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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    OTOH, the other day I was watching a nature program featuring proof positive that chimpanzees were not only using tools they made to stab and acquire bushbuggys out of hollowed out tree branch trunks, they were teaching the young ones how to do it too..
    So in thinking more about your comment...maybe we're being a bit too hard on the chimps, haha

    That link tho, shows the most extreme case of rebellion on a bike I have ever seen. For anyone who rides, you can see that they are SO high that the bike is barely controllable. His brain will be a bit starved of blood too..trying to keep blood pumped up into his arms..
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,448
    A friend of my coined the term "biker crucifixion" for riding bikes with ape hangers.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    >>>>>>>>City streets beat the crap out of a car. That's why I drive a tough and durable Grand Marquis as my daily beater. >>>>>>>>>

    So, why is your city in such poor repair?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,701
    I've ridden bikes since I was 12 (almost 59 now), in every state but Hawaii, as well as in a large part of Western Europe, but since I hit 50, my riding has greatly diminished.

    Be careful out there. A coworker for many years, about 60 years old, was riding home from work last year. He was the nicest most careful guy around. Headlight on, helmet, etc. He was on a two lane road and went through an intersection at the speed limit (50mph) and an oncoming Ford F150 that didn't see him due to the sun behind him left-turned right in front of him. There were just a few feet of skid marks before the impact.

    He had his first grandchild that was under 1, and his wife was retiring in a month from her teaching job. They had just bought an RV to tour the country together. So sad.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,346
    Gosh I'm so sorry to hear that. Left turns in intersections are just about as bad a risk as it gets for a rider. I feel especially badly for those who he left behind so early. Yes..so sad indeed.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,701
    Thanks gimmestd.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,361
    My aunt's husband was killed on a motorcycle in our small town in 1955--three years before I was born. I heard that story every time I ever mentioned 'motorcycle' in our house. I rode on them, but never drove one or bought one.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    Had 2 bikes in my life, one early teens and then one in my '20's. The second one was a Honda V-45 (~90 HP) 750CC.

    After watching a race up in Laconia, NH during the annual MC week, way back in the early '80's, a racer lost it on one of the bends and mixed it up with his bike during the crash. (The racer never got up and the ambulance crew did a good job at the scene to remove him from the track.) I was less than 30 ft. from the start of the crash.

    I sold the bike within a month after getting back home.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,594
    When I was a kid, the neighbor kids had a motorized dirt bike...essentially a kid-sized motorcycle. One day, we were playing on the rock piles at a construction site up the street. They let me ride it, and it was fun, although I did wipe out on a hill.

    That evening at dinner, I told my Mom that the neighbors got a dirt bike. She said she knew, and that she saw me crash on it, as she was coming home from work, and had a pretty stern look on her face. Needless to say, there was a lot of awkward silence the rest of the evening, and I think that squashed any fantasies I ever had about owning a motorcycle!
  • Let's all try to get back on topic folks! Thanks :)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    OK.

    Reuters) - The U.S. government has booked a loss of $9.7 billion on the nearly $50 billion bailout of U.S. automaker General Motors Co (GM.N), according to a quarterly report to Congress on Tuesday.

    Talk about drifting!:)
  • Well again, and I KNOW what I'm going to say irritates some people out there, but the government was choosing the lesser of two evils here---to not fund GM and have it collapse completely, and have to deal with all the welfare associated with that massive lay-off (the rippling effect of which was completely unknown, meaning could it go down the line to suppliers, truckers, who knows what) OR to take a risk that the bail out wouldn't cost as much as the alternative.

    And, no, throwing everyone to the wolves was not a viable 3rd choice.
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 330
    edited November 2013
    Detroit and Nissan do well. well. Gm up the most. VW a loser and Hyun-Kia an almost loser...

    http://www.ibtimes.com/here-are-october-2013-big-eight-us-auto-sales-numbers-gm-- ford-chrysler-toyota-honda-nissan-1451010
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,284
    Choosing the lesser of two evils is one theory, and your opinion. Choosing the greater of two evils is another theory, and another opinion.

    For instance, some might say they (the gov't) were bailing out GM for the sole purpose of winning re-election 4 years later knowing that Michigan and Ohio would favor the bailouts and reward the free handouts with a vote.

    They are 2 battleground States after all.

    If you say but Bush started the bailouts and he didn't have a re-election to worry about, I'd counter:

    1) Bush didn't want the collapse of GM and Chrysler to technically be during his watch.

    2) Vanity and Ego to prevent it from happening during his tenure.

    3) Keeping consistent at always doing the wrong thing; why change at the end of your 8 years?

    :)
  • Well, if a bailout prevents massive welfare outlays AND wins an election, what's not to like? Think of it as the reward for doing the right thing.

    Of course, the problem in addressing critics is that one doesn't get to see how the other plan panned out (let 'em rot, basically).

    In my view, there was NO upside to letting GM collapse. Aside from airy speculation about a future filled with sunlit uplands populated with invigorated zeal among the surviving automakers just dying to employ 256,000 bankrupt GM employees, I don't see any concrete rebuttal to the government bailout that doesn't seem the greater evil.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    GM failed. It cost a lot. Live with it. I am....without supporting further failure.:)
  • If you mean a 2nd bailout, no, I agree---that won't happen. A political third rail.

    I do have to shake my head, though, when the rap sheet is read on the UAW, and GM management is always left out of the blame game.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,258
    edited November 2013
    The "GM Management of Failure" always spun failure into success. At lease SOME of the current management admitted they made Crappy Cars in the past.

    GM is no longer making crappy cars but it cost a lot to change the game. Too bad the past disease remains alive and well underlying a basis for failure once again.

    Not saying Toyota or Honda are any better, just for the record. They are having their fun with crappy parts!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/11/02/honda-odyssey-minivan-recall- /3370177/
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,448
    "Well, if a bailout prevents massive welfare outlays AND wins an election, what's not to like? Think of it as the reward for doing the right thing. "

    From a political POV, it was a no-win situation with about 50% of the citizenry.

    "Of course, the problem in addressing critics is that one doesn't get to see how the other plan panned out (let 'em rot, basically). "

    Critics of any action can always talk about how things WOULD have been if their preferred course had been taken.

    "In my view, there was NO upside to letting GM collapse. Aside from airy speculation about a future filled with sunlit uplands populated with invigorated zeal among the surviving automakers just dying to employ 256,000 bankrupt GM employees, I don't see any concrete rebuttal to the government bailout that doesn't seem the greater evil."

    I totally agree. I don't like it, simply because the entire episode was preventable if both the UAW and management had taken earlier action (after all, economists had been predicting GM failure since the 70's if no action was taken to reign in legacy costs). But, no one blinked, and the car industry in the US drove off a cliff.

    What's done is done. Time to move on...
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,361
    Since the '70's? That's news to me. That's when GM creamed everyone else in sales each year, by the hundreds of thousands if not more.
This discussion has been closed.