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Jaguar XJ-Series



  • I know that you are no troll, but do tell us more about how one can:

    1) early on in a lease, cancel the lease and then purchase the car,

    2) after you finesse the leasor, get your Jag dealer to, ostensibly, give you no charge the Select Edition warranty when you purchase the car. (I realize that you didn't say "no charge" but it sure reads that way.)

    Does the institution that wrote the lease (e.g., Chase) know that they are going get back a used car after only "a few months" of payments? What are THEY going to do with it?

    Finally, not to rain on euphonium's parade, while a new '05 for 67K is nice, a used '05 for 62K is a lot nicer. Please realize that this car is now one year old (regardless of miles). Used '05s with the Select Edition warranty (which is longer than Fenn's new '05 warranty) go for well under 67K. This lobsterman would rather spend 62K for a used '05 XKR and get a longer warranty than spend 67K for a new, one year old car with a shorter warranty. (We won't even go into the higher sales tax, higher excise tax, higher insurance costs for the car with the significantly shorter warranty.)

    This whole deal would have been a lot better if they gave you a good discount on this year's model not last year's model.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,320
    I agree with your opinion of having a better guarantee on a previously owned Jag, but maybe he values automobile virginity more.

    Being from the West side of the Cascades I don't mind a little rain any time.

    Wishing you and All a Merry Christmas!

    Euphonium :)
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    I will respond to the questions raised by blckislandguy.

    It seems that there may have been some confusion about my situation. I described my problems in earlier posts. Let if suffice to say that I am trying to get out of an XJR lemon, with 91 days of shop time and 34 total service visits. I have been fighting with them and negotiating for some relief. Jaguar offered me a rebate credit on my lease due to the problems, to be applied to a new lease/purchase.

    Jaguar and the dealer offered me a new '05 with navigation and front park control for under invoice, plus I got about 7000 in incentives on the '05. They dealer takes my current 52,000 mile "lemon" back for $40,000, while the residual is currently about 45,000. It looks like I am taking a bath, but I am getting back $3000, and I am avoiding the cost of new tires and brakes, which are now needed. I am also out of the warranty, so I am at risk with this car. Can you see how the numbers work ???

    Meanwhile, I want to avoid another situation with a high mileage car and a lease. The Select Edition warranty is one of the best, but you can only get it on a used certified or lease buy-out. You can lease a car through Jaguar Credit and elect to purchase the car at any time during the lease period. You can also purchase the Select Edition warranty for about $2500. The important fact is that you cannot buy the select edition warranty on a new car. To the best of my knowledge, it only works on a lease conversion, lease return, or dealer-sold used Jaguar.

    By the way, I never said that the Select Edition 100,000 warranty was a freebie. It is also a part of the cost when buying a used Jaguar. In many cases the Select Edition is an option, and is not included in the advertised prices of late model Jaguars. FYI, I visited or called several dealers inquiring about Select Edition cars, and most quoted the Select Edition warranty as an extra cost option.

    By the way, my rationale for taking the car from lease to purchase is directly targeted at obtaining a Jaguar 100,000 warranty for a high mileage car. At an average annual 23,000 miles in a Jaguar, the factory warranty is gone well before the lease term. As my current experience has shown, having an XJR without warranty coverage can be dangerous and costly.

    I disagree that buying a used certified car for $60,000 or more is a more sensible choice than buying a fresh new car for $66,000. For me, it makes more sense to have a brand new car vs certified used Jaguar with 15,000 miles or more. By the way, I just looked at a used '05 with 18,000 with an asking price of 62,900. I am aware that this price may be negotiable, but how can this be sensible compared to a new one for less than $4000 more??

    After my experience I cannot see taking on somebody else's used Jaguar for a few thousand less as a sensible decision. I know that a powerful rocket like an XJR can be driven pretty damn hard by a lessee, so you might be inheriting somebody else's lemon---even if it does have a warranty. Granted, I need to add in another $2500 for a Select Edition, but this is still worthwhile in my own mind.

    FYI, a new '06 with a window of over 80,000 had no rebates, and even with the dealer cutting a sharp deal, it would cost about 76,000 at this time of the year when the '06 XJR are just coming in. The '05 at $66,300 seems like a deal to me.

    Taxes and insurance differences are not really that different on either one.

    This may not make sense for anyone else, but it works for me as a high mileage driver.

    Furthermore, after having had an XJR that had its differential, drive line, subframe, rack and pinion, etc replaced I feel better breaking in a new one rather than taking pot luck on a used one.

    By the way, I picked up my new car today, It is really nice. Meanwhile, the automatic door locks on my '04 were randomly clicking on and off, as I drove it to the dealer. The funny thing is that it is likely that my lemon will be cleaned up and sold as a Select Edition Jaguar---they actually can certify and resell late model Jaguars with under 54,000 miles. Imagine the lucky person that gets my old car!
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,320
    Automobile Virginity has it's virture. I applaud your decision. :)
  • Thanks for your thoughts. I hope you enjoy your purchase.

