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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They're often reported more than once, too, making the totals seem artificially high.

    I don't like when studies publish "most" lists but don't account for sales volume.

    Example: Camcord are the cars most often stolen.

    Well DUH!

    What I want to know are what are the odds of a specific car getting stolen, and to make it applicable maybe even how insurance rates compare for that model.

    If Toyota sells 100,000 Camrys and 1000 of them are stolen (1%), then they sell 10 FJ Cruisers and 3 of them are stolen (30%), then it's the FJ owner that should be worried, not the Camry owner.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    IMO, BMW seems to look at recall issues a bit like the proverbial ostrich... The company just buries its head in the sand and hopes the issue will go away.

    What's difficult for me to understand is the number of years covered in the last 2 major recalls. On the 5-series, IIRC, it was over 10 years, and its well over 5 years on the latest recall. It just seems odd that no one would realize a problem is indeed a problem for such an extended period.

    I have one car covered by the latest recall, but if I've had a problem, its been so minor I haven't even noticed it.

    IMO, recalls are just the new reality for all carmakers in today's world. AFAIC, unless a recall is for something major, like an exploding gas tank or sudden, warning-less total steering/brake failure, I don't see it as a major issue, other than a black eye for the manufacturer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited February 2013
    I agree, in fact what I think we've seen over the past couple of years is a "catch up" period for issues that have existed for a while.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    A BMW spokesman said the company stands by its sales figures.

    Gee... What else would a spokesman say?

    "You caught us... We lied!"
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    What I want to know are what are the odds of a specific car getting stolen, and to make it applicable maybe even how insurance rates compare for that model.

    I agree, and there's one more piece of information I'd like to know... The recovery rate.

    If Camcords are the most stolen, but mostly taken for short joyrides and recovered, how does that compare to high-dollar rides stolen and possibly never seen again?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Or all the SUVs that are stolen and taken across the border in Mexico. Good luck recovering those.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Taking a leaf from Apple, BMW dealers will hire product explainers

    Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130213/ANE/302159998#ixzz2LSbU3400
    Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

    Cars have become so complicated. It's sad that this is needed, but I actually think it's a good idea.

    If I visit a BMW dealer that's the first person I would talk to. Maybe the only one.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited February 2013
    I saw that a day or so ago...

    This is a comment I thought was rather obvious about just about anyone who has a job doing anything...


    The salesman has a complicated job," said Ian Robertson, BMW board member for sales and marketing. "He has to understand product, he has to be trained and he has to understand financial services.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    The salesman has a complicated job," said Ian Robertson, BMW board member for sales and marketing. "He has to understand product, he has to be trained and he has to understand financial services.

    I'm sure we've all been in dealerships where we act a bit dumb and the sales person obviously knows much less about the car than we do.

    I'm amazed that auto dealers let people so ill-informed sell their cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    And all the models at auto shows. Go off script and they're completely lost.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,164
    MB should hire "geniuses" - I'd apply. A couple people I dealt with told me I should be in there selling (as I have product knowledge), but I am not a seller, I am more like "if you don't want to buy it, fine, see ya".

    The salesperson I worked with and the prepper or whatever it can be called (handled test drive, paperwork - he told me he wasn't on commission) had both been in the job 20+ years, and were well enough informed. The main salesman even drives a nearly identical car to my new ride.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I could probably do it for Subaru, and I'm about as far from a salesman as you could get.

    In fact I think they'd need to train us not to turn people away.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I'm not being vain, but I don't believe I've ever bought a new Chevy where the salesman knew as much as I did about the product. Some, should have been ashamed, they were so ill-informed.

    Some of this might be warm and fuzzy feelings on my part, but the most knowledgeable salesman I ever dealt with, was the older fellow who sold my Dad his new Chevys and had been the dealer's Service Manager before selling cars. He sold me my first new car, in January '81. In our small town, if you were a jerk salesman, it got around quick. Everybody liked this guy. I saw him a couple years ago, shortly before he died, and he didn't remember me but remembered my Dad and said I looked like him. He apologized for having some dementia.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You'd be totally qualified to be a Chevy Genius, if they had 'em.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    MB should hire "geniuses" - I'd apply. A couple people I dealt with told me I should be in there selling (as I have product knowledge), but I am not a seller, I am more like "if you don't want to buy it, fine, see ya".

    What do you think of the C-class. I really like the size and looks of the current style have been thinking about buying a 3-ish year old one. I would like stick and I guess that's not available, sadly.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    You'd be totally qualified to be a Chevy Genius, if they had 'em.

