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Honda Civic Type R

playathug21playathug21 Posts: 20
edited April 1 in Honda
is there EVER gonna be a Civic Type R in the US? if so (ive heard at honda-tech its comin in 2002) what is the price gonna be about? Will it be race modified somewhat like a Integra type R (brakes, suspension, etc.) any answers would be appreciated.
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Comments

  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    It didn't come to the US in '97 through now, when it was out in Japan.. why now? What you might 've heard is that the Civic Si might be back in '02, not the CTR. I 've never heard this rumor.. I stopped believing most rumors unless they came from major car mags because so far everything about the RSX and stuff that came from Motortrend, Car & Driver and others a year ago, came true.
    The new Civic Type-R (hatchback) in Japan has 215hp and I believe it's already out or should be coming out any day. Why don't you buy an '01 Integra Type-R? I think it's going to be a classic because the new RSX with 200hp will not handle nor accelerate as well as the current Type-R. There 's supposed to be a 215-220hp Type-R in '03 for the US but many people like the current looks of the ITR and are buying them now instead of waiting another 2 yrs for the RSX-R.
  • You all might want to check out our Future Telling area from time to time to see what the manufacturers have planned for the future. Click below and check it out!
    Future Telling
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Perhaps you Honda owners can help me out here. I heard that when Hondas do break that they are fairly expensive to repair. Is this true? Are their parts for routine maintenence more expensive? If I'm going to buy a Honda, I'd at least to know up regarding maitnenence and repairs.

    Leo
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    The answer to both of your questions is yes. Honda's generally are reliable, but when they do break, expect to pay higher prices than you would for any American automaker and even some imports. They also design certain parts so that they can not be substituted for cheaper alternatives. Example: Power steering fluid is unique to Honda cars, making it impossible to top off with the cheap noname brand fluid or risk damaging expensive parts. The distributor can only be bought as an entire unit costing $400-up instead of being offered with rebuild kits (bearing failure was a common problem on early 90 Hondas). As for maintenance, if you plan on taking it to the dealer, expect to encounter ridiculously high prices. Honda has always been one of the more expensive cars to maintain, as shown by long term tests in car magazines and also family experience. If you do your own maintenance, than it's not so bad as parts are readily available. My dad does all the work on my mom's 92 Accord and it is still running strong at 188,000 miles.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Thank for your candid response. For some reason I was never able to get a straight answer on this question.

    Thank you for the tipe on Honda's power steering fluid. Did not know that. Just like I didn't know that Toyota has special antifreeze for their radiators. And it does make a difference.

    I haven't bought a car for 7 years and propably not for another year, so make that 8 years. So I've been out of the loop researching cars for a looong time. I thought that these new cars are now direct ingnition and have done away with distributor, yes? Has Honda fix the bearing replacement problem or are they still needed? If so at what mileage? Do Honda's still require valve adjustments? If so, how much does that cost? Lastly, would you recommend Hondas? Either Accords or Civics? If so, any particual model of each make?

    Thank you for your response.

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Thank for your candid response. For some reason I was never able to get a straight answer on this question.

    Thank you for the tipe on Honda's power steering fluid. Did not know that. Just like I didn't know that Toyota has special antifreeze for their radiators. And it does make a difference.

    I haven't bought a car for 7 years and propably not for another year, so make that 8 years. So I've been out of the loop researching cars for a looong time. I thought that these new cars are now direct ingnition and have done away with distributor, yes? Has Honda fix the bearing replacement problem or are they still needed? If so at what mileage? Do Honda's still require valve adjustments? If so, how much does that cost? Lastly, would you recommend Hondas? Either Accords or Civics? If so, any particual model of each make?

    Thank you for your response.

