Mazda Protegé

maltb

but my point is that if they get it wrong, they will be eating the cost of the repair. Dealers don't like to give away service, especially when warranty work isn't as lucrative as customer pay service.

fowler3

Metallic paint is also hot because the metal flake absorbs heat, which surprises many owners of silver cars. If the car was painted the same shade of grey it would be cooler.

To test heat on various colors, go to a car lot on a hot day a place your had palm-down on the roofs. White is the coolest and the car can be up to 15-degrees F. cooler inside.

I have a Sand Mica '01 Pro LX and my A/C works very good if the outside temperature is below 90 degrees. Above 90 it takes a while to cool the car down and works much better if I am driving at highway speeds. Around town it's not as effective due to frequent traffic light stops when the compressor shuts down. But it does lower the humidity.

fowler3

protege_fan

There's a difference between the temperature of the paint and the internal temperature of the cabin....anyway, that's all I'm saying.

curt3

Here in beautiful south Alabama our local school system drives a dark yellow-orange school bus much like those found in many other states. Recently, however, the distributers of our newer models have been applying white paint to the roofs in order to lower the inside temperature. Without the benefit of an A/C system, it is not uncommon for a bus to be over 120 degrees inside on a hot August day. Anyway, this paint seems to help with the cooling in combination with the windows.

Like many Alabamians I once lived in a mobile home (for 7 years). To prevent leaks during the rainy season we would apply a yearly coat of Kool Seal, a silicone-based roof treatment that was, you guessed it, white in color. Either it was the insulating effect of the silicone or it was the color of the treatment itself that made my little tin palace stay significantly cooler in the summer.

curt3

In all my ranting about white roofs I forgot to recommend Vent Visors for the Protege. I bought a set two years ago and they have been excellent helpers in calming the interior heat of my dark green Protege. I also tinted the windows. These additions have helped tame the extreme heat we experience in South Alabama. Now the humidity is another story...The A/C struggles to keep up on the hottest days.

mdaffron

Our county's new fleet of school buses (in the traditional "school bus yellow" color) all have white-painted roofs. So, by the way, do all the UPS trucks I see running around town. Seems like an awful lot of wasted taxpayer money and/or corporate profits to do something that has no effect.

Meade

(Sorry you're not talking about it anymore, Mike. I hope you don't mind if we do.)

newcar31

Our SW metro city buses are black with a white roof.

Last night I was driving behind an M3 on the freeway. I saw that he was signaling to exit the freeway at my exit. The exit is a serious cloverleaf. I see the M3 taps his brakes a couple times and he barely slowed down. I knew he was going to fly around the cloverleaf and so was I. I was at the limit around the cloverleaf and right behind the M3. I am pleased to say that my Protege held it's own against the mighty M3 on that cloverleaf.

BTW, there is a new topic in the sedans comparisons board. Jetta GL vs. Protege ES.

mdaffron

"BMW verve for less than half the price. What's not to like?"

ZOOM ZOOM!!!!

Meade

mileage

I took the car to the dealer a month ago. I have only had two episodes since then. Neither episode was as bad as the first.

meinrad

is a fact of Thermal Physics. It's obvious that if the exterior metal is hotter, than there will be more thermal transfer to the interior. The laws of physics are really quite clear. The heat will transfer from the hotter region to the cooler region, thus the hot metal transfering heat to the cooler interior.

maltb

You're slipping man! You should be all over this:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020419/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_mazda_1

Some expected news from Mazda.

rbrooks3

The a/c problem you have is in one sense a classic frozen condensor/dryer problem but I am confused, or maybe just misunderstood one part of what you said. I'll give you my opinion and then ask my question at the end. As far as the a/c's general working, I can tell you that my 02 Es with that dark back/blue combo interior was cooled very well by the a/c the last few days here in NY where it's been over 90. This includes the 45 minute drive home and short trips around town. One recommendation is to be sure you have the air intake set to recirculate so you take air from inside the car and recool it rather than taking in outside air.

Now, on to your problem. The symptom of functioning a/c followed by the same volume of air coming out but getting warmer and warmer is usually caused by one of four things. First, the electric clutch on the compressor is not working properly, so that when the signal to engage the clutch on the compressor comes on, the clutch does not engage to start the cooling process. The result is everything is working except the compressor, so there is no cooling.

