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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Sorry you have to give up the 323...getting old sucks, doesn't it? :)

    Hope this niece person can give it a good home!

    --Dale
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    You should wax the car again when the water starts beading on the surface. Usually every 6-12 months.

    Just make sure it's really clean and dry before applying the wax.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I wish I had the cash right now to get the 323, it would be a perfect commuter/runabout, and a good car for my dad to drive. Oh well. :(
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    only rear brakes, intentionally.

    An excellent front brake in that vehicle was considered a poor design.

    An excellent rear brake was a must.

    Braking force distribution, ideally for that vehicle was: 20/80 F/R

    And it was not a train!!

    Can anybody figure out what vehicle is that?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    It's 12:20 on a Tuesday afternoon! Why you tryin' to talk to me over HERE???

    KEEP UP!!!

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Gotta be ice skates, roller skates or roller blades.

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    You should wax again WHEN???

    Dale, he meant (I hope) to say "when water NO LONGER beads on the surface." But even that's not always a good indicator. I wax my car two to three times a year.

    Meade
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,322
    Heat degrades the performance of brake pads (and warp rotors etc.). Disc brakes throw off heat faster due to more air circulation, more exposed surface area. Thus, they don't "fade" as much as drum brakes (due to off-gassing off the pad, up to actual melting of the pad with the organic materials).

    On the first stomp, both designs can be made to work well (let's assume they've been designed to stop the vehicle in the same distance from the same speed). On subsequent stops (in a short period of time, like on a track or long downhills), or a long, continual application, the drums will be hotter, and take more distance to stop or slow (the disc brake will also take longer than it did on the first stop, but it'll increase at a slower rate than the drum). If it gets hot enough, you might even get your brake fluid to overheat and actually create gas bubbles. Then you're pretty much SOL.

    But for everyday driving, front disc/rear drum set-ups are OK. If you drive a lot on long downhills or race, you're better off with disc/disc set-ups and you might even get higher-temp rated rotors and pads.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,322
    I spot-clean bird droppings and other gunk I think will damage the paint severely. I just put windshield-washer fluid into a spray bottle and use that for most stuff.
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    I concur with Meade, waxing the car two or three times a year, whatever wax you are using. It seems a lot but look at that way: it still less frequent than waxing the legs...
  • boggseboggse Posts: 1,048
    I wonder if anyone makes a disc-to-drum conversion kit? ;-)
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    Sorry, got confused. When water no longer beads on the surface is when you wax again.

    I have never waxed a car yet, can you tell? :)
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Yes, discs may in fact be better overall -- note I've never said drums are better. But as Chow-Chi said, discs vs. drums in the rear really only makes a difference if you're a racer. I drive my Protege fast once in a while, and I know its limitations. I drive accordingly.

    That said, let's talk about a difference that's much more applicable with 99 percent of the driving public, including us ...

    I've had to have disc rotors resurfaced several times on several cars -- yes, even on the rear on cars I've had that have had rear discs (Saabs and Proteges) in my 21 years of driving. Yet to date, I've never had to do a darned thing to any drum brakes I've owned. My Mazda truck went through three sets of front disc pads and had its rotors resurfaced twice -- and was ready for a fourth set -- but was still on its untouched rear drums and second set of shoes -- at 117,000 miles.

    In the rear of a car, drums and shoes last much longer and cost much less to maintain than another set of discs and rotors. And money in my pocket is much more important to me than a foot or two of stopping distance. If you know your car, you're going to make it stop in a safe manner and give it the room it needs.

    And don't start spouting off about "those two or three feet may be the difference ..." C'mon folks, most panic stops don't occur when you've got 120 feet (nearly half a football field) to play with.

    One other jab -- it's really nice to have to stoop down and really sweat over only TWO wheels when I'm washing my car. My 2000 ES's rear drums keep my rear alloys nice and clean!

    Meade

    P.S. Paul: Yes.
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    Read the latest issue of Sport Compact Car. Comparo in there with the MSP and a few others.
  • dinu01dinu01 Posts: 2,586
    comment on the all-mighty brake war we have going on every few weeks here.

    Discs w/crossdrilled rotors on all 4 are good. I have a disc/drum setup on my PRO and know that the 4 discs one I test drove before I got mine stopped better.

