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A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    While we were out of state, a fellow called to see if I could look at the headlights on his 97 Eldorado. We always forward calls from the shop to my cell, that way I’m available to my customers anytime they need me. Someday I’ll let you know what that get’s to be like. He explained that he and several others have already looked at this trying to figure it out and they haven’t had any success at all. He bought and replaced all of the bulbs and that didn’t help and trying to follow the wiring schematic in his Haynes book he couldn’t make any sense of the circuit at all.

    We do our diagnostics by selling blocks of time and I do any and all testing required in that period of time. In some cases we sell an hour, and if the car is diagnosed quickly we reduce the fee appropriately. In others we sell the hour and I occasionally go over that time if I am just about to arrive at the answer. We don’t charge extra when we go over like that, because we stick to the agreed price. There are times that we have to get more time if a problem turns out to be really complicated, you never really know what you are up against until you complete the diagnostics. The customer always has the choice about whether to stop or continue. The biggest mistake anyone ever makes is to assume they have seen a particular problem before, or assume that the problem someone else’s car had is the same since the symptom was similar, as in this case no headlights.

    He didn’t want to agree to an hours’ worth of time, so we set the limit at half an hour and he wanted to wait for the car. Our shop doesn’t have a fancy waiting room, every dime is spent on the things we need for the cars. That means he can watch every step that is taken and in this case he got to see some things that he never knew ever went on.

    The first step of any diagnosis is to confirm the symptom and I found the parking lights and the daytime running lights worked, but the headlights were inoperative, even with the flash to pass position of the dimmer switch. Had the high beams worked in that position, it would have helped me narrow down some of the testing. The next steps take place simultaneously, between attaching the TechII scan tool and printing out the schematic the real work was about to begin.

    From the schematic;
    There is a parking light relay that is controlled by the headlight switch, it sends power to the parking lights of course, and it also powers up the three relays in the under hood power distribution center.

    The high beam, low beam relays are ground controlled by the body computer, the main headlight relay is ground controlled by the headlight switch, or the body computer or the instrument cluster, all three components can command that relay on. With the scan tool, confirming operation of the three relays was easy using the bi-directional commands. The high beam and low beam relays were being commanded as confirmed by the audible click they would make. The headlight relay was not turning on/off with the headlight switch or through the BCM with the scan tool.

    At that point a little more explanation of the wiring is in order. All three relays get the same power to allow them to be turned on, but the ground circuits for them are all different. Since the headlight relay itself had three possible ways to be turned on, and it shared the same power to it that the other two did, that meant the problem was as easy as just a failed relay, or the wire from the under hood power center to the interior of the car had failed. This is a yellow wire and it goes to pin C of the headlight switch, but again there is a splice in the harness and it also goes to the instrument cluster as well as the BCM. So the next step of the diagnostics is to pull the relay and re-install it on top of a pedestal that allows testing connections. In doing that both powers to it were easily confirmed. The next step was to check the ground control circuit and that is easily done with an ordinary test light. When I touched the ground control circuit, the relay clicked and the headlights came on.

    By this time the customer was standing right beside the car. I demonstrated that with the test light commanding the headlight realy on, I could then control the high beam, and the low beam from both inside the car, and with the scan tool. I explained that there was still more work to be done in the way of possibly locating the actual location of the damaged wire, or it could simply be bypassed. However his agreed half an hour’s time was up and we knew that the yellow wire in the harness was the problem.

    The only thing left now was for him to agree to have me actually fix the problem or not.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    edited March 2013
    Beyond the limitations of my writing skills, :blush: do you know what's wrong with that story? To get him to bring the car in, we had to cut our pricing below what it costs to provide that service. It's more than fair for me to say that while some who have been taking part in this forum may well have been able to come to the solution on that vehicle's problem, they are unlikely to have the tools and skills to do that in under half an hour. That story represents what the job as a technician is really like, day in and day out. It doesn't matter what the actual failure on the car is, with a solid routine a technician can go straight at the problem by being able to determine what is working, to what is not.

