill Demaree literally takes a foreign approach in his ceaseless search for qualified service technicians: He's recruiting prospects from overseas.

"Technicians are chasing money and getting poached by other dealerships right and left," Demaree told Fixed Ops Journal. "We're all chasing the same people.

"So if everyone is fishing from the same sea, I figured it's time to go deep-sea fishing — cast a net far and wide."

HOW DEALERS CAN SUPPORT EMPLOYEES
Two-thirds of franchised dealers say motivating and retaining quality employees is a challenge. Here are some tips from a recent Cox Automotive staffing study on how to create a supportive work environment.

Make employee satisfaction as important as customer satisfaction.
Provide advancement opportunities.
Improve communication to build trust.
Show appreciation to employees for good work.
Emphasize shared values between the organization and staff.
Improve diversity by hiring more women and members of minority groups.
The two prospects live in Dubai and Switzerland, and Demaree has hired attorneys to help them obtain work visas. The process could take eight to 10 months and cost roughly $10,000. But he says it's a gamble worth taking because technicians are so hard to find stateside.

Service managers nationwide share Demaree's pain. While business is booming at service departments because of pent-up demand, the crush of work also has laid bare a vexing and long-percolating industry problem: a severe shortage of qualified technicians.

In fact, a recent staffing study from Cox Automotive shows that about 60 percent of franchised dealers surveyed plan to hire more technicians this year, while 72 percent say finding/hiring the right employees is a challenge.

Tom Wood Automotive owns 13 auto dealerships and five motorcycle stores that collectively employ 236 technicians. To reach full facility utilization, the group needs 119 more.

"We have one store with 54 service bays and 26 technicians," Demaree notes. "It's never been this bad. Everything we've been talking about for 10 years has finally hit us."

At California-based Hansel Auto Group, Fixed Ops Director Mike Weldon is trying to add 33 technicians to his roster of 148. The company's website vividly reflects the hiring challenge; the first thing visitors see is a large "now hiring" banner ad that shouts in capital letters, "Love Where You Work."

It prominently overshadows links to browse for vehicles at the company's nine dealerships.

"We just put that up. It sends a strong message to consumers that visit our website," Weldon says of the digital recruiting approach.

Chris Coxall, vice president of fixed operations at the 12-store, Colorado-based McDonald Automotive Group, says he's trying to fill 54 technician job openings. It could take a year or more, he estimates.

"But constant recruiting is just part of the job now," he adds.

All three dealership groups use a variety of tools to woo job prospects, including longevity and incentive bonuses, tool allowances, reimbursement for college tuition and relocation expenses, competitive pay, paid vacations and flexible work schedules, such as four 10-hour days at Hansel.

But things such as failed drug tests and bad driving records hamper hiring efforts. Weldon says that given the limited labor pool, he often invites good prospects that fail drug tests to stay clean for 30 days, then get retested. If they're hired, they are subject to random drug testing, he says.

All three fixed ops executives say the best recruiting tool is a great culture that includes defined career paths for technicians.

In the end, Weldon says he tries to turn a negative into a fun challenge.

"I take a positive standpoint," he says.

"This is a great opportunity to be sure you're treating employees right — making sure they have the right resources and training. That's where the biggest payoff is."

thecardoc3

An update on the shortage of qualified automotive technicians. https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/industry-news/press-release/21244435/techforce-foundation-technicians-estimated-to-outpace-supply-by-5-to-1?fbclid=IwAR0hQehmlfuUGj8Gb6OHZlbPJUu2MapKlwbiC9ioegewgoJPiKGnlPpiSCA

andres3

thecardoc3 said:

An update on the shortage of qualified automotive technicians. https://www.vehicleservicepros.com/industry-news/press-release/21244435/techforce-foundation-technicians-estimated-to-outpace-supply-by-5-to-1?fbclid=IwAR0hQehmlfuUGj8Gb6OHZlbPJUu2MapKlwbiC9ioegewgoJPiKGnlPpiSCA

That probably explains why my preferred Audi indy shop doesn't seem at all anxious to start spending 30-35 hours on my S4 replacing my engine even at their 2021 $115/hour CA labor rate. They seem busy enough without it.

xwesx

Yes, there's no surprise that this industry was hit by labor supply issues as much as any other during the last 18 months. Combined with the ongoing shortage and the lack of new vehicles entering the market, that spells disaster (and it's only going to get worse for the next couple years, I expect).

guitarzan

andres3 said:

That probably explains why my preferred Audi indy shop doesn't seem at all anxious to start spending 30-35 hours on my S4 replacing my engine even at their 2021 $115/hour CA labor rate. They seem busy enough without it.

