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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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Comments

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,919
    There has always been pressure to do the job wrong.

    Like the unscrupulous people who show someone their dipstick and say it must be changed because it's black? Or worse, the engine must be flushed. I don't hear too many tales of the grease on the shock absorbers any more.

    See, you're not only fighting consumer perceptions, you're also having to read about how crooks in your business harm your reputation.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    See, you're not only fighting consumer perceptions, you're also having to read about how crooks in your business harm your reputation

    So how does this pertain to the debate taking place? Does this somehow make the facts that I have written less trustworthy? You have Ron's story linked here, and you have information from the Valvoline page that you linked to. Now are they giving the consumers the whole story or not? If not, why not?
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,919
    edited February 2013
    Which debate? Consumers have to buy oil that only has the manufacturer's label on it?

    Or you comment that your oil was "clear", as if that meant something?

    (btw, is your shop closed today? :shades: ).
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Like the unscrupulous people who show someone their dipstick and say it must be changed because it's black? Or worse, the engine must be flushed.

    Unscrupulous. Nice word. Exactly who created and sold those engine flush machines and when did Edmunds ever do a story on how they and their use was presented as real training for the shops and technicians?

    Is there never a time to use such a piece of equipment? Does it have no value at all? (FWIW, I don't own one)

    You really need to follow through with the SynPower 5W30 MST issue as I outlined. You wouldn't want to appear to be unscrupulous would you?
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,919
    edited February 2013
    No thanks, I just want to be able to buy jugs off the shelf at Walmart without having to take my owner's manual and a magnifying glass into the store to read the labels.

    If I wanted to spend years talking about the minutia of motor oil, I could have been hanging out in Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 all this time.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    No thanks, I just want to be able to buy jugs off the shelf at Walmart without having to take my owner's manual and a magnifying glass into the store to read the labels.

    Perfect, then you should be praising GM for the dexos1 licensing. You only need to look at the front of the bottle and you are assured to be purchasing the correct product. (Or not)

    The exercise is critical to properly explain the differences in the oil products to the consumers. They can walk in the door and buy Valvoline SynPower 5W30, but is it the North American version, or is it the European one. They are completely different products. Both are good products, and will serve the consumers well but only if they know how to choose the one that matches their car. Your refusal to assit the consumer in this matter is puzzling. BTW, where is Ron? Maybe he will explain it. Unless of course someone has something to hide.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Nope, it's a blessing to be able to type at some 2000wph.

    The list of what I have already completed today includes an 5000 mile service on a 2000 Accord, replaced and programmed a PCM on a 2001 Taurus, brake inspection on another Honda, it needs the front pads and the rotors machined. Plus the LH engine mount on a silverado 4WD 8.1l.

    Which debate? Consumers have to buy oil that only has the manufacturer's label on it

    Nope, that is distorting the issue. Consumers need to buy the products for their cars that meet the manufactures specifications. The problem is "How do they know for sure which products do, and which ones do not meet the specs for their car" Is there a reason why you repeatedly have to try and attempt to misrepresent the real issue?

    I really don't want to be a pr!(& here, but its time that consumers, and any shops/techs who may wander through here are told what they really need to know, and not the polished version one sided version that they have been getting fed. This also works for things like the engine flush. It takes a lot of nerve to bash the shops who made the investment, because they thought they were doing right by their customers, only to find out in a back handed way that it was not a good choice. Why didn't Edmunds address the issue in a way that might have prevented some of these shops from buying the machine in the first place? They (you) have no problem assailing it but you never tried to prevent the idea from catching on. What was that word you used, "Unscrup...."???

    BTW I just got a call from another shop for a SKIM issue on a Chrysler. I'll be hitting the road for an hour or so to address it for them. See if Ron can post and explain those Euro specs and how one oil meets all of them before I have to.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,919
    Perfect, then you should be praising GM for the extra cost of the dexos1 licensing.

    There, fixed it for you. :-)

    (Ron is in the home office a couple of thousand miles away locked away behind the editorial firewall. Don't recall ever meeting him).
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Perfect, then you should be praising GM for the extra cost of the dexos1 licensing

    I have purchased a dexos1 licensed product by the case, on sale, under $4.00 a quart. I bought 2 cases, so it wasn't even like I had to buy a pallet of the stuff to get that price.
  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,919
    edited February 2013
    SuperTech runs around $12 for 5 quarts last I checked. This deal ends today, but you can get 5 quarts of Quaker State and a filter for $7 after rebate. (link)

    Too bad you can only use it for green Kias on Tuesdays. :P
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    06 CRV
    rt rear rotor/hub/wheel bearing assembly

    Can a seizing (or reluctant to return after brake application) caliper cause a rotor to run warm enough to smell a bit hot, can that cook enough grease out of the way to cause a WB to fail..in about 600 miles over a couple months (10 mi /day at 35 mph and 50 mile trips at 50 mph once a week) or so of that condition?

    This generation of CRV are known to have troublesome rear brakes apparently.

    I have heard strange sounds in the past of a WB going in..well a few cars over the years but one that was the most elusive to determine which end and side was the culprit, was an old Samurai (live axles on frame). Anyway, pretty sure this noise is coming from the suspect right rotor (rubbing, altho is not hot anymore, only gets warm) and the noise is not nearly as discernible/loud now. This is why I can't be sure the WB was affected by this initially hot rotor. I intend to buy a pair of new rear rotors (they incorporate a Parking brake drum also) in any event, and possibly a new caliper if I can't get the new aftermkt pads not grd down enough to fit enough to not drag. The cast positioning tabs had to be grd in order to fit. yes, should have bought OEM.

