Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Toyota Tundra Problems

1131416181960

Comments

  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    What is up AK? First you say you want to race and now you do not respond. That is very...
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Posts: 1,352
    I know the feeling...........from you.

    Forged piston question comes to mind

    Oil filter drain back valve and "dry starts" is another.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    So what is your point? I make mistakes. Yes I do. Do you have a problem with that? I still have a modded car that I did. I still race at the track roughly once a month.

    It is still correct that if you do not have a good oil filter with a good anti-drian back valve in it, you might have more start-up clatter. That is a factor in start-up clatter.

    It is also correct that forged pistons pistons Shrink more when cold than non-forged ones and that also has an impact on start-up clatter.

    Please prove me wrong or STFU.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Posts: 126
    Where is this raceway?? I said I am shipping the car in the summer. Like April or Mayish. I am not going to drive an M3 in Ice and Snow. I would be the fishtail king. I know we can do a few laps, but in racing would we even be in th same class?? Shoot me some weights, and HP ratings for your car. I have not dynoed my car yet but Active says it is in the 400 range. And you do have a turbo??? Just curious what kind you have. Pal's GST ran 440hp with a 20G and custom intercooler... Shoot me the info and we can set something up. Go to www.Activeautowerke.com to see what they can sdo.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Posts: 126
    Would I need to install a roll-cage??? Just curious.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    The car weighs around 2300 lbs and puts down 163 WHP. It does not have a turbo. We cannot dod door to door racing since this is a hotlapping event and not a racing event. There will be other events during march or april. I go to events approx once a month. Go here and look up their schedule, pick up an event and tell me you will be there and I will meet you http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html


    You do not need a roll cage, just a helmet.

  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    Mod maybe this proof is enough to convince you about cold weather and forged piston slap:


    Piston Slap

    Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.


    http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm

  • modvptnlmodvptnl Posts: 1,352
    My only questions to you in the past(that you conveniently ignored) is that you said the start up clatter was caused by an empty filter leaving the top end dry. I explained to you that a filter should not go dry(at least overnight) if it's a quality filter with a good drain back valve. I'm glad you acknowledge that now.

    You then posted the forged piston link( gotta laugh at the shrinking piston comment though) I simply asked if the toy had forged pistons.

    I did not attack you like your fellow toy brother did. I just simply want to know if the toy clatter in 60% of tundras is due to lack of oil upon start up or larger clearances for the pistons that forged units require. Basically you've given 2 reasons why there is cold start up noise. One reason shouldn't happen if you use a quality filter and the other wouldn't hold water if the motor doesn't use forged pistons. Please read the first two sentences of your link....Thank you.

    Pretty sure I also explained to you there are forged pistons out there that will allow .002-.003 piston to wall clearance which is near cast piston clearances. TRW makes 'em and I used them in a 5.0 build up. Guess what? NO CLATTER!!!

    I admit I get a kick at some of the comments made(not just by you). The disc vs drum comment about surface area and drums are better was a classic. I just was hoping you could explain your reasoning about clatter. A clatter which I don't feel should be accepted whether it be a toy GM or Ford.

    On a side note;
    I've killed cones in my Cobra and drag race it at the track quite a bit. After taking a ride in one of the Richard Petty stock cars around LVMS at "only" 160 I realized I'm no where near a race car driver. Anyone that thinks that NASCAR doesn't involve real driving should try that out sometime, it was a rush.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    All the talk about clatter is plain SPECULATION. no one knows why this happens. There are many theories out there.

    1. It can be caused by the oil filter. Anti-drainback valves ar not bullet proof. Oil will seep through the filter back into the oil pan over night. Why is that so hard to believe. Oil settles in the oil pan overnight. When you start the car the next day it is noisey until the oil circulates properly in all the moving parts.

    2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."

    3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."

