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BMWs - Still The Ultimate Driving Machines?

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Comments

  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,389
    I agree 100% Only a very few new BMWs are even remotely entertaining to drive. Munich is abandoning the sport sedan market just as Cadillac and Lexus are embracing it. I know more than a few long time BMW CCA members who now own a CTS-V, Boss 302, or C6 Corvette because they could not find a BMW that drove the way they expected it to. As for me, I've had a BMW in the garage continuously since 1983; 10 in all and four currently in the family. I doubt that I'll ever buy another new or CPO Bimmer again. In fact an E92 M3 is about as new as I would go.
    Now BMW panders to the imbeciles like the "enthusiast" I ran into at our local dealer's F30 intro- who told me that he liked automatics because "he wanted a car that he could drive without having to do anything."

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,389
    Funny thing; I remembered a statement I made in my 2007 article on the international launch of the E93. While I had nothing but praise for the car's handling, I went on to write that the performance of the car was a moot point as BMW would sell as many as they could build- even if the car had the driving dynamics of a Chevrolet Cobalt.
    It sure looks like BMW is beginning to adopt that marketing strategy....

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,909



    Do you agree that "The Ultimate Driving Machine" tag line is deceptive, when applied to most newer BMWs, or disagree?

    I'm BMW owner and long time fan but I'm also a retired advertising professional and IMO "The ultimate driving machine" slogan was never anything more than a bit adverting B.S. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of automobile dynamics knows that to maximize the driving dynamics of a car you have to place the heaviest part (the motor) in the middle of the car. If you're really looking for the "ultimate" you want the engine behind the driver (but not at the very rear as in a 911 or a Beetle).

    At this time BMW offers no mid-engined vehicles to the public and hasn't since the M1 of the 1980s. I have driven a few late model Bimmers and they did not impress me as being particularly responsive compared to the 15 y/o BMWs I am familiar with.

    All that said I'm not sure many of BMWs competitors offer superior driving dynamics either and I myself plan to have a good look at the new 2-Series , especially the M235 which seem to offer a return to the driving characteristics we loved in the 20th Century cars.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,389
    I do like the M235i, but optioned with just leather, the Cold Weather Package, H/K audio, and port-installed locking diff I'm looking at over $48,500. Ridiculous...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,909

    I do like the M235i, but optioned with just leather, the Cold Weather Package, H/K audio, and port-installed locking diff I'm looking at over $48,500. Ridiculous...

    I feel you buddy. The price of new BMWs has always been outlandish, that's why I buy them used. The depreciation curve on them is pretty steep. My 528i stickered for $47K in 2000 but I got it for $26K in '04 w 44,ooo miles (lease return).

    Wait a couple of years and you'll get that M235 for the price of a new Accord; I know which I'd rather have.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,161
    Speaking from a fan of the Swabian competition, the only thing that might make me choose a late model BMW is HUD. Otherwise, I don't know how much more boring a MB is on the road anymore, as BMW has lux'd it up and became a little soft. And as MB is introducing HUD on new models, that attraction might be slipping.

    The "ultimate" belief has a lot of equity, so BMW can still run with it for awhile - and as the brand has a brash image, that appeals to some. It's not over.
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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,377
    edited December 2014

    Funny thing; I remembered a statement I made in my 2007 article on the international launch of the E93. While I had nothing but praise for the car's handling, I went on to write that the performance of the car was a moot point as BMW would sell as many as they could build- even if the car had the driving dynamics of a Chevrolet Cobalt.
    It sure looks like BMW is beginning to adopt that marketing strategy....

    Speaking of Cobalts, there are two Chevys (ies?) that I think are competitive with higher performance BMWs, but cost less; the Corvette C-7 and Impala SS, and arguably a third, the Camaro. The SS and the Camaro are too porky for my tastes, but from what I've read GM will fix that in the next generation, as it did with the Cadillac ATS and CTS.

    The new Mustang is also impressive. Again, for less money than a performance comparable BMW 2 or 3-Series, and lower upkeep. The main thing you give up with domestics are prestige, in my opinion.

