Mazda Protegé

vocus

If I were paying my dealer like $300 or more for a 30K maintenance, he BETTER be giving me a free rental. What kind of car are they giving you? Also, they gonna wash and wax your car before you get it back??

I took my Jetta in last night to have the ordered parts for the dash rattle installed. They gave me a 2002 Maxima SE as a loaner car. It's a really nice ride and good handling, but the driver's seat is too hard or something. But that power, whew! It's unbelievable! And the trip computer says I am still averaging ~24mpg with a somewhat heavy foot (it's raining here today, and about 45 or so). It is a nice ride though.

mdaffron

I just called Brown's Volkswagen here in Richmond. The major service for your non-TDI Jetta is at 40,000 miles instead of 30,000, and it's $475.00.

Paul, you'll probably hit that by year's end, so you'd better start saving now! (Or looking into trading?)

Maybe we should add up the cost of the Jetta vs. the Protege, including prices paid, maintenance costs, and such. Maybe then Paul would see that he really does pay for that better warranty, loaner car program and other perks!

Meade

P.S. They won't wax the car (frankly I wouldn't want them to), but they will detail my car for me after this service -- this includes washing, vacuuming and tire shine. Not too bad for a $15,000 econobox that cost almost $10,000 less than a posh Jetta, huh?

vocus

You can solve that by taking the car to a private garage and getting the stuff like the tune-up and oil change done there. The dealers always overcharge for the maintenance packages. I never went to the dealer for the 30K on my 1999 DX, I took it to Goodyear instead. Got everything done for like $150 or something.

And as far as oil changes, my VW dealer offers a package that includes 4 oil changes and 2 tire rotations a year for the next 8 years. And the package only costs $149.95. I think that's a prett good deal. Oil changes for the Protege ES at the dealer were $30 each, and did not include a rotation.

Also, I know the Jetta costs more to own than the Protege did. A moron could see that. But you have to remember, my car's loaded with options. You would get the same treatment at the dealer with a ~$15,000 Jetta GL as I do with my ~$25,000 GLS 1.8T.

vocus

I said ~$15,000 for a GL because they have them advertised in the Sunday Sun paper here in Maryland all the time for like $14,995 or something. So it is possible to score one for that price. A more common one would probably be something like $17,000 though.

mdaffron

I routinely pay $16.95 for oil changes at my Goodyear dealer down the street from where I live. And there's little doubt that dealers gouge you for maintenance, but believe me, they'll treat you much better if you do some of your maintenance there. If you get your maintenance done elsewhere, make damn sure you keep ALL receipts and have EVERYTHING documented. One big warranty claim could cause them to doubt you got your recommended maintenance done, and if you don't have proof of what you did and when you did it, you're in a world of you-know-what!

BTW, that VW oil-change package isn't that great. Midas is offering oil changes AND tire rotations every 3,000 miles (I go about 20,000 a year, so I'd need more than six -- not four) FOR LIFE (of the car, that is). $179 here in Richmond, but I've heard people getting it for as low as $149 elsewhere.

Now, can I ask again for an answer to my post 10181? Anyone?

Meade

vocus

I go about 20K or so a year as well. But I don't have to get the oil changed every 3000 though. My owner's manual says to do it every 5000. And the Protege's says to do it every 7500 if you don't do "severe" driving.

Also, it's $31.50 for an oil change for the 1.8T engine at my Goodyear, because it takes a special oil filter that costs an extra $10 from Goodyear.

mdaffron

Sure, I could go 7,500 miles. But any mechanic will tell you that the fewer miles you go on your oil, the better it is for your engine. I know some people who get their oil changed every 2,000 miles.

Keep in mind that manual was written by a company that wants to make MONEY -- not just from car sales but from parts and maintenance too! 7,500 between oil changes is a CROCK!

