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The Current State of the US Auto Market



  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337

    I'm being presumptuous, but as an owner of two Cobalts, it's hard for me to imagine the ignition switch moving enough from 'run' to 'lock' by itself. 'Run' to 'on', OK.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,598

    @uplanderguy said: I'm being presumptuous, but as an owner of two Cobalts, it's hard for me to imagine the ignition switch moving enough from 'run' to 'lock' by itself. 'Run' to 'on', OK.

    That doesn't seem to be the issue. The causes cited are travel over a very bumpy road or a heavy key chain. I'm guessing the ignition switch is strained and cuts power to the engine.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    edited February 19

    Kia Optima Reliability 2011-2013: TrueDelta - Better than the 'Bu. :)

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 38,927
    edited February 19

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't a driver be able to stay in control of a car when the ignition turns off? And she's driving 58 mph on a two-lane in the rain at night?

    Alcohol may have been involved in some of the other ~21 crashes and five other deaths.

    What gets me is GM's statement that the "crashes occurred under unusual circumstances in which the cars were being driven across dirt and rough terrain. Neither model was designed to be an off-road vehicle."

    That sounds like a crock. I bet most of these wrecks weren't from people driving in "rally mode" out in the woods somewhere.

    GM recalls Chevrolet Cobalt, Pontiac G5 after fatal accidents (LA Times)

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337

    Uh, circle, I'm not seeing 2012 and 2013 Malibu reliability on True Data. Maybe you can post what you're seeing. And for 2011, the difference between Malibu and Optima is insignificant enough that they are both rated "average". In the April '13 CR, only one I have handy, the '11 and '12 Malibu 4 cyl. are both 'better than average', and the '11 Optima 4 cyl. is better-than-average but the '12 is average. The '11 turbo is worse-than-average, the '12 much-better-than-average (snickering here at that difference between '11 and '12).

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    edited February 20

    The repair frequency on TrueDelta is as follows: (less is better)

    • 2011 Optima = 35
    • 2012 Optima = 32
    • 2013 Optima = 18

    • 2009 Malibu = 78

    • 2010 Malibu = 64
    • 2011 Malibu = 41

    Can't see the other years.

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627

    Gm suggesting to only use the key alone in the ignition is a bunch of crap. I have a hard enough time keeping track of one set of keys. Then again I don't have a bunch of keys plus a fuzzy bear and mace hanging from my keychain either;)

    Loosing power steering at the wrong time can be a big deal. My grandpa totaled a 69 or so Catalina when the PS failed on an on ramp and he ended up on the guard rail. I guess it wasn't totaled when he put it on the rail, but the tow truck finished it off trying to get it free.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337
    edited February 20

    The difference between 35 and 41 is insignificant enough per them to make any difference in rating...both are 'average'. Thank you for confirming that unlike what your first post said, there is no information on the '12 and '13 Malibu to report on. That may mean there are no complaints.

    Interesting to note that there is no differentiation in results to split out four versus six, or four versus turbo four (especially troublesome at least per CR).

    You'd have to show me something humongous to make me move from an American-built, American-sourced car from an American company, to switch to something that, first, looks like the Optima, tests like the Optima in CR, and is from a Korea-owned company.

    As is so often the case, I'm stating what the whole story is, not leaving parts out. The only year which an Optima could be compared on True Data to a Malibu, was 2011, not the years your post initially reported. Shocker.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246

    Better is better. I'm sure there are no complaints for the '13 Malibu except that it lost so many sales due to the botched launch.

    Anyway, no more crappy cars is the line in the sand for 2013. Anything before that I can understand is from the "Old GM" stable and could be junk. ;)

    BTW, I originally posted the Malibu by itself. Shocker you brought up the Optima.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    edited February 20

    Lawyer asks feds to force GM to explain recall timing

    The federal safety agency officially has been asked to require General Motors to explain why it only now has recalled 619,122 U.S.-market 2005-2007 Chevrolet Cobalt and similar 2007 Pontiac G5 cars to replace faulty ignition switches blamed for at least six deaths.