    The reason I would like an opinion on this is if the WB is shot, it is fairly expensive, as the entire assembly including all suspension and trailing/originating links have to come out. It is AWD. It also houses the stability control sensor pickups. I don't want to get into the WB if you think that a hot rotor is unlikely responsible for causing the WB to go. Car has only 55k miles on it. And rarely has anyone in back seat or loaded heavy.

    Even when it got fairly hot, I could put my hand (end of my fingers reached in) on the centre hub part. But could not do that on the rotor itself, was too hot to touch safely. I put a laser Class 2 temp gauge on the hub one day when I got home but forget what the reading was..I think the hub was about 110 and the rotor was 125 or so..

    I wish I had someone who could hang out the window in the back seat and listen.
    So to sum up:

    - Any tips on discerning a WB sound going, vs a rubbing pads on the rotor?

    - Could that hot rotor take out the WB's? Or is 55k miles and a bad WB not unheard of on these CRV's?

    I know WB often don't last nearly as long as they used to as pursued weight savings have made them all smaller and lighter rotors and hubs/WB etc to save weight.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Needless to say, it doesn't meet the specs for my Mustang, my Escape, nor my flat bed. It would be OK for my Sundance and my Ranger. Whether its supposed to meet the specs or not it wouldn't find its way into my Explorer, no way, no how.
  • 125 isn't very hot. I've seen rotors at the track glowing red hot in the dark and they didn't affect wheel bearings.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    I hope I am not misleading by mentioning that temp, cuz I really can't remember, but feel pretty sure if it was much more than that I would have recalled better..

    I have seen red rotors on bikes, but as with I suspect the race cars, I think the rotors must be a lot farther away from the WB than they are on this CRV. On the bikes of course they are nowhere near the hub which houses the WB's, sitting right out in the open outboard of the hub. It just seems to me that heat radiates inward too right? It has no bias that I am aware of. You know, I haven't had these rotors off...but I bet they house the WB too right? Often Japanese types that incorporate the parking brake drum all as one unit.

    I hope you are right, shiftright. So many noises such as this are hard to pinpoint..this was like a low-pitched rubbling sound and not sure if rubbing pads could make this sound or not. I tired weaving in my lane to try to see if the noise frequency changed, and it did but then started to sound like it was the brakes.

    Looks like I am going to have to pull the entire assembly to be sure. Hope I don't need a torch cuz all I have is propane and that rarely is enough when oxy/acet is the order of the day. And it has been -20- -30 here lately. This is why I am considering a 2nd spare fuel sipper. In the end I think would offset the insurance and rest of assoc costs of running an extra vehicle, as I need a light tower and I need AWD for winter. Be great if I had a spare car and then could work on this when it warms up more. Just can't do it when it is this cold.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,443
    edited February 2013
    BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:

    Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30

    Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40

    Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30

    Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30


    Speaking just for myself, the only oil I've ever been able to find on a store shelf on that list was the Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40.

    I've found similar labeled oil, but not exact matches.

    In my case, I use official BMW Castrol oil purchased from the dealer in my BMW products. I can buy it for roughly the same price ($6.25/quart), and the dealership is only 8 miles from my house.

    To me, it seems like a no brainier to do it that way, especially since I also buy the filter from the dealership.
  • no, don't work under adverse conditions--that often leads to job less than well done.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,521
    Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30

    Yep, notice it specifies the European formula, the Mobil 1 actually does as well and so does the Pennzoil.

    Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40

    Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30


    So that leaves Valvoline. You'll notice it listed as SynPower MST on the link Steve provided and that is correct, that Valvoline is approved by BMW. But is the one that you find in the parts store the one that is approved, or is it the North American version that is not?

    Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30


    Hmmm
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,443
    edited February 2013
    All I can say is that, in my limited effort to find BMW approved alternatives, the only one that was a complete match (with the appropriate LL blah blah blah specifications was the Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40. (I'm not an oil expert, but I can match up letters and numbers from a label to a document denoting required parameters and specifications.)

    I did find similar Pennzoil and Valvoline offerings, but as I recall, they didn't meet the BMW specifications and requirements.

    Since I could buy the preferred BMW Castrol lube directly from a nearby dealer at a comparable price, I ceased looking at alternatives. I took the path of least resistance.
  • kyfdx%40Edmundskyfdx%40Edmunds Posts: 25,869
    edited February 2013
    Is this the list you found?

    http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

    Is the Valvoline SynPower 5W30 listed the same one that you will find on the parts store shelf?


    That was the list, and I did buy the Valvoline... Is it the same one? You tell me? ;)

    Moderator - Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,443
    edited February 2013
    That was the list, and I did buy the Valvoline... Is it the same one? You tell me?

    Hard to say, but I would say it isn't. Check out the link below.

    http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower.pdf

    Page one is the spec sheet for the ILSAC grades (aimed at the NA market), and page two is for non ILSAC grades (aimed at the European market). I'm guessing what you saw/bought was the oil spec'ed out on page one, and not the oil spec'ed out on page two. Only the oil spec'ed out on page two has the BMW LL-01 LL-04 designation.
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