Meade

dinu01

"the Protege's says to do it every 7500 if you don't do "severe" driving"

I REALLY doubt that. My Canadian manual says 8.000kms (5.000 miles) for normal driving. Severe would be 5000 kms (3.000 miles?). I stil change mine at 4.000kms.

BTW, I hit 26.000 last nite. 1.700 kms and it's due for another oil change. I'll have to see what the manual says. I think I'm due for the 2 yr.svc
at 24.000kms in 7 mths. Yikes!

Dinu

protege_fan

Big vertical rotating brushes?? Don't tell me she took it thru an automatic death washer??!!??

We may start having flurries here in Calgary too...but on the good side, it's supposed to reach +7 C today!

chicagopro

Just checked my 2000 manual...don't see any reference to that valve thingy on either Schedule 1 or 2.

Anything else?

--Dale

meinrad

I changed my oil every 7500 miles (per the manual) on my crx. I drove it 120,000 trouble free miles and the guy I sold it to drove it another 100,000 although I don't know how often he changed the oil.

I remember reading a study a few years back on NY taxi cabs. Can't remember the numbers but some got changed at around 3000 and others at 7000. They saw no apparent difference in the cars.

I think every 3000 is CROCK! (LoL, Meade). I've never changed oil in any car I've owned at less than 6000 miles and I won't change now. I'm not giving in to the propaganda the big oil companies are trying to spread.....lol.

protege_fan

I don't think it can hurt to change your oil more frequently. With the deal I have at Midas, it doesn't really matter as I get 4/year so that's about every 3 months or 5000 km (usually fairly close). Plus free tire rotation every 8000 km (basically every second oil change).

sfrat

Yeah, I think changing every 3k is wasteful, there's still plenty of usuable life in the oil. Changing every 3k I think is a clever marketing ploy by Jiffy lube that increases their business. Following their recommendation, you'd change your oil five times in 15k miles versus 3 times changing at 5k mile intervals. I change mine at 5k, easy to remember, and is still below the manufacturer specs. I did chnage mine at 3k when I first got it though right after the break in, but since then I've been doing 5k.

mdaffron

Do you change your own oil? Well, if you do, change it once at 3,000 miles and change it next time at 6,000 miles. See how much darker, thinner and smellier the 6,000-mile oil is? If you really think that crud is fine swirling around inside your engine, go right ahead!

$12 (about the price of changing it yourself using Mazda's OEM oil filter) every 3,000 miles only adds up to $396 in 100,000 miles. (Compared to $240 for doing it every 5,000 miles.) We're talking a difference of $150 in 100,000 miles. Not a bad price for a healthy engine?

BTW ... ever changed your air filter?

Meade

mdaffron

Thank you for some USEFUL information.

Meade

meinrad

the oil isn't still doing it's job? I'm sure there is crud in the oil at 500 miles. So when is the crud too much crud?

To me, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Tests have been done, and through my own experience taking cars over 100,000 miles, I just don't see the need.

Now if you plan on driving a car 400,000 miles than maybe it makes a difference. But my intent is to never have a car longer than 100,000 miles (although thats intent, reality is a little different).

LoL, this is starting to sound like the ABS discussion on the P5 side yesterday.....

chicagopro

How do you get a loaner for maintenance service?

--Dale

shrique

My old 89 Honda Civic HB had really odd symptoms. Right at about 3000 miles on an oil change the car would start to idle badly and if I went out ot about 3500 the thing would start dying on me at stoplights. However. As soon as I changed the oil it would run smooth as silk again. That was with the proper oil level and everything. I got the car at 85k and ran it out to 146k when someone got in front of me at an intersection. Did the same thing all the miles I drove it.

protege_fan

BTW, I think I have that article you're talking about in the 2000 CR Used car buying guide. I was just skimming it again last night...said that they found no appreciable difference between regular vs synthetic oil, but they still recommended synth for extreme temperature conditions.