I have spent so much of my life, like most Americans, behind the eight ball financially. Today I am skilled and make a good wage. I can only get 40 hours. If I could get 80 right now I think I would take it, at least short term. I just do not understand it. Everyone acts like they are rich. It makes no sense.

My independent mechanic bucks that. He works from 9 AM to 2 AM. I am going to touch base with him again for motorcycle maintenance as my motorcycle tech just does other things and will not take an appointment. He is the only guy I know who goes out of bounds on this. He repairs anything anytime, no matter the vehicle he never says "no". But there is a wait. He will have the bike for a year if this works out for me.

thecardoc3

andres3 said:

That probably explains why my preferred Audi indy shop doesn't seem at all anxious to start spending 30-35 hours on my S4 replacing my engine even at their 2021 $115/hour CA labor rate. They seem busy enough without it.

That is likely an accurate assessment.

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

Yes, there's no surprise that this industry was hit by labor supply issues as much as any other during the last 18 months. Combined with the ongoing shortage and the lack of new vehicles entering the market, that spells disaster (and it's only going to get worse for the next couple years, I expect).

It's sad and yet somewhat amusing watching the present day management in the dealers as they try to respond to the now undeniable shortage of qualified people. No other trade faces the same never ending learning curve. The rewards for picking up the tools that favor the other careers at just five years into them still make jumping out of this one a logical choice even when one has been at it for more than ten years.

thecardoc3

It's an hour long but they hit a lot of key points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hcV6ck_rsU

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

It's an hour long but they hit a lot of key points.

I watched the entire thing. They do a nice job explaining all of the issues. I do not see any resolution though. In some cases they can get the customer onboard by educating them. But consumers are notoriously cheap and raising rates as they suggest to a level that can sustain the tech will accomplish one thing: Influence consumers to get even fewer repairs and continue on their mindset of saving every penny for the next new car, cutting the vehicle life expectancy even further.

Here is a hint for you protagonists Doc: Get professional financial people like Dave Ramsey onboard. When people here from him, the Financial Samurai, etc. that they are working slaves for their monthly loans, they begin to back off of their destructive mindsets. Hearing it just from the service advisor at the counter would take a thousand years to make an impact. People need to understand the math of what they consider a relatively large amount of repair costs being more beneficial than a new car payment.

Michaell

I just invested several car payments into maintenance and service of our 2015 Outback 3.6R. It’s almost 7 years old, but only has 46,000 miles on it.

Brakes, plugs, alignment, filters, and something called the transmission secondary pressure sensor was leaking and needed to be replaced.

I took the car to a local chain, and was surprised to find out that the warranty is 3 years or 36,000 miles, whichever comes last. Given that we’re driving the car about 6-7k per year, that gives us 5 or 6 years of coverage.

thecardoc3

guitarzan said:

Here is a hint for you protagonists Doc: Get professional financial people like Dave Ramsey onboard. When people here from him, the Financial Samurai, etc. that they are working slaves for their monthly loans, they begin to back off of their destructive mindsets. Hearing it just from the service advisor at the counter would take a thousand years to make an impact. People need to understand the math of what they consider a relatively large amount of repair costs being more beneficial than a new car payment.

For the average technician there is little to no disposable income, the tool truck easily sucks up anything resembling money that other careers would allow someone to invest for the future. Some might say, well then don't spend that much on tools and that has it's own way of stagnating a technicians personal growth.

You are correct though, there are few solutions to this and the ones that are the most obvious get the greatest pushback. "WE" have known this to be a problem for more than thirty years. The needle has moved a little, but no where near enough.

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

For the average technician there is little to no disposable income, the tool truck easily sucks up anything resembling money that other careers would allow someone to invest for the future.

I am talking about bringing the financial professionals into the above discussions and conferences to demonstrate to the consumers to not take out new car loans but to spend the money on repairs and preserve their used cars longer. Those financial guys consider it anathema to take out car loans. Explaining the costs of one job to a consumer is a lesson in futility. Next time around they will be pinching their wallet just the same. Having someone educate them on how better spending habits will help their long-term finances would have a greater impact.

thecardoc3

It would be interesting to see that be explained and then watch the comments.

mjfloyd1

andres3 said:

isellhondas said:

Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!

Trust in your honesty and competency builds faith and value in your recommendations and "appreciation" for money saved.