The second thing is the temp sensor. There is a sensor in the car that senses the temperature of the interior and tells the clutch on the compressor when to engage. If this fails, there is no cooling. Again, same symptom, lots of air, but none of it cool.

The third possible cause is a frozen condensor. Unfortunately, if you don't do enough long-distance driving to make the problem occur, you can't check this yourself. If things are not working properly, the condensor (the part with the sight glass on it that you look for bubbles through) actually freezes. Usually this is a design problem and should be in more cars than yours. When you stop for a while, it defrosts and you're working again. This would be my guess as a faulty compressor clutch would ususally not start working again just because the car sat for a while. It could be the temp sensor though.

The fourth thing is that the a/c's radiator/intake is actually freezing up. I hope I'm not going on too long here, but this is how the system works: your comressor compresses the cooling gas and it becomes hot, when it goes through the condensor, the gases cool into a cold liquid, this is when the cool ant goes through the intake's airbox/intake/radiator whatever you want to call it. Air is then drawn from inside or outside your car (your choice) it is run over these now cold coils and blown into your car.

Now, here's my question. When you said as the system "fails" less and less air comes out, do you mean actual reduction in volume of air? If you do, the cooling coils are actually freezing in the intake/airbox. As ice forms, it blocks the air more and more so you get less and less output.

I'm not a professional mechanic so I'm not certain how the dealer would check this. As far as putting in a dye to check for leaks, I seriously doubt you have a leak anywhere in the system or else it would empty out, cvertainly within a year and it would not cool at all. If you had these problems last year and the car still cools this year, you don't have a leak.

Familiarize yourself with where the condensor is and if you go on a long drive again and it happens again, pop the hood and see if the condensor is frozen.. You will actually see the casing iced over. It will have a coating of frost.

You definitely should bring the car to another dealership as something is definitely malfunctioning. Sorry all for going on as long as I did, just trying to be helpful and specific.

newcar31

"When you said as the system "fails" less and less air comes out, do you mean actual reduction in volume of air?"

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Not only was the air warm, but there was noticably less volume even on the highest setting. I think you figured it out. I read something about this in my local paper a while ago, but I wasn't able to track the article down again. IIRC, that was the same explanation in the newspaper article. I knew someone would know. Thanks!

maltb

Not to argue here, but your description of the A/C system is not correct.

The compressor compresses the gas into a liquid but creates heat in the transition of gas to liquid. the hot liquid is then partially cooled by the condenser(which tends to run hot and does not freeze unless the system is seriously messed up). The now close to ambient temperature liquid goes inside the vehicle to the evaporator which has an expansion valve on it. The orifice on the valve causes the liquid to expand into a gas and absorb the heat in the evaporator. If this orifice freezes up after a long period the A/C will not work. There is more too it but this is the basic operation.

newcar31

what would be the "fix" for this problem?

the_big_h

hey malt, can you ask your muffler 'guru' over there what type of muffler is the sport muffler for the Pro? Straight-through or chambered?

thanks!

maltb

my guess is the expansion valve. It regulates the flow of the refrigerant into the evaporator via a temp probe on the evaporator. Nothing electronic about it on the Pro. Only cars with auto temp control would have electronic intervention into that part of the system.

maltb

yeah yeah...I'll see if I can track him down.

rbrooks3

I stand corrected, tell him how to fix it.

newcar31

They need people like you at the dealerships.

rbrooks3

Actually they need computers like this piece o' crap I have here. I didn't see your response to his question about a fix. When I load up the website, I'm getting incomplete lists of all the posts. It wasn't until I refreshed a few times that it pulled them all up including your response. I also don't see the post I made to you asking for a possible fix. I see the second one. In the first one, I asked how this could cause a reduction in the volume of air.

So, sorry to have upset you so quickly. But to insuklt me by suggesting I work at a service department! Really! If I were to work at a service department, my suggetsion would be for him to buy a new Pro! I actually had a dealership's service department suggest that to me. A Honda one! My Civic was running rough with occasional caughs, and he said if I wanted [non-permissible content removed] to idle real smooth, I shoudl buy a new one. The fact that mine was a few years old with about 30,000 miles, I suppose classified it as old and worthless.

