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Your Thoughts Regarding The New 54.5 MPG Mandate

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Comments

  • roho1roho1 Posts: 317
    Lukoil? Never heard or seen of them before and from the sound of this I won't be stopping at one now. Russian Oil Company? What going on?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,040
    Lukoil stations are located in the northeast and mid Atlantic states. They bought Getty back in 2000 and converted to their name. In 2004 they bought a huge Mobil dealer and converted all of those.

    Russian Oil Company? What going on?

    Well we live in a global economy. BP = England. Shell = Dutch. Conoco/Phillips owns 10% of Lukoil.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,207
    This is why I go to Sunoco for gas. Sunoco = Philadelphia. ;)
  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    Given the history of corruption and lousy quality, why would anyone pay more for a Russian product? You've probably got better odds at a no name station. I can't imagine why people even consider buying Lukoil gas, especially at a premium price?
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,333
    edited September 2012
    Maybe it works better in G-Wagens and other Russian mafia (where the money really goes) staff cars?

    At least there's no Chinese fuel concern here.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,040
    Given the history of corruption and lousy quality, why would anyone pay more for a Russian product? You've probably got better odds at a no name station. I can't imagine why people even consider buying Lukoil gas, especially at a premium price?

    Yeah, I'll stick to that Venezuelan or Middle Eastern gas. Those folks are so much nicer. :)

    I'm not saying people have to buy Lukoil. Heck, most likely the gas that Lukoil sells their dealers wasn't refined by them. Lukoil doesn't have any refineries here so I presume they buy gas from other refiners.

    You have to remember that most stations are not owned by the people the operate them. They are usually owned by the refiner or another party. The operators lease the stations and part of that lease often is that they have to buy their gasoline from the marketer - in this case Lukoil. Lukoil is free to charge their dealers whatever they want. It doesn't matter that Shell is charging its dealers less.

    Also, gas for these dealers is typically a loss leader. The goal is to get people into the station to buy coffee, soda, milk, rolling hot dogs, et al. That's where the money is at gas stations.

    I mentioned a cousin that owned an Exxon station. In reality he and a partner leased two. One was an inner city full serve with a repair bay. The other was a suburban kwik mart just of the highway. In the city he often charged $0.50 more per gallon than the highway mart because pumping gas took time away from his repair business. But it was full serve and he got to know the locals and got them back for service work. The kwik mart barely broke even on gas sales but made about 95% of it's profit on the sale of everything else. In both cases, selling gas wasn't the important part of the business. It was there to drive the other items.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    Yeah, I'll stick to that Venezuelan

    Funny you mention that. It seems like Citgo gas stations are fading away.

    I understand the process at gas stations, but I thought someone said Lukoil sold for a premium (even when the dealers weren't jerking the pump price in protest). I really just don't understand why many consumers pay premiums for gasoline compared to nearby stations with other brand names. It seems like in the Midwest BP (formerly Amoco and Standard) gets a dime or so more than say Shell. In the west, buyers seem to pay more for Shell.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    edited September 2012
    I was in Mackinaw City MI a couple of days ago and needed gas before crossing the bridge. It's a tourist spot and the Citgo is the first station you notice as you approach town. I wanted an extra map so first I went to the welcome center and saw that gas at the Marathon a block away was $4.05. Drove up to the Citgo and the sign said $3.99. Cool. Guy came out and wanted to pump it; said it was the same price whether I did it or he did. Also cool.

    Then I looked at the pump and regular was $4.29. I called the guy over and said, what's the deal? He said kerosene was $3.99 and looking at the big sign again, there is was.

    What idiot station other than a bunch of greedy crooks advertises kerosene where you expect regular to be?

    I went back to Marathon.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    Dang, that's low! What's next... full service at gun point? :sick:
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,040
    I really just don't understand why many consumers pay premiums for gasoline compared to nearby stations with other brand names. It seems like in the Midwest BP (formerly Amoco and Standard) gets a dime or so more than say Shell. In the west, buyers seem to pay more for Shell.

    It's all marketing. The major brand names (Shell, Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, et al) tout their additives and the benefits they provide. It's up to the consumer to decided whether or not that's important to them.

    Around my area, the big second tier brands are Hess, Irving, AL Prime and Cumberland Farms/Gulf. None of these market additives and typically run 10-15 cents less per gallon than the first tier. I very rarely use the first tier brands unless I'm desperate.