But in terms of time between oil changes, I can't remember what the article said now.

chicagopro

Some of you may have already seen this:

http://cartalk.cars.com/Mail/Letters/2002/03.22/4.html

protege_fan

I'm still changing my oil

sfrat

This is an "argument" that no one is going to win, because everyone feels differently. I'm still not sure how Meinrad and my information is somehow not useful just because we dont' agree with you Meade.

I do agree that your not doing any harm. However, the color of the oil is not strict evidence that the quality of the oil is compromised. When I put new oil into my old cars engine with 130k miles (done myself, btw), the oil would turn black after about 600-700 miles. So would that mean I should change it sooner?

I agree 7.5 is a bit high, but there are other manufactures calling for oil changes of 10k so maybe its a trend. I still feel a piece of mind changing it sooner, and 5k strikes me as a nice balance. I think most mechanics would agree that 3k, while not harmful is not necessary. The only place I hear recommending 3k is Jiffy Lube.

Steve

mdaffron

Dale, it's the policy of my dealership that when you bring the car in for recommended maintenance, you get a free loaner. They work through Enterprise Rent-A-Car, so I'll probably wind up with a Focus or an Elantra or something like that. I might just take a digital pic of the car and post it on the Yahoo! group. Never a bad time for an impromptu car review, huh?

Oil ... well guys and gals, I'm sittin' here preaching 3,000-mile oil changes when in fact I just went the longest I've ever gone between oil changes in my 2000 ES. I had it changed yesterday, 5,000 miles since the last change. And let me tell you -- I think the Protege was getting pissed! In the last two tanks of gas (i.e. the last two weeks), my constant since new 31 mpg (commuting mpg, I get about 34 on highway trips) suddenly dropped to 26 mpg. I'm anxious to see what was the culprit: the engine idles and revs fine, so I doubt the plugs suddenly went south on me. But with all new oil, tranny fluid, coolant and plugs, I can't wait to see the difference! I'll bet my Protege is gonna act spunky and brand-spanking new again come Wednesday!

Meade

alternator

Many years ago, when few engines went beyond 100,000 miles, in Mechanix Illustrated, writer Uncle Tom McCahill got a letter which said some one had put 150,000 miles on their car with no oil changes or filter changes or lubes, and his never-to-be forgotten answer was like "that's fine for now, but in the long run-----"

rae52

Mcdaffron, why would your Mazda dealer believe there's a "need" to check the Pro's ignition timing? That's what the ECM is for. Check your owner's manual-Mazda is very similar if not identical to Honda (which I happen to own) in their respective maintenance requirements.

Have a good day.

protege_fan

LMAO!!!!!

mdaffron

Great. Who said anything about checking the timing? It's not in the list of stuff they're going to do.

Meade

mdaffron

(It was he who started the whole oil change interval debate by saying how many oil changes his Jetta would get a year in VW's package deal. So blaaaahhh.)

Know what I miss? (You young guys aren't going to know what I'm talking about ...) I miss CANS of oil. I miss my great spout that automatically opened the can and became a pourer -- all you did was shove it onto the side of the can with a reassuring "thunk." And no mess -- I HATE those newfangled plastic (more use of our fossil fuels) bottles that GLUG GLUG all over your valve cover unless you stick your finger in 'em when you invert them. BRING BACK OIL CANS!!!! (Hey -- they were recyclable too!)

Meade

vocus

I am only 23 years old, and I remember canned oil. My dad used to punch the spout down through the can and pour oil into the car when I was a kid. I tried once, and made a big mess of it. But I do remember those. I like the bottles better.

jbollt

I agree, Meade. And while we're at it, remember milk bottles? The glass ones? and soda (and beer) cans that needed an opener. And to keep the subject on Proteges, cars that needed to have zirk fittings lubed? I don't know if Proteges ever had those fittings?

Jeff

mdaffron

Nope, those beer cans and milk bottles were before my time. But seriously ... who designed those damned plastic oil bottles? Unless you use a funnel with 'em, you're almost guaranteed to spill oil on your valve cover when the oil comes GLUG GLUG GLUGGING out. Then it's the old wonderful burning oil smell for a few dozen miles ...