Seriously, I didn't mean to tick you off.

draymond2

Service tech stated it is a shift sensor module?

I should have taken my brother n law with me originally, he thought it was something electrical. It turns out he was right the original transmission was fine. I think I will be taking the car to a different dealer if I have any future problems..

newcar31

I don't think you ticked him off.

maltb

I tried to address the misinformation with kid gloves. I'm sorry if I came across sounding crass.

Nobody is above reproach; I can be just as wrong as the next guy.

dsm6

That's another problem with service departments throwing parts at a problem without really determining what is actually wrong in the first place, and proving it - that's the recipe for making a repeat "customer".

chicagopro

Sorry, it had been a while...seemed like the time was right.

maltb

thanks Dale

mdaffron

Actually, I was ahead of the story. About six hours ago I tried to post the link to the Reuters story entitled, "Mazda to hold briefing on key personnel change" from auto.com, but the link kept giving me a "not found" message this morning.

Glad you kept up with the news and posted it. I've been kinda busy today -- thanks!

Meade

maltb

I'm just jealous of the 3 hour jump you folks get on us left coasters. I never doubted you my friend.

the_big_h

where's my info on the dang muffler malt!!!

chikoo

>>>Around town it's not as effective due to frequent traffic light stops when the compressor shuts down. But it does lower the humidity.<<<

???

my compressor is alive and kicking even when idling.....switching on/off every 15 seconds or so....

mdaffron

But the faster the compressor spins, the cooler you get!

Meade

chikoo

the thing is u could have A/C set at max with the fan set at '1'(min.)..... this can/will chill your tubes if u run it for an extended period of time.....
so if u want fan set at '1', never keep max cool setting.....

chikoo

..but fowler said that his compressor shuts down at low speeds....
it might be less efficient...but does not shut down on mine

maltb

The evaporator cools at the same rate regardless of the temp knob setting. The only thing the temp knob controls is the mix of heated and cooled air. With the A/C on, the evap. core tries to maintain a constant temp somewhere around 35-40 degrees.

And really, no animosity here, I promise.

mdaffron

Probably for maltb. I read that on my old '92 Protege, the compressor was designed to shut off automatically if the engine's rpms got too high, for two reasons: first, so the compressor didn't burn itself up, and second, so you could extract the most power from your engine while passing. Anybody know if the newer models (specifically my 2000) do this too?

Sometimes I'll turn my a/c off before a light turns green, or when I'm exiting a toll plaza, just so I'll have as much power as possible to blow the doors off the guy next to me. ;-)

Meade

chikoo

animosity...and you???
what did i do to make u think that?
I am shattered

/*eyes wide in disbeleif */

mdaffron

Paul, GET IN HERE!!!

;-)

Meade

maltb

My record for pissing people off in here today isn't good . Maybe I should have a liquid lunch eh?

All in good humor folks.

mdaffron

Don't say "Good Humor" around me. I'll be running down the street looking for an ice cream truck.

Meade

vocus

It's about 90 here around the DC area as well. Hot as hell outside.

vocus

I saw a pretty blue Protege ES today, it must have been a 1999 or 2000 model. It was like Big H's. That dark blue color. I always have liked that color.

And Meade, your car does look black in the pic on the Yahoo group board.

the_big_h

let me try...

and if you think my midnight blue ES looks good, you need to see the midnight blue P5 in person, I'm jealous Raymond!!

mdaffron

Like I said yesterday, it's really hard to get a camera to get the "true" color of the Emerald Mica.

Meade

mdaffron

... too cool ...

mdaffron

12000!

vocus

That's not fair Meade! You stole that post with useless information. Shame on you.

mdaffron

Hee hee hee.

Meade

meinrad

blue P5 is now kinda yellow with the pollen. Off and on rain today makes for a dirty car.

Last summer we had a good humor truck that stopped at our office each day, I hope he comes back this year!

vocus

When we were in our old office, we used to have this Good Humor knockoff truck that would come by every day or so in the summer time. I never got anything from him, but other people in the office miss that.

When I had the black Protege, I hated the pollen all over it in the summer and fall. Made for a messy looking car. So did anything, actually.