    I didn't realize that the Jag Certified lease was so malleable in how it is purchased. I'm surprised that Jag dealers offer it as an extra cost OPTION on a used vehicle. This makes it simply a gloried extended warranty. Not a select, choice, used vehicle with a good provence. My impression is that with BMW the car is certified (at a cost of $900 to the dealer PLUS all repairs he makes) or not before it is offerred for sale. As such it is either fish or fowl. (The BMWUSA web site I think only lists CPO cars.) This is a much purer and better way. IMHO Jag would have a stronger brand if it CPOed cars like BMW. But then again, Jag could do a lot of things better.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    I do not mean to say that they will just sell the warranty without going through the vehicle. Any Select Edition car needs to be inspected. However, if I do this while the car is under original warranty, the costs of any needed, or suggested repairs etc will likely be done as a warranty item, and/or the cost will be a part of the fee charged.

    I also did not mean to suggest that just any car will be a part of the program. My own approach may be a strategy that was suggested due to my history and relationship with the dealer. I doubt that many folks are guided in this direction, but most folks do not drive as many miles as I do

    Contrary to your thoughts, Jaguar's Select Edition has been rated as the top resale/CPO program by more than one source. As a matter of fact, Intellichoice rated Jaguar as the top program, and BMW's CPO program was not even listed in the top five luxury programs, but Jaguar, Lexus, Audi, Cadillac and Volvo were.. Go figure..?

    I will say that my new '05 XJR is a seemingly flawless car within the first 400 miles of use. I have not found anything to complain about. My '04 had some trim issues and fit and finish glitches that were obvious by comparison, along with some malfunctioning systems.

    Proof again, that the first model year of an all new car should be avoided... until they get the kinks out.
  • Good to hear that your new XJR is proving to be OK.

    My comments about the Jag CPO program were aimed at the apparently descetionary nature of it: "Mr. Customer, would you like us to CPO this car and add it to the invoice or do you want it as is?" I believe that BMW doesn't offer it up that way. BMWs are either CPOed or they are not (and those that are not are usually wholesaled off the lot). My comment doesn't really denigrate the Jag CPO program as much as denigrate the Jag marketing people. I think they would have a stronger brand if the CPO was presented less as an extended warranty. I agree though that the Jag and Volvo 100,000 mile CPO warrantys are compelling.
  • Just a note of well wishes to all who appreciate the special relationship we have with our Jaguar motorcars.

    I must confess I have never owned an automobile, American or European, that I have enjoyed driving more. From the very first view of the Jaguar sensuous lines and classically stylish design, I anticipate the pleasurable Jaguar driving experience. While I agree that the "cats" need special pampering, it is well worth it. "Lemons" can be found in all brands. There is no substitute for good and regular preventative maintance ...... good medicine for any brand. It is amazing what a good, competent mechanic and friend can be in positively supporting the Jaguar experience.

    Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn driving my XJ Jaguar is a pure delight.

    So, I wish you all a wonderful and great "Jaguar Year"... full of good safe and pleasurable motoring in what I still believe is a great Jaguar motorcar experience... truly, unlike any other !

  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,320
    shown on page 16,"Automobile" February '06. 2009 is the proposed intro date. This new model is to answer the recent poor sales history. Bringing out a new design does, IMO, not correct their marketing strategy and problems. :(
  • I'm being offered a 57,000 mile '93 XJ6 in excellent condition for $1300. Owner claims the cylinder head gasket is blown.

    1. I'm reasonably skilled and have done several cylinder heads (ohc) in the past - any guess on how much time it will take to R&R the cylinder head?

    2. I know these warp.... are they known to crack? Where?

    3. Any other precautions or advice?
  • I'm an ex ford service representative - first of all, if you bought the car new or under new-car warranty it likely qualifies under your state's lemon law.

    Even if doesn't, Ford is incredibly litigation-averse, and a simple letter to the company president (Edsel Ford) from any attorney will guarantee prompt action and intervention.

    Good luck!
  • BAH! I can't believe I typed EDSEL Ford....

    William Clay is the company president of course. Freudian Slip I suppose.
  • klmsklms Posts: 1
    I was driving and my sunroof opened by itself. I was able to close it with the button but now it doesnt work.
    I guess I have 3 options..the motor, the switch or the module. Anyone have problems like this?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Fenn - I wanted to follow up on your new '05 XJR . . . what a great deal! I hope you are having better luck with it. I think you made an excellent purchase and a fantastic deal that will not be possible ever again! I absolutely love the Jaguar XJ Series, and believe they represent some of the most gorgeous, elegant and luxurious cars ever built. Maybe not always as reliable as we would like, but they've got something special about them that words cannot describe. They are true classics. Keep me posted.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    Thanks for the interest...