    The posters on this board would probably be more qualified than 80% of the salesmen out there. :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They should come recruit people from here.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    I'm not being vain, but I don't believe I've ever bought a new Chevy where the salesman knew as much as I did about the product. Some, should have been ashamed, they were so ill-informed.

    That's basically been my experience too. Boats, cars, SUVs, PWC (jetskis), and RVs, I've bought and shopped them all and rarely run into a sales person that has a clue, usually they are full of crap. I've run into a few that knew the product, but that's been rare.

    Trucks can be a real problem. Particularly if have specific cargo or towing needs. I almost got burned on an Expedition when I was shopping for SUVs. I didn't realize there was an HD towing package above the standard towing package and the salesperson told me they were all rated to tow 9k lbs. I almost bought a model that only had the standard tow package and a 6k tow rating. Fortunately, I did a bit of research on my own.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    They should come recruit people from here.

    I've always enjoyed sales, but the problem with selling cars and other "retail" type products are the hours. I have a friend that has been a successful car salesman for over 20 years, his hours just suck. Evenings, 10-12+ hour days and Saturdays, no thanks. The weekends are a big issue for me.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    I don't know if you are all familiar with the latest internet fad - the Harlem Shake. Well I found a link where it has infected edmunds.com!!

    Edmunds is shaking
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,164
    They are fine cars. Not nearly as many issues as some older ones. No stick for a few years, though. Buying new can be pricey, but there will be some blowout prices and leases when the new model is announced. Eventually there will be a US-built version, too.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,164
    I wouldn't be good at applying the pressure. And yes, turning people away - or advising people not to buy too much car. 18 year old devilspawn of an investor visa nitwit with a week old license wants a SLS? Not so fast.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I would recommend whatever gave me the highest bonus! :D

    SLS? No, you need the roadster, so people can SEE you, kid!
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    I'm not being vain, but I don't believe I've ever bought a new Chevy where the salesman knew as much as I did about the product. Some, should have been ashamed, they were so ill-informed.

    I absolutely agree.

    While cars have grown to be far more complicated than they were in, say 1980, what product hasn't? So, more complicated is no excuse, IMO...

    From my experience, the car salesperson that really invests his time wisely by learning the product he's selling can do well.

    I won't limit it to cars sales, though... I see the same thing at places like Best Buy, cellphone stores, etc.

    I find I routinely know far more about a product I'm interested in buying than the person selling it to me. Is it any wonder so many avoid the salesperson experience, and but off he Internet?

    Too few salespeople see learning their product as a wise investment.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,579
    edited February 2013
    I could sell minivans. Assuming the buyer wanted to pay cash. If they wanted to lease or pair their phone, I'd run for the exits. :-)

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'd be upselling all the tech options and helping them pair phones they didn't know had bluetooth.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    I agree that knowing trucks is harder than knowing cars...and always has been.

    Back when new Chevys were a hobby for me, instead of like now, I knew every option and model, but even then, trucks were confusing because of the plethora of axle ratios, capacities, sizes, ad nauseum. A good truck salesman really has to know what's right for his customer...or more likely, the customer has to know.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    edited February 2013
    A good truck salesman really has to know what's right for his customer...or more likely, the customer has to know.

    The guy I know who sells Chevy specializes in trucks. He definitely knows Chevy trucks inside and out and all of the different configurations along with capacities etc. It may depend on the dealer and location too. I'm sure here in central Illinois, truck sales are large enough to justify a specialized truck sales staff.

    But yeah, in general trucks are far more complicated to sell than cars these days. Heck, I know what I'd want and I sometimes get confused. Different cabs and beds, along with other options have a big affect on cargo and towing capacity.

    The customer needs to know what they want or need and the sales man needs to understand what questions to ask.

    You can't just ask "how much does the trailer you tow weigh?". It's more complicated than that. Towing a 26' 8k lb boat is a lot different than towing a 8k lb 30' box or travel trailer. Many people don't understand that. Sure my Expedition is rated to tow 9k lbs. But it really isn't if I have 8 people in it and a weeks worth of gear on the roof rack. If I attempted to pull a 9k lb trailer with 15% tongue weight, it wouldl be severely overloaded and unsafe due to exceeding the GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) and possible the GCWR (gross combined vehicle weight rating), not to mention being over the rear axle weight rating.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Some video is out now:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/22/hyundai-elantras-alleged-unintended-accelerat- ion-sends-teen-po/

    I don't see how the throttle gets stuck, the hydraulic brakes fail, and the transmission can't shift to neutral all at the same time.

    I bet he was speeding and didn't want to get caught, so he just kept his foot in it.

    The family says they are not yet ready to talk - why? Trying to get the story straight first?
This discussion has been closed.