    Now can you imagine having to complete that diagnosis in under eighteen minutes? (.3hr) Can you imagine a system that expects the the technicians to complete every diagnosis in that amount of time?

    Could you do that? Or better said, would you? Now keep in mind, when that story ended, I knew there was an open circuit in that relay's command, specifically the yellow wire. What I didn't know is where that wire was open. It easily could have been the splice under the dash which would have been the worst case scenario because that meant it couldn't be addressed by easily running a replacement wire. (That was the final repair BTW)

    To achieve great customer service, there are some demands that have to be met first. You must have trained, competent people to do the work and ultimately that means that they have to be fairly compensated. Our trade's tradition of rewarding fast work actually pays the techs better to do brakes and transmission flushes than it does to figure out a problem like that Cadillac presented with. When its discovered that a problem is more than a common failure often the shops if they can sell the time will pay a technician straight time for the diagnostics. Meanwhile, a technician doing much simpler work is making 1.5-2 times the hours for that same real clock time.

    I'll go into more of the details in a little while, but this is one of Newtons laws applied to business. For every action there is a reaction, and if the pay plan fails to reward techs for learning how to take on the more difficult work, the reaction of course is they won't do it. If you try to force them, they eventually simply quit being technicians and go make a living doing something else. This has been going on for decades and is the real cause of many consumer frustrations. It will take consumers to change this but that's going to be even harder than getting them to buy the correct oil for their car. JMHO :D
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    Why do you take on work like this? You're good enough to cherry pick your jobs and surely you have enough other work that you can turn down those who don't want to pay for the diagnostics, much less pay to actually fix their car.

    Your first customer should be yourself.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    some who have been taking part in this forum may well have been able to come to the solution on that vehicle's problem, they are unlikely to have the tools and skills to do that in under half an hour.

    True and true.

    Now can you imagine having to complete that diagnosis in under eighteen minutes? (.3hr) Can you imagine a system that expects the the technicians to complete every diagnosis in that amount of time?

    No. Surely some diagnoses allows for more than .3hr? Too many things on a car are simply not equal in design complexity nor execution. Or are these tiered .3 hr blocks? Pay for 18 min. troubleshooting for stage 1, then pay another 18 min for into stage 2 etc?

    if the pay plan fails to reward techs for learning how to take on the more difficult work, the reaction of course is they won't do it. If you try to force them, they eventually simply quit being technicians and go make a living doing something else.

    If this is so, then why did you have to do this below? You would think that competent techs willing to do the diagnoses that almost always go over .3 hr would be in demand and customers lined up taking a number to be next.

    To get him to bring the car in, we had to cut our pricing below what it costs to provide that service.

    Regarding my rear wheel bearing on the CRV..I was able to get it to be very noticeable when weaving. It is easier to make the symptom reveal itself the longer it sits between drives. Last time, it sat for about a week or so. If I weave hard right I get one pitch of sound, and a bit louder pitch if I weave hard left. What I don't know yet is if the caliper is free to slide to left and right of rotor centre. If it is, then the fact that I am getting enough lateral wheel movement to have the rotors rubbing on the pads when weaving, would for sure point to a bad wheel bearing, correct?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Great minds..I was thinking the same but you beat me to it..I'm gonna be interested to hear doc's response.

    And he does sound extra competent. I wish to hell I could have him diagnose my WB. I think that one probably would easily fall into the .3 hr bracket. A 2 min drive would be enough. Probably about 10 min from the time you drive in and park, you tell him what it's doing, he gets a seat cover and belts up and off he goes.

    Btw doc. What would you charge time-wise (and parts if you know, but don't invest time looking them up for me) to replace a right rear wheel bearing on an AWD 06 CRV?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    When I first read this story, I was reminded of a really good All In The Family episode..but weren't they ALL really good? No such thing as a bad one, IMO...one of the greatest 30 min television comedies of all time..

    Anyway..in this one, Archie had refrigerator problems..Archie had a tech in to diagnose the problem..paid the tech his fee and off he went.. Michael said to Archie.."you're crazy, you had the guy here, paid him to tell you what was wrong, but now you still have a busted fridge!!"