    GM withheld a defect???????? SHOCKER!

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337

    The hard fact is that you, as you so often do, left our very relevant information in your post.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,635
    edited February 20

    No sense reporting on the "reliability" of a 2013 car. If a 2013 car is showing up with bad numbers that early in the game, that company is headed for the graveyard anyway.

    JD Powers only seems to use 2011 for 'reliability studies" and doesn't show the worst performers, only the "awardees" for best marks. Malibu didn't make the cut, but Buick and the Chevy Volt did.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337

    A 2012 car is two years old; it should be there.

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337
    edited February 20

    GM withheld a defect???????? SHOCKER!

    We'll see if they are fined for that, as was Toyota. You seemed to gloss over that. ;)

  • What I meant was that 2012 isn't very meaningful unless it's truly awful. Just about any car made today can run 24,000 miles without falling flat on its face (we hope).

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,337

    True that!

  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,695

    Almost any car should be able to go 50K with virtually no problems, and 100K with only minor to perhaps one slightly greater problem.

  • You'd think--but with more and more electronics, most of which are operating in a very hostile environment, I think we'll be seeing more glitches per 50K, not fewer.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246
    edited February 21

    More info on the GM Holdback lawsuit....

    Under current law, automakers are required to report safety defects to the NHTSA within five days of discovering them. Failure to do so carries a maximum fine of $35 million. Last year, Ford had to pay the maximum fine, at the time, of $17.4 million for not promptly recalling Ford Escape SUVs with gas pedals that could become stuck. The fine was increased in October of 2013. Toyota has also had to pay large fines for not promptly reporting safety issues.

    Ordinarily, when an automaker informs NHTSA that it intends to recall cars, a detailed chronology of events leading up to the recall is part of the information provided. In the case of the Cobalt recall, GM does not indicate when it first knew of the problem.

    GM is expected to provide a detailed chronology of the issue soon.

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,246

    Lance Cooper also added that Melton’s car was not equipped with the modified key GM used for the TSB #05-02-35-007A repair, despite having just left the dealership for ignition cylinder repair.

    Full text of TSB#05-02-35-007A and a full understanding of TSBs below:

    #05-02-35-007A : Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical System and No DTCs – (Oct 25, 2006)
    Subject: Information on Inadvertent Turning of Key Cylinder, Loss of Electrical Systems and No DTCs [DTC stands for Diagnostic Trouble Codes]
        2005–2007 Chevrolet Cobalt
        2005–2007 Chevrolet HHR
        2005–2006 Pontiac Pursuit (Canada Only)
        2007 Pontiac G5
        2006–2007 Pontiac Solstice
        2003–2007 Saturn Ion
        2007 Saturn Sky
    This bulletin is being revised to add a model year. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 05-02-35-007 (Section 02 — Steering).
    There is potential for the driver to inadvertently turn off the ignition due to low ignition key torque/effort.
    The concern is more likely to occur if the driver is short and has a large and/or heavy key chain. In these cases, this condition was documented and the driver’s knee would contact the key chain while the vehicle was turning and the steering column was adjusted all the way down. This is more likely to happen to a person who is short, as they will have the seat positioned closer to the the steering column.
    In cases that fit this profile, question the customer thoroughly to determine if this may [be] the cause. The customer should be advised of this potential and should take steps to prevent it — such as removing unessential items from their key chain.
    Engineering has come up with an insert for the key ring so that it goes from a “slot” design to a hole design. As a result, the key ring cannot move up and down in the slot any longer – it can only rotate on the hole. In addition, the previous key ring has been replaced with a smaller, 13 mm (0.5 in) design. This will result in the keys not hanging as low as in the past.
    Part Number: 15842334
    Description: Cover, Dr Lk & Ign Lk Key
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