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Mazda Protegé

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  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    First of all, you compared the wrong tires. I'm talking about the Yokohama AVID T4, not the V4. Interestingly, even though the AVID T4 is a T-rated tire, here's the comparison you should have made:

    Yoko AVID T4 / BFG Touring T/A VR4

    PRICE $61 | $77
    HANDLING RATING 7.5 | 7.8
    DRY TRACTION 8.2 | 8.2
    WET TRACTION 7.6 | 7.3
    SNOW TRACTION 6.2 | 5.5
    RIDE COMFORT 8.1 | 7.7
    NOISE COMFORT 8.2 | 7.8
    WEAR 7.4 | 7.4
    TREADWEAR RATING 420 | 360
    TRACTION RATING A | A
    TEMPERATURE RATING B | A

    Slightly different results when you compare your tire with this one, right? The only area where mine comes in slightly lower is in the handling rating. But look at the difference in snow, wet and dry traction, and ride & noise! All this for $244 a set as opposed to $308! And my speedometer stays accurate!

    Which brings me to your next error. Think about it. Your tires have a larger diameter, so they travel farther per revolution -- and your engine makes fewer turns to go the same distance as it did with the stock 195/55s. Your car is now traveling 106 feet farther per mile, even though your front axle is making exactly the same number of revolutions as it did before. Therefore your speedometer, which calculates speed based on engine speed, will read 70 when you're going about a mile and a half faster than that.

    Here's a link you can use that will prove my point:

    http://www.paspeedo.com/calculator.htm

    Meade

    P.S. I'm not fighting either! I'm debating! ;-)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    No one here talked you into buying that Jetta! Hee hee, a whole set of four tires for my Protege for just a few bucks more than ONE tire for your car ...

    As a former European car owner (Saab), let me prepare you for more shock and abhorrence: Wait until you price parts when your car's warranty ends!

    Meade

    P.S. BTW Paul ... TireRack sells the Michelin Pilot XGT H4 in your car's size for $149. Still not cheap, but a lot cheaper than $212. It has the same UTQG rating of 400AA as yours. Sure, it's H-rated ... but do you really see yourself going faster than 130? Ooops, wrong question to ask you ... ;-)
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    Here's a quick expensive story to share. Happened Sunday night. Snowy residential streets, ice underneath as I found out, the curb and the PRO.

    ACT I

    Making a right hand turn from a "connecting street" (not a major thoroughfare, but not a small residential street either) into a small res. street, going slowly, the PRO slid right into the turn as soon as I turned the steering wheel and hit the curb (sidewalk). In those seconds I made the decision to just let it slide until it hits the curb as there were no cars around. My other choice was to make the wheels perpendicular to the curb and jump it, but since there was a tree nearby, I went for the slide. BIG impact. The PRO seemed ok so I drove off into a right hander (all ok). Drove off a few hundred meters to my cousin's house and parked it. The wheel cover was barely hanging on and I noticed the rim was bend inwards. I guess the tire absorbed the shock and the rim stopped the car. After I left I noticed it was undriveable above 50 km/h (25-30 mph); steering wheel shaking violently and the car was bouncing all over the place.

    ACT II

    Today at Mazda:

    Rim replaced (bend inwards AND not circular any longer)
    Allignment required
    Wheel cover cracked alongh the edges (did not replace)

    Service guy said "at least the suspension is fine", meaning that if I was to jump the curve the suspension might have been damaged and most likely so would the tree.

    ACT III

    To be continued when I get the MC bill.

    Lesson to learn:

    1. There could be ice underneath that fluffy white snow.
    2. The Potenzas can stick to snow ok, but do nothing on ice.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I don't see myself going above 120, so maybe the 130 would work. But I don't wanna alter the handling of the car any, as I like it alot.

    And as far as the price of the parts when the car goes outta warranty, I have 50K miles of warranty. That should be at least 2 years. I have never kept a car long enough to use the warranty though... :)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Except I did it in 1982 to my dad's 1980 Pontiac Grand LeMans. Same thing -- on the ice, covered with snow, right into a curb with the left wheel, going about 20. WHAM! Same thing -- bent wheel and damaged (slightly) wheel cover. I drove the car about a mile but the wheel was so bent it began to play out. I leaned out the window and the front left wheel was wobbling really bad! Somehow I made it to a service station where they SOMEHOW had another wheel on hand! That and an alignment and I was back on the road ... after getting the "talk" from Dad, however.

    BTW, be glad you don't have an ES. They charge BEAUCOUP DE BUCKS for those alloy wheels. I think I read here that somebody priced them at their dealer for $240. Each. Ouch. Talk about price gouging!