Without trust, tough to have any "appreciation." One good rule of thumb any tech or shop manager should use is the old "if it was MY car, what would I want done" approach.

I’d think they would do quite a lot to their own car since they would not get charged labor on their own car.

andres3

mjfloyd1 said:

andres3 said:

isellhondas said:

Being a Auto Technician is a tough thing anymore. Trying to save a customer money can easily backfire and isn't usually appreciated. It used to be if a car wouldn't start it was one of two or three things. A miss in the engine was easy to isolate and fix. Those days are LONG gone!

Trust in your honesty and competency builds faith and value in your recommendations and "appreciation" for money saved.

Without trust, tough to have any "appreciation." One good rule of thumb any tech or shop manager should use is the old "if it was MY car, what would I want done" approach.

I’d think they would do quite a lot to their own car since they would not get charged labor on their own car.

Yes, but would they use aftermarket parts to save $$$ on their own car (that's not labor).

thecardoc3

andres3 said:

I’d think they would do quite a lot to their own car since they would not get charged labor on their own car.

Yes, but would they use aftermarket parts to save $$$ on their own car (that's not labor).

That's not a given. Many technicians in order to work on their own cars, still have to have a repair order written and pay labor to the shop as they do their own work.

guitarzan

thecardoc3 said:

andres3 said:

Many technicians in order to work on their own cars, still have to have a repair order written and pay labor to the shop as they do their own work.

Pay the shop to use their own tools and own labor? While they are on their own time and not being paid?

thecardoc3

guitarzan said:

Pay the shop to use their own tools and own labor? While they are on their own time and not being paid?

Yes. That is correct. If they need parts there is likely a program where they pay 10% over the cost even if they are purchased from a parts store.

Without going into a lot of details while on the surface it may seem like greed on the dealer's (and a lot of aftermarket shops too) for a policy like this, certain problems have occurred where the adage "no good deed goes unpunished" applies. Without a repair order if some kind of accident/injury occurred the shops insurance won't give the tech and his vehicle any coverage. It could even lead to the insurance company voiding the business policy.

thecardoc3

While there has been some improvement for technicians the consensus is the trade hasn't hit the bottom yet. Meaning it's going to still get even worse before it starts getting better.

"Upon contacting our dealer we bought it from, we discovered the nearest dealer with a transmission specialist was an hour and a half away."

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/68042/ford/explorer/2021-ford-explorer-issues-quality-is-no-longer-with-ford#latest

guitarzan

Vehicle prices are in many cases above MSRP and that goes for some used trucks! People are paying it. So how many actually have an interest in fixing their older vehicles? I do not suppose hourly rates have any upward pressure at all?

thecardoc3

Parts availability is creating additional problems when it comes to repairing cars/trucks. There are a lot of vehicles just sitting because critical parts (usually control modules) simply aren't available. One of the most popular classes these days is learning how to repair these modules but it's going to be a while before there enough techs doing it to make a difference.

As far as shop labor rates go there is some upward movement but that is primarily aimed at keeping the businesses afloat the technicians for the most part are not seeing any of the increases. New car sales have dropped drastically because of parts supply chain issues. I know one Ford dealer that has two F-150's on the lot and one Explorer that is on a sales hold because of a recall. From there they have a few used vehicles but almost no sales traffic.

andres3

My preferred shop went from 115 to 130/hour. Still far better than Stealerships.

roadburner

My BMW dealer has a tech shortage right now. Patience is a necessity.

thecardoc3

Tesla.

Just this morning an announcement was made that Tesla is looking to independent shops and technicians to help service their vehicles. The aftermarket service information site is up and running and once a technician is registered there is no cost at this time for access.

Tesla has even released scan tool support. It's a bit pricy considering that there is only 30-day and 365-day subscriptions. That's a cost that has to be passed onto any owner that would like to have an independent shop service their car. Now if only parts were easier to acquire.

guitarzan

My small engine guy retired or he would have taken care of this. I took an old (80'S?) McLane edger to a prominent local equipment repair shop. The clerk was nice and suggested that "They may not be able to get parts." The tech came out, said, "NOPE" and turned and walked the other way. Great disposition...

The engine starts right up and runs a few seconds then instantly dies. While I have no idea how to do it, I think that the jet or diaphragm or such is clogged and requires a cleaning.

It turns out that a relative is excited to work on it. Apparently this engine was in his go-cart, yard equipment, everything back in the day. He suggested that the shop has nobody who knows how this this works but they only know how to swap parts. I am thinking that "parts" means "carburetor", and only if they had it available, they would bolt on a brand new one.