    Leo
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    Your "future telling" section leaves a lot to be desired. There are many wrong statements in there and some of the cars have already been announced with specs, but your section is still trying to guess about these cars and they 're way off! I guess it hasn't been updated in a while.
  • Thanks for the feedback. I'll pass it along.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Honda still uses a distributor. Only some cars are using the direct ignition, like Hyundai, GM, and Toyota. As far as I know, Honda has fixed the bearing failure problem. My mom's distributor failed at 80,000 miles. Her car happened to be recalled after the fact for the exact problem, but Civics and Vigors weren't so lucky. My dad was able to replace the distributor bearing himself with some ingenuity, but anyone else would have had to fork over the $400 or so to have the whole unit replaced. I believe Honda still requires valve adjustments every 30,000 miles. Normally it just needs the clearance to be checked and than adjusted if necessary. My dad has only had to actually adjust the valves maybe twice. Since he did it himself, I can't say for sure how much it would cost, but I estimate it to be around $150.
    As far as whether I would recommend Honda, that is a bit hard for me to answer. My sister currently owns a 2000 Honda Odyssey that has been nothing but trouble. She is trying to claim the lemon law on it and has run into bad customer service on Honda's part. Honda is not a company you want to deal with if you run into problems. Due to her bad experiences, I have been discouraged with Honda's quality. In recent years, there also seems to be more complaints about problems and more recalls as well. I still feel they are reliable cars mechanically, but overall, their quality seems to have dropped. It's either that or other companies have dramatically improved their quality. The other problem I have with Honda is the fact that their cars are so boring and lack personality, but are still ridiculously high-priced. Their looks are bland and they no longer perform at the top of the class. The Civic has fallen way behind the competition with its wimpy 1.7 liter, when everyone else has standard 1.8-2.0 liter engines with more horsepower and torque. Example: For 15K, the Civic LX will get you 115 hp. The same price will buy you 125 hp in the Corolla, 130 hp in the Protege and Focus, 140 hp in the Elantra, and 145 hp in the Sentra. Even if you ante up the 17K for the Civic EX, the power is still only 127 hp. That # is deceiving though, as it doesn't show how lacking it is in torque. 114 pound feet of torque just can't compete with 133 in the Elantra, 135 in the Focus, and 136 in the Sentra. The Accord doesn't have the same power deficit problems, but it does lack personality. Neither car is something that would stand out in the crowd. It's kind of like driving your reliable refrigerator around. Now these are just my subjective opinions. You may not care too much about power or style. At any rate, I'm a bit more reserved about recommending Honda than I used to be. Sorry for long post. Hope my insight helps you in your search. Would be happy to try to answer any questions about other cars as well, as I'm very knowledgeable in this area.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    with most of your points but people seem to buy Hondas more for the gas mileage which is better than most of the models you mentioned, and the reliability. No doubt the Sentra SE is the best bang for the money right now. I couln't see my self paying $14-15K for an LX or even $16K for an EX when you can get the Sentra with 145hp, 4 wheel disc brakes, 15" alloys, better suspension/handling, etc. There are other choices out there of course other than Honda, but I 've had such good luck with my '97 Civic HB at 122k mi., that I have no reason not to recommend Honda. Gas mileage and reliability were my only reasons for buying a Civic since my commute is 160mi/day. Corollas can get expensive too. A guy at work paid almost $17K for an auto and I think it has a very boring interior and exterior. Another guy has a 5-sp '00 Corolla. We raced down the street from from my company and I passed him with my 106hp Civic. Then we went all out on the highway going home and I destroyed him. I was pulling away from him every time and we got up to speeds of over 100mph (I had it up to 110mph and he couldn't keep up). So much for that extra 19hp..
    It's the power to weight ratio that counts, gearing and other things. My car weighs 2258lbs, his probably 2600-2700lbs. Anyway, Toyota & Mazda are good alternates to a Civic and should be fairly reliable too (Toyota more than Protege).
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Either you are one great driver or your friend can't drive a stick worth a crap. You sure the car did not have an automatic? The numbers prove that your feat would be utterly impossible. The Civic LX with a stick and the same 106 hp engine takes 9.5 sec to go from 0-60 and 36.7 from 0-100. The Chevy Prizm with a stick takes only 8.3 sec to go from 0-60 and 27.2 from 0-100. The Prizm only weighs 2403 compared to the Civic's 2385, a very slim difference. These numbers suggest that you should have been the one eating his dust. He must not have been too serious about racing you or, like I said, can't drive.
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    Thank you for your response. No it wasn't too long. I'd prefer a long detail explaination than a brief yes or no without an explaination.

    I heard Toyota is revamping their Corolla to improve hp/torque as well as interior room. My one complaint with the Corolla has been rear legroom when compared to Protege, Civic and Hundai. Yes, the Corolla can get expensive. But if Toyota improves the Corolla than it may merit consideration.