    BTW -- I fully agree with you on the Poortenzas' performance on ice. We have a curve near our house that's banked to the left only enough to make it comfortable at 45 mph. Thursday, when we had our ice/snow storm, I was going to work and had to fight really hard to keep the car from sliding sideways into the oncoming lane when taking that curve at 20. Hair-raising experience to say the least!

    I read in your profile that you have a 2001, and it must be a DX or LX since you have wheel covers. How'd you wind up with Potenzas? I thought they only put them on the 2000 and earlier ES models.

    Meade

    Paul ... those Pilot XGTs are still extremely good tires. In the same theme that I don't believe our Proteges need V-rated tires, I'm a little humored that VW thinks your Jetta needs Z-rated ones, for crying out loud!!!
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    The earlier 2001 Protege LX 2.0s had the Potenza tires (195/55VR15) and wheel covers. One of my friend's neighbors has one like that, without the alloy wheels and power moonroof. Maybe that's what Dinu has.

    I don't think I need Z-rated tires either, but I want the handling to be the exact same as it is right now. And I also think the lower-profile tires help the cornering and stability too. Not sure about the whole thing though.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I heard the ES wheels are like $425 each, not $240.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    I do have a 2001 ES, but in Canada unless you want to spend another $3000 on the GT Package, you don't get alloys, a spoiler and a sunroof. I just added a spoiler to mine. So yes I do have the Poortenzas RE92's. The rim costs $160 CDN (was $185, but the svc guy discounted it). They had no used rims in stock and getting non-Mazda rims costs a minimum of $50/rim x 4 = $200 and it wouldn't be the original equipment either, so I didn't have much choice.

    So right now I just pray for summer (or no more below 0 weather).
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    " And I also think the lower-profile tires help the cornering and stability too." >> Didn't help me this time around. With more sidewall length the impact could have been absorbed by the tires, not the rim. But of course I prefer it like that since when it's dry, the handling is great!
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    That's precisely why I run cheap steelies in winter (with winter rubber). If I crush one in a slide, I'd rather replace a $40. steel wheel then a $300+ alloy.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    Totally makes sense to me as well.
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    Meade ol' boy. Thought perhaps you went over the hill..I'll need to check my owner's manual for recommended interval to r & r the ignition harness. It was kind of steep to do it on my V6 Contour. Any idea on dealership cost est. for this, parts and labor?

    bluong1 #6834 vocus #6837 I read 112 mph. Same on my last car. I don't really approve of that practice. Only had mine up to 104 mph so far. Felt solid.
    Also your ruined alloy. Bummer! Still if it was me I'd rather do that than bend a suspension member.

    the tire guy who "did say that tire x is probably a little overkill for a car like ours." IMO its got less to do with speed rating than with some measure of improved handling afforded by that particular tire/size, in the opinion of the design engineers. I could be wrong but I'll replace my oem Dunlops on my '01 ES with the same.

    #6854 Sporin I bought 4 steelies for 4 Michelin Artic Alpins. Easier to slide into a curb in winter right? Can air & torque my own wheels year round now.

    Off topic..My Doc said, "Lose 30 # son. Quite serious about it! So I'm not speaking to fowler3. I've had to endure repeated off-topic excursions detailing the care and effort he put into his gourmet preparation of a sumptuous ham. Even as I peck away I have a clear idea of the appearance and aroma of the ready to serve masterpiece.
    (a Homer Simpson "hmmm, ham.)

    Off topic! Off-topic! :o)
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    lol...I agree with your last point. I don't even LIKE ham that much, but fowler's description had me almost headed to the airport...figured he wouldn't mind one more for dinner. Heck, I'll shovel his snow, too, for a meal like that. :)
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    Those alloys are $433 each!

    fowler3
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    Come on down! I'll treat you to a good Southern dinner.

    yooper53, sorry about having to lose 30lbs.

    When I lived in Virginia I weighed 195. When I moved to North Carolina I started losing weight and stopped at 160. No diet, no excercise. Never did figure it out. Now I eat what I want and don't gain even an ounce.

    I think I have a photo of one of my hams right out of the oven, glistening with glaze, cloves, and crushed pineapple on top.

    fowler3
  • alot of time talking about tires.
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    >>>>BTW, according to my calculations, my BFG Touring T/A VR4 205/55/15will run slower by 1.81% compared to OEM RE-92 195/55/15
    So at speed of 100mph, BFG will show 98.2mph.
    or at 65mph it will show 63.8mph.<<<<<
    is correct.