With the paper cans, you could crush them after you used them and a whole oil change's waste would take up about a tenth of the space in your trash can that those damned bouncing bottles do!

Meade

newcar31

Cut the bottom off a bottle of oil and woila', you have yourself a funnel.

About 3000 mile oil changes: I change the oil myself in my car and I enjoy doing it. There is something about seeing that nasty looking oil getting drained out and putting nice, new, amber colored oil in. I do it every 3000 miles because I like to do it and I know it's probably overkill. I use synthetic too. It is a piece of mind thing for me. It's overkill for most.....but, if you could choose which car you were going to buy, one that had the oil changed every 3000 with synthetic, or one that had the oil changed every 5000, which would you choose? It really doesn't cost that much more money for me to do it every 3000 miles. I probably spend less on synthetic oil changes that someone who pays for them and does it every 5000 with dino. I think when it comes time to sell my car, there will be absolutely no question as to whether or not I maintained it.

number42

On my '02 lx manual it states 7500 for normal driving, and 5000 for 'severe'. Hope that helps

mdaffron

Does it ever make you wonder why the major soda bottlers stopped refilling bottles in the 1980s? With "reduce, reuse and recycle" being all the rage these days, we've gone from re-using these bottles to throwing them away! Doesn't that seem a little ironic, now that we're trying to save landfill space and all?

Meade

mdaffron

Just keep in mind that manual was written by a company that hopes to keep you adding to its profits.

Tell me ... do you also follow the "Lather, Rinse, Repeat" instructions on your shampoo bottle?

Meade

shrique

If you pour them with the spout to the top they don't glug...however you have to have good aim. (GRIN)

I think I saw one of those old oil can spouts used in a movie....to pour gravy on something. (GRIN) PUnched it right through the top. My first thought was....did he clean that thing?

meinrad

Its funny,

One side sees the car manufacturer trying to gouge money from us by having us go longer between oil changes and therefore needing to pay for repairs.

The other side sees the oil companies tricking us into buying more oil than what is really necessary..

got to love different viewpoints....

sfrat

Don't remember that, but I do remember coke in a glass bottle (not the real tiny ones), I'm 24. It tastes better in the bottle too. I also like the pull tabs they used to have on soda and beer. Could flick them at people.

dinu01

Does anyone change more often than 2500 miles or 4000kms?

That's what I do. I think it's worth it. I don't believe in 5000miles/8000kms oil changes. Don't know why either...

Mike: Yep, the BIG BAD CAR WASH! I took it twice there, but I prefer to do it myself, although it's not too comfy to have wet pants and shoes with this weather. Problem is, whenever I wash it myself, it leaves a thin whitish film over some parts of the car (I guess more water.scrubbing would help).

Dinu

number42

You mean I'm supposed to wash my hair?

In all seriousness, Keep in mind I am a newbie to TH, as well as the world of cars. I might add that, believe it or not, I got my first drivers license only in june of last year and my Pro is my first ever car, so please don't criticise me for being naive..... cus i am not, just a newbie to this whole thing with the steeringwheel on one end and the headrest onthe other.

gandalf17

Guys,

I still have those 4 (2 each) wheel covers for the 15" rims on your 2001 LX's. I can no longer access my hotmail account becuase of company firewall restrictions. I'm trying to set-up another off-site email account and then you can let me know where to ship you the hubcaps.

Thanks,
Tim

mazdafun

Appreciate the news. Here's hoping the Ford plants produce as well as the Mazda plant.