    I am also considering the Protege and Elantra. Appreciate any advise you can give on any of these cars.

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    the protege and elantra I was thinking about where the 5 door hatchbacks.

    Leo
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    Sorry, can't ingnore him because he 's comparing an LX which only comes in a sedan form to my Civic Hatchback that weighs 2258lbs. The LX sedan weighs over 2400lbs.. Plus he doesn't understand that I said I have no power steering in my '97 DX HB. That means my car puts down more HP (about 2-3hp) at the wheels than an LX. I hope he knows the difference between whp and bhp.
    Anyway, Autoweek and Automobile both tested the '97 Civic DX HB in 8.7s and 9.0 respectively in 0-60. They said that it was almost as fast as the EX. Yes, the LX has always been 9.3-9.5 but there is almost a 200lb difference between the two, "minus" powersteering in mine which adds power.. A couple of hundred pounds seriously hurts acceleration in these light cars that have low torque. When my 200lb brother is in my car, I can feel right away my car is slower.
    And what's a Prizm have to do with a Corolla? The new Prizms have Chevy engines, not like the old ones that had Toyota ones. I 'm not sure what the 0-60 times are on the new Corolla (125hp) but I don't think they 're below 9.0 sec.
    I also didn't say the Corolla was slow. I think it faired very well. I only raced him because he had a big mouth and was saying how fast his car was. Let's face it, whether you own a Corolla, Civic, or Protege, you shouldn't go around telling people you have a fast car. This guy wanted to race me when I took my GSR to work a few months ago. I laughed, then I let him pass me on the highway on the way home, it wasn't worth my time. A few weeks later when I drove the Civic in and ran into him I told him this 'd be a better match for his "fast" Corolla. My $12.5K car (new in '97) didn't disappoint me and dusted his $15.8K (this is what he paid, I don't know what sticker is, but my sticker was a little higher as well) Corolla, not by a lot but nevertheless. I honestly thought in the beginning that he 'd beat me and was worried about keeping up. Of course having better tires than him also helped me where he probably didn't have the confidence on the high speeds nor the agility that my car has with wider tires (195-60 HR tires vs. 185-65SR factory ones), switching lanes fast, etc.
    Ingtone18: are you 18yrs old? You have a lot to learn..
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    The Protege comes in a hatchback? Are you sure? Gotta go do some research.. I thought the only hatchbacks left out there are the Integra, Focus, and VW Golf/GTI (I think the Daewoo has a little one too).
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    what's the difference between whp and bhp--both are refering to horsepower. I often see this terms.

    Leo
  • leomortleomort Posts: 451
    what's the difference between whp and bhp--both are refering to horsepower. I often see this terms.