    >>>Therefore your speedometer, which calculates speed based on engine speed, will read 70 when you're going about a mile and a half faster than that.<<<<<
    Speedo is based upon the axle/wheel revolutions, not engine speed. But your conclusion is correct.

    http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

    secondly,
    Tirerack Ratings for the Avid T4 are based more on sizes other than 195/55/15(which I believe is a rating no person who wants a low profile tire will go for due to soft sidewalls and thus fear of damage to the alloys). Thus the better comfort ride rating for T4 is based on tire with a higher and more flexible sidewall.
    Also people going for T rated tires are not looking at peformance, more so they are looking at only a long lasting replacement tire. So their vision/perception of Handling is doubtful.
    Also, I went to Avellinos to take a look at the Avid tires. I could not imagine these tires to handle snow effectively given their design.

    I also had a discussion with jake from tirerack and his opinion was that the Avid V4 is better than the T4 in wet & the V4 is same in wet performance to the BFG VR4.
    The better aspect of the Yokohama tires were the 30 day trial and 40k mileage warranty.
    Something that I noticed after I had the BFG installed...it has the rim protector built-in...goood feature.

    BTW, the AVID T4 195/55/15 tire is not available on the Yokohama website....intriguing....

    also, I'll go for a local installer rather than ordering from a website....too big a hassle to return/replace if something goes wrong....

    agreed that the T4 are cheaper, but the difference is not that much if you include the shipping+installation+lifetime rotation/balancing/flat repairs charges ;)
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    but also the ignition coils......

    the whole damned ignition system was fused.

    The new plug wires are plasma blue colored from NGK..looks funky on top of my engine...
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    I have steel wheels, NOT alloys so I didn't spend $400+, but they did cost $150CDN.

    Chikoo: Bet it looks "sporty" now... blue wires and all :)

    Fowler: That ham description sent me running for the fridge a few days ago, and now you're going to post a pic? As "Rocky" says: Just Bring It! (WWW "athlete").

    ZoomZoom79: Tires are what keeps the PROs on the road, so we like talking about them a lot :)
  • ....just got a quote for the 15" alloys for the 1999-2000 Proteges, $170.00 each plus shipping from a dealer out west. These are the older four bolt wheels.
  • Anyone with a 2001 US-market ES, what were the stock tires? Reason I ask is that I recently saw a low-miles used 2001 Protege ES, and it had 205/50/16 Dunlop SP Sport 5000s. But the brochure specs say the car came with 195/50/16s. So I'm wondering if the original tires were replaced, which makes me a little suspicious.... Thanks.
  • Sporin: I agree. My steelies were 25 a piece...now I just have to worry about the REST of the car (in the winter).

    $435US for an ES alloy!! Yikes, mazdastuff.com has the Racing Hart wheel that come with the MP3 for $270US. Of course, you would have to spring for 17 inch rubber but for that price, you could!
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    The 205/50/16 Dunlops ARE oem for an '01 ES.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Don't pay someone -- especially a Mazda dealer -- to replace your plug wires. Nothing could be simpler to do yourself. Just remove each of the old wires one at a time, and replace it with the corresponding new wire (they're different lengths). The service manager replaced the ones on my '92 in the drive-in service bay (where all the service writers are) while I watched. Nothing to it. Took about a minute, if that. BTW, I haven't checked for my 2000 ES, but the wires for my 1992 were available at NAPA for $42. When my '92 hit 60K miles I bought a set from NAPA and replaced them myself. They appeared to be the same quality as Mazda's, although they were blue instead of the '92's red. I thought they looked rather cool under my hood!

    Meade
  • SporinSporin Posts: 1,066
    Just to pass on some info I've learned over the years... don't skimp on plug wires. Buy good ones, they will be around $50. I have had great luck with Bosch.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    on a set of NGK (nice brand) plug wires from a local import auto store: $41. Interestingly, NAPA doesn't sell them.

    Then, just for grins and giggles, I called up my Mazda dealer. Their price for the wires is $69.60. But then I went even a step further, and had the parts guy transfer my call to the service department. If I get it done there, it'll cost me $155!

    Glad this little debate came up; now I know where I'll be getting my plug wires!

    Meade
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    When did the larger size tires start coming with the 01 ES? That's funny, because when I had my ES (built 12/00) it has 195/50/16 tires on it.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Thanks for the invite! I've never been south of St. Louis...not sure I would know how to act around southern hospitality. :)

    ...and here's another question for everyone from the Densest of the Dense:

    Cold morning...how long do you wait for the engine to warm up: certain length of time, or should I be watching the tach?
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    Don't wait for the engine to warm up, just drive moderately for the first couple of miles. The thing is to not stress it. No fast takeoffs. Should be fine when the temperature guage needle is at normal position -- 9 o'clock.

    fowler3
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    I've always read that you let it warm up somewhere between 30seconds and a minute and then drive very easy until the temp starts to go up. Then treat it gently until it comes up to full temp. AFter that have at it. (GRIN)
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