I would gladly pay a couple hundred bucks for a full maintenance given that the new McLanes are $500-$900. I am not cheap. I got lucky and am actually going to get such for free. And, one more useful device will not end up in a landfill.

thecardoc3

I recommend proceed to this link with caution. When you see the prices for tune-up kits and carbs you might fall down. https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=mclane+edger+parts+801-3.5rp+carburetor&crid=D6EYPUJCZ5FX&sprefix=mclane+edger+parts,aps,150&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_3_18

xwesx

guitarzan said:

I would gladly pay a couple hundred bucks for a full maintenance given that the new McLanes are $500-$900. I am not cheap. I got lucky and am actually going to get such for free. And, one more useful device will not end up in a landfill.

I think you got lucky with the tech at the shop as well, given that he must not have had a clue what he was doing if he was afraid of tackling a classic small engine.

guitarzan

I think you got lucky with the tech at the shop as well, given that he must not have had a clue what he was doing if he was afraid of tackling a classic small engine.

One would think.

This is one of the older, renowned shops and among few repair shops left in the area. The clerk up front is no youngster, and quickly rejected the job but merely called the silver-haired tech to verify that no one there will touch it.

thecardoc3

So this morning I find myself just a few miles outside of Watkins Glen. No I'm not here to do anything at the track, I ended up traveling here to help a shop/technician with a difficult diagnostic issue. They and the local dealer had been trying to diagnose and repair this truck for the better part of this past year. ( 2016 Ford F550 6.8l V-10)

The technician had emailed me for help about a month ago and I got several other instructors to take a little time and see if they could help him make some progress. The fact that they weren't able to guide him to an answer suggested there was a detail somewhere in the information that just wasn't being observed and shared. One of the things that we were able to prove from a distance is that the engine didn't have a mechanical issue, all of the cylinders were pumping air evenly and correctly. That means the problem had to be with fuel and or spark but that was where they had already done just about everything you can imagine and failed to make a difference. That left only one other choice, someone had to go there and look at this ourselves so here I am.

The vehicle was reported to have the check engine light on, and at various times during every trip it would start flashing which indicates a catalyst damaging misfire is occurring. There have been several catalysts installed which this truck then killed due to overheating the catalyst during the last year. This 250K+ mile truck had an engine installed a couple years ago. The local dealer which after doing well over $1000 worth of work trying and failing to fix the misfiring said that the engine had to be bad, but couldn't say exactly how or why. I got here Friday evening and started by taking this for a ride with my scan tool connected. The first thing I noticed is it felt very underpowered for a 6.8l V10. The fact that this vehicle was still loaded didn't help with that observation but at least I was looking at it the exact same way that it is normally used. The one thing that I was sure of however is that I could not feel any misfiring, even though the check engine light was flashing. That was one of the pieces of information that we felt was never relayed accurately, could they really feel a misfire or not? By not feeling anything and looking at advanced data in the scan tool including the Mode #06 misfire data which was failing to count misfires attributable to any specific cylinders, but counting them in a way that allowed the system to set P0300 and P0316 led me to ask myself an important diagnostic question, and that is. "What exactly from the PCM's perspective is a misfire and how does it measure it?"

The answer to that is the software in the PCM measures the crankshafts speed via the crankshaft position sensor. The sensor has 40 teeth, with two missing for a synchronization signal. The PCM should see the crankshaft accelerate between 20 degrees crank after TDC and 120 degrees crank after TDC for each cylinder. If the crankshaft doesn't accelerate FOR ANY reason during that time that amounts to a misfire. That's why things like bad U-joints, failing AC compressors or clutch pulleys (among others) can cause a PCM to falsely report misfires. Putting this all together what I needed to do is look very closely at the crankshaft position sensor signal and see if I could identify a pattern that would point me in the direction of the real cause of the problem. The attached capture screenshot has cylinder #1 ignition command in red for a sync pulse. The crankshaft position sensor signal is in blue and while the amplitude of the signal moves around a bit that isn't uncommon to see and actually isn't the problem this time, but the amplitude variation could be used to see if there was a pattern that could be associated to some kind of a driveline issue like a bad U-joint. Looking at multiple captures of the signal like this there was no discernable pattern that could be associated to an outside source. The dark and light blue background are 10 partitions that allow us to see each cylinder's contribution in the firing order.