    Leo
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    Sorry, you need to learn a bit more about cars. I suggest reading articles a bit more closely. The reason I mentioned the Prizm is because, imagine that, it's a Toyota Corolla with a Chevy badge. They are completely identical (aside from interior styling and rear tailights) and are even built in the same NUMMI plant in California. I don't know why you ever thought the Prizm had a Chevy engine, but it doesn't. It shares the Toyota 1.8 liter DOHC 16 valve 4 cylinder with VVT and 125 hp (Chevy doesn't even build an engine with those credentials). As for the Protege, if you had been reading the proper info you would know that a Protege 5-door hatch called the Protege 5 is coming out this summer. If you had read my message, you would see that the Civic LX does not weigh over 2400 pounds and the difference in weight between your car and the LX is only 127#, not almost 200. As for you beating your coworker, here's a thought: Did you take into account AC usage? If you had the AC off and he had it on, than you could have easily beat him, as AC saps power dramatically but most people don't think to turn it off for the extra power. I know the Civic hatch was the second fastest Civic behind the EX coupe, but the numbers still stand that I documented here: 8.3 seconds will always beat 8.7-9.0, no getting around that other than poor driving on his part. I'm fully aware of whp. It's the hp measureable at the wheels, which takes into account friction of the transmission, CV joints, differential, and other things. And no I'm not 18, I'm 21, but apparently my knowledge already surpasses yours.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I 've been racing (competition, auto-x) for years and I 'm 14yrs older than you. If you think your knowledge surpasses mine, I feel sorry for you. You seem to rely a lot on what magazines write. yeah all the mags tested the Type-R 0-60 in 6.8-7s and 1/4 mi. in 15-15.2. My brother goes out in the track and does 14.8. My friend did a 14.59 with his stock ITR. Motortrend, C&D and R&T got hit with so many letters that they retested the Type-R (and S2000) and said they realized they had to launch at higher RPMs to get better accel. times, duh, I don't trust any of these drivers.. They retested the ITR at 6.2s and 14.8 in the 1/4 and the S2000 they got it down to 5-5.3s from 5.5-5.7. They also make many mistakes regarding suspension and engine components and generalize a lot. Don't believe everything they say.. and they do make mistakes. Just a year ago all the major car mags were saying that the Prizm was getting a GM engine 1.9L for '01 and critisized that.. Now I guess they decided to keep the Toyota engine after all, or the car mags had gotten some erroneous information from someone on the "inside" or believe rumors people spread. That's just one example. Also if you read the Edmunds review under New Cars of the Prizm, they say it's way too expensive and can be nearly $20K with options. Another mistake (I think) Edmunds made is that they list is as having 120hp.. They ALL make mistakes now and then. I used to read every imaginable car magazine around and had way too many subscriptions.. Now I just go from what I experience in real life. Yeah, you bring a Corolla or Prizm to the auto-x races, and watch my little Civic HB kick their butt. HP and #s don't mean crap under different circuimstances.
    Like I said, you got a lot to learn.

    PS. No he didn't have the AC on, it was 50deg. out.. Where did you see the Corolla 0-60 in 8.3s?
    I just saw an Autoweek article while I was getting an oil change, and they had they tested the Civic EX coupe 5-sp. in 8.3s 0-60! That's a big difference from C&D's 9s.. just goes to show you how much they can vary plus there are factors like altitude, temp and barometric pressure..
  • 'whp' and 'bhp' are indeed terms for horsepower.

    'whp' is the horsepower at the wheel, that is, the horsepower which is actually moving your car (actually, torque is what is actually accelerating your car; in fact, torque is what is actually measured when people place their car on what is called a chassis dynometer. The horsepower is calculated based on the measured torque and the rpm it occurs at. But that's a whole 'nother discussion).

    'bhp' stands for brake horsepower. No, it is not the horsepower measured at the brake. Maybe one of our resident mathematicians can tell you why it is called 'brake' horsepower. Anyway, it is the amount of power the engine is making as measured at the crankshaft. This is the rating you will typically see from the manufacturer. Like in the examples above, when somebody says the ITR has 195 hp, that is the horsepower the factory rates the car at and is measured at the crank.

    'whp' will ALWAYS be less than 'bhp', usually by around 15-20%. This is because when the power is measured at the crankshaft, the frictional losses in the drivetrain (transmission, driveshaft, differential) are not taken into account. Also, such accesories as the power steering pump are not attached, which further reduce the 'bhp'. Now, why don't the manufacturers rate their car by the 'whp' rather than the 'bhp'? Well, to use the ITR example above, not all ITR's will have the same frictional losses in the drivetrain. Some ITR's may measure 160hp at the wheels, some may measure 170. Rating the cars by what the motor makes at the crank is probably more consistent.

