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Honda Civic Type R

2

Comments

  • 'whp' and 'bhp' are indeed terms for horsepower.

    'whp' is the horsepower at the wheel, that is, the horsepower which is actually moving your car (actually, torque is what is actually accelerating your car; in fact, torque is what is actually measured when people place their car on what is called a chassis dynometer. The horsepower is calculated based on the measured torque and the rpm it occurs at. But that's a whole 'nother discussion).

    'bhp' stands for brake horsepower. No, it is not the horsepower measured at the brake. Maybe one of our resident mathematicians can tell you why it is called 'brake' horsepower. Anyway, it is the amount of power the engine is making as measured at the crankshaft. This is the rating you will typically see from the manufacturer. Like in the examples above, when somebody says the ITR has 195 hp, that is the horsepower the factory rates the car at and is measured at the crank.

    'whp' will ALWAYS be less than 'bhp', usually by around 15-20%. This is because when the power is measured at the crankshaft, the frictional losses in the drivetrain (transmission, driveshaft, differential) are not taken into account. Also, such accesories as the power steering pump are not attached, which further reduce the 'bhp'. Now, why don't the manufacturers rate their car by the 'whp' rather than the 'bhp'? Well, to use the ITR example above, not all ITR's will have the same frictional losses in the drivetrain. Some ITR's may measure 160hp at the wheels, some may measure 170. Rating the cars by what the motor makes at the crank is probably more consistent.

    I hope this helps.
  • lngtonge18lngtonge18 Posts: 2,228
    I don't surmise my knowledge surpasses yours as far as racing, but nor do I care. The problem I have is that you try to make yourself sound knowledgeable about cars and yet you can't get all the facts straight. If someone wants to claim to be so much more knowledgeable about cars than I am, I at least expect them to make true statements, not blame mistakes on rumors they read. First of all, I never heard any rumors concerning a GM 1.9 engine going into the Prizm. You must be thinking of Saturn as thats the only GM company that uses a 1.9 liter 4 banger. In fact, did you know the Prizm will be dead after the 2002 model year? What you misread was that the Prizm would be replaced by another car that MIGHT be powered by a GM engine. Car mags do print rumors but it is only speculation; they do not present it as fact. Try not to read so much truth into their speculations next time. At any rate, I still don't understand why you are arguing with me over the numbers for the Prizm and asking "where did you see 8.3 sec for the Corolla?". C&D has tested 2 Prizms. They tested a 98 model with a stick and the 120 hp engine and it went from 0-60 in 8.5 sec. Than they tested a 2000 Prizm with a stick and the 125 hp engine and it went from 0-60 in 8.3 sec. It was tied with the Elantra as the fastest economy sedan out of 13 cars (comparison test). These numbers are good for the Corolla as well because they are completely identical! C&D has never tested a Civic EX in the 9s. Where are you getting your info?? The November issue of C&D tested the '01 Civic EX coupe at 8.4 sec from 0-60. You may have more years on me, but your real life experiences obviously don't help you get the facts straight. I don't just rely on car mags for all my info and I do realize they can make mistakes. I back everything they say up with the manafacturer's own website and other written sources. All I ask is that you actually research what you post instead of posting false information. Curiously, does your friend have the same background in racing? It's unfair to compare someone who has race driving skills with someone who doesn't. It's obvious that if your car was only outgunned by 0.5 of a second that your driving skills would more than make up for it.
  • sunilbsunilb Posts: 407
    hey--

    anyone know if the Civic Type R will actually make it's way to the U.S.??
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Posts: 541
    Getting back on topic, :-) I have my serious doubts that we will EVER see the Honda Civic Type R hatchback in the USA.

    The reason is simple: it will steal sales from the upcoming Acura RS (the Integra replacement) due any day now. Very likely, the i-VTEC engine that is found on the Civic Type R hatchback will be one of the engine choices for the RS. We're talking a car approaching 150 mph top speed.

    I do know that Honda is supposed to ship for the 2002 model the Civic Si coupe based on the current model that will have a 1.7 liter L-4 i-VTEC engine rated at around 170-175 bhp, though. (I believe the 1.7 liter i-VTEC engine may be unique to the US market.) This will be the replacement for the last-generation Civic Si coupe with its 1.6 liter L-4 VTEC motor rated at 160 bhp. The new Civic Si coupe will likely have a top speed around 138 mph.
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    Good points. Thanks for your comments. I guess we can dream though.... ;-)

    Pocahontas
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  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    The CTR recently released in the UK definitely has the same motor and power of the RSX: 2.0L i-VTEC w/200hp and 145ft-lbs of torque. I don't know if it would steal sales from the RSX because Honda/Acura cars that carry the badge "Type-R" usually come with less amenities, like no sunroof, no cruise control, no leather, etc. The CTR is like the Type-R, built for the track with a heavy duty suspension, brakes, less sound deadening material, etc. offering a less comfortable and more noisy ride like the ITR. People that want more comfort and daily driveability will still buy the RSX. I think the reason they didn't bring the CTR here in '97-00 was because Civic HBs sales were very low starting at '96 with the introduction of the g6 HBs. They probably thought another hatchback version may not have sold too well. I think if Honda brings back the HB for '02 and sells realy well there is a remote chance we might see a limited # of CTRs hit North America although I highly doubt it if you look at the past history of the CTR and usually history repeats itself :(
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Posts: 541
    I do know that the Integra Type R did sell out in the USA, especially considering its eye-opening high-end power.