The next thing that could be checked really relies on the power of testing this way. Taking the PICOscope and using a math channel to measure the frequency of the crankshaft signal we can look for the misfiring just like the PCM software does. This measurement was captured with the check engine light flashing at 60mph and no misfiring being felt. The frequency variation that was measured is showing the crankshaft speeding up and slowing down in a way that just isn't physically possible even with multiple cylinders actually misfiring.



The diagnosis? The pick-up ring which is in-between the timing gears and the crankshaft is loose (this was confirmed visually) and rocking forward and backward changing the timing of the sensor pulses that the computer uses to measure the crankshaft speed and calculate ignition timing. That explains not only the false misfire counts, but the loss of power because the ignition timing would all over the place, but that's not something that is easily measured at 60mph.....

The best part of all of this was working with the technician both remotely and then when no other way helped, coming out here and guiding him to the answer. I had already seen the math channel showing the noise as we both worked through the information but didn't just hand him the final answer. I had brought one of our training class manuals which explains how to create the custom math channels and then went to lunch while he continued to work and taught himself how to edit the frequency graph which revealed the impossible variation of the crankshaft speed. Once he had that missing detail, then he had to figure out how to prove it and he tried to do that by removing the crank sensor and using his bore scope to watch the pickup while he tried to move it on the crankshaft with a small screw driver. He was able to move that pickup a full tooth which would be some eight degrees of crank rotation and he had the answer to what is wrong with the truck.

The next questions to be asked is how did this come to be? Was it a fault from the original build of the replacement engine? Was it from something that happened while this has been in service? Those are questions that while they may want to know, it's possible they may never get the answer to them. This technician might now go through the rest of his career and never see this exact failure ever again. The best we can hope for is that he retains the lessons learned, and expands his ability to make observations and from there test the right things for the right reasons. For me and especially in writing this here I can envision a few here reading through this and having a mixed bag of reactions, and then it will be forgotten. That's a mechanic's life.

guitarzan

@thecardoc3 Had the techs ever had the pick-up ring exposed throughout their repair attemps, where they could have physically inspected it just because they were there? Or was it a project to unveil it only after it was succinctly identified? This to me, observation of everything available, sometimes speaks to the actual need of such advanced troubleshooting.

thecardoc3

The ring is only visible with the front timing cover removed. The dealer replaced the crankshaft position sensor when they also put ignition coils and spark plugs in and of course that didn't solve the problem. This was only something to inspect once the origin of the fault was identified, or else looked at on a whim.

xwesx

Wow. That's some detailed analysis! All for something as seemingly simple as a pick-up ring. I like your thought process near the start, "What, exactly, from the PCM's perspective is a misfire and how does it measure it?"

thecardoc3

xwesx said:

I like your thought process near the start, "What, exactly, from the PCM's perspective is a misfire and how does it measure it?"

I can't claim that as mine, but we have been teaching it almost since OBDII requirements for the engine controller to detect and report misfires was introduced. The only thing that is relatively new is for us to have our own way to look at the input signal the same way that the PCM does. We have many examples of vehicle computers "lying" to us in scan data and with how some tests are run that can result in a system falsely setting a code. This is an example of how the computer should have been able to set a different code related to the crankshaft sensor signal being erratic instead of it reporting a misfire that didn't exist. What also got confusing for technicians is the fact that the catalysts getting overheated and ruined would be consistent with a misfire occurring. This failure BTW was anything but simple.

xwesx

thecardoc3 said:

This failure BTW was anything but simple.

Oh, man. That came through Loud and Clear in the description you shared! Length aside, a phantom issue that they've been trying to diagnose for the "better part of a year?!" Yeah, that's not simple.

Once you and the technician were able to work on it together in person, how long did it take to sort it out (both diagnose and repair)?

thecardoc3

To figure the problem out and prove it was roughly about five hours.
Two hours Friday evening with the truck which let me gather baseline information that I needed in order to put a testing plan together back at the hotel room that night.

Then on Saturday it was make all of the connections that we needed to employ the scope which took one road test of about six miles. Then once back at the shop the time was spent analyzing the test data and manipulating it with the scope to display the fault while explaining the routine for the technician, the shop owner and the vehicle owner.