    Archie looks at him and tells him he's (Michael's) the crazy one..for only 15 bucks he found out what the bad wire was and then can fix it himself! So the next few frames of the show show Archie practically electrocuting himself when he touches that bad wire to the wrong thing and leaving the studio in darkness.. lol..
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    I'm gonna be interested to hear doc's response.

    I think he just likes helping people and solving problems. Need to get him to give away more free time over in Edmunds Answers. :shades:

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    I wish to hell I could have him diagnose my WB. I think that one probably would easily fall into the .3 hr bracket. A 2 min drive would be enough. Probably about 10 min from the time you drive in and park, you tell him what it's doing, he gets a seat cover and belts up and off he goes.

    While it's very likely that I could tell what the sound is from experience, I also look for every possible way to leverage my way to the correct solution the first time. So I own one of these.

    http://compare.ebay.com/like/270255531658?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var- =sbar

    In the future this tool will be even more important as my hearing continues to fail. That's another cost of being a mechanic/technician my whole life.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    Why do you take on work like this?

    Its just part of what we(I) do.

    You're good enough to cherry pick your jobs and surely you have enough other work that you can turn down those who don't want to pay for the diagnostics, much less pay to actually fix their car.


    How would you react as a consumer if you were told that my shop is the place to go with the problem your vehicle is presenting, and I turned you away at the door? When I see the phrase "cherry pick" I can't help but see that as selfish and greedy. Could I do nothing but the easier work? Sure, and I could probably turn two-three times billable hours VS clock hours today if I did. But don't we have too many already doing that? (aka Chain Stores etc.)

    Your first customer should be yourself.

    We have never been allowed to put ourselves first. That's one of the things that have driven so many potentially great techs from the trade.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    If you don't take of yourself first (including getting paid for the work you do), you won't be able to help anyone.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    No. Surely some diagnoses allows for more than .3hr? Too many things on a car are simply not equal in design complexity nor execution. Or are these tiered .3 hr blocks? Pay for 18 min. troubleshooting for stage 1, then pay another 18 min for into stage 2 etc?

    While its possible to get time for an abnormal diagnostic condition, the suggestion that you only need to get that because you aren't good enough at your job is bound to surface at some point. Meanwhile there will be people around you making bonuses on their efforts, doing easier work. Look at this following example of a vehicle problem.

    James A. a GM technician posted this on one of the forums I belong to a while back. This is edited down to the essential information from a technicians POV.

    2009 Silverado, 28,000 miles, customer reports that once a
    week or so, while driving down the road, the ABS light comes
    on and stays on. At the exact time the light comes on, the
    door locks (although already locked) try to lock and the
    fuel gauge drops to empty while the low fuel light flashes
    on. These symptoms occur for about 2 seconds. The ABS light
    goes out after cycling the key. No other anomalies are
    noted.

    Scanning all control module systems, C0561 71 and C0055 00
    are set in history in the EBCM. All other modules are clear.
    The 561 is set for stored invalid serial data received and
    the 055 is set for loss of rear wheel speed data. The
    customer states that the speedometer DOES NOT drop when the
    problem occurs.


    That's actually enough information to allow a competent technician to accurately diagnose the problem. James got .3 for being able to see where all of that lead. I could post thousands of examples like this.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    If you don't take of yourself first (including getting paid for the work you do), you won't be able to help anyone.

    This actually leads to where the solution is in the hands of the consumer, but we have a heck of a journey to tie that all together.

    I subsidize the shop's existence with teaching, writing and essentially working more than a reasonable number of hours each week. It shouldn't be that way. Consumers have for too long made the perception of fair pricing to be the cheapest price. Media has routinely praised foolish business practices and actually contributes to consumers who don't see the value we really do provide. Going back to the Cadillac, someone who replaced the headlight switch, and then when that didn't fix the problem, repaired the bad wire without saying what they did would actually make more money than we did on that car. The odd part is that customer usually walked away feeling better about the service than the average person in this Cadillac owners position.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    You need a better class of customer. They are out there; just don't give away freebies to the bottom feeders.