    Like I said earlier, the thought of cannibalizing Civic Si coupe sales is the reason why we'll never see the Civic Type R hatchback in the USA. That's why the 2002 Civic Si coupe--with a good number of other performance parts pinched from the Civic Type R hatchback--will arrive with the 1.7-liter i-VTEC motor rated at 170 bhp. :)
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    I just read your post again and that's not what you said. You said the reason we won't get the Civic Type-R is because it will steal sales from the Acura RSX and that's the point I was arguing. You only said the Si will be coming out in '02.. I don't really see how a 200hp car will steal sales from a 170hp one if they 're priced comparably, and especially if one is a coupe (Si) and the other is a hatchback. I just don't see the relation. Besides, if the CTR ever made it to North American shores, it would be in limited #s like the ITR, of which we only got about 750 in '97, 1100 in '98 and 1350 in '00.
  • rsparrowrsparrow Posts: 60
    Well, according to Automobile magazine, Honda will be bringing the European Civic hatchback to the North American market this summer, in Si trim to boot. I think the article said to expect around 160hp. And as mentioned above, they don't expect it to ship with the same CTR engine in Europe because they don't want to affect sales in the Acura lineup--which of course isn't sold in Europe.
  • sarahvtecsarahvtec Posts: 10
    Why is it that Americans ALWAYS get the short end of the stick when it comes to performance? I've been anxiously awaiting the Civic Type R's arrival in the US since its 1998 inception in Japan and still no luck. All we seem to get is an under powered Si for 2002 while the rest of the world enjoys the thrills of true performance, being the Civic Type R. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Honda finally decided to resurrect the SI in 1999 and again in 2002 but that's little consolation. Not only does the Civic Type R look better but it handles better as well. C'mon Honda, at least give us the option of custom ordering one since they are in every country except the U.S. Also, I agree the 2002 Hatchback looks terrible (like a Ford Focus) but the Civic Type R tries to remedy this with a stylish body kit, grey headlight housing, mesh grille, race seats, massive brakes, killer suspension, etc. What's not to like? Okay, the HUGE headlights have to go but other than that it's stunning! Any ways, I hope your listening Honda or anyone for that matter. Please bring the Civic Type R before God takes me from this place... Thank you
  • mdrivermdriver Posts: 385
    The Civic Type R will actually be sold in the U.S.. It will have an Acura badge on it. The reason that the rest of the world gets the Civic Type R is because they don't have the Acura brand. For instance, in the U.K., Honda sells the current Integra as the "Honda Integra".
  • kroliphkroliph Posts: 75
    It just does not matter how great the Civic type R is. For some strange reason, Honda is afraid to dominate the hatch back market in the US. The new 'Integra' doesn't qualify in this segment. The idea is to offer the most performance for the least amount of money. I believe Honda could bring the Civic type R to the states for under $20,000. If they did bring the type R here, there would be no more discussion about the SVT Focus or the more potent Sentra that will be arriving soon. It is really a shame for Honda. The amount of free publicity they would get would more than offset any losses in sales of the new 'Integra'. When are you going to wake up Honda!! I must admire Subaru for bringing the WRX the the states. I understand the response has been so great the Subaru is planning on bringing the even more potent WRX STi. That is how a company should respond to demand. Give people more of what they want!!! I understand the new RSX 'Integra' Type S will cost around 27 to $28,000. If Subaru can bring the WRX STi here for about $30,000, I'll buy one and look for RSX Type S's to drive circles around knowing I payed about the same amount of money for the Subaru as they did for their American 'Civic Type R'. Just when I thing Honda gets it they drop the ball! That is OK Honda, I'm sure other companies will pick up where you left off.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    If that's the price of the 200hp RSX Type-S then they won't sell too many at all. I 'll go out and buy a current Integra Type-R right now for $24K. I thought the price of the RSX Type-S was supposed to be a little over $20K and the base RSX around $19K.
    In any case, the RSX Type-R is the car to look out for in '03. It's supposed to have 200-225hp and all the 'R' trimmings such as huge brakes and phenomenal handling.
    At $24.4K the WRX will sell very well. If Honda can't give us comparable cars for the same or less, then I may have to buy a non-Honda for the 1st time in a while.
    The new '02 Si might the replacement for my daily commuter '97 HB though..
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    You'll find a direct link to Edmunds.com's new video clip of the Civic Type R in the Additional Resources box on the left side of this page. Let us know what you think? Happy Motoring!

    Pocahontas
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    Hatchbacks/Station Wagons Message Boards
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    is the direct link?
  • pocahontaspocahontas Posts: 802
    click on the link that says "Video Clip: Honda Civic Type R." It will take you to the Honda Video page. Actually, I guess it's not that direct of a link. However, once you're on that page, you should have no problem finding the video to the Honda Civic Type R.


    Good luck, and let me know if you have any problems accessing it....


    Pocahontas
    Host
    Hatchbacks / Station Wagons Message Boards

  • kroliphkroliph Posts: 75
    If the Civic Type R were sold in the United States, this topic would matter. I'm sure it is a great car in other countries. But we are never going to see this car in the US. I really do not understand Honda's logic in this decision. Just bring the car to the US and let the people who buy decide.
  • only1harryonly1harry Posts: 1,136
    The previous Civic Type-Rs were all white. This is silver. I'm starting to like it. Too bad we 'll probably never get it here. It is the same body style as the Civic Si though, without the spoilers and side skirts. I 'm sure the body kit will be available for the Si's though..


    image

  • diploiddiploid Posts: 2,286
    At first I didn't like the Honda hatchbacks cause they looked too girly. But I have to admit, they're starting to grow on me!
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