    I am pleased to report that the new '05 is flawless. Not one problem to report after almost 3000 miles. The car is very nice. Fit and finish is perfect, and there are no rattles, clunks, or error messages.

    By comparison, I had issues from the start with the '04. The interior leather trim and trunk liner were sloppy on the day it was delivered, and the error messages on the cruise and airbags started within the first week...It only got worse from there too!

    This experience just points out the pitfalls of buying a newly introduced car in the early months of production. In the nineteen months that passed between the time that my first '04 came down the assembly line and the time that the '05 was assembled, they obviously got the kinks out of the build process, and they remedied the problems and gremlins.

    That said, I am now once again converted to a loving Jaguar owner, My XJR is quick, comfy and classy. It also gets great mileage for a big sedan that goes from 0-60 in 5 seconds. These are great cars.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    That said, I am now once again converted to a loving Jaguar owner, My XJR is quick, comfy and classy. It also gets great mileage for a big sedan that goes from 0-60 in 5 seconds. These are great cars.

    fenn - That's just terrific! When I consider all you were able to forgive, just so that you can love your Jaguar again, it is quite a testimony to the magic of Jaguar. Few cars in the world have ever had so much mystique.
  • fennfenn Posts: 197
    It is a very, very nice car, although I am not quite so enamored as to call it "magic" yet. However, it is very quick, nice, and classy.

    To tell you the truth, after all of my problems, I really wanted to find something else. I figured that I would start over, and chalk it up to experience. I shopped around, and looked at several other cars. I mainly focused on getting an A-8 or BMW 750. However, after driving the A-8, 750, and Mercedes offerings in the same price range as the XJR, I would get back into my lemon '04 and feel how quick and responsive it felt. I was having mixed feelings.

    The comparision with other cars in the $70k plus range made me realize how quick and light the XJR felt, but since mine was an unreliable mess I never thought I would do it again. Needless to say, I was really happy that Jaguar and my dealer came around to try and save the day. 

    That said, I have to say that the interior and quality of materials and execution on the Audi A8 is the best I have seen, but the A8 is a heavier, less responsive car.  The loaded and supercharged XJR is the pretty much in the same price range as the relatively basic versions of the BMW, Audi and Mercedes, and it yet it is much quicker...It feels like a quick sled by comparison. The gas mileage is better too. The Jaguar is really responsive and lithe in its feel.

    Meanwhile, in a basic XJ8, you can still get many of these attributes, they are just a little less visceral feeling than the XJR when you push your foot down on the accelerator.

    Sorry for the rambling response....but I think that you can sense that I like my new Jaguar much better than the old one!!
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,320
    "Jaguar and my dealer came around to try and save the day."

    Hopefully, after all you endured with your 04, Jaguar accepted full responsibility for their Lemon and made you an offer you couldn't reject.

    That would be the only reason for rewarding a car company with another purchase considering the process they put you through on the 04.

    I wish you smooth roads, quiet travels, and trouble free miles for the next decade.
  • ck8rck8r Posts: 4
    Hi there. I just got a 1999 Jaguar Van Den Plas from a nearby dealer auction and found the following codes.

    P1384 Engine Misfire (Twice)
    P1396 Engine Misfire (Twice)
    P1000 Fuel Air Metering Emission Control

    I'm not too sure what all these things mean in concert, but perhaps there may be someone who may be able to unravel this puzzle. In the meantime, I have to say that it is by far the most comfortable highway cruiser and driving environment I've ever experienced. Right now I have a 96 MB Diesel, a 99 Passat, a 97 A4 Quattro, and the Jag. It's the second one I've had (other one was an XJ6L) and I hope it becomes a long term keeper.

  • Pete,
    Yes all modern cars that are imported must comply with CA emmissions standards. And yes, I have had dealings with Silvey Motor Company better known as Jagaur of Austin or . These guys take the off lease cars direct from Jaguar off lease program, and sell them all over the world. I know this because when I was there, a truck took one of them away to be put on a boat going overseas (I saw the itenerary). This is where most pre-owned European cars come from, but they WILL show you the inspection reports from Jaguar, or BMW or Mercedes or wherever. Lots of these cars are in excellent shape, but some are old wrecks, or ex-rental cars that are thrashed or whatever. Texas cars direct, or now WILL NOT show you these reports, they claim they don't even exist!! I'VE SEEN THEM!!!! They take the dogs from the auction, and slick them up in their body shop and dump them- what you see is what you get- fresh paint and bondo. I had one of these Dallas Dumpsters, and found out it was previously wrecked (carfax didn't report it) but it was cheap- at first. Then the electricial problems started because of pinched wires. Trade in was horrible because the other dealers could tell it had been wrecked.
    The people at Silvey Motors are HONEST.
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