    No one has guessed on the intermittent ABS/code problem yet?

    ECU reflash? Loose battery cable? Leaky spark plug wires?

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited March 2013
    I'm gonna go with a bad connection on a rear wheel speed sensor assoc with stability control. Probably a ground somewhere assc with that wheel..and sharing enough similar circuitry with other circuits..maybe a shift out of park interlock connection which could fire the locks trying to lock, and of course the ABS light is assoc with stab control, and maybe even also when slipping it outta park. The fuel gauge momentary dump is a mystery, altho the flashing lo fuel light is not..it will be part of whatever caused the gauge to slip past that point which would trigger the light.

    I do know that simple (ya right..said with sarcasm) ground issues almost anywhere on the vehicle, can cause a myriad of other systems to light up and misbehave, cuz the current is still there, but looking for a weaker track to take..

    Forgot to add...and this sounds just soooooooo frig GM :roll eyes:
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    We do our diagnostics by selling blocks of time and I do any and all testing required in that period of time. In some cases we sell an hour, and if the car is diagnosed quickly we reduce the fee appropriately

    Most of the dealerships/shops I've taken my car to charge a flat rate diagnostic fee.. $100-120 whether they find in the problem in 5 minutes or an hour. Which is a rip-off IMO. The 15 minute block thing sounds pretty reasonable, though I'd personally like it to have it booked to the minute. Pay for the work done on your car, not someone elses.
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    To get him to bring the car in, we had to cut our pricing below what it costs to provide that service

    Wow. Thats wierd. You called the guy up and said you'd repair his car at a loss if he would just bring it in and let you fix it? Uhhh... where is your shop located now? :blush:

    Now can you imagine having to complete that diagnosis in under eighteen minutes? (.3hr) Can you imagine a system that expects the the technicians to complete every diagnosis in that amount of time?

    Is that what most places do? Charge a $120 diagnostic fee then expect tech to diagnosis in less than half the time the diagnostic fee would cover?
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    though I'd personally like it to have it booked to the minute. Pay for the work done on your car, not someone elses.

    Bring your car to me Jipster - I'll be happy to charge you and anyone else with cash in hand by the minute for my expert diagnosis. :D

    I don't mind paying for time and experience.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited March 2013
    I don't mind paying a little extra than literal time either for that experience. Plus, some of these guys have a LOT of $ tied up in tools..many of which become obsolete before they have actually paid for themselves. Paying .3 for something that maybe took .1 helps cover these costs. It seems wrong to willfully want to belittle any amt of that diagnostic time if the guy's experience can save him .2.

    I wish there was a shop like doc's in my area.

    As for tool costs...there is at least at some level, a reward for getting to mess with all these cools toys..
    I'm using the term toys somewhat loosely of course, cuz I'm allowing for a level of geek factor. I'd wager that some of these guys get a bit excited and a bit of a personal-high reward when first using their newly invested-in tool/toy.

    (thinkin' of that 4 station wireless noise communicator) Santa...this is what I'd like under the tree next year.. lol
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Paying .3 for something that maybe took .1 helps cover these costs. It seems wrong to willfully want to belittle any amt of that diagnostic time if the guy's experienc

    That's not the problem though. If repair books out at an hour and the mechanic finishes in half an hour, then yeah, he gets paid for full hour. But, if it books at 15 minutes, and shop charges 1 hour diagnostic, then that's really not fair.

    Really don't see how you could book a diagnostic in the first place. You are paying for time to find the problem, not time to repair.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I don't think we are on different pages here, jipster..I think the reason doc decided to open his own business is cuz the dealer shop, took all the extras and the mechanic..the guys whose experience is what kept their lights on the taxes paid, wasn't ending up in their wallet..

    So far, it sounds like Steve was right when he suggested that doc is probably not charging enough many times. But I bet when he goes to bed at night, he sleeps better than many..a clear conscience makes one helluva sedative..
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    edited March 2013
    A shop owner needs someone who likes money to run the front desk so the folks who enjoy wrenching can do just that. :shades:

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  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    A shop owner needs someone who likes money to run the front desk so the folks who enjoy wrenching can do just that.