    What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Posts: 1,352
    1. It can be caused by the oil filter. Anti-drainback valves ar not bullet proof. Oil will seep through the filter back into the oil pan over night. Why is that so hard to believe. Oil settles in the oil pan overnight. When you start the car the next day it is noisey until the oil circulates properly in all the moving parts.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Here's where I question you. The drain back valve may let the oil back into the filter but it will not all go into the pan, The filter will remain full.(unless it's mounted up side down) This may cause clatter (with Fram filters being notorious for cardboard valves). But a quality filter SHOULDN'T do it and if it does you should change it. My guess is if your motor still clatters after 1 or 2 Mobil 1 filters or K&N's or WIX it most likely is not the culprit.
    --------------------------------------------------

    2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."
    --------------------------------------------------
    I know that forged pistons expand at a greater rate and have larger initial clearances. Ford uses forged in their trucks and had a problem for a while before tightening up the tolerances.
    JUST BECAUSE A MOTOR RUNS FORGED INTERNALS THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT WILL HAVE COLD PISTON SLAP. Witness the '87-92 mustang GT's that had forged pistons. Does toy use forged pistons???
    I've said it before and will say it again; if a motor clatters because of loose forged pistons it means the tolerances aren't as tight as they could be and there is just that much less "cushion" before rebuild
    --------------------------------------------------

    3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."
    --------------------------------------------------
    Your point??? If a motor has piston knock on hyper pistons I would say that the tolerances are too loose.....see my theory above about longevity.
    --------------------------------------------------

    What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
    --------------------------------------------------

    Don't know.

    Epilogue;

    One of the few things I've EVER agreed with bama on is that a new engine should not clatter on start up. If it's a filter drain back problem; change filters. If it's loose piston tolerances, I feel the manufacturer should remedy it (early Ford 4.6/5.4)

    In your poll 40% did not clatter. Why???
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Posts: 126
    What you lose in Hp you will gain in weight. But I do have a Turbo. I don't think it will make a difference. You do have a weight advantage. I'll take a look and get back to ya. Will my motorcycle helmet(An ARAI) full-face be suffecient?? I might install better belts though.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    "In your poll 40% did not clatter. Why??? "

    Because 40% of the respondents to his poll actually owned Tundras?
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    The clatter is common due to the use of forged pistons. And I have read two articles by engine builders that say so. I suggest you read these.


    http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar129832.htm

    http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm


    Here is a direct quote from the second article:

    Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.

    Now about the poll. I think those who report no clatter either live in warmer climates or start their trucks in warm garages. In my truck, I only started hearing the three distinct taps on start-up when the weather became colder in SoCal. I voted in the poll that my truck had no star-up clatter, but now it does due to colder weather. I suspect the same is happening with other truck owners. Moreover, i mostly hear mine when I start the truck with the door open. With the door shut I hear nothing.

  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    Just curious - How many of the people who responded to your poll actually own Tundras?
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    "The clatter is common due to the use of forged pistons."

    It is too bad that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Nice theory anyway. I suggest you resume posting when you know what you are talking about. Have a nice day.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    please show me a link to prove that the Tundra has cast pistons. I am not taking your word for it. This is the Internet and a lot of stuff is said w/o proof.

    As for the poll, I explained to you in details the shortcoming of internet polling. There is no need to repeat that again.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    "This is the Internet and a lot of stuff is said w/o proof."

    Oh - Do you mean your claim that the Tundra has forged pistons? LMAO!
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Posts: 235
    Fine, prove me wrong? Show me that the Tundra does NOT have forged pistons.
    You believe in evidence, right? I could be wrong, but so could you.
    Why is your claim w/o proof more legitimate than mine?
    Please find evidence that the Tundra has Cast alloy pistons.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Posts: 1,352
    Why so stubborn??? I've read your links and AGREE for the most part(not on the longevity part, however). Have you read it???? Please note the first two sentences. Thank you, drive through.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Posts: 1,583
    Ndahl:

    "Fine, prove me wrong? Show me that the Tundra does NOT have forged pistons."

    You are making some sweeping claims about Tundras and engine knock. You are attributing it to non-existent forged pistons. When you can back up what you post with fact, do so. It will greatly help your credibility.

    You are even posting in GM topics claiming to be an expert there. Heck, you don't even know what type pistons Tundras have - a truck you claim to own. You need to get your act together.
This discussion has been closed.