    I hope this helps.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I don't surmise my knowledge surpasses yours as far as racing, but nor do I care. The problem I have is that you try to make yourself sound knowledgeable about cars and yet you can't get all the facts straight. If someone wants to claim to be so much more knowledgeable about cars than I am, I at least expect them to make true statements, not blame mistakes on rumors they read. First of all, I never heard any rumors concerning a GM 1.9 engine going into the Prizm. You must be thinking of Saturn as thats the only GM company that uses a 1.9 liter 4 banger. In fact, did you know the Prizm will be dead after the 2002 model year? What you misread was that the Prizm would be replaced by another car that MIGHT be powered by a GM engine. Car mags do print rumors but it is only speculation; they do not present it as fact. Try not to read so much truth into their speculations next time. At any rate, I still don't understand why you are arguing with me over the numbers for the Prizm and asking "where did you see 8.3 sec for the Corolla?". C&D has tested 2 Prizms. They tested a 98 model with a stick and the 120 hp engine and it went from 0-60 in 8.5 sec. Than they tested a 2000 Prizm with a stick and the 125 hp engine and it went from 0-60 in 8.3 sec. It was tied with the Elantra as the fastest economy sedan out of 13 cars (comparison test). These numbers are good for the Corolla as well because they are completely identical! C&D has never tested a Civic EX in the 9s. Where are you getting your info?? The November issue of C&D tested the '01 Civic EX coupe at 8.4 sec from 0-60. You may have more years on me, but your real life experiences obviously don't help you get the facts straight. I don't just rely on car mags for all my info and I do realize they can make mistakes. I back everything they say up with the manafacturer's own website and other written sources. All I ask is that you actually research what you post instead of posting false information. Curiously, does your friend have the same background in racing? It's unfair to compare someone who has race driving skills with someone who doesn't. It's obvious that if your car was only outgunned by 0.5 of a second that your driving skills would more than make up for it.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    hey--

    anyone know if the Civic Type R will actually make it's way to the U.S.??
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Posts: 541
    Getting back on topic, :-) I have my serious doubts that we will EVER see the Honda Civic Type R hatchback in the USA.

    The reason is simple: it will steal sales from the upcoming Acura RS (the Integra replacement) due any day now. Very likely, the i-VTEC engine that is found on the Civic Type R hatchback will be one of the engine choices for the RS. We're talking a car approaching 150 mph top speed.

    I do know that Honda is supposed to ship for the 2002 model the Civic Si coupe based on the current model that will have a 1.7 liter L-4 i-VTEC engine rated at around 170-175 bhp, though. (I believe the 1.7 liter i-VTEC engine may be unique to the US market.) This will be the replacement for the last-generation Civic Si coupe with its 1.6 liter L-4 VTEC motor rated at 160 bhp. The new Civic Si coupe will likely have a top speed around 138 mph.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Good points. Thanks for your comments. I guess we can dream though.... ;-)

    Pocahontas
    Host
    Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    The CTR recently released in the UK definitely has the same motor and power of the RSX: 2.0L i-VTEC w/200hp and 145ft-lbs of torque. I don't know if it would steal sales from the RSX because Honda/Acura cars that carry the badge "Type-R" usually come with less amenities, like no sunroof, no cruise control, no leather, etc. The CTR is like the Type-R, built for the track with a heavy duty suspension, brakes, less sound deadening material, etc. offering a less comfortable and more noisy ride like the ITR. People that want more comfort and daily driveability will still buy the RSX. I think the reason they didn't bring the CTR here in '97-00 was because Civic HBs sales were very low starting at '96 with the introduction of the g6 HBs. They probably thought another hatchback version may not have sold too well. I think if Honda brings back the HB for '02 and sells realy well there is a remote chance we might see a limited # of CTRs hit North America although I highly doubt it if you look at the past history of the CTR and usually history repeats itself :(
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Posts: 541
    I do know that the Integra Type R did sell out in the USA, especially considering its eye-opening high-end power.

    Like I said earlier, the thought of cannibalizing Civic Si coupe sales is the reason why we'll never see the Civic Type R hatchback in the USA. That's why the 2002 Civic Si coupe--with a good number of other performance parts pinched from the Civic Type R hatchback--will arrive with the 1.7-liter i-VTEC motor rated at 170 bhp. :)
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I just read your post again and that's not what you said. You said the reason we won't get the Civic Type-R is because it will steal sales from the Acura RSX and that's the point I was arguing. You only said the Si will be coming out in '02.. I don't really see how a 200hp car will steal sales from a 170hp one if they 're priced comparably, and especially if one is a coupe (Si) and the other is a hatchback. I just don't see the relation. Besides, if the CTR ever made it to North American shores, it would be in limited #s like the ITR, of which we only got about 750 in '97, 1100 in '98 and 1350 in '00.
  • rsparrowrsparrow Posts: 60
    Well, according to Automobile magazine, Honda will be bringing the European Civic hatchback to the North American market this summer, in Si trim to boot. I think the article said to expect around 160hp. And as mentioned above, they don't expect it to ship with the same CTR engine in Europe because they don't want to affect sales in the Acura lineup--which of course isn't sold in Europe.
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