    Dinu

    ...guess I just made a comment...
  • bluong1bluong1 Posts: 1,927
    In my 17 years driving, I only have one panic stop with a disk/drum car and never resurface any disk.

    For me the disk/disk is probably not much significantly better for a panic stop. But it helps me not involve into a panic stop situation. Many times, it happens that I see an obstacle and want to slow down, keeping my safe distance with the obstacle. I feel much more confident with a disk/disk brake when slowing down, especially at the beginning of the braking period, giving the feeling of not spending all the resources. I'm not racer, and it makes a difference for me.
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,322
    http://www.familycar.com/brakes.htm


    Seems putting a parking brake mechanism is a lot easier to do with drums than discs. Thus the cost differential, and why many manufacturers still put drum brakes on the rear wheels.

  • beanboybeanboy Posts: 442
    My brother checked out the 6 last night, rising quickly to the top on his list of cars to purchase within the year. Hopefully we'll head to the dealer in a couple of weeks when the manual models arrive.

    Mazda finally seems to be making the right move into the niche they will do well in which started with the Miata way back when. Reasonablly priced vehicles that look good, handle well and have decent power. Really have no competition at the moment, which is sad in a way.

    -B
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    is that your last bit of ammo?
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    ... but I really can't believe the author of that article says,

    "Disk brakes wear longer, are less affected by water, are self adjusting, self cleaning, less prone to grabbing or pulling and stop better than any other system around."

    My experience has shown that in the rear, drum brakes have always outlasted discs. Also, drum brakes are enclosed whereas discs are wide open, and one good douse of cold water from a hose on your wheels when you don't wait long enough after driving your car to wash it and you've got warped disc rotors. Ever seen your hot discs release a nice cloud of steam when you hit a puddle in a parking lot? (If you haven't, you haven't been driving long enough or you don't pay very good attention to your car.) Disc brakes are FAR more susceptible to water because they're wide open to it! Also -- drum brakes are self-adjusting too. And while disc brakes may be "self-cleaning," they do so by cleaning themselves all over your wheels and tires!

    Again, I agree that discs are better ... but I don't swear at the rear drums on my 2000 ES every time I step on the brakes. My brakes work very well.

    Meade
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    try driving a car with 4 wheel drum brakes...you will quickly change your mind.

    I had a '71 Land Cruiser with drums all around. After driving through puddles about the only thing that would stop it was a downshift. Down long hills the brakes would fade and again you were faced again with using the engine to slow the pig.

    Yes, drums work fine in the Pro, but discs are clearly superior.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    But thanks for playing.
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    I say they work fine...if you drive 70 and mild mannered.

    If you drive like me, they are not ok. Try that 100-0 panic stop and you'll realize. I guarantee it.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    So drums are fine if you obey the law (or at least come close)!

    OK!

    Funny, I don't feel I'll ever need to panic stop from 100 in an economy car ...

    Meade

    P.S. "70 and mild-mannered?" The top speed limit in my state is 65, so I guess we're all mild-mannered here in Virginia.
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    Gentlemen, please proceed to your corners and wait for the bell to ring for the next round.

    c'mon.......
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    So drums are fine if you obey the law (or at least come close)!

    Call me a law-breaker I guess...
  • mazdafunmazdafun Posts: 2,322
    I think they mean the braking effectiveness is less affected by water being splashed on them. Water gets spun off discs as they spin. Water gets trapped against the braking surface in a drum. Apparently Malt's experienced this first-hand. I've had the luck to not have driven such a beast in wet conditions.

    But for the standard Protege/P5, a front disc/rear drum arrangement is fine. Still, I wouldn't turn down rear discs either (they're just easier to change pads for me...I hated changing the shoes on the rear drums on my 323...probably take mine to the dealer to change the rear drums ).

    Now for anything that just invites spirited driving (and braking), I think rear discs are better.
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    that I was referring to.

    any one wants to take a shot at it?
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    I am with you. Show me one person who drives on the Capital Beltway and obeys the 55mph speed limit. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! :)

    I have had both front disc/rear drum, and 4disc. I like the 4disc better for the pedal feel like I said before.

    And my mother's 94 Bonneville needed work on its rear drum brakes. Granted, it was cheaper than the disc brake work. But it was still needed, at around 100K miles.
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