Would love to have one of these new engines in a P5. I think the smaller ones would fit.

dotkobe

want to thank you guys for planning to visit nyc for the auto show.
nyc needs all the visitors they can get.
the traffic in nyc may be horrendeous, but wait till you see all the people!
leave your car at the hotel and take mass transportation (bus or subway).
1.50 will get you 1 ride & 1 transfer; (note: buses take only coins, and no pennies).
you can purchase an all day pass for $4.00, which will get you unlimited rides & transfers on the subway & bus for 1 day. this pass can be bought in the subway stations using the automatic machines.
if you are arriving on a weekday, best to avoid the rush hours;
use the lincoln tunnel instead of the holland tunnel or george washington bridge.

protege_fan

Thanks Tim. Let me know when you get that email addy working. Some paint got rubbed off of my steel rim and is now rusting!! Ahhhhhhh!! I really have to get my car washed and cover up that rust spot ASAP!

bean3422

Oh...several hundred (thousand)posts ago (or about 4 days in real time, I posted a question about my tires wearing out the inside tread. I just wanted to recap...yet another Mazda dealer bites the customer service dust. I took it in, and they agreed to check it out. Basically came back and said that their alignment was within specs, that it was aligned purposefully to wear the inside, and that my tires were dangerous and they would happily replace them for $150.00 apiece. NO WAY...I can get Dunlop SP5000 for $120 installed elsewhere. So I said no thanks, and asked once again if anything was wrong with my car. He says no, that it was the alignment. I say, well, since you aligned it, why should I have to pay for my tires? He says, well let me check on something. I wait 45 minutes, look him up again, and he says that my alignment is almost finished. Since I did not ask for an alignment, I assumed that it was at least free. Sure enough, another 45 minutes later, they are done and he say that they aligned it to wear the tires more evenly, and I can pick up my keys at the cashier. I said "cashier, I thought you were just being nice. You already screwed up one alignment, and I would have taken it elsewhere." He says, sorry, alignments are not covered under warranty. I said I didn't want an alignment, and he says he thought I did. So, I thought about going to the owner, but I am waiting until I get he alignment checked elsewhere. If it is out of spec, then I will go make a stink, but if not, then fine, I paid them for an alignment rather than someone else. All I know is they lost my business when I buy my MPV in a few months.

mazdafun

I use sythetic. Personal preference. I think it starts more smoothly when it's below freezing and when it's above 90F. Since I plan to keep my cars until they fall to pieces (or my wife makes me sell them to keep me to only 2 vehicles...an RX8 or a turbo P5 are awful tempting thoughts), I figure it's worth the extra money.

I also lament the plastic bottles are not recyclable, although the metal cans were before I started changing my own oil (or before I started driving, although I certainly remember seeing them at service stations).

I change according to the color and look of the oil on the dipstick. If I see a lot of black powdery specks, or it looks too dark or smells even remotely burnt, I change it. I figure the oil filter has given out before the oil has, but I've tried to change just the oil filter before and the resulting mess is a good enough reason to just drain and replace the oil too.

Typically, I go 3000 to 5000 miles between oil changes. It depends on how temperate the weather is and how hard I push the engine. I do notice slightly improved economy 1-3mpg after an oil change. I've been tracking my economy for 5 years now on both my cars. It's a noticeable event.

mazdafun

Seems the average Mazda dealership experience is subpar. My local ones have been spotty, although they've been improving of late. Helps now that there are 5 instead of 3 and that Mazda corporate is pushing on them more to improve themselves.

bean3422

Just wanted to say thanks for those of you who made suggestions. I was really hoping I would get a set of tires out of this, but looks like I will be buying a set tomorrow. After much deliberation, I am getting the Dunlop SP Sport 5000. I would love to get the Bridgestone S-03 Pole Positions, but I live in Virginia, and we do get enough snow to justify all-season tires, but not enough to justify a set of snow tires. Oh well, I'm sure the 5000s are leaps and bounds ahead of the Potenza re92s that are on it.

protege_fan

How old is your pro? Alignment is covered for a specified number of kilometres/miles, IIRC. Check your owner's manual.

vocus

It's covered for 12 months or 12,000 miles under the "adjustment" period of any new car.