    Click on to a Impala SS review below...

    http://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2015-chevrolet-ss-review-notes

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,377

    No doubt, Chevrolet and Ford are nibbling at the south end of BMWs market. Me, I'm a bit of a redneck at heart and find myself drawn to the Challenger SRT- not as adept on the track as the ///M BMWs, but infinitely more personality...
    -

    The Challenger SRT is a really nice looking car, with strong performance, but it's even larger and heavier than the Camaro, if only by a little. I look for the next generation Challenger to remedy these deficiencies.

    The V6 Challenger would be a nice cruiser, with adequate performance for me. The V8 sound would be hard to give up, however.

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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,389
    I rented a V6 for the weekend last summer. Not a slug, but I'd have to get the V8.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,377
    edited January 1
    Given its price and positioning in the BMW product lineup, the BMW 7-Series should be aspirational. However, Consumer Reports criticizes it for being “a ponderous, technology-laden vehicle with ungainly handling.” It's included in the publication’s lists of lowest-scoring cars, worst overall values and most expensive operating costs in its class. In addition, it also gets a rock-bottom resale value rating from ALG, a company that predicts residual values, and a below average performance score from J.D. Power. My source for this information is an article in Forbes magazine entitled "15 New Cars To Avoid."

    Ponderous and ungainly handling don't equate with "Ultimate Driving Machine."

    Hopefully, BMW will address these deficiencies with the next generation 7.
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  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 7,389
    I spent a week with a 2008 Alpina B7 and absolutely loved it. I haven't driven the current F01 7er but that assessment doesn't surprise me; the F10 5er is softer and less adept than the 7ers of the past.

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 1999 Wrangler 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica Wife's: 2009 328i Son's: 2004 X3 2.5i

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 35,161
    The new 7er has been leaked and it looks like a super-sized F10. I don't know if the S-class is worried at all. Most interesting thing might be the laser lights, which due to NHTSA/DOT idiocy, will probably not be seen in Murka.
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  • au1994au1994 Posts: 898
    When my lease matures on the 335i it will likely be my last new BMW. It replaced an E92 which I thought fantastic. In the interim I bought my ZHP. The contrast between them is remarkable and I cannot believe how much the series has grown and softened. But, supply and demand rules the market and BMW will quite simply keep producing what people are buying.

    The 2 Series is as close to 3's of old it appears but that is just a little to small for my tastes but an otherwise great car in my (and others) opinion. If they bring out a sedan I'd probably give it a look. Given the new numbering convention at BMW, I believe it would technically be a 1 series.

    I've got a year to decide what my replacement will be but am leaning towards a small CUV...GLK, Q5 etc. Likely not the X3 as it just leaves me cold and when optioned to a comparable Q5 is quite expensive. I'd like to save a few bucks on this lease so I have more cash flow to keep my ZHP in tip top shape.

    I watch the monthly sales numbers as many of you do here and it doesn't seem that anything BMW does or does not do impacts sales too much. Month by month BMW, Audi and MB seem to trade a few market share points here and there but all are selling almost all models pretty well.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,909
    The 2 Series is as close to 3's of old it appears but that is just a little to small for my tastes but an otherwise great car in my (and others) opinion

    I've seen the M235i and to me it looks close to the size of your 330Cic.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

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  • au1994au1994 Posts: 898
    andys120 said:

    The 2 Series is as close to 3's of old it appears but that is just a little to small for my tastes but an otherwise great car in my (and others) opinion

    I've seen the M235i and to me it looks close to the size of your 330Cic.

    Yes, its pretty close in size. I should have been more clear, the 2 series is too small for me to consider it as a daily driver. I don't DD my ZHP, its the weekend/sunny day cruiser. Although with good luck in the spring and summer I can sometimes string 4 or 5 of those in a row :smile:

    I prefer to have something a little roomier in the stable as well.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

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  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,377
    fintail said:

    The new 7er has been leaked and it looks like a super-sized F10. I don't know if the S-class is worried at all. Most interesting thing might be the laser lights, which due to NHTSA/DOT idiocy, will probably not be seen in Murka.

    Maybe the 9er will be aimed more directly against the S-class.

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20150107/BLOG06/150109941/is-bmw-9-series-a-step-closer?profile=1115
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