From there it was just a matter of accessing the sensor which required getting the AC compressor out of the way and then get the borescope in place to try and prove that the ring was in fact loose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ebgpJv28I

BTW this is not repaired yet. It's now going to be one of those who pays for this? Since this is a remanufactured engine that is about two years old and still under warranty.

thecardoc3

Seeing them admit that there really is a problem is nice. Seeing that they still don't have a clue about how to fix it nor how long it will take is par for the course.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GGVfrc6eNQ

roadburner

In April I brought the X1 to my dealer for its annual oil service(my wife drives it less than 9k miles per year). A leaking valve cover gasket was noted so I had the dealer replace it. Fast forward to last month when my wife once again noticed a burning oil smell. I returned to the dealer as the repair had a 24 month warranty. I soon received a call informing me that the new leak was caused by an almost imperceptible crack in the plastic valve cover- but that the service writer and the service manager had decided that that if I paid for the new valve cover the dealer would not charge me for labor or a new gasket set.
You can't argue with that.

thecardoc3

2022 is coming to a close, and while there are some bright spots where changes are occurring these two articles are painting a less than perfect picture. The first one actually references the second one so I linked both of them here along with a specific quote from each of them. This is the first time I have seen someone put a number like this on how bad it's getting. Think about what this really means for the next decade or two when they say that right now demand is outpacing supply on a 5 to 1 scale.

The second article is actually the source of the quote from the first article, but the second article has another section that needs scrutinized. Advancement opportunities.

If a technician moves from the service floor to become a service writer or to any other position how is that an advancement opportunity? There are many service writers and service managers who have never done any vehicle repairs, it's a different job altogether than being a technician. The reality is a tech leaving the bays for any reason is one more that needs to be replaced in the bays which actually works against having that kind of career advancement. Ironically, the better the tech is at actually repairing cars, the less likely those kinds of doors are to open for him/her. Which leads to the obvious answer that is simple to say but making it happen is going to be anything but simple. The tech's career advancement and status needs to be one that rewards the individual for staying in the bays and continuing to grow in knowledge and skills through-out their entire career. The writers and managers are not the most important people in the shop, the seasoned technicians are, but they don't get to enjoy the kind of status that reflects it. In essence the career is still upside down, and its going to keep losing people and stay that way until the master technicians have positions that would make becoming a writer or a manager a step down.


https://chriscollinsinc.com/sdr/auto-tech-shortage/

"What’s Driving The Auto Tech Shortage?
Multiple factors relevant to technicians currently in the trade contribute to the worsening auto tech shortage. Meanwhile, changes in our youth’s mindset are driving this scarcity at a high speed. Research indicates that the demand for auto techs will outpace supply on a 5 to 1 scale."

https://wrenchway.com/blog/why-is-there-a-shortage-of-technicians/

"The vast majority of new and seasoned technicians see little to no future opportunity for advancement beyond a service writer or service manager position. Even technicians who make it to a writer or manager position, they rarely receive the training, coaching, and feedback to become effective at those roles. Over 90% of the service managers I have worked with over the years were completely unprepared for that position when they were promoted from being a technician."

imidazol97

Had new tires put on. Car was aligned at chevy dealer 1 year ago with new strut installation. The tire store always checks alignment, hoping to find another $100 charge to align a car. Mine has hit no curbs nor potholes since alignment.

This printout shows toe is okay at 0.23 degree. But it shows individual wheels are slightly to the right of the forward line of the rear and of the car.

Does it need to be aligned again?

thecardoc3

The printout shows the steering wheel turned slightly to the right.

Is the wheel parallel with the dash while going straight down the highway?

OR.

Is the wheel tipped slightly to the left when going straight down the highway?

That being said, look at the rear settings. Just getting it into the green is not always good enough.
Cambers should Ideally be within .25 degrees of each other. If the rear is set to the ideal specifications then the front would need to be reset since the thrust angle would change.

I can't help but think I saw this exact printout somewhere else recently. Hmmmm

imidazol97

Steering wheel is, and has been since alignment with new struts, perfectly flat with the dash. No pull or drifts other than for the crowning common on Ohio backroads adn highways. That's why I doubted it needed attention when the actual toe amount is 0.20 deg. and the salesman brought it out to show me with the several red blocks. He never mentioned that the actual toe was perfect; he only pointed at the red blocks for individual front tires relative to the rear.

The "old" tires were Michelin Defender H&T and showed no wear problems at 66K mi and 20-25 of that since alignment (car has 110K mi). They were at 6/32".

I also looked at the rear tracking over the front tracks since it's rainy today by driving through an underpass and going back to see if the rear tires are not following the front. They were following with the rears going over the fronts. The right rear may have been off 1/2 inch or so. But I haven't checked to see if the front and rear track widths are the same on this car.