    It's all about profit. Depending on the amount profit generated unless the person is multi-talented where he could wrench while there are no customers waiting with questions. It would be hard to justify paying someone to run the front side of the house. If a person were that good I'd think he would open a shop of his own. Although a friend of mine has an autobody shop where he hired a manager so he could play golf 5 days a week.

    I'm curious as to why doc hasn't hired additional help so as to multiply his efforts and profit.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,826
    Well, it's two different skill sets and some people don't have both. Or don't have the interest or don't have the time to do a good job with both. A front desk manager can handle the morning rush and then keep the "crew" on schedule, help with the books and billings, compliance and do a bunch of marketing.

    I was reading about a service writer last week who had good people skills. He opened up a garage and freely admits that he's not much of a mechanic. He enjoys the management aspects of keeping the techs and the customers happy.

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  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    edited March 2013
    I'm gonna go with a bad connection on a rear wheel speed sensor assoc with stability control. SNIP

    The fuel gauge momentary dump is a mystery, altho the flashing lo fuel light is not..it will be part of whatever caused the gauge to slip past that point which would trigger the light.


    As a dealer tech with this car under warranty, you just used and failed to repair this with the first of three attempts to fix this before it could be subject to a buyback.

    Plus, since it's now a comeback you won't be paid at all for any more diagnostics, no matter how much time you spend. You could expect to be treated like this, with problems this difficult on many diffrent manufacturers, not just GM.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    You need a better class of customer. They are out there; just don't give away freebies to the bottom feeders.

    We have a good group of core customers (about 20%). They are there for us, and we for them and have been for twenty years. The real difference between thriving, compared to barely surviving can be found in better educating about 60% of the consumers as to what it really takes to be there for them. The last 20%, can cause 80% of the problems shops ever face. They are usually the ones ready to fire off a bad review, even if everything went as good as it ever could.

    From there we still have to compete with the street pricing, and that means some old shops, that never go to schools, and haven't been investing in tools for years. They are holding pricing hostage at 80's rates, 40/hr. On one hand, you can't blame them or the people who support them yet what is happening is that causes the trade to stratify even more. There is a huge difference between their shops and mine when it comes to dealing with the technology in the cars, but that doesn't result in profits. We only survive by being very creative, and by tons of hours of effort. To get to work a forty hour week, with what we actually do, our prices would need to be about 40% higher on both parts and labor.

    No one has guessed on the intermittent ABS/code problem yet?
    ECU reflash? Loose battery cable? Leaky spark plug wires?


    None of the above. You have also used your first attempt. Two more and the car gets to be a buy back.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    Most of the dealerships/shops I've taken my car to charge a flat rate diagnostic fee.. $100-120 whether they find in the problem in 5 minutes or an hour. Which is a rip-off IMO.

    When I get a European vehicle in for diagnostics, I now have a tool that supports them better than all of the other aftermarket tools do, but it is still short of any of the O.E. tools. The payment for this tool is $228 a month. If I use it once a month, what should I charge?

    Its pretty easy to see that there is a problem with just that one part of this equation. Most would say that you shouldn't even have a tool like that, but its a part of what we do. If you combine what all of the tools cost for just the diagnostics, it costs us about $60 per event just to be ready to take the correct tool out of the box for each diagnostic. Now if we spend five minutes we push that cost lower, if we take an hour we actually lost money to the point that the effort didn't produce any income, it only paid the shops bills.

    Dealerships actually have an advantage here, they only have to tool up for one or two manufacturers depending on what they sell. We have to try to support as many manufacturers as we can justify. The cost to date is over 100K for us and still rising.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    I wish there was a shop like doc's in my area.

    There probably is, "consumer experts" have failed to explain how to find them. Here is one way.

    http://autorepair.iatn.net/

    As for tool costs...there is at least at some level, a reward for getting to mess with all these cools toys

    Right up to the moment someone writes an article that suggests a $100 code puller enables you to do everything that we can (they can't) and that no matter what our prices are it's too much. They preach this, and preach this and we find ourselves wrong if we don't make the investment to approach the jobs correctly, and wrong if we do. If you really can't find a shop like mine, at least now you know why. We've lost way too many good people to other way's of life because of that kind of abuse.

    (thinkin' of that 4 station wireless noise communicator) Santa...this is what I'd like under the tree next year.. lol

    I had a Trailblazer this week for other repairs, but while road testing it there was a bad front hub bearing. Swaying the car the noise was louder to the left and almost dissapeard to the right. That suggests the RH bearing. However the sound in a straight line clearly appeared to be from the left. The Chassis Ear made it simple to prove that it was indeed the RH bearing.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    Wow. Thats weird. You called the guy up and said you'd repair his car at a loss if he would just bring it in and let you fix it? Uhhh... where is your shop located now

    We had to limit the price to the equivelant of 1/2 an hours work to get him in the door. This is one of the flaws of the trade because of selling "time" and its constantly a rob Peter to pay Paul and in the end no one is happy with it. This customer approached us with common perspective. He's a former millwright, and used to doing his own work and considered himself as very competent, until this(fifteen year old) headlight system kicked his donkey. When he saw me getting out the Tech II and printing the schematic he was intrigued, and then in a matter of minutes he saw his headlights on and that I had full control of them with the scan tool and the interior controls nothing more needed to be said.

    Every time a scan tool comes out of the box it costs us about $60. to do that. The schematic which comes from the information system works out to about $8. a car. Heck the computerized repair orders cost us $2. If I have to use an oscilloscope and some of the other tools, the costs simply keep climbing,and we still have to spend the "time" to actually diagnose and repair the car. If we had charged "an hour" to diagnose this we would break even, by charging half an hour we got the job, but that still amounts to failing.

    Now can you imagine having to complete that diagnosis in under eighteen minutes? (.3hr) Can you imagine a system that expects the the technicians to complete every diagnosis in that amount of time?

    Is that what most places do? Charge a $120 diagnostic fee then expect tech to diagnosis in less than half the time the diagnostic fee would cover?

    If you have a problem with the car under warranty, the tech gets .3 to diagnose it. If you are no longer under warranty the tech might get an hour to do the same diagnostic. Somehow they call that "Flat Rate", it doesn't seem very flat to me.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    The 561 is set for stored invalid serial data received and
    the 055 is set for loss of rear wheel speed data. The
    customer states that the speedometer DOES NOT drop when the
    problem occurs.


    This is a huge clue to the source of the trouble. You have to understand how the ABS module gets its rear wheel speed signal which is actually from the rear wheel speed sensor in the transmission, which connects directly to the transmission control module. The TCM communicates directly to the PCM, which sends that information out on the CAN bus. (Controller Area Network high speed bus)

    Dealer techs have a significant advantage when it comes to product knowledge simply because of how frequently they deal with the same systems. Even so, this "simple" problem would be a nightmare for all but a handful of techs in the country. There is a rational way to deduce where the failure is from the information provided, without a single manual test.
  • thecardoc3thecardoc3 Posts: 1,522
    If you don't take of yourself first (including getting paid for the work you do), you won't be able to help anyone.

    I keep coming back to this and want to show just how actions by others outside the trade have made this almost impossible to do at the level that we really should be at.

    I've mentioned my newest tool, which targets European vehicles. I took in a Volvo XC70 for the drivers heated seat being inoperative. When base-lining the car I also noted that there was no control of the AC/Heater/Defroster mode doors. The scan tool hooked up just fine and allowed for retrieval of codes, clearing of codes, and some data. The codes that were setting were communication codes between the AC control head, and the mode door and drivers heated seat modules. By design the scan tool only communicates to the control head and it is a gateway for the other modules. Common failures include the mode door module as well as the heated seat module. To repair the car once it is completely diagnosed, not only would the failed module, or wiring harness problem need addressed, you also have to use a scan tool to command calibration functions to run. These functions are not in this tool, which meant no matter what we could not complete the job. Were we really there for that customer?

    I gave them the information that I had, and sent them off to the dealer, N/C. :sick:
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