    One thing I have noticed recently is the spread between 87 and 93 octane. It used to be 20 cents per gallon. Now the spread is approaching 40 cents. Even when gas was around the same price a few years ago, the spread was never this high.
  • fezofezo Posts: 9,444
    I never used to worry about Top Tier gas (Exxon, Mobil, Shell, Conoco, 76, Phillips 66 and NOT Gulf, Lukoil, BP and Sunoco - google top tier gas for more explanation until I had to get a set of fuel injectors cleaned. You can also add Techron, the best of the detergents available at most auto parts stores, but not someplace like Wal Mart every 3,000 miles or so. Or do both...
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    edited September 2012
    I got some Techron at Walmart not long ago. May be a store or regional thing.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • fezofezo Posts: 9,444
    Ah! Could be. This one has shrunk its automotive section to put in more groceries. There's a Super Wal Mart 15 miles up the road but I dread going to it.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    edited September 2012
    I avoided them until we moved to the UP. Now going to one is like going to Macys, the Bon, Nordstrom, Home Depot, Target, Best Buy and Whole Foods, all rolled into one. :shades:

    Costs me a few bucks in gas to get there though.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,275
    Try a Menard's!
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    Oh yeah, got quite a few things from those guys. But WallyWorld is still closer.

    Radio today said winter gas was in the pipeline and that it was cheaper to refine so the prices should go down. I thought all the ethanol in gas made winter and summer blends a thing of the past.

    Regular here is up to $4.10. Getting 26mpg on the road in the van is okay, but 54.5 would sure be better.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,332
    Hey, 26 mpg is pretty good for an old van. Considering that it's ~85% depreciated it's cheap transportation for something so roomy.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,040
    Ah! Could be. This one has shrunk its automotive section to put in more groceries. There's a Super Wal Mart 15 miles up the road but I dread going to it.

    I dread all Wal Marts. They are my last resort.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    I second that!
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,786
    Good article about the complications of CAFE. Remember how there used to be one standard for cars and another for "trucks" including SUVs? Well, the new standards make that difference even more extreme, according to this good article:

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2012/10/how-cafe-killed-compact-trucks-and-stat- ion-wagons/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    That could effectively kill subcompacts and compacts.

    They actually end up being penalized for being efficient now. Plus it's harder to make improvements when they are already pretty efficient.

    We'll end up with long wheelbase everything and no small cars at all.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    "A move toward more fuel-efficient vehicles has helped American car manufacturers navigate the latest surge in fuel prices with relative strength.

    “all of Detroit’s continuing models became more fuel efficient, and Detroit’s market share continued to be higher” than in the 2008 period, even as Japanese car makers became more competitive."

    U.S. Car Makers Navigating Gas-Price Surges Better (WSJ)

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    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,150
    LOL, obesity means 54.5 mpg may end up being high 30s for most drivers.

    Eh, just doing the conversion from the raw CAFE numbers to what gets dumbed down and put on the window sticker probably translates to high 30's right there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yet they stubbornly refuse to correct the system since they'd have to advertise lower numbers. :mad:
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    The funny thing is that the CAFE requirements don't take obesity into the equation, so why is this being mentioned at all? From a personal fuel economy perspective, it might be a factor. They way they presented it, though, is a non sequitur.

    I suppose if some obese guy was upset that his new car wasn't returning the mileage he expected, he could make an issue of it. :confuse:
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    People complain about real-world mileage not meeting expectations all the time.

    Funny thing is driving style is the biggest factor, by far.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    Sure is. Of course, there are also those crawl-style commutes (yes, driving style influences that as well) that aren't really considered in the calcs either. People just need to understand that it is all an estimate.

    In the anti-responsibility, instant-gratification age, though, that isn't a popular notion!
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,963
    edited October 2012
    On the road this weekend. This afternoon we passed a Honda Insight that was drafting a gasoline tanker in the right lane of the interstate, going about 60 in a 70 zone. 54.5 was a definite possibility for him.

    At the motel tonight here in Minneapolis, there are two cars from Iowa parked next to each other. One's an Insight and one's a Prius. Will have to try to spot them at the free breakfast tomorrow.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,686
    I wonder if they're traveling geese-style. :shades:

    Where ya headed, Steve? At any rate, enjoy the trip!
    2010 Subaru Forester, 2011 Ford Fiesta, 1969 Chevrolet C20 Pickup, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250 Pickup, 1974 